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How the Law of Attraction Works; The Scientific Explanation

The above video is 4:22 minutes long.

Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

Guy: Do you remember the movie The Secret? Ever since that movie came out people were talking about creating their reality and attracting riches beyond their wildest dreams! All a bit woo woo?

Well who better person to ask than a neuroscientist and psychologist who studies brain function and how it interacts with the world. In other words, he shares with us how our thoughts and subconscious beliefs play a big role in the quality of our experience of life! 

Dr Jeffrey Fannin

 

Our special guest today is Dr Jeffrey Fannin. He holds a Ph.D. in Psychology, an MBA and a Bachelor of Science degree in Mass Communications. He is the founder and executive director for the Center for Cognitive Enhancement and Thought Genius, LLC.

Dr. Fannin has extensive experience training the brain for optimal brain performance working with head trauma, stroke, chronic pain, Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD/ADHD), anxiety disorders, depression, trauma recovery. His research and experience also extends into high performance training, such as: personal achievement, performance brainmapping for sports, enhancing leadership skills through brainwave entrainment; improving brain function and to enhance mental and emotional dexterity and personal transformation.

Full Interview: Tapping into the Law of Attraction, Subconscious Beliefs & Maximising Brain Power

Audio Version:

In This Episode:

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  • Where to start if you struggle with meditation
  • How we create our daily reality with our thoughts
  • How to calm down anxiety and mind chatter
  • How to create energy coherence throughout the body to feel energised
  • What brain mapping over 3000 advanced meditators over the last 3 years has taught him
  • And much much more…

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Full Transcript

Hey, this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition and welcome to today’s health sessions. We have an awesome guest for you today and his name is Dr. Jeffrey Fannin. Now, he’s the founder and executive director for the Center of Cognitive Enhancement and Thought Genius. Now, he’s also an international authority and speaker in the field of neuroscience research. In a nutshell, he’s a brain expert and understands the brain, how it operates. He has extensive experience training the brain essentially for optimal brain performance and he’s been doing this for 17 years.

It’s a podcast you’re going to have to hang on to your hats to a little bit and if it was the first time we had a brain expert on. Now, in a nutshell, he’s been working with people from such as like head traumas, attention deficit disorders, ADD, ADHD, anxiety disorders, depression, trauma recovery. He’s then worked on the other end of the scale for high performance training such as personal achievement, personal performance, brain mapping for sports, enhancing leadership skills and all this is through brain entrainment.

I have to say this is a podcast that goes in every direction totally and this one I’m definitely going to listen to again just to fully understand everything that was spoken about today. All I say is just keep an open mind and just absorb it and see how you go. There’s a lot of practical advice in there too.

Just to give a bit of background, I first met Dr. Fannin. I actually had a brain mapping consultation with him. I was fortunate enough to be in a Dr. Joe Dispenza workshop now a few months ago and if you’re not familiar who Dr. Joe Dispenza is, we actually interviewed him on the podcast a few months ago as well. I highly recommend you check that out because it’s going to be quite a correlation into today’s episode. Essentially, we went to basically a meditation boot camp, if you like, for four and a half days and they brought a team of scientists [00:02:00] in and measured the activity of the brain and the coherence and what was going on within the body. That was Dr. Fannin’s role so I got to know him them and then I’d have consultations since. It’s just been blowing me away with the information I’ve learned from it and now I’m just trying to bring it back in and apply it to my daily life because that’s what we want to do. You want to try and be the best version of yourself and move forward with that.

If ever you’re wondering why we think negative thoughts, why we can be in a state of anxiety half the time, why do we do the things we do even though we don’t want to be doing them and we have bad habits and all sorts and all sorts and react to situations when we don’t necessarily want to, then Dr. Jeff Fannin is going to certainly explain a lot of that today.

Strap yourself in and enjoy. All right, let’s go ahead to Dr. Jeff Fannin.

Hi, this is Guy Lawrence. I’m joined with Stuart Cooke as always. Hi Stuart.

Stu:                  Hello mate.

Guy:                  And our fanstastic guest today is Dr. Jeffrey Fannin. Jeffrey, welcome to the show.

Jeff:                  Hi, it’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for having me on.

Guy:                  It’s greatly appreciated. Now you’re actually our first brain specialist so I think you need to go easy on us a little bit today, okay?

Jeff:                  I’ll try and do that, yeah.

Guy:                  It does get me thinking, if you sat in an airplane next to a complete stranger and they asked you what you did for a living, how would you answer that?

Jeff:                  That happens to me more frequently than you think. We might be at a dinner party or on an airplane or something like that and it always gets around to what do you do. I used to answer that in a variety of ways and I’ve tried to simplify it. Now I explain to people I’m a neuroscientist. Then they get this deer in the headlights look, just like oh my good, this guy’s reading my brain. Then they want to know more about that and so we ensue with that conversation. What does [00:04:00] that mean exactly?

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We measure brainwave activity and we do that through brain mapping. We do an EEG, electroencephalogram, and then we will convert that into a quantitative EEG which means that we look at all these little heads and the colors on there tells us what’s going on in the brain. With these consults that I do everyday for people all around the world that have been to one of Dr. Joe Dispenza’s events and we do brain mapping on them and then I can do an interpretation. We use a GoToMeeting like what we’re doing on Skype here. I bring up their brain map and I can show them here’s what’s working for you, here’s what’s not working for you.

We even have a lot of signatures from people who are highly intuitive and I’ll show them that signature and ask them a question, do you think that you’re intuitive and the stories I get after that are just amazing. Well, yeah, it comes out in this way and that way and so I’ll show them the pattern of here’s the part that is what we call clairsentient or you know things about people but you don’t know how you know it. Then I’ll show them the signature on the other side of the brain of this is when people are able to interpret other people’s emotional states and you can do that quite readily. Then they’ll have a lot of stories about that.

Everybody has that ability. The question is do people tend to cultivate that and so with these meditators that we work with all around the world, the one thing that I’m finding that’s really fascinating to me is when we look at their brain map that there are these markers. There’s about 12 markers and we see a great deal in consistency. Over the last three years that we’ve measured them [00:06:00] at these events, probably close to 3,000 people, and talking with them we see the same kinds of signatures. Some are more defined than other but these people have the same markers and those markers really are the starting point where the magic begins to happen for a lot of these people.

We measure people who have actually inter-dimensional experiences. They have beings that visit them during these events. We have a lot of people who have been able to do healing. We’ve got a lot of stories in Dr. Joe’s book You Are the Placebo: Making Your Mind Matter and a bunch of brain cases in there where people have gotten rid of brain tumors, people who have lessened the effects of Parkinson’s disease or Hashimoto’s disease. Over the years, we hear a lot of that going on.

Guy:                  To pull it back a bit from that just to get a bit of background on what you do. I know you’ve been doing this a long time. I think it’s about 17 years.

Jeff:                  Yeah, over 17 years now.

Guy:                  We’re always interested to find out a little bit about the journey because I knew you used to be a pilot. Is that correct?

Jeff:                  That’s true. In fact my keen ambition for a long time was to be an astronaut. At one time I had an appointment to the US Air Force Academy. My cousin was a former governor and senator of Arizona where I live. I didn’t live in Arizona at that time but my grades were good enough to capture an appointment to the Air Force Academy. Then the Vietnam War is [00:08:00] pretty heavy during that time. I didn’t know if I really wanted to be in the military. I want to be an astronaut. That was pretty clear from the time I was about nine or ten years old. I wrote letters to the Mercury astronauts back then. They actually sent me letters back. Their secretaries probably signed them but I cherish them and had a little scrapbook with their pictures and followed all the Mercury stuff.

