Tom Campbell: Nature Of Reality, Beating Fear & The Meaning Of Life

Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

Guy:  This week welcome to the show Tom Campbell.  He has been focused on scientifically exploring the properties, boundaries, and abilities of consciousness for the past forty years. His books, videos and workshops have reached millions of people around the world and have changed lives and opened eyes to a new way of thinking about reality: a new way of understanding physics, and a new way of understanding who, what and why we are.

The MBT trilogy combines his work as a large complex systems analyst and as an explorer of the large complex system we call reality to conclude that LOVE is the fabric of our reality.
Tom’s statement “If it is not your experience, it is not your truth” highlights the message that he wishes to impart, encouraging everyone to engage with their own experiences, to learn and to evolve.
Use Snapchat? Follow me at: GuyL180 or Click Here. 

Audio Version

Questions we ask in this episode:

Get More Of Tom Campbell

• https://www.my-big-toe.com/

If you enjoyed this, then you’ll enjoy these interviews with:

• Bruce Lipton: At Last, Scientific Proof of How Our Thoughts Can Make Us Healthy or Sick
• Joe Dispenza: Discover The SINGLE REASON Why Your (Diet, Goals, Desires etc.) Are Prone To Failure
• Jeffrey Fannin: How the Law of Attraction Works; The Scientific Explanation

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Full Transcript

Guy
Hello. Good evening. Good morning. Wherever you are in the world. I am, of course, Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition, and welcome to another episode of the Health Sessions, where we are constantly connecting with leading global health and wellness experts to bring the best and the latest science and thinking so empowering us all that we can turn our health and lives around. This week, we have an exceptional guest for you and his name is Tom Campbell.
[00:00:30]
[00:01:00] I will have to say, with this episode, I wasn’t sure where it was going to go. Tom is a physicist. He’s worked for NASA, he’s worked for the Department of Defense, and he’s also studied consciousness for 40 years as a side project as well. The scope of the conversation could have gone anywhere, really. I thought Tom was brilliant. It reminded me very much of the Bruce Lipton interview, which, for me, was one of the personal highlights of podcasting over the four years. If you had asked me four years ago if we was going to get to interview a nuclear physicist on our podcast, I would have said you were crazy. It has happened and it’s happened today. When you get to sit down with someone like Tom, for me, there was just so much experience, so much wisdom there and knowledge, but not only that, a very big, open-hearted guy. Just fantastic and he just wants to share what he’s learned with the world. It’s as simple as that.
[00:02:00] We get into all sorts of topics today. I will say, this episode was one of two halves, if you like. The first half is quite technical, but stay with it because it has a lot of meaning and the second half, we then start to get into talking about fear, why do we work from a fear-based response quite often, and then from that, how do we resolve that problem. Then going into what is actually our purpose as humans being here and what does it all mean, anyway? It gets quite deep. It’s conversations we hadn’t had on the podcast before and I must admit, I loved every minute of it. It’s something I’m going to listen to a few times to really absorb what Tom was sharing about it and I’m confident you’re going to get lots out of it.
[00:02:30] Now, I want to say, Tom Campbell is actually coming to Sydney, Australia in March 2017, so this is pretty rare. He’s coming for a two-day lecture. We do get into the topic of it on the podcast, so if you enjoy the podcast, this is probably the only ever opportunity you’ll get to come and meet him in person, and hang out, and basically spitball with him, and ask him as many questions as you possibly can. I’m definitely going. I’m taking a few friends with me as well, so we’re going to be there all weekend. That’s March the 11th and 12th, 2017 in Sydney.
[00:03:00]
[00:03:30] Now, I’ve been speaking to the event organizers and they’ve kindly given us a substantial discount code for this event as well for all of the 180 podcast listeners. There will be links, so the best way to go about it, if you enjoy the podcast and you want to come to see Tom live as well, all you will have to do is come back to our website, 180nutrition.com.au, go to the search field on the homepage, and type Tom Campbell in. That’s going to take you to this episode, this podcast, and there will be a link to the event and there will be a discount code there, as well, called GL250. It’s March the 11th and 12th, 2017. Nothing would please me more is to come and meet fellow podcast listeners of the show, so make sure you check that out.
Let’s get on to Tom Campbell. Please let me know what you think. Drop us a line somehow. You can reach me through the website, Snapchat, Instagram, and see where this goes. I don’t know whether it’s just me, but I absolutely loved it. Enjoy.
[00:04:30] I’ll just speak for Stu quickly. I do feel for him because I’ve been looking at your work. I’ve been following Bruce Lipton for a while and that, and I’ve kind of just dropped it in on Stu this last week and said mate, we’ve got Tom Campbell coming on the show. He’s worked for NASA, he’s a physicist. We often joke as well because I’m very right brain and Stu’s very left brain, hence make the whole brain for our 180 …
Tom
[00:05:00] Stuart, you just fell into the middle of something that is hard to grasp in the short term, so hopefully … Just ask the questions you have and we’ll try to fill it in. I can tell you that it actually does make sense even if it doesn’t sound like it. If you go back and actually look at the derivations, the logical derivations … Just skim over it like we’re going to do today, it’s going to have a lot of logical holes in it because you just can’t fill that in in an hour.
Stu
Absolutely. Absolutely. I look forward to getting stuck in because we’ve got some great questions that I’m really intrigued as to how you answer them. Looking forward to it.
Tom
Okay.
Guy
Yeah.

Tom
[00:05:30] Ask anything you want. You don’t have to stick to the script. Just whatever it is you want to ask, whenever you want to ask it, just do it, and we’ll just go from there so there’s nothing really off the table. Anything you want to say or … Hard questions are welcome as well as easy questions.
Stu
Okay.
Tom
Have at it. Whatever works for you.
Stu
Absolutely.