When it got to the point of having to decide whether I was going to go into the Air Force Academy I didn’t know if I really wanted to have a career in the military. I ended up … They had a banquet where we got a chance to talk to a lot of the cadets and whatnot there. They explained what goes on. I got some bad advice from my father. He was on a submarine during World War II and he wanted me to go in the navy. I didn’t really want to be in service at all but decided that I was going to opt out of going to the academy. Then I went the long way around and became a pilot and used to fly tours of Grand Canyon, Lake Tahoe, Monument Valley, fire attack to the forest service, doing all of that. Then got my self to the airlines from that job and was with US Air and flying the tours and stuff like that.

Then I came around to getting a career in the airlines and got on with US Air and stayed there for a few years. I was based in Los Angeles, at LAX, living in Phoenix. Some people commute an hour to work in their car. I would go to the airport, get up the cockpit and the jump seat and commute an hour to work that [00:10:00] way. When they started having layoffs in the early ‘90s and my seniority number was in the middle of the stack so the first layoff that dropped me to the bottom of the stack and that was no fun because then I’d have to almost everyday go over to LAX and sit in the pilot lounge for several days in case they needed another crew and then you’d have to go out. It was just skuzzy that way.

Then they had another layoff and that dropped me out of the system. At that point I knew it’d be at least two or three years with the way the airline industry was going there in the ‘90s before I could get back in. At that time I decided I really want to follow more of this brain activity. A lot of guys that I would fly with, they said, I love flying with you because it’s like going to a Tony Robbins seminar in the cockpit because we’d talk about all this stuff that I was so passionate about and learning. That’s when I went back and got my PhD in psychology and then decided to go down this track and learned about brain mapping. After I got my PhD and started working with people and doing counseling and I decided there’s a lot of these people, they don’t really want to get well so I’m going to work with high performance with authors, professional athletes, people like that.

That was good and they’re a real quirky bunch. They want to do it but they don’t want to anybody to know they’re doing it.

Guy:                  Like it’s a secret weapon or something.

Jeff:                  Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly the way. If I’ve got an edge I don’t want you to know that I got an edge which is really interesting point of view. Anyway, from there I learned more about brain mapping and that really flipped my switch because the more [00:12:00] I learned about it the more I found out that there was to know and went down that road and then eventually met up with Dr. Dispenza. When we first got together it’s really a funny story of how we did get together. That I was speaking at an event of another friend of mind, Greg Reid, that does Secret Knock. He would bring me in periodically, still does, to do what I call brain magic from the stage.

We would put somebody’s brain live up on a big screen and I would show how they change subconscious belief patterns instantly and be able to show a whole bunch of different things. We would always have fun with that. While I was doing one of these, afterwards Doug caught my attention. He said, hey, come here. I need to talk to you. We started talking about the brain and what it does. Somehow we got on a subject of people that I wanted to meet and I said I have two people on the top of my list. One is Gregg Braden and the other is Dr. Joe Dispenza. I really want to meet these guys. He says, well I do work with Dr. Joe. He says, maybe we could get together on a Skype call or something. That sounded a lot to me like have your people call my people and we’ll do lunch kind of thing but it actually happened.

We got together and talked and Joe invited me up to the Seattle area. He was having a training with a bunch of his instructors. We started doing brain maps on all of them and I’m sitting there telling him all about these things that I could see on the screen. Then later that night when we’re having dinner, he said I’d been looking for somebody like you for three years.

I left out a piece of the story that’s really quite amusing here. That at the time I was actually reading Dr. Joe’s book, the Breaking the Habit of Being [00:14:00] Yourself and just mesmerized by the book. I had given Doug some of the papers that we had published from work that we had done at West Point which is another amusing thing that here I would have gone to the Air Force Academy and done that. Then I end up roundabout getting involved with a research team of Arizona State University and going to West Point and teaching them how to use their brains.

Guy:                  Wow, that’s quite a journey.

Jeff:                  Anyway, back to the story. Dr. Joe went to Doug and he was reading some of these papers that we published. He says, I don’t care what you have to do. Get me an appointment with this guy. I was doing the same thing. I went to Doug and I said Doug, you got to get me an appointment with him. This book is fascinating. Here we were both trying to connect then we connected and I went up to Seattle. From there he was getting ready to do one of his advanced meditative events here in Arizona so we hooked up with that. We didn’t even know whether we could measure anything. We just thought, hey, let’s get it a try so we did and we thought we measured something. Then the next event we did another one, we found more and more and more and so this thing has evolved to the point where it’s not uncommon for us to have 650 people in the room and I was brain mapping about 350 of those people during a five-day event.

Stu:                  You’ve spoken about the brain mapping and all of the analysis and the reporting that you would undergo while you’re doing that. Is that neurofeedback? Is that how you’d term …

Jeff:                  No, that’s very different. The brain mapping, you’re just measuring what’s going on in the brain under different conditions. Neurofeedback is when we are training the brain. Let’s suppose that we [00:16:00] see a very high elevation at some point in the brain. Let’s say it’s in the back of the brain, we see a lot of beta. That’s usually a pattern that’s consistent with anxiety. If we want to reduce that anxiety, we will set up a protocol to train the brain. We put the electrodes on the head and now with a lot of stuff we do, we put the cap on the head like we’re doing the brain mapping but we’re doing the brain training where we can train 5700 variables all at once.

You have to understand one of the basic elements of the brain. We have our thinking cortex, or the thinking part of our brain, it processes information at 40 bits per second. When you look at the subcortex, the subcortical region of the brain, it can process 40 million bits per second.

Guy:                  When you say subcortex, is that like the subconsciousness?

Jeff:                  That’s right, yeah. You can think of it that way. It can process a lot of information that we are not aware of. When we’re training the brain, let’s imagine that my finger here is like a thermometer of information going up and down. We have all of that high beta in the back of the brain that is consistent with the anxiety. We would then put a threshold on that so that would be where that tops out kind of like right there. Then if we want the brain to produce more of whatever it is, every time it goes above the threshold we’ll give it a reward. Every time it stays, if we wanted to produce less, every time it stays below that, then we’ll give the reward. The question is, what is the reward?

We can give it sound, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding kind of thing. There’s a part of the brain called the nucleus accumbens and that’s how we learn everything. If this then this. That’s how we learned. Night follows day. Our brain [00:18:00] is very simplistic in that process. When the brain is producing these frequencies and we give it this reward, ding, ding, ding, ding, every time it stays below the threshold, the brain goes oh, okay, I’m going to do that and so it does it over and over and over and over and over again. That’s called operant conditioning.

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What that does in the brain is it causes new dendrites to form and new neural pathways developed. That’s what is rewiring the brain. It’s the same thing as when you create a habit. They say it takes 21 days to create a habit. It takes 21 days for those neural pathways to entropy or to stop working.

Stu:                  Nowadays, we’re living in a society where we got signals coming from everywhere. We’ve got internet and mobile phone and constant chatter in our brains and a lot of us becoming more anxious and you’ve probably heard the term monkey mind, this endlessly chattering of the mind, never shuts off. How can we use your strategies to tackle this?

Because I know that sleep, for instance, can be an issue for people where their brains just don’t shut off and also mood, things like that. What can you do?

Jeff:                  Let’s talk about the two separate issues there. Let’s talk about the sleep first because that affects a lot of people. I think first of all, we’re … Let me put the sleep aside and lay some groundwork here. I think what happens with a lot of people, like you say we live in a society now where a lot of information is coming at us. Everybody’s got all kinds of gadgets that they use. Our brain is now evolving to a new element.

What happens is with all of that information that’s coming to us, we haven’t learned how to manage that information and so that’s why my [00:20:00] book coming out is called Help! My Thoughts Are Holding Me Hostage. That’s also the name of my radio show that I have recently.

The point being is as our brains are evolving to a new element, getting into the sleep issue for sure here. When we see a lot of activity in the front part of the brain, in what we call delta. The brain is producing a lot of frequencies all the time. Delta, theta, alpha, beta, a lot of people have heard those but they are faster in frequency. For example, when delta is the dominant factor that’s when you’re asleep. Here you are trying to get to sleep and you have all these beta or delta activity in the front, that’s when people’s sleep is disrupted. Their brain, that monkey mind in the brain so there you have busy mind, tossing and turning, they can’t shut some of that stuff off.

With the brain training or the neurofeedback that we use, we train the neurons to stop doing that and move towards normal and then they sleep better or they get rid of restless legs syndrome, stuff like that.

Stu:                  Is that a lengthy process of training or is it something that you can do quite quickly?

Jeff:                  The answer to that is yes. It depends on what modality that …

Stu:                  All of the above.

Jeff:                  Yeah. It’s like is it nature or is it nurture and scientifically, we know the answer to that is yes. It is both nature and nurture. To answer specifically your question, how long does it take, if we’re using neurofeedback only, then we find that it’s usually a four to five month process so when we’re working with sleep issues or attention deficit disorder or anxiety depression.

Neurofeedback has been around basically since the ‘60s [00:22:00] in working with that and now we’re coming into an era of energy-medicine integration and so we’re working a lot with stuff like that. Some of the research that we have been doing recently and seeing elements of the brain change very quickly. Meditation is another thing that people are able to change these elements to their brain.

I’ll give you an example of some of the things that we have done just in the way of research. We would find people … I had a person that we did an experiment with. She had a lot of that beta in the back of the brain, a lot of anxiety and stuff like that. We did a 30-day process with this person. Had her meditate for roughly 30 minutes a day doing … She would average that. Some days were longer meditation, some days were shorter, but as an average 30 minutes every day for 30 days and then we asked her to use what’s called a focused intention. She would at some point in her meditate … Well let me back up a little bit.

There is a process that Dr. Joe teaches about pulling energy up through the energy centers of the body, what we would call the chakras if you will. You pull this energy with this breathing technique up through your body and hold the energy there and then the energy is able to do things in your body. She would do maybe five or six of those breathing techniques before she started her meditation. Then at some point in her meditation she would use the intention. She would visualize the red areas in the back of her brain and we had her, just give her brain very simple instructions and that’s the intention. I would prefer the red to be green.

I didn’t say, okay, [00:24:00] I want to nucleus accumbens to do this and go in through the chiasm. It didn’t have to do that. Very simple instruction, I prefer the red to be green. We brain mapped her in 30 days later, after she had done that done that for 30 days and guess what, the red is green and her anxiety was reduced.

Stu:                  Do you … Sorry, guy, just one quickie. Do you support your techniques with any nutritional or supplements during this process?

Jeff:                  Absolutely. Nutrition is so vital in all of this. We’re starting to see where people are enhancing their internal capabilities. Let me come back to that particular issue but I need to lay some more groundwork. Guy looks like he’s going to explode if we don’t let him ask the question in.

Guy:                  The only point I was going to raise was, there’s a lot of people who might be suffering anxiety or monkey mind, can’t switch off. Actually to get them to sit down for even five minutes to just be still is a massive task. Because then the [crosstalk 00:25:16]

Jeff:                  That’s what I’m going to share with you, some other information. We just finished doing a six month-long project with a group called access consciousness. If people aren’t familiar with that, go google that and you’ll see that for 20 plus years they’ve been out there working with people in order to do a process called the bars.

Now I have never heard of this process called the bars. Again, I was doing my thing at Greg Reid and the Secret Knock and when I showed up and they are big fans of this and so Greg’s wife, Allen said, “Oh, oh you’re here. We got to connect you up with Gary and Dane and you’ve got [00:26:00] to do this brain map on the bars.” It’s like, “Okay, all right, yeah, that’s good, fine. I’ll do it.”

I’d never heard of that and so we did the brain maps on a few people that were having their bars run and then I was supposed to speak about it at 8:00 the next morning. Well, that’s kind of a dangerous proposition. Measuring something you’ve never measured before and then you’re going to get up on stage in front of 300 people and you’re going to talk about it, you know, when I’ve never heard of this thing.

By the time I get back to the hotel after dinner and stuff it was kind of late and I was tired. I need my full brain faculties to do that. We processed it and by 3 in the morning, I’m looking at this stuff and my jaw is just dropping. I’m going, whoa, brains of my world don’t do this. There is something up here. That’s when I measured it in a whole bunch of different ways, then got up and talked about it. I was just so excited. There’s a YouTube of me out there talking about that, that’s really amazing. From that we decided to do this full out, full blown study at a very high level and we’ve just gotten that.

This bars process they use acupressure so they put their fingers on the head and the acupressure causes the energy in the brain to begin to move and flow. Everybody has areas that get blocked but the energy is not flowing and that’s what slows down some of these process. Now as we look at energy medicine and energy healing and energy psychology, that’s the kind of stuff that we’re dealing with, we found that people’s energy align a great deal and some of these elements that we would see in their brain maps would disappear like in an hour and a half. [00:28:00] Now explain that to me.

When you’re talking about energy, that’s what’s going on in the brain. There’s a graphic that I use in a lot of my lectures and it’s called the thalamic gate. At the top of the thalamus and the brain is a little almond shaped thing right in the center of the brain and it regulates a lot of the frequencies that go on in our brain, in our body. At the top of the thalamus there’s a set of what’s called reticular cells. These reticular cells, a function of that is to allow cells to bind to the top of the thalamus so that other cells can then, like axonal columnar cells can develop out of that through the cortex up through from a subcortex into the thinking part of the brain and it comes out right here, the top center of our head which is basically the crown chakra.

What tends to happen here is that we look at energy in the field, in the morphogenetic field, the collective unconscious, whatever you want to call it. We call that oscillation. That energy is vibrating. We live in a vibrational universe and we are vibrational beings. This energy then comes down through the crown chakra, through the thalamic gate, gets into the thalamus and then it begins to resonate. That’s the energy in the cells of our body so there’s communication that goes on. When people have energy that is not flowing or that is blocked, that’s where we find that disease occurs. All disease is nothing more than disregulated energy. When you line the energy and the brain knows how to regulate itself then you get that regulation flowing then these conditions that we see, why is it that people that come to these events … one guy had a brain tumor and he’d been to two events and then he went [00:30:00] to have his brain scanned again at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston.

When they came back in to give him the results, they said we can find no trace of the tumor and they said, come back in a couple more intervals and they still couldn’t find it. Why people get rid of the affects of Parkinson’s disease? We’ve seen brain elements change to help brain injury. I worked with professional athletes, football players in particular, that have brain injuries and we’re seeing some amazing changes on that. We’re moving into a new era where it’s going to change the way we understand healing in the world.

Stu:                  I just had a thought that occurred to me when you were speaking about the energy and how it moves from the top of the head all the way down to the different states of the body. Can we disrupt that energy flow with modern day devices? For instance …

Jeff:                  Yes, actually that does happen. I was doing some work with a physicist, Yury Kronn, and we were looking at cellphone emissions. The interesting thing about the cellphone industry is that you have usually three or four transmitters in the phone and they only have to report the lowest emission from any four of those so the other three could be very high.