Guy
[00:06:00] Brilliant. I love it. Look, I’ve actually started recording. I reckon let’s just keep going because even that little bit of content’s going to be so valuable for people. Tom, welcome to the show and there’s one question we always ask at the beginning of every show, and I’m itching to see what your answer to this today. That is, if, let’s say you were on an airplane and you sat next to a complete stranger and they asked you what you did for a living, what would you say?
Tom
[00:06:30] I would probably just say that one of two things. Depending on how interested they really seem to be or whether or not they were just making small talk and being polite, I might say either I’m retired, which then, of course, kind of ends that subject, if they’re just being polite. Or, I would say I’m a physicist. I would wait to see how they responded to that. If they go oh, okay, and then turned around and looked the other direction, which a lot of people do when you tell them you’re a physicist. Then they might say well, what are you doing now and I would tell them well, I’ve written some books and I’m very busy keeping up with all the things that that has created.
Guy
Yeah.
Tom
[00:07:30]
That would be the short discussion. If they were physicists themselves and interested, I would add to it and I’ve just published a set of physics experiments that will show … We, in science, don’t do proof, but it will give very strong evidence for the fact that we’re living in a virtual reality and that the way that virtual reality works is the way that I have discussed it in my videos and books. That’s kind of on the science run, that’s the exciting thing. There’s a whole bunch of experiments out there that if they do them, and if they work the way I say, we’ll have some pretty direct evidence that says this is a virtual reality and here’s how it works.
Guy
Incredible.
Tom
That’s the fun part. I wouldn’t start that if the guy was just being polite. That wouldn’t be kind of me.
Guy
Yeah, fair enough, mate. Fair enough. Look, I’m fully aware, as well, before we even get into those topics because like I was saying with Stu, we’ve never had a physicist on the show before. I think it’s going to be awesome to delve into some of these topics and even just bring people aware to it for the first time, and different things, and then hopefully how that can relate into our actual daily lives as well. Can you share a little bit about your story as well, Tom, because I’m aware you’ve worked for NASA. What would you have done at NASA and in the Department of Defense, if I’m not mistaken, is that correct?
Tom
[00:09:00] Sure. I’ve worked for contractors that had contracts with the Department of Defense. I started out in technical intelligence. My first job out of graduate school was technical intelligence, so that was a DOD job for the army. Then I went on to work for contractors that had contracts with what became known as Star Wars, but in the early days it was just missile defense, is what it was called for … It went through, actually three or four names, but now it’s just missile defense, as well, and that’s the simplest name for it. Yeah, I spent a lot of time in the area of doing simulations.
[00:09:30]
[00:10:00] That’s pretty much what physicists end up doing if they’re not in academia. They end up simulating reality because that’s efficient. It may take a lot of money to go out and build a thing, but if you can simulate it first, you can work out an awful lot of the problems and a lot of the issues in that simulation for a thousandth of the cost than if you just build it and then find out what’s wrong with it. We physicists come in handy for creating those simulations because what we do as physicists is we model reality. We have the basic understanding of how reality works and we understand that within a mathematical context, so that allows us to make mathematical models of things. That’s what I’ve done mostly my career.
[00:11:00] Now, you asked about what would a guy like me do in NASA? I made models there too, but the models I made were models that indicated what could go wrong. They were vulnerability models, they were also risk models. NASA has very, very big program. This was for the manned programs and, as you can imagine, there’s thousands of vendors all making parts that all go together into a hugely complex machine, and the question that my bosses wanted to know is what could go wrong, and if it does go wrong, what could we do about it? In other words, where were the weak points, where were the things that might fail, and where would those failures … How that chain of events would take place. It’s a very complicated problem when you have a big system because some little, five dollar part might fail, which would cause something else to fail, which would cause something else to fail, and so on, and you may be 10 levels down that chain of failure logic before the whole thing blows up, you see. It all goes back to … We had one of those, right, it all went back to an O-ring. We had one of the shuttles because an O-ring wasn’t warm enough.
[00:11:30] That’s the kind of thing I did and my expertise was in large system analysis. If you have big systems, which is pretty much what I did for missile defense too. Large system analysis to say what could go wrong, where are your weak points, what are the things you need to really pay attention to, and you get those right and make sure you have back-up for those, and here’s why. That’s what I’ve done for most of my life.
Guy
Your attention to detail must be incredible, yeah.
Tom
[00:12:30] These are big software programs. When I make a program, it’s something that takes maybe a year or two years to just develop the models. It takes a long time to do it. It’s not something that I can do in weeks, it’s something that you do in years. My last half of my career, I worked as a consultant because I was well enough known in the business that people would come and ask me to do work for them. A consultant’s nice because you work on your own time, and you don’t have to attend those staff meetings, and get involved in the politics. You can stay down and work where the fun is. That’s a lot better.