He has developed a process where he can infuse subtle energy into like a sticker and we measure this subtle energy in a lot of different components. When you look at subtle energy and what is subtle energy, it is the energy that is really … that commands of the universe. When you see these pictures of a galaxy [00:32:00] and the galaxy is spinning, what makes the galaxy move? It’s subtle energy. The universe is made up of total subtle energy.

One little demonstration that I do all the time is, and it’s sitting on the corner of my desk, is a Tesla globe where you put your fingers on that and you get all these sparks that are going on in there. If I take a CFL light bulb and I hold it away from the globe where the energy is, that light bulb with light up. What causes that to light up? It is subtle energy and so we are part of that energy field. You and I are connected through quantum entanglement. We are part of each other and so it’s that. I’ve always wondered how when you watch a flock of birds or a school of fish and they’re all going along and now all of a sudden they change direction. How do they do that?

Is it the lead fish goes I’m turning left now and shoosh, off they go? No, it is the vibration in the field. Now let me add something to that and that is, how do we create our own reality because that’s all part of this? Again, in a lot of my lectures I talk about your thoughts. If you have a thought whether it’s a wanted thought or an unwanted thought, it doesn’t matter, the principle is the same. If you have a thought and you hold that thought for 17 seconds and that thought has a vibration energy to it, the law of attraction says that other energy that is like that will be attracted to it. Thoughts begin to come in. If I’m having a negative thought, an unwanted thought and I keep thinking about it, that’s … I’ll give you an illustration here in a second but if you hold that for 17 seconds, 17 more seconds, 17, you get to 68 [00:34:00] seconds. It now has amassed enough energy through a principle that’s called constructive interference that amassed enough energy that it can now affect particle matter. That is how we create our own reality.

Whatever your intention, whatever you’re putting out there, let’s say for example, I’m driving down the highway and I’m in this energy field of content and happiness and love and joy and feeling good and some knucklehead cuts me off. Now I’m vibrating angry energy and I’ve dropped down here. If I’m holding that energy for 68 seconds and I go back to the office and I’m telling the people here, this guy cut me off and I got so angry, he doesn’t even belong on the road.

Now I’ve held it for several hours and I go home and my wife’s fixing dinner and she says, could you go to the store and pick up a few items for me? It’s like, yeah, okay, it gives me more time to think about this knucklehead. I go to the store, get three items and I pick up the three items and go up to the register. Now I’ve been doing this, vibrating this for several hours and I get up to the cash register and there’s a guy in front of me in the express line that has 38 items. Coincidence, not hardly. That’s the energy that I have attracted to myself and I start attracting and we start living these patterns over and over again depending on what we think about if we just understand the principle, if I start changing my thought patterns I will change what happens to me.

You talk to people who maybe have an intention, they want more money and so they’re thinking consciously, I want more money, I want more money, I want more money. They’re putting that in the field and maybe they have a subconscious belief that says you don’t deserve more money. That’s what actually being broadcast in the field and their energy is not lined up so they’re not attracting [00:36:00] the things that they actually desire. Then there are those people who can line that up and it’s like wow, their life is magic, and it’s because they had learned how to manage this energy, not only physiologically in their body but through the thought processes and how to interact with the universal field. That makes sense to you?

Guy:                  It does. That’s like the scientific version of [crosstalk 00:36:24] … Go on, Stu.

Stu:                  If I was to sum that up, would it be we really should try and think happy thoughts?

Jeff:                  In a perfect world that would be great but that’s not what really happens. Seventy-five percent of our thoughts are negative. I don’t know if you knew that or not but …

Guy:                  We’ve got a question right here because I read somewhere that we have over 50,000 thoughts a day.

Jeff:                  Well, it’s actually higher than that. It’s more like 600,000. It’s more like what you have consciously aware of.

Guy:                  Wow, and then the majority are repetitive and negative.

Jeff:                  Yeah and they’re playing all the time and they’re in your subconscious so how do those get there? A belief is nothing more than a thought that you have over and over again. As you keep having those thoughts, that becomes ingrained or implanted in your subconscious and those are the things … If you want to know what’s on your subsconscious mind, look at your behavior. If it’s like, whoa, I have this behavior I don’t like. Well, that’s probably what your subconscious is about.

Now we have a device, I sent it to the other room, but it’s a headband that when you put it on, it has four electrodes, two in the front and then two behind your ears. All you have to do is think about something and it will let you know what your subconscious perception of that is and also what your emotions are, whether you have positive or [00:38:00] negative emotion.

We use this a lot with a program that we’re doing with Midwestern University Medical University and working with veterans that have PTSD and traumatic brain injury, also first responders and professional athletes that have injury. We can help them see what that is and you can literally use this to help train your brain.

Are you familiar with Mind Movies? Have you ever heard of Mind Movies?

Guy:                  I’ve heard of it.

Jeff:                  Natalie Ledwell is one of the founders of Mind Movies and it’s like vision boards on steroids. When we set somebody up with one of these, we also set them up with a subscription to the Mind Movies so you can have your own pictures, sayings, your own video and create a mind movie so that like when I meditate I will watch my mind movie before I go into meditation and then after I come out.

We’ve got some scientific brain maps of people one of the first times that we encountered this. We do like … some of the people we measured at Dr. Joe’s events, we’ll do pre and post so before the event begins and then we measure them again afterwards and look at the changes in their brain. We’re doing one of these pre and post readings with this gal and seeing the EEG going all over the place just like oh-oh, what’s wrong with that. It must be a bad electrode or what. I’m fiddling with stuff and then afterwards, I got her out in the outside of the room there and asked her, I said, “Tell me about what was happening there,” and she says, “Oh, I was just thinking about my mind movie.”

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She wasn’t actually watching it, she was thinking about it and it was so real to her she was having that [00:40:00] experience while we were mapping her brain. Now we have literally thousands of those where we have measured people going through that process and so there’s a great deal of power and energy in the brain that happens when you are focusing on this. If a person wants to begin to train their brain, that’s why we now have these tools.

Another one that we’re working on is this guy right here. It’s a 16-channel that will allow people to do brain mapping and brain training from their smartphone, their tablet, or their computer anywhere in the world.

Stu:                  If I wanted to do that at home and let’s just say I ordered a rogue kit off the internet, could I potentially do more harm than good?

Jeff:                  Yeah.

Stu:                  I’m sitting there and I’m putting this thing on and all of a sudden, I wet my pants, I don’t know why.

Jeff:                  Or you start quacking like a duck. That could be a little unnerving. Anything that you can train you can untrain and that’s what we call neuroplasticy in the brain. With the training that we teach the brain, I mean you can train yourself with bad habits. You know anybody that has bad habits? Yeah, we all know people. How did they get the bad habits? They train themselves. Can they train themselves out of a bad habit?

Yeah. I don’t know that you would get to the point of putting one of these on and wetting your pants. Here’s what happens when we’re working with that. We create what’s called a protocol or a set of instructions of what we want the brain to do. Maybe this is improving memory or improving your sleep or something like that. There’s a set of instructions that we create for the [00:42:00] brain.

When you put one of these devices on and then you select the brain training side of the application, it’s then going to go into a learning mode. You select learning mode. Imagine that there is cube in a tunnel and it’s suspended in space and what you want that cube to do is you want it to rotate counterclockwise. That’s the event that we want to have happen. You put it in learning mode and you’re thinking about rotate counterclockwise, rotate counterclockwise, and then you could set up neutral where it’s not doing anything.

Then you go into … It takes about eight seconds for your brain to learn that. It records the brain patterns of what you’re doing and then when you select the training mode and you start thinking about, I want that cube to rotate so you’re focusing on the cube and all of a sudden it will start to rotate counterclockwise and then you can control it, go neutral and it will stop.

Now I want it to rotate the other way or I want it to go in and out of the tunnel or I want it to disappear. You can create all of those conditions. We have the ability now to measure things in the brain and put them into a practical application. That’s where we are in the technological field of learning how to train our brains where you can begin to understand, what are some of the subconscious patterns that I’m feeding my brain? How can I train it to do higher and better things? How can I create a better reality for myself? How can I sleep better? How can … you know?

Going back to your question about nutrition, if you’re feeding your body really crappie stuff, guess what you’re going to get? A bunch of blockages and it’s going to cause the cells to react in a certain way. Eating healthy, having good [00:44:00] supplements, there is good food and then there is not so good food. You don’t want to live on a diet of, pardon the commercial here, you don’t want to live on a diet of Twinkies, probably not going to help you. You need a little more protein than just those carbs there or the sugar, so having that balanced nutrition is going to make a big difference.

Much of what we were thought about nutrition, when I was growing up the pyramid and the food groups and all of that, we didn’t know any better and so …

Stu:                  No, we didn’t. We like to use the power of our brain in this company at least and we turn that pyramid by just sheer thought upside down, so all the good stuff’s at the top and all the bad stuff’s at the bottom.

Just thinking about, if I’m at home right now, we’ve got our listeners out there and they just want to be, they want to be the best person of themselves or the best version of themselves should I say. I’ve listened to what you said about the subconscious mind and the ability that we can have to change these thoughts and try and become happier. What can I do at home? Almost like a hack or practical tools that I can apply perhaps everyday without having access to machinery, services and the like. Is there anything that I can do? You touched on meditation before.

Jeff:                  Meditation is one of the best things that you can do and there’s a lot of different ways to meditate out there. Some may get you a little further along. I think since we worked with thousands of advanced meditators over the last three years, we’re beginning to understand more about that. There’s a process called [00:46:00] mindfulness and there’s some book out there about mindfulness and if you can start to live present in the moment, that’s one of the best things that you can do. Also, be aware of your thoughts.

Am I getting caught up in these thought loops or can I break that pattern and say, no, I don’t want to be thinking about that because I know what the effect of that is going to have so I’m going to think more about … and let me give you some additional information here. We talked earlier about the negative thoughts and it’s important that people understand that the contrast in the world is very important, the yin and the yang kind of thing.

When we have negative thoughts, that’s really helping us because we understand what it is we don’t want which then allows us to put our emphasis or our focus on what we do want but you’ve got to have the contrast in order to do that. The contrast gives us focus and if people understand that basic principle then when you start having these thoughts about what you don’t want in your life then step back and say, okay, if that’s what I don’t want, then what is it I do want?  Oh, this is what I do want.

Then you start putting that energy into that and that’s what’s going to be begin to materialize in the world.

Stu:                  I understand.

Guy:                  The first thing is for you to be aware.

Jeff:                  You don’t need a gadget to do that.

Guy:                  Nearly every person I speak to though, Jeff, and if meditation comes up in the topic, nearly every person I speak to are pretty much having struggle with it.

Jeff:                  They don’t know how to meditate.

Guy:                  And to sit down for even, like you said, five minutes. What would your tip be for that? Even just to go this is what you need to do for five minutes a day to start, whatever.

Jeff:                  It’s like training a dog. You want the dog to sit and stay. In the very first part, you have to teach the dog to sit, right? Put your butt down on the [00:48:00] floor here and then it’s like stay and then you walk a little ways away. Sit, stay, and then after doing that again and again and again and again, the dog finally gets the idea of sit and stay.

Your brain is no different than that. You get into a meditation and you get all of this stuff going on and it’s like teaching your brain, sit, stay. No, we don’t do that. Quiet, quiet, and if you could only hold it for five seconds, great then the next time hold it for 10 seconds, 20 seconds, a minute and that’s how people build up their ability and at the same time trying to understand, okay, that business in my brain, all of that information that’s going on, I want that to be quiet.

Give your brain simple instructions, I would prefer when I’m in this meditation so you’re getting down and you’re actually cycling between theta and alpha. Theta is a very creative state, alpha is what we call sensorial rest where you are alert, that you are aware of what’s going on. We teach people how to cycle between theta and alpha. As they do that over and over and over again, new dendrites form, new pathways develop and that’s then what fires. People can do that at home if they’re willing to put in the work. Some people say I can’t do it. Yeah, you got decades of your brain running wild so wild dog, horse, wild brain, same thing.

Guy:                  Is there an optimum time to do it?

Jeff:                  I’m sorry?

Guy:                  Is there an optimum time to do it like get up first thing in the morning or it doesn’t matter what time if you want to just …

Jeff:                  It doesn’t matter. You do it multiple times a day, the morning … I prefer to do mine in the morning because I’m better. When I get 9, [00:50:00] 10:00 at night, I’m like a NiCad battery, I just kind of and I’d sleep. Yeah, I’m done. I usually will get up 3:34 in the morning and meditate for two hours. I never could do that before.

My brain, talking about all this beta in the back of the brain, my brain was like that. I didn’t even know what quiet was until I trained that out of my brain and now I have the ability to be quiet for long periods of time and be able to experience the value of connecting with the universe to find out what I want to find out.

Stu:                  You mentioned, you touched before on supplementation to help your brain state. Would you recommend any particular supplementation?

Jeff:                  There’s the two key factors that will help, are melatonin and serotonin. You take a little bit of melatonin at night, that can help and the one thing that I think messes people up when they’re dealing with that is they think more is better. It’s like, well, I’m not getting the effect I want. Three milligrams is about the max you want to take, less is better.

If you’re still awake after 30 minutes, you’re not getting drowsy, then take a little bit less, take half of that and that will help. Serotonin should be taken in the day, that’s what’s going to help you perform better as you go along. You want antioxidants, fish oil and stuff like that. Paying attention to what your body needs. Now some people really should go to their physician and have their blood drawn and look, see if they have any deficiency in zinc or some of the minerals because this is about bringing [00:52:00] your body and your nutrition into alignment so that that’s the way you live everyday and staying in balances.

This is all about staying in balance about not only the energy in your body but help the cells of your body by eating right and exercising. It doesn’t take a lot.

Stu:                  That’s right. If you’re talking about drawing blood as well and looking for deficiencies, it might be worthy to run a hormone panel on your blood as well because your hormones are going to participate.

Jeff:                  Absolutely. You can have all kinds of things that are out of balance and so if people recognize, the key here is to get both my body, my brain aligned with energy so that I can interact with the energy field around me. Everybody has the ability for intuition and that’s one of the things we see in the brain mapping, people who are highly intuitive because they do exactly that. They care about their nutrition, they care about the bodies, they do what they need to do to sleep well, to meditate, to stay in balance, they know when they’re out of balance, what to do to get back in balance, how to get grounded, there’s all of those kinds of things.

Stu:                  Got it. To you what strategies do you personally implement yourself to stay on top of brain health?

Jeff:                  I eat a lot of Twinkies and chocolate.

Stu:                  Perfect, we’ll stop there.

Jeff:                  No. Actually, I listen to my body and it will tell me what it is that I need and so a lot of it is just some education, basic education, of nutrition and things like that. Now I’m getting older, I just turned 65 [00:54:00] this year and so testosterone tends to be an element. I take a supplement that I get at Costco that deals with testosterone supplementation so I’m not dragging myself around all day feeling tired and lethargic. That really helps and it also has a lot of the B vitamins, B6, B12, be healthy. That’s in there as well.

Those kinds of things are really helpful and at different stages of life you might need different things or different conditions depending on how far out of balance you are. I’m not on any kind of medication. The only thing I take are these supplements and they work well for me. Other supplements people might need but it’s about being aware. If you’re not aware of those things, go to a naturopath and have them give you some instruction on it.