Guy
[00:13:00] You know, Tom, I know you’ve got to ask questions, Stu, but it just made me think … I watched a documentary only the other week, Particle Fever, about the Higgs experiment. You’re talking about simulating something of the thousandth of the cost, and that documentary just blew my mind. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, Stu, but they must have spent …
Stu
I have.
Guy
It must have been hundreds of millions of dollars to spin two particles around in this machine.
Stu
Yes, split the atom, wasn’t it?
Guy
Yeah. Have you seen that, Tom?
Tom
I haven’t that particular documentary, but I’m pretty familiar with the system and how it works, yes. Costs billions of dollars to spin those particles around.
Guy
[00:13:30] Billions. Amazing. Seeing all the physicists get very excited about what the data was going to come back and tell them. I think they didn’t have the answer, did they, from what I could understand?
Tom
They will probably never have the answer for very long. If you get one answer, that just opens up another question.
Guy
Right.

Tom
[00:14:30] That really has no end. That just keeps going. We haven’t hit bottom yet as far as … We started off probably 150 years ago calling things like electrons and nuclei elementary particles. What we meant by elementary particles was that they couldn’t be subdivided. They were just small and they were a piece all in of themselves. Of course, all of them have been broken into dozens of pieces by now and we still call the littlest thing that we have measured, we still them elementary particles, but no doubt they will be broken into pieces as well. That’s because this is a virtual reality and until you get down to the pixel level in the reality, you’re going to break things into pieces. Once you hit a pixel level, you can’t break it apart anymore and that’s where you’ll get your elementary particles. We’ve got a long way to go before we get down to the pixel level of our reality frame.
Stu
[00:15:00] On that, Tom, you mentioned earlier as well about virtual reality. We’re essentially living in virtual reality. Now, just to put this in context, I’ve got three young daughters. The eldest is 11 and she is very interested in technology, and science, and physics. How could I explain to her what you meant when you said we’re essentially living in virtual reality? So she’s 11, what would you say to her?
Tom
Does she ever play any video games?
Stu
She likes Minecraft.
Tom
That’s a virtual reality. When you’re in Minecraft, you’re in a virtual reality and you build things, and those things have consequences, and there’s things to avoid, and things to do, and you’re in another reality frame. Okay, so let’s just work with that analogy. What’s a typical character in Minecraft? What would you be? I haven’t a lot of experience there. Are you a robot or a person, or what?
Stu
I haven’t huge amounts of experience, but I think you’re just a regular person and you build things. You run around a virtual world and you build things out of blocks.
Tom
Okay, so let’s talk about this person then. This person that you play, the person that actually does things in this simulation is called the avatar.
Stu
Yes.
Tom
You, the player, are that avatar’s consciousness.
Stu
Right.
Tom
Your avatar can’t do anything unless you send it instructions to do that. It just stands there and maybe wobbles, but doesn’t actually do anything unless you, the consciousness, give it instructions.
Stu
Right. Yes.
Tom
[00:17:30] Now, you give it instructions by sending data to a computer, which is the server that creates that game, that serves that game. That server then modifies what you see on the screen and all the consequences of what you do. If you tell it to stand up, and the computer will make it stand up, but if the ceiling is too low, it will stand up and bang its head, that’s a consequence of standing up. It implements your instructions and computes all the consequences. If it’s a multiplayer game, then you interact with other people and it does the same thing. Now, that’s all really we need to know about virtual reality. Here are the things that are important and they are attributes of any virtual reality, not just this one, but any virtual reality including the one we live in, have these attributes.
[00:18:00] One, you, the consciousness, are not in the same reality as your avatar. From your avatar’s point of view, you are nonphysical. From your avatar’s point of view, that Minecraft world of boxy, building parts is physical, right? But you, the consciousness are not. Not only that, but you, the consciousness, and the server, the computer, have to be in the same reality frame because you are constantly talking with each other.
Guy
Yes.
Stu
Right.
Tom
Okay.
Stu
Yeah, makes sense.
Tom
[00:19:00] Okay. All virtual realities work that way. It’s not just this virtual reality, but that’s the nature of virtual reality. To have virtual reality, you have to have a player, otherwise there’s no point in the virtual reality. The player can never be inside the virtual reality. It always has to be nonphysical to the virtual reality. The player must always be in the same reality frame as the computer. What’s going on is that the player makes decisions for the avatar, sends data to the computer, computer basically changes what’s on the player’s screen. The computer sends the player a data stream. That data stream ends up on their computer monitor as a bunch of pixels. There’s a million pixels, say, and every one of them has just a couple of values. One of them is intensity, another one is color.