Stu:                  Excellent.

Guy:                  Do you ever get stressed these days, Jeff?

Jeff:                  Everybody gets stressed and it’s not a question of whether you’re going to get stressed or not. It’s a question of what do you do about it when it does happen. What happens in your brain is when you get into a stressful mode, your brain starts to produce more cortisol and then your memory, you think your memory is going and stuff like that and it’s all … Again, it’s when I experience stress it’s usually because I’m not grounded so I know the process I need to do and I can do it within a matter of three or four minutes, go through this process, get grounded and then I can get back.

Some people don’t believe in this but I do because I experience it quite a lot with people that I work with that there are what I call energy vampires out there. If my energy is [00:56:00] up here and the vibration of that energy is love, contentment, joy, bliss, all of that and that’s where I live in that range, there are people who come in that are down here in the worry, anger, fear stuff, and they like to draw off that energy of people who are in that higher energy level.

Guy:                  They complain all the time.

Jeff:                  Yeah. If you’re around that for a while you feel depleted or that person leaves you and you go, wow, they just sucked the life right out of me. Well, yeah, exactly. You have to know how to get one that’s beginning to happen to you, how to get grounded, how to pull the energy in, how to coalesce the energy, not only from outside of us in the field but pull it up through the body and you can do that in a matter of a few minutes and you’re right back on and you’re charged.

Stu:                  We’ve spoken a lot about nutrition and strategies to improve the mindset, what about exercise? Because I have heard that exercise can be perhaps one of the greatest strategies when tackling depression for instance.

Jeff:                  Yeah. When you do that … Talking specifically about depression, very often in the front of the brain we’ll see a lot of alpha and that’s what we call familial depression. When you’re walking and that causes the endorphins to kick in, and up here in the left front part of the brain, that’s where our pleasure centers are so, even just walking, exercising, walking in a treadmill, whatever it is, it will get endorphins to fire and you’ll start to feel good.

Stu:                  Right, so really, get moving.

Jeff:                  Yeah. Get moving, get out there, get … It affects, the muscles get stronger, you’re able to … That is [00:58:00] very, very important. Again, we’re talking about balance. You can over exercise. For me to go out and train like some of the professional athletes that we work with, that’s not a good idea for me. For them, that works great because their body is in a fine tuned mechanism and just the littlest changes in their exercise can have big consequences in their performance, in their ability.

For me, if I don’t do anything, well, I’m just asking for trouble because the energy is not going to get regulated. I’m not going to get that flow of energy in my body and so it’s knowing really what exercise is going to do good for you and what you’re going to be good at. What you enjoy. I love to play racquetball. I don’t do much of that anymore just because I don’t have time. It’s not because I don’t love it but I’m very busy in the things that we do but I can get out and walk and so I do that.

Stu:                  Perfect. Excellent.

Guy:                  Yeah. Wow. I guess the take home message for today’s podcast is listening to your inner self, isn’t it and creating balance within the body to have the harmony and not be influenced by external factors.

Stu:                  Start small as well. Many of us have, we got busy lives, we got busy minds as a consequence of that but if, like you said, we can just take perhaps just five minutes out of our day just to try and quiet down the monkey in the mind. Spend a little bit of time working ourselves.

Guy:                  I like the dog analogy, that’s great.

Jeff:                  Yea and a lot of it is get some education. Find out what this is. If you want to know how to do that, start with mindfulness. Watch some of the videos that are out there and get some books, there are plenty of them, to know how to be present in the moment when you’re washing dishes or when you’re [01:00:00] at work, whatever it is that you’re doing. That will make a huge difference in helping train your mind day after day.

It’s like you can’t go do one pushup and say, okay, well, I’m fit now, I don’t have to do that again. It’s got to become a lifestyle. It’s going to be how much do you want to be in balance or do you like letting your brain run you instead of you running your brain. You create the reality that you want, so if you don’t like your life, then my advice is look at what you’re doing and how you’re doing it because you’re the one that’s creating it.

The only person that’s responsible for the life that you don’t like is you.

Guy:                  Yeah. That would be hard to hear for a lot of people, I reckon.

Jeff:                  It is. It was hard for me to learn that concept and then say, whoa, I’m the one responsible for that. No way. Those people think that life is happening to them rather than them creating it. We are creators. We are here to create, to learn how to create and when you begin to understand all of the universal laws and components that go along with that that we’ve talked about in this podcast, then you start to change your reality and life starts to get better, things start showing up.

I love to play this game with the universe when I go out somewhere and if my energy is aligned, I want that parking space so just as I’m puling in, somebody is pulling out or the space closes the door is empty. You probably all had that kind of experience. What if you could do that with intention? What if you could do that all the time? What if you could create all of the things that you want to attract whether it’s the love of your life or you want to attract more things? This is about learning how to command the laws of the universe. If [01:02:00] that’s what you want to do then that’s why you’re here.

Guy:                  Fantastic. I love the parking spot too. I often try that and it does work.

Stu:                  You’ve got a motor bike, Guy. It’s easier for you. You might think that you’re commanding this parking spot but there are just more little spots that bikes can slip into.

Guy:                  Rock star parking.

Stu:                  You’re cheating yourself.

Guy:                  I’m fully aware of the time, Jeff. We’re coming to the end of the show but we ask a question with every guest and that is, what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Jeff:                  The best piece of advice that I was ever given was I’ve had a mindset, a thought of the way that I was raised and the way a lot of people are raised is, you got to do more. I would take my boat down to the stream, not literally, this is figuratively, and put it in there and start paddling up stream, thinking harder and faster was the way to get where I wanted to go when really the best advice that I got was just stop paddling. Go with the flow.

I don’t have to turn my boat around. It will turn itself around and then I start going with the flow of the energy and that was the best advice that I ever received and really started me thinking about how I’m living my life.

Guy:                  Fantastic.

Stu:                  I like it, makes sense. Go with the flow.

Jeff:                  Go with the flow.

Guy:                  Yeah. Struggle is not there. If anyone is listening to this and they want to find out more about what you do, Jeff, where would be the best place to go?

Jeff:                  Website, we have a lot of information there, thoughtgenius.com. That’s a good place. I have a book coming out real soon. Help! My Thoughts Are Holding Hostage. You can go to the Voice America channel. I’m on the empowerment channel on voiceamerica.com and my radio show is the same name. There’s a bunch of this kind of information shows [01:04:00] out there, it’s free. All you have to do is log on there. You could get an app from the app store for Voice America and listen.

They have a bunch of channels on wellness and health and finance and I just happen to be on the empowerment channel with Help! My Thoughts Are Holding Me Hostage.

Guy:                  Fantastic. We’re linked to all the show notes anyway when we put this up in the new year. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time today. That was absolutely fascinating. I’m definitely going to relisten to this and take that information again.

Jeff:                  Thanks for having me on. You guys are awesome. I really appreciate it.

Stu:                  No problems. I really appreciate your time and hopefully, we’ll connect with you in the future.

Jeff:                  Absolutely. I’m happy to do this anytime with you guys, you’re fun.

Guy:                  Thanks, Jeff. Cheers.

Stu:                  Thank you very much.

Jeff:                  Bye-bye.

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Should We Use Fluoride In Our Toothpaste?

The above video is 2:37 minutes long.

Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

Guy: No doubt about it, there’s lots of debate with fluoride on the internet. So who better a person to ask than holistic dentist who has over thirty five years in the industry.

The big question is; Should we us toothpaste with fluoride in it?