Stu
Right.
Tom
[00:20:00] Okay? And that’s it. Now, the consciousness gets that data. They look at all those pixels, they look at all those little dots of light, and they interpret it as the reality that their avatar is in. You see? We just have a data being shared between the player, the consciousness, and the computer. The computer is sending the player a data stream, the player interprets that data stream in terms of the virtual reality that he’s looking at. Now, our reality works exactly like that, so what does that say about us, which is what I’m supposed to explain to your daughter. What that means is that if we are living in a virtual reality, and I start with an if. If we are living in a virtual reality, and science today is coming around to that conclusion that we are, and that’s not because it’s a new fad idea. It’s because their experiments have drug them, kicking and screaming, to that conclusion because there is no other answer. It’s just the way the world seems to work.
[00:20:30] Ten years ago, being a supporter of a virtual reality scheme here would have made you way out on the edge of the fringe and a little crazy. Whereas today, that’s pretty mainstream. Probably 30, 40%o all the physicists around that stay current think it’s a really good idea because that’s what the experiments are saying.
Stu
Wow.
Guy
Amazing.
Tom
[00:21:30] If it’s a virtual reality, which it seems like it is, then there’s a few things that we can come to conclusions to. One is that our body is an avatar. A bunch of ones and zeroes in a server somewhere. That’s all. That we receive a data stream of information to us. We’re the consciousness, we’re the player, to us. We get that data and we interpret it as this physical-looking reality, this virtual reality. We make all the choices. We, the consciousness, are the choice maker for the avatar. We’re in this game. That’s basically how it works.
[00:22:30] Now we’ve said that consciousness is nonphysical, can’t be physical, can’t be a product of the brain, can’t be something that is inside the virtual reality, it has to be outside the virtual reality, and so is the computer. Since those two are both in the same reality, let’s postulate a larger consciousness system that is a digital information system. We, the player, are just a piece of that larger consciousness system. Another piece is the computer. The computer and the player are both subsets of this digital information system we call consciousness. We are communicating with each other back and forth. The computer sends us a data stream, we interpret that as this virtual reality, so there’s a couple other questions that your daughter might ask, then, at that point. It’s like well … Excuse me, I’ve got a thing going here that I’ve got to stop.
Guy
That’s all right, Tom. I’ll get Stu to talk it back to me.
Tom
Okay, yeah, so there’s a couple other questions your daughter might ask. That is, well, if it’s like that, why? Where did it come from? Who’s the programmer, right?
Stu
Yes.
Tom
[00:23:30] We know who the programmer is in the Minecraft. We can look that up. The answer to that is there is no programmer. This virtual reality has evolved. The way you evolve a virtual reality is you start with a rule set, and that rule set is what we call our physics, our science. You start with a rule set, and it should be elegant, it should be just a small collection of high-level rules. You start with initial conditions, like maybe a very high-temperature, high-pressure ball of plasma, with a rule set that has things like gravity, and force, and other things defined in it. Then you push the run button and you let that run. That ball of plasma expands and it starts to form into suns, and planets, whatever. Now we all know that as the big bang, right? It’s the big digital bang.
[00:24:30] It’s a simulation and it continues to evolve, and as it evolves, eventually you end up with a planet like ours, around a sun like ours with critters, and plants, and things like us in it. When that happens, the larger consciousness system is initially playing all the parts, right? It’s a simulation. The computer’s playing all the parts initially, but once it evolves creatures that have interesting choices for a player to play, then players start to log on and play those characters. Eventually, in time, players are playing all the characters there. It’s an interactive, multiplayer game.
The next question would be, what’s the point?
Guy
Yeah, okay.
Tom
[00:25:00] Okay, why has all this happened? What’s the point? All right, the point is, consciousness is an information system. How do information systems evolve? They evolve by lowering their entropy. Entropy is a measure of disorder. Let’s say you have maximum entropy. That means that all your bits in your information system are random. Maximum entropy. No order. As you create order, you create meaning, create something valuable. That creates information as opposed to just randomness. An information system evolves by lowering its entropy. Creating useful information.
[00:26:00] That system, just like any natural system, either evolves or de-evolves. If it de-evolves, it eventually dissipates into randomness and dies, if you will. That’s death to an information system, no information. To evolve, it has to keep putting effort into evolving. Otherwise, if it doesn’t do anything, it naturally will dissipate and de-evolve. It has to work at evolving. How does it do that? It has to come up with new ways of creating information. It had several big technology ah-ha moments that came up with regular time. Two cells and we have one and zero. It just goes one, zero, one, zero, one, zero, like a metronome, and there you’ve got a clock. Now, once you have regular time, you can sequence patterns as well as just make patterns?
[00:27:00] Another big invention was not being just one monolithic system breaking itself into pieces so that the pieces could interact with each other? That gave it a whole lot more things that it could do, interactions. A lot more novelty can be generated among independent things interacting with each other than just one thing by itself. Here we are, one of those independent things. We’re one of those pieces. That’s us, the player. One of those pieces. Now, the players need to evolve by lowering their entropy. All these pieces make up a social system because all they do is communicate. That’s what an information system does.
[00:27:30] The pieces now will communicate with each other and can interact with each other with free will, communicate with each other. They’re supposed to now grow up, which means lower their entropy. That’s a real hard thing to do. Imagine you’re in a chat room with a million other people and there’s no rules, you’re just passing information back and forth, okay? Not very instructive. There’s no consequences to any of that. Everybody just says whatever they feel like saying. Make it up, lie, truth, doesn’t matter, you know. There’s very few consequences. Very little traction as far as growing up goes and lowering your entropy.
[00:28:30] What do we need? We need a virtual reality with a rule set that creates consequences. In other words, a much tighter rule other than a big open chat game. A rule where you do things and interact, and there’s result for that. There’s choices to be made and that’s why the system needed to create this simulation that’s a virtual reality so that individuated units of consciousness would have an experience game, if you will. An entropy-reduction trainer in which to interact with each other with consequences, in a way to lower their entropy. Now, how do you lower entropy in this social system? If you look at any social system, you’ll see that the way you optimize a social system is through caring, cooperation, right? Working together about other, not just about self. I call that the love choice, if you will.
[00:29:30] The way you minimize, or reduce, or raise entropy in a social system is with fear. If you have fear then it’s all about you, and what you can get, and what you can keep. There’s little trust. Individuals will form up groups to help protect each other, but then those groups will end up fighting with each other and eventually, if you let that system based on fear go, you end up with something like we’ve got. You end up with a bunch of nation states that are all kind of struggling with each other, and 3% of the people have 90% of the ships, of the weapons, and so on. That’s a fear based paradigm. What are these individuated units of conscious supposed to learn in their virtual reality trainer? They’re supposed to learn how to interact positively. How to interact with caring, with love, with cooperation, with compassion because these are things that lower the entropy in a social situation and consciousness is a social situation.
[00:30:30] That’s it, in a real quick wrap of how all the logic runs together and that’s kind of the basis of it. I’ve skipped a lot of steps. I’ve just bounced across the top of this theory, but that gives you the basic idea of why we’re here, what we are, what our purpose is, which is to grow up, become loved, caring, cooperative. We see that this is a fractal process of people now are aware of things that are called geometric fractals, where you take a geometric shape and you build on it. You just put triangles on triangles on triangles at different scales and levels, and you can build up something that really never ends. It has no boundaries. You can just keep doing this and it gets more and more complex and more and more detailed as you go. Think of a process fractal.
[00:31:30] Instead of a geometric shape that you keep adding to, you have a process. It’s a fractal because the output of the process then becomes the input for the next step, the next generation. That process changes that input, gives you a different output, which now that becomes the input, for that process again. What’s the process called? It’s called evolution. Evolution is a process fractal. Process fractals can start very simply. It’s a very simple idea. You get this tremendous complexity out of the system. It’s unbounded, which means it just keeps going. As long as there’s things to change, things to improve on, then it just keeps going.

[00:32:00] Our universe is this process fractal. That’s why there’s such detail in it. Our little planet is process fractal. That’s why you take a couple of cells and then the evolution guys can tell you have those couple of cells end up with what we’ve got here on this planet. All the stuff, all the animals, all the bushes, everything just comes out of some of those cells if you let evolution [crunch 00:32:02] on that. That’s building up a process fractal, you see? Now, that means that things in our reality are self similar because in a fractal, you look at any piece of it and you can kind of see the pattern of the whole in every piece.
[00:32:30] Look how we have evolved here. We’ve evolved with single cell things. What do they have to do to become the next step? They had to cooperate and become multi-celled things. The multi-celled things had to cooperate in the next step in order to become differentiates cells, things with organs, things with internal parts. They had to cooperate. We can see that every level, what has happened is …
Guy
Got it.
Tom
[00:33:30] That entropy’s been reduced. You get a more complex product, you see? These things cooperate, and share, and become one thing, one other bigger thing, and now you have a more complex, lower entropy, more survivable entity. Now, here we are, and what is our thing to do? What are we, as a species, supposed to do? Just like the bacteria, our job is to come together, learn how to cooperate. Now, we’re not going to bond shoulder-to-shoulder like the cells did. That’s a cellular thing. That’s not our thing. We need to learn to cooperate, care, work together, to produce something that’s bigger and better than what we are now.
[00:34:00] As you can see, that’s the fractal process tells you that you see these patterns, and you look at these evolutionary patterns in everything, and you see that’s way things evolve. Look at technology, how does it evolve? Same thing. Processes get more and more complex building on the older processes. They produce something new and then something else builds on that. It just goes. If you look at the very basics of it, you see that it’s a process that is iterating on itself. All evolution is like that. They’re all process fractals and that’s why we have things keep getting more and more complex and more and more interesting as we go because we keep iterating. We keep iterating.
Guy
[00:34:30] I have to ask, Tom. It triggered a thought there, sorry, because I’m still just trying to process all that. When you talk …
Tom
That was a lot to process. That’s something that most people take about six months, or a year, or so to process. It was a big data talk …
Guy
I will definitely re-listen to this afterwards. For sure, mate. If our purpose is to lower entropy and be more loving, more cooperative, and grow as a unity, why is it right now fear can be such a default mode for people and individuals?
Tom
[00:35:30] That’s because we’re not very grown up. If you look at this process of evolution, we are not in graduate school here. We’re not even in college, we’re not even in high school. We’re like in daycare. We’re in elementary school. We, in our evolutionary process, are just struggling to accomplish what it is that we’re supposed to do. If you look at history, go back just 300 years, which is an eye blink of the three million years we’ve been evolving, you can see that it’s gotten more cooperative, it’s gotten more caring. Things have gotten better, in general. Yes, it looks awful when you just read the papers and look out on the street, but it’s who we are. What you see out on the street is a very accurate reflection of who we are.
[00:36:00]
[00:36:30] The quality of consciousness that we have and I will equate that high quality consciousness has very low entropy. Low quality of consciousness is very high entropy. We generally have a long way to go. What you see in the street is accurate. What we are, our institutions … We blame the politicians, you know, we blame the corporate CEOs, we blame these other people, but they’re a reflection of us. They’re not that different than we are. If you take any of those CEOs and replace them with just some random guy pulled out of a random distribution someplace, he’ll end up being about the same way because that’s the way we are. As we grow up, all those institutions and everything will change. That’s the idea. How do you save the world? You do it by changing yourself. That’s the biggest …
Guy
[00:37:00] That was going to be my next question. As an individual, if you are constantly coming from a fear-based … Living that way of life and you want to go you know what, I’m tired of this. I want to change this, I want to be what I want to see in others, how do you go about that, if you keep falling back into that mode? If there is an answer.
Tom
[00:38:00] You have to make changes at what I call the being level. We operate on two levels. A being level, which is really what we are at our core, and then an intellectual level, and that is what we think we are. That’s what we’d like to be. That’s our intellect. Those two are generally pretty different. The difference is is that if you have fear, that fear generates ego. I define ego as awareness in the service of fear, and it generates beliefs because you believe things because it makes you feel better. If you believe that they’re that way. That’s again, a fear-based thing. How you have to grow up is to get rid of the fear. That’s it. You just have to get rid of the fear. If you get rid of the fear, what’s left is good stuff. What’s left is the caring, the love, the compassion, and all that stuff. How do you get rid of the fear?
[00:38:30] Fears are hard to find because these fears are things that are deep inside of us. Things we believe, and we don’t see them. We don’t see them most of the time. Ego, that’s easy to spot. That’s just really, really easy to spot. We don’t spot our beliefs either because what we believe is true is just true to us. We don’t question that so it’s not like we can say oh, that’s a belief of mine. No, that’s true, you see? If the ego is the weak link there that you can really see. How do you tell ego? If you’ve ever experienced anything other than joy, peace, love, caring, compassion, and feel joy and satisfaction in your life, if that’s not you then you’ve got ego.
[00:40:00] Ego represents all those unhappy things. All the negatives. Anger, stress, annoyance, dissatisfaction. All that. If you have one of those negative emotions, negative feelings, you can trace that back to ego. It’s about you. When you trace that back to ego, you can trace that ego then back to fear. Why do I have that need? It will always be based on a fear of some sort. The fears I’m talking about not of fears of bears in the woods, or sharks in the water, they’re fears of being inadequate, fears of being incompetent, fears of not being lovable, fears of not being worthy. Those kinds of things are kind of core fears that a lot of people have. Fears of not being appreciated. Fears of not being noticed. That our skills and talents aren’t being treated appropriately. We have all these fears about life. Fears that we won’t have enough money to keep our family safe. Fears that we’ll get a lousy job and be unhappy. We have all these fears and they create the issues that make us unhappy, for the most part.
Stu
Do you have any key or core strategies that would allow people to simply address these fears in the hope of turning that around?
Tom
[00:41:00]
Yeah, well the first thing is a process. The first part of the process is does one really want to get rid of the fear? Because if it’s just an intellectual thought, oh, I ought to get rid of these fears, but you’re not really committed to it at the being level, it’s not going to work out. You’ll play with it for a while and then you’ll let it go and go on to something more interesting. First you have to be committed. That commitment then should say all right, I’m going to start with something simple. What’s something that aggravates me? What’s something that annoys me? What’s something that bothers me and kind of makes me not happy and full of joy? Take that and find out why, why do you feel that way? Why is it that when your boss tells you this, it just makes you feel really bad? You’ll find out that it’s an ego thing. I’m not appreciated.
[00:42:00] I starts with an I. That’s one of the keys. The sentences that all start with I, they’re all about you. Fear is all about you. Fear is self-centered. You don’t have fear because of something else, you have fear because it’s about you. Caring is about other, love is about other. You will find then, once you find that ego thing that makes you unhappy, or sad, or aggravated, find the fear. Why is that? Then, learn to accept that fear. Say okay, my boss may never appreciate what I bring to this job. How are you going to deal with that? The way you can deal with it in a lot of different ways. The way you’re dealing with it now is that it upsets you. It makes you unhappy, it makes you angry, you see. That’s the way you’re dealing with it. There’s other ways of dealing with it. Once you accept it and say all right, that just may be the case.
[00:43:00] Well, now, what are my alternatives? Well, I can try to understand my boss’s perspective and see what he’s thinking, and feeling, and why he’s like that, and why he doesn’t notice those things, and then maybe I’ll be able to help him see it differently. Or maybe I just need to go move, get another job someplace else. Or maybe it’s because of the way I act. Maybe I’m always acting pushy and the boss is real standoffish with my being pushy. You start looking at how can I deal with this in a positive, caring way? Not me against the world, not how can I get myself put up front, in front of other people. That’s not it. How can I deal with this in a win, win, win way so everybody wins? You almost always can find a way to do that. That’s the thing.
[00:43:30] It takes courage first to see that you have the fear, and it takes courage, second, to do something about it. It takes a lot of stick-to-it-ive-ness to actually work the process through because our egos will always tell us that we’re justified, it’s not us, it’s them. We blame everything on somebody else. It’s not me, it’s the boss. It’s not me, it’s the wife. It’s not me, it’s the kids. It’s everybody else out there and that’s the problem.
Guy
Boy, it’s so easy to blame, isn’t it? Yeah.