We felt this would make a fantastic topic for this weeks 2 minute gem. We also discuss fluoride at length in the full interview below.

Dr Ron Ehrlich

Our fantastic guest this week is Dr Ron Ehrlich. He  is one of Australia’s leading holistic health advocates, educators, and a holistic dentist. For over 30 years he has explored the many connections between oral health and general health, and the impact of stress on our health and wellbeing.

He is also co-host of a weekly podcast “The Good Doctors”, currently ranked amongst the top health podcasts in Australia. Together The Good Doctors explore health, wellness and disease from a nutritional and environmental perspective, looking at food from soil to plate and exploring the many connections between mind and body.

Full Interview: Unravelling the Fluoride, Dairy, Mercury & Teeth Connection

In This Episode:

downloaditunesListen to Stitcher

  • Fluoride; should we avoid it?
  • Do mercury fillings effect our health?
  • The lessons learned from the legendary Weston.A.Price
  • Do we need to eat dairy for strong bones & teeth?
  • The best approach for long lasting teeth
  • And much much more…

Get More Of Dr Ron Ehrlich:

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Full Transcript

Guy: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition, and welcome to today’s health sessions. We have a fantastic episode for you in store today. Our guest is one of Australia’s leading holistic health advocates. He is an educator, a broadcaster, and a holistic dentist, and yes. We do tackle our topic today and get into that. He also has a fantastic podcast called The Good Doctors, and his name is Dr. Ron Ehrlich, and he has a wealth of information, and it was awesome to sit down with him for the last, I guess, 45, 50 minutes while he shares his wisdom with us.

We tackle some great topics we feel, fluoride being one of them, and this very debatable mercury fillings is another, dairy for strong bones, so we start delving into these things and what his conclusions have been after probably now, 35 years in the industry. I’m going to also talk about the legendary Weston A. Price who was a dentist back in the ’30s who uncovered some of phenomenal research as well. Awesome subjects, and yeah, you might look at the way you brush your teeth a little bit differently after this episode.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that we currently run two episodes a month generally now, and we interview a guest that we bring in, and [inaudible 00:01:17] discussed and then when we look into bringing in a third episode a month if we can fit it in. We really want to get this content out to you by just making sure we have the time, but what we’re looking at doing is a bit of a Q and A style kind of episodes where we want to answer the questions that we get coming in. If you have a question for us that you would like us to personally answer on the podcast, we will fit your question on there, and we can discuss it and topics at length, so it’d be great to get that feedback from you guys. Yeah, we’ll bring it into a third episode for a Q and A.

I really want to thank you guys for leaving the reviews as well. I’ll do ask often, but they’re fantastic. I thought I’d actually read one out. I’ve never done it before, but we do check every review that comes on. The latest one says, “Thought provoking,” by [inaudible 00:02:08]. I could read that slightly differently but I won’t. They say, “I don’t think there hasn’t been a single podcast where my jaw hasn’t hit the floor with some of the pills wisdom that have been shared. Keep them coming boys.” That is really appreciated honestly. That means a lot to us. Another review we had recently was, “Such informative podcast, five stars as well. I’ve started listening to Guy and Steve on walking and in the gym, so much more interesting than music. It feels like I’m learning while getting my daily exercise. Perfect.” Yeah. We are big advocates of doing two things at once. That’s for sure.
Look. I appreciate it. Keep those reviews coming. It’s like I said it helps our rankings and also, yeah. Keep an eye out as we bring in the third episode. Like I said, drop us an email at info@180nutrition.com.au and just mention the podcast, and we’ll take a look at tackling your questions or some. Let’s go over to Dr. Ron. Enjoy.

Hi. This is Guy Lawrence. I’m joined by Stuart Cooke as always. Hi, Stuart.

Stuart: Hello.

Guy: Our awesome guest today is Dr. Ron Ehrlich. Ron, welcome to the show.

Ron: Thanks guys. Lovely to be here.

Guy: I really appreciate having you on, mate. I seem to see your face popping up everywhere. There is a nutritional talk, a seminar on Facebook, social media, and even on podcasts. I thought it would be best for you to describe [inaudible 00:03:32] exactly what you do if you could share that with us first, because you seem to be man of many talents.

Ron: A man of many talents indeed but at the moment … What I really would describe myself is a health advocate. We’re an educator. I’m in the process of writing a book, so I’m soon I’m going to be to call myself an author, and I’m a dentist, a holistic dentist. There, a few different hats there.

Guy: It’s fantastic. Now, I remember seeing you talk quite a number of years ago. I think it was [inaudible 00:04:05]. I’ll jump in, and you walked on the stage and the first thing you said was you get asked all the time what the hell is a holistic dentist. Would you mind sharing out with us the [inaudible 00:04:17]?

Ron: Sure. Traditionally, dentists focus on the oral cavity. As a holistic dentist, what we focus on is the person attached to that oral cavity. That is a small point perhaps. It rolls off the tongue very easily but it’s a pretty important one because it then leads you into understanding what we’re looking at here is the gateway to the respiratory tract. If you think breathing is important which I think we’ll all agree it is, and sleeping well is important then this gateway is important as well. We’re also the gateway to the digestive tract, so chewing is an important first step in digestion. Getting this mechanism working well optimally is an important part of digestion. As well as that, there’s a huge amount of neurology in this area. Teeth is so sensitive that you could pick up 10 microns. A hair is 20 microns, so there’s a lot of sensitivity and neurology in this area. That’s going on and that leads us on to being involved with chronic headaches, and neck ache, jaw pain. It’s the site of the two most common infections known to man, woman, and child, tooth decay and gum disease, and almost every chronic disease is now seen as a reflection of chronic inflammation.

The big breakthrough was that people discovered that the mouth was connected to the rest of the body. No one knew that up until about 30 or 40 years ago, and that was a big, big breakthrough. Because of the decay, we implant a hell of a lot of material into people’s bodies, in fact, probably more than any other profession put together so all the other professions to put together. There’s a lot going on there and when you consider that this mouth is connected to a human being, with all those things going on, then that affects some of the decisions we make.

Guy: Right.

Stuart: Fantastic. You’ve touched upon a few topics there as well, Ron, that we want to want to delve into a little deeper down the track especially inflammation and chronic disease, things like that. We’ve got a few questions that we have to us for everybody, and they are largely hot topics in your area as well. First stop, fluoride. What’s your take on fluoride?

Ron: There’s no dentist present in this room, myself. The chance of me being stoned by someone is pretty low. It’s almost heresy for a dentist to discuss what are fluoridation in a negative sense. My take on it is this. Of the 140 or so elements there are in the world, 60 of them are required for the human body to function well, optimum. Stuff like calcium, magnesium, zinc … We could go on 60 of them. Fluoride is not one of them. Fluoride is not required for any normal biological, biochemical function, so if it’s not a required element, then it’s a medicine. If it’s a medicine, then it’s the only medicine that is put into the water supply without our individual permission. It doesn’t have regard to whether you’re a 2-month-old baby or you’re a 40-year-old building laborer who is 120 kilos or an 85-year-old woman who is 60 kilos or 50 kilos. There’s not a lot of nuance there in terms of exposure.

We’ve got a medication. There’s an ethical issue there about a medication added to the water supply which I have a serious concern about. Now going back to high school chemistry, fluoride belongs to the same family as the other halogens which are bromine, chlorine, iodine, and fluoride; therefore, halogens, right? We interviewed recently … We’ll talk about my podcast in a moment. I can’t resist getting it plugged in. Anyway, we interviewed a few months ago Professor [inaudible 00:08:23], who is talking about iodine deficiency and iodine is the biggest deficiency in the world. Two billion people in the world have iodine deficiency. Because it belongs to the same family as fluoride, chloride, iodine, fluoride, fluoride has the potential to compete with iodine for the thyroid, so it was used at the beginning of last century right up until the mid-century, mid 1900s as overactive thyroid.