Tom
[00:44:30] Yes, and that’s not the problem. The problem is you and you have to take responsibility for every choice you make. That’s what we’re here for. We’re in a game, making choices. The game helps us make choices toward being loved or being fair. Every choice we make is a choice in that game and it moves us one way or another, it increases or decreases our entropy. Then there’s a few choices, of course, that are neutral, but most of our choices are things that will help us evolve or de-evolve. That’s the whole point of being here. Look at those choices and decide all right, what am I going to do with my boss here? What choices do I have? If you do that with an open mind, you’ll probably find a solution that is a win-win, and suddenly things will get better, you see? Because now instead of saying how can I fix it, how can I get ahead, it’s how can I deal with this problem. Maybe you can’t deal with it any other way than leave it. Going someplace else may be the way to deal, but still, that’s an honest decision.
[00:45:30] That’s how you go through your life. You have to be aware of who and what you are. You have to be aware of where your intents come from. What’s your motivation in this? If your motivation is it’s all about you, how can I get more for me? How can I get what I want? How can I get people to do what I want them to do? How can I get people to see things the way I see them? That’s all I, I, I. How can I. It’s all about you. Instead of making it about them, what can I contribute? What can I give? How can I make this a better situation? That’s the way you do it. People will find that difficult. It’s not an easy thing to do because changing yourself at the intellectual level is not the game. You can think the whole thing through and say oh, okay, if I act like this, then my boss will act like that, and that will be better, but you’re acting. That’s not the point.
[00:46:30] You have to make a change at the being level. You have to be different, not just act different. Acting different is more civilizing, but it doesn’t lower entropy any. Being different lowers the entropy and gets you ahead, makes you a different person. That’s how you go about doing it. Easy to say, a lot harder to do. If you really want to, you can make progress. Pick the simplest fear you can find and work on that until it’s gone. When it’s gone, you’ll feel lighter. You’ll feel like a load’s been taken off your shoulders and life will be happier and you’ll have more positive moments and less negative ones. Then work on the next one. The toughest one is the first one.
Guy
Yeah, right.
Tom
Because once you see the process and see how it works and get the feedback, the rest of them become a lot easier. That’s how you actually implement this in your life.
Guy
Face your fears.
Stu
That’s good advice. Fantastic, yeah. [inaudible 00:46:48]
Guy
[00:47:00] That’s brilliant, Tom. That’s brilliant. From that, another question came. Because we’re a health podcast, ultimately, right. I’m curious to know, if we are in a constant state of stress, if we are thinking from a fear-based place, what is that doing to our body? If anything.
Tom
[00:48:00] Oh, well it does a lot not only to our body, but to our whole environment. One of the neat things about this virtual reality, and the way it’s set up, and the mechanics of how it’s designed and implemented is that our intent modifies future probability. The future’s just probable. There’s all kinds of things that might happen, and it’s based on our choices. As we make different choices, now there’s a different set of probabilities. We’re interacting with a whole bunch of other people making choices, which change the probabilities. Our intents modify future probability. What that means that if you have an intent that’s negative, that makes it more likely that negative things are going to happen because you’re putting energy into that probability. If you have an intent that’s very positive, now the probability that positive things happening gets higher because you’re putting energy into that intent being positive, now the probability of that positive thing happen goes up.
[00:48:30] It doesn’t mean you can get whatever you want. If at the beginning you had something that was a thousand to one, and you’d like it to happen, but it’s a thousand to one. With a really good intent, you may move it all the way up to a hundred and one. That’s tremendous. You’ve just moved a whole order of magnitude. Yay for you, but you’re still not likely going to get it because it’s still a hundred to one, you see? We’re just talking about modifying the probability, not necessarily making things happen the way you want. That’s a thing. So yes, if you’re a negative person, you’re going to generate more negativity.
[00:49:30] Another interesting thing about this virtual reality is that all the players are netted, sort of like they are in a lot of other virtual realities. You can talk and interact with other players, but here all consciousness is netted. You open and close that communication link with your intent. You get this information from other people all the time. When you are around someone who is just negative and all they do is complain and all they do is just blame other people and so on, it’s a downer. After you spend a few hours with people like that, you just need to leave. You need to go someplace else because they just drag you down. That’s because they’re sharing this negativity with you. That’s why a mob acts worse than any of the individuals in the mob would act. They feed on each other’s negativity. The opposite works too.
[00:50:00] People who are really positive, really up, smile all the time, are kind of happy. Those people, if you’re around them, make you feel better. They pull you up, you see? We’re all netted and we can effect the future by our intents as well as by the way we interpret. Each of us now in this virtual reality game lives in our own unique reality. It’s similar because it’s a multiplayer game. Your reality depends on how you interpret all those little pixels. How do you interpret the data? You interpret it based on your history. Based on your fear, based on your love, based on all that stuff’s how you interpret it.
[00:50:30] We all interpret it differently. We’re living in different realities close enough we all agree this is a table and that’s a wall, and we’re all in this building together, but what that means to us is all individual. The significance of it is all individual. What we make of it, how it makes us feel, how we react to it, that’s all individual. It’s a very interesting game that we’re playing in here and attitude is a very big part of it because attitude reflects your intent. If you think negatively, it makes negative things happen. If you have all this negative energy, you’re blaming people, then you tend to get that.
Guy
More of it.
Tom
[00:51:30] With health, it damages your body when you’re negative, it’s more likely now that negative things will happen to your body. People who are really grouchy, and unhappy, and miserable all the time tend to get ill, tend to get sick, don’t live as long. That’s why because they’re generating, they’re manifesting that kind of negativity in their physical system. People who are very up and happy people tend to not have so many illnesses and they tend to live a lot longer. Health is a very important part of it. That’s why the placebo effect works.
[00:52:30] Placebo effect. Give somebody a sawdust pill and tell them it’s going to make their liver work better or something, and about 35, 40% it will. Their liver will start working better. It’s not just that they think it will. It’s not tricking them. It really will work better. That’s the placebo effect. In fact, drug companies have to beat that placebo effect before they can market their drug, right? They have to do better than that. The placebo works because it creates a positive intent about an outcome. Therefore, that outcome becomes more likely. For those illnesses where there’s a lot of uncertainty. In other words, the illness could go this way or that way, there’s not really hard probabilities. There’s not one in a thousand that anything happens. Everything’s in the 50-50, 50-40 kind of thing.
[00:54:00] A lot of things could happen and they’re all kind of equally possible. All you need is just a little bit of intent to make that 48 change to a 52 in the probability. From a .48 to .52. It just raises it a little, but it goes from sick to healthy. That’s why the placebo effect works the way it does. That’s why people can use their intent to heal. That’s why if you’ve got a strong intent that you’re not going to get sick, even though you’re exposed to people who have colds and other things, you don’t catch it. If you’re one of those people that says oh, yeah, I get everything. I’m always sick. I go to a grocery store, I touch the cart handle, and I get sick. I go fly in an airplane and I get sick, and those people get sick all the time because that’s what they’re encouraging. They feel that way. You can change things in your body. The mind leads and the body follows. This body is just an avatar. It’s computed, you see? You can change it with your intent. That has a lot to do with health. If you’re speaking of health, here’s my green smoothie. I live on green smoothies. That’s what I live on. I mostly eat raw fruits and vegetables to stay alive and green smoothie is the basic core of my diet.
Stu
If I was the happiest person on the planet, but my diet was dire, like ludicrous. Do you think that my mindset would negate my diet?
Tom
Some of it.
Stu
Or does diet a much stronger component? I’m thinking about that because I know that you were in the movie That Sugar Film, weren’t you?
Tom
Yes.
Stu
We had Damon Gameau, the director of that movie on here, on the podcast. I can see now where you’re coming from from everything that we’ve spoken about today. Firstly, how did that come about? What was your role in the movie?
Tom
[00:55:00] I just got an email from Damon and he said I’m making a film about sugar, and I understand you have some opinions about it. Could I talk to you? I said sure, and he said I’m going to be in the country at such-and-such a time. We just set a date and he rang the doorbell, showed up at my house, and we sat down, and made that movie. I thought the movie was brilliant. I think they really did a good job.
Stu
They did a fantastic job.

Tom
[00:55:30] Yeah, it was really good. I think his audience, he really focused it. I mean, he’s after the young crowd, the young people who have such terrible diets. He made it fun, he made it interesting, he made it exciting, a lot of things going on. I thought it was a really, really good job. The fact that all of us talking heads were pictures on labels, I thought that was just perfect. Couldn’t have come up with a … I’ve never seen that happen anytime before. Talking heads are boring. If you’re going to have a talking head, put it on a mayonnaise jar, you know? That was really a good idea. That’s how it came about. He just asked me to be in it.
[00:57:00] I’ve been a professional physicist all my life, since I was 20-something. Got out of graduate school. Almost the same amount of time, I’ve studied consciousness. What he was interested in was my understanding of how the two meet. Of what you eat and your consciousness, and the clarity of consciousness. You heard my talking head on the labels. Basically, sugar is probably the worst, but any kind of stuff that’s not healthy will effect your consciousness. There’s a lot of things we eat that are psychotropic. Sugar’s one of them. In other words, they effect your consciousness. How you think. People don’t realize it because they’ve been eating sugar, really addicted to sugar for so long that they don’t know any other way of being. To them, it’s normal. This sugar doesn’t bother me because you’ve been in a sugar stupor all your life, and you don’t know any other reality, but if you get off sugar, your mind clears up. You get so much more clarity.
[00:57:30] I don’t know the physiology of it, but my best guess is is that the sugar that we eat, because we have so much of it all the time, our body never really settles out with our glucose level. Our glucose level is always zinging up and down, and it never stays the same for very long because people don’t generally go more than an hour or two without dumping more sugar into their system. It takes some time for the glucose levels to get steady. Glucose has a lot to do with how your brain works. Glucose is energy and it’s very a key element to how your central nervous system works. If that level is constantly moving, changing, going up, going down, then you’re in a fog all the time. You’re not really in a very stable mental state.
[00:59:00] It’s a problem. If you give it to kids, who aren’t so used to it yet, you get bad behavior. They get rowdy, they get hyper, they get loud, they get to where they’re not playing nicely together anymore. It just does that. All you have to do is go into a schoolroom where they had cupcakes for lunch and you can see what it does to the kids. How can you learn when your mind is just zinging on a psychotropic drug like sugar? That’s a big problem. I learned about it in my consciousness research with Bob Monroe and in order to get a clear mind so that I could do the things that Bob was trying to help me do, my mind had to be perfectly clear and not be cloudy or fuzzy. Eventually, I could tell that difference from being fuzzy and not fuzzy. Once I could tell the difference, I could tell that sugar just made a lot of difference. If you take some sugar, it just clouds you over.
[01:00:00] My best example would be taking sugar does about the same thing to you that what a couple of decades ago taking an antihistamine did. That was before the no-drowsy antihistamines. Back in the days when you took an antihistamine, the big, block letters said don’t operate a vehicle, don’t do any of this stuff if you take these pills because it made you just not very responsive. It kind of put you in a mild coma to where you were going on automatic but not really connecting to your reality very well. That’s what sugar does. People live in that state all the time, therefore they don’t know it until they get off. Once you get off, the way it really hits you is that you make a mistake and you have something that has some sugar in it, and suddenly, your head is just not functioning. It’s like you’re living in a cloud. It’s one of those where you sit down and stare at a blank wall and be entertained because you’re just not functioning very well and you notice it then. You don’t notice it as you get off, but because it’s so gradual, it takes a long time for your system to work that off. It’s a very tough addiction to break. People make all kinds of excuses why they just … It’s all right, it’s just a little sugar.
Guy
We hear them all the time, I tell you.
Tom
[01:01:00]
It’s just a little drink. I’m just going to have one beer, that’s all. Same sort of thing. Junkies have a hard time not justifying why a little hit of dope isn’t going to be a problem. It’s tough. But if you get off of it and then you get a hit, take a bite of candy bar or something, you’ll notice it. It will be like day and night. You’ll go from clarity to foggy, and you’ll really see what you’ve been living in all this time and not aware of it. That was really the message I had for Damon, and that’s why he used a little bit of my idea …
Guy
Brilliant.
Tom
Brilliant.
Guy
I’m fully aware, guys, of the time as well. There’s a couple of things I want to cover before the end of the show.
Tom
We can run over, if you’d like, if you want to break it into two shows or something, that’s okay.
Guy
Yeah, I’ve literally got about 25 minutes before I have to go to an appointment. The first thing, Tom, is that you’re coming to Australia next year.
Tom
Yes.
Guy
What can we expect on your tour?
Tom
That’s a really good question. I’m not sure that I know the answer to that.
Guy
Perfect.
Tom
I don’t know. I’m asking the same question. I’m going to come to Australia, what can I expect when I get there?
Guy
A bunch of Aussies, yeah.
Tom
[01:02:30]
I will talk a little bit about who I am and where I come from, as far as conceptually. How I got there and just like we did tonight, here, in about 20 minutes try to wind it all up into a summary pretty quickly. I will do that. I’ll probably talk a little bit about the science side of it because there’s always some people who are very interested in the science and the experiments, and what they’re going to show and how do they work, and that kind of thing. I would like to always have time for questions because I think that’s really more important than me giving a speech. If I give a speech, goodness, I’ve got almost 400 videos on YouTube. If you want to hear me giving speeches, you can just spend the next six months listening to Tom Campbell give speeches.
[01:03:00]
[01:03:30] I don’t want to just come and talk because most of what I’m going to say, I’ve already said. I can’t go into a whole lot of depth because a lot of people there will be new to it. You’ll just lose them. They won’t know what you’re talking about. I have to keep it general so that everybody can get something out of it, and the way to do that is to just give a summary. I’d like to try and tie it in to some of the culture that you come from. Maybe could tie it into some of your aborigines’ ideas, the dreaming that they talk about, and how that kind of fits into the model because a lot of those aboriginal concepts, a lot of the Shaman kind of concepts actually are based on experience. They’re usually a limited experience, but they’re based on the experience of the people and that gets passed along over thousands of years. Of course it gets changed and dogma creeps into it, and other things, but you can see the basic, fundamental understanding of the nature of reality comes out of a lot of that.
Guy
Yeah, brilliant.
Tom
Instead of saying this is a virtual reality, you could say we’re living in a dream. This reality’s not real. The real thing is some other nonphysical place and this is the dream reality. You’ve just taken another way of calling this a virtual reality. You can tie my concepts into a lot of fundamental ideas that have been around for thousands of years, so I will try to do that in each place I go to see if I can make some connections with that particular culture.
Guy
I know you’ll be in Sydney in March 2017, that’s correct?
Tom
Yes.
Guy
Certainly once this podcast is live, we’ll be linking to that show. For anyone that’s been listening to this today is intrigued and will probably have a bucket more questions, they can certainly come along and ask you as many questions as they’d like. I know you don’t come to Australia very often, Tom.
[01:05:00]
Tom
No, I don’t. It’s a long trip. It’s expensive and it’s going to be tough.
Guy
I’m going to do my best to come there anyway, Tom, and certainly we’ll be sharing this podcast as much as we can to give people the opportunity …
Tom
[01:05:30] If they want to know exactly where I’m going to be and when I’ll be there, go to WWW.MBTEvents. Those are the people that plan everything for me. I don’t plan any of it. All I do is go where they tell me and talk when I’m told to. I just pay attention and they do all the planning. They know a whole lot more than I do, exactly where I’m going to be, and what the circumstances are, and the venues, and that. That’s the place to go. They will have all the details. I’m just the talking head. They bring me along to talk …
Guy
That’s the way to be. It’s fantastic. Mate, last question for the show, and we ask everyone on the show this question. That’s what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?
Tom
[01:06:30]
That I’ve ever been given. Best piece of advice. I suspect something that’s kind of been with me from when I was maybe six or seven or eight years old was something my father told me. He said anything worth doing is worth doing right. That stuck with me for a long time. If you’re going to go in to something … If you’re going to work on your fear then don’t just do it shallowly. If you’re going to do it, do it, and go all the way. Don’t just do it partly. I’ve kind of applied that to all the things I do.
[01:07:30] If I’m going to go into studying consciousness, then I’m going to go in to find out how it works. I won’t leave that thing alone until I feel like I’ve figured it out. I’ve done it. It’s the same with the physics. It’s the same with everything else. If you’re going to raise kids then you’ve got to find out how to do that. What does it take? Do what you have to do to do it right. Otherwise, you might as well not do it if you’re not going to put your whole self into it. I think that’s been kind of guiding advice for me since I’ve been what, maybe six or seven years old. I probably heard that phrase, if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right, 100 or 200 times because when you’re a kid, you don’t really care much about doing anything right, you just want to play and have fun. I heard that a whole lot, but I took it to heart and I think that was maybe some of the best advice that I’d ever gotten.

Stu
It’s good advice. Absolutely.
Guy
I know you’ve got a website as well, Tom. Outside of the events one. Is that MyBigToe.Com?
Tom
Oh, yeah, I have a website. Right, it’s MyBigToe.com. WWW.MyBigToe, all one word .com.
Guy
I have your book here as well, My Big Toe, which I’m about a quarter of the way through. I’ve been making highlights and notes, and I highly recommend to people as well, to go and check it out. My Big Toe. My big theory on everything, right?
Tom
[01:08:30] That’s it, yeah. My big picture. Theory of everything. The reason I put my, not because I was so proud of it. It’s not oh, this is my big toe. That’s not the point. The point is that if it’s not your experience, it can’t be your truth. I tell people throughout the book, you have to experience it yourself. Don’t believe what I tell you. I tell you things and if you just decide to believe it or just decide not to believe it, neither one of those is worth a damn. It’s not going to take you anyplace. What you have to do is experience it. You have to live it, you have to be it.
[01:09:00]
[01:09:30] It’s my big toe, you need to make your own big toe, and let my big toe just be a place to get you started. A jumping off place. Then you need to constantly test your big toe against reality that you run into. That’s how it has to be. That’s why the my is in there. I’m trying to discourage people from being believers or disbelievers. Belief is a big part of the problem. That’s why I say that. I know sometimes that hits people the wrong way. Oh, it’s his big toe. I wonder if he’ll share it with me. That’s not the point. It needs to be your big toe, not mine. Otherwise it’s not your truth. If you’re trying to live somebody else’s truth, it isn’t going to work.
Guy
Brilliant.
Stu
Totally right. It makes sense.
Guy
Tom, thank you so much for coming on the show today, Tom. That was awesome. I’m going to listen to that several times once it goes live to get my head around some of that, but that was fantastic.
Tom
I talk fast.
Guy
[01:10:00] Mate, I look forward to meeting you in Sydney when you come over. I’ll do my best to come down and be there for the weekend, I think it will be fantastic.
Stu
Hope that you can share a green smoothie together, Tom.
Tom
[01:10:30] Yes, that would be great. I tell you, when I travel, it is so hard because I don’t have my green smoothies to live on every day. You can’t just go someplace and get a green smoothie that is nothing but organic vegetables and organic fruit. If you do find one, it’s about 90% fruit and about 10% vegetables because that’s the way people like them, and it’s just too sweet, that’s not what I want. Mine are just the opposite. Mine are about 75% vegetables and 25% fruit. I also exercise every day and when you’re travelling, you just can’t do that. You don’t have the time, you don’t have the stuff, you don’t have the equipment. Until I get back, I’m going to be a basket case.
Stu
What sort of exercise do you do, Tom? How do you exercise? What do you do?
Tom
I work out about two hours, five days a week. I start out with about a half hour of core muscle exercises. I think sometimes they’re called kegels. I then do about an hour-and-a-half worth of weights. Then I get on either a treadmill or a Schwinn-Airdyne bicycle and I do aerobic exercises for about a half hour. The last thing I get on is a vibrating platform for balance. The platform’s going up and down, and back and forth, and sideways, and I stand on it with one foot and lean this way, lean that way, just do these balance things because you’ve got a bunch of little small muscles that function for your balance and things like that. Weights don’t touch those. Weights will do the big muscles.
Stu
No, that’s right. [crosstalk 01:11:47]
Tom
[01:12:00] All the little muscles, you have to actually go do things like play basketball or play soccer. You do stuff like that then all those little muscles that have to do with balance and coordination, then they get developed. I’m almost 72 years old, so I don’t do a lot of basketball and soccer games. I’m kind of out of that league now. I do this machine that helps work those muscles out. Then after that, I get in the steam room for a little bit. Sweat, and then it’s the shower, and then it’s start my day. That’s me, Monday through Friday, I start every day that way. Once I’m travelling, it’s going to be tough to do any of that.
Guy
We certainly know Sydney like the back of our hand, Tom, so we can certainly guide you in the right directions for some good smoothies.
Tom
Great.
Guy
That’s for sure.
Tom
[01:13:00] That will really be great. Every once in a while, somebody knows that I do smoothies and they’ll come up with one and it’s like a blessing. I finally get some good nutrition. It’s really hard. Come on over and ask questions. All of your listeners because I am going to leave a lot of time for answering questions rather than just lecturing. I think that’s more important and I’m not sure how big the audience will be, if it’s like 30, or 40, or 50 people, then most everybody can get their questions answered. If it’s a lot more than that, it will be a little harder, maybe. If it’s less than that, it’s almost personal. We’ll just do the best we can and see what happens.
Guy
No, that’s brilliant, Tom.
Stu
[crosstalk 01:13:22]
Guy
[01:13:30] We’re going to expose you to our listeners today. It’s going to be a completely new audience, I feel, Tom. I encourage everyone that’s listening to this show, come along. We’re going to be there and it would be great to meet you in person. You listen to our podcast anyway and be able to hang out with someone like this I think is going to be a special weekend.
Tom
Maybe some of your listeners will want to talk about the ethical reasons for being vegetarian.
Guy
Yeah, right.
Tom
[01:14:00] As opposed to just the health reasons. There’s another whole side of vegetarianism that has nothing to do, really, with health. It has to do with ethics. That could be an interesting discussion since you have the health beat.
Guy
Totally.
Stu
Nutrition sits along politics and religion as very personal topics, so it certainly gets people heated, but we love talking about all things.
Tom
[01:15:00] It does. Another thing your people about nutrition would like is that the idea that the mind leads and the body follows. If you’ve got problems that seem just to be intractable, they’re really not. You can change an awful lot with intent. That’s another thing that’s very important about health because sometimes people will just have things like you can’t get rid of. You have whatever … Diabetes, maybe, or something like that. There’s ways of turning that around. Modifying your body chemistry so that you don’t have those problems anymore. It just takes a focused mind, and a focused intent, and some time, but there’s a lot of things that you can do, health-wise, that don’t have anything to do with what medicines should I take. It’s all what can you do with your consciousness. After all, this body’s just a bunch of ones and zeroes in a computer. You can change how that computer displays it, if you want.

Guy
Yeah, amazing.
Stu
It’s so true. We’ve spoken to so many people, as well, that share your beliefs. Absolutely. Mind over matter.
Guy
Gentlemen, I have to say thank you very much. That was phenomenal and yeah, look forward to Sydney. Thank you, Tom. Thank you, Stu.
Stu
Thank you.
Tom
Thank you, Guy. Thank you, Stu. I appreciate the opportunity.
Guy
It’s been awesome.
Stu
Look forward to seeing you next year, Tom.
Tom
Okay, we’ll see you then.
Guy
Thanks, guys.
Tom
Bye.