When someone had an overactive thyroid, they gave them fluoride because they knew it would downscale the thyroid function. Here, if you … You guys may not take as many medical histories as I do, but as I get people coming through my surgery, many of your listeners may have been diagnosed with either underactive or overactive thyroid. It’s a huge problem in our society. I have some concerns about including something in the water supply that has the potential to affect thyroid function; that’s number one. In America interestingly enough which has been fluoridated since the 1940s or 1950s, since 1975, the incidence of thyroid cancer has gone up 160% since 1975. Is that to do with fluoride? No. I’m not saying that is. There are lots and lots of reasons why that might be the case, but that’s of concern to me.

Also Harvard University did the study … They did [mineral 00:09:53] analysis of about 30 different studies and there was some suggestion there that in fluoridated areas, IQ levels came down. There is some suggestion that it may affect bone in young men. This thing … Interestingly enough, of the 200 countries there are in the world, only about five of them, I think, it’s Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America and parts of England, they are the only ones that fluoridate. Are we saying that the rest of the world is just so ill-informed that they cannot make a sensible decision? I don’t think so. I think Scandinavia has a good history of looking at research and evidence, and there’s never been a randomized control study which is supposedly the GOLD standard about the effect of fluoride on tooth decay.

For example … I could show you a graph which showed really clearly that in those five countries, tooth decay has come down significantly over the last 30 or 40 years. You would look at it and you go, there it is. There’s proof that fluoride works, but if you go on to the UN side, the WHO side, World Health Authority, there is another graph which shows non-fluoridated countries, trending exactly the same way. What is this all about? A lot of reputation has been built on it. I know that’s true, but I have … In Europe, they do something called the … they have something called the precautionary principle. That is that if something has the potential to cause harm, why not best avoid it? I think that is definitely the better way to go because it’s a really good example of how we approach stuff in western medicine. You eat something that produces the plaque, and the plaque produces the acid, and then it makes a hole in your tooth. Therefore, let’s make the tooth harder. That’s what dentistry does, focusing just on here.

If you ask me, what is a holistic dentist, and I go, “Well, hang on.” This here is attached to the whole body. It’s got a thyroid, it’s got a brain, it’s got bones, it’s got nerves, and it’s got … We need to think about that and the precautionary principle is the one that I would endorse. To get rid of decay, it is far better to say if the hardest part of your body decays because of what you will imagine what’s going on with the rest of your body, why don’t we address what’s going on with the rest of your body and not only get rid of tooth decay, we might also get rid of a whole range of other chronic health conditions in the process.

Guy: You’ve triggered up so many questions already. I don’t know where to jump in.

Ron: In short, guys, I’m not in favor.

Stuart: Again, just to touch on this a little more, water supply aside as the ingredient in our everyday toothpaste, is that something that we should be weary of?

Ron: Now, there is some evidence to support a topical application of fluoride. We now practice use it very sparingly. I don’t personally use it in my toothpaste. I don’t personally apply it to every patient that comes through the door. If I see a tooth surface that is showing the early signs of tooth decay, just a bit of demineralization, then I will clean that surface and I might apply a fluoride varnish to that one surface and instruct my patient not to eat or drink for an hour. The rest of it is a great marketing ploy. I think there is some evidence to support topical application in a controlled way. I know you can make statistics look brilliant. You could say, “By using this toothpaste, we have reduced tooth decay by 30%.” That might be … Your chance of getting tooth decay was to have two surfaces of a tooth filled over five years, and by using this toothpaste, you’ve now got one third of the surface only required, so it’s playing with statistics.

Stuart: Totally. In a randomized study of two people, so [crosstalk 00:14:05].

Ron: I think there’s a place for very careful application of fluoride, but I don’t use it in toothpaste. We don’t use it as topical application in our practice, and we don’t … I personally don’t use it. We don’t recommend it for our patients.

Guy: Fantastic. That was what I was going to ask actually. To recap what you’ve commented on so far being a holistic dentist as well on fluoride and everything, the teeth … Would you be better off actually just changing your lifestyle and nutrition then as opposed to fixing the problem?

Ron: Absolutely. You guys and many of your listeners would be well aware of the work of Weston A. Price. He was a dentist. This is a really interesting story, but you probably haven’t interviewed Weston A. Price, but …

Guy: No. Please touch on it. Yeah, go for it.

Ron: Anyway, the point being, he in the 1920s and ’30s wanted to find out what caused tooth decay, so he went out and he visited traditional cultures around the world. He went to Malaysia, the Malaysian Peninsula, those specific islands, the New Hebrides, up in Scotland. He went to the Swiss isolated villages in the Swiss Alps. He went to Eskimos, he went North American Native Indians, the South American Native Indians. He visited all these different cultures, and what he found was something really unique. What he had was this amazing experiment could never be really repeated now. He had villages that were living on traditional foods and had done so for hundreds of years. What he observed in those villages were that none of them or very few of them had any tooth decay, whatsoever, but more importantly, they had enough room for all 32 of their teeth with some space even
behind the wisdom tooth.

They not only had enough room for their teeth, and we’ll talk about why that’s important in the moment, but they didn’t have any of the diseases of chronic degenerative disease.

They had no heart disease, no cancer, no rheumatoid arthritis, no diabetes, no obesity.

They were structurally, physically, very sound as well as being dentally healthy. What he then did was he talked … He went into the towns, and he looked at the same genetic group.

He really was doing in a way of controlled study, looking at the same genetic group and the one … The genetic group, the same tribe or family even that had moved into the city after 5 or 10 or very soon after a few years was displaying tooth decay, all of the degenerative diseases that are seen in modern civilization. From that, he wanted to determine what was it about traditional foods that was so unique and what was it about our western diet … Remember this was 1935, where people were only eating 12 kilos of sugar a year, now they’re eating … In Australia 45 kilos, in America 60 kilos to 70 kilos.

Put it in perspective here, he was looking at those people and they were healthy. He took food samples from there and he brought them back, and he analyzed them. He found there were three things they all had in common, the traditional diets. Now, they weren’t all Paleo. They weren’t all on Paleo. They were up in Eskimo land. In Alaska, they were on fish and blubber, and da, da, da. In New Hebrides, they were on oats and some seafood, and seasonal fruits, and in the Polynesia, they were on seafood, and they were on some fruits and some root vegetables, all different types of things. They weren’t all along Paleo, but what they all had in common was the traditional diets all were nutrient dense. They had 10 times the amount of water soluble vitamins that may … They likely the … and minerals and they were four times higher in fat soluble vitamins.

You need fat soluble vitamins to incorporate the minerals into your body. They had that and the interesting thing was the best source of these fat soluble vitamins which are A, D, K, E was animal fats that had been grown on pastured lands in traditional ways. This was a fabulous study done in 1935, and I’m about to give a presentation on Friday where I’ve actually done a little bit of a cut and splice of the catalyst program that was on the beginning of this year, so an ABC program in Australia, Catalyst, and it was on gut reaction. One of the senior professors of research at Monash University said, “You know what? There’s this huge breakthrough that’s occurring. It seems that what we eat could be affecting heart disease, cancer, diabetes, obesity, and a whole range of other things.” He was saying it like this was an amazing breakthrough, and if we were careful about what we ate, we could actually extend our life by years if not decades.

Stuart: I don’t believe a word of it. Just advertising. It’s just advertising.

Ron: The beauty of that is if you look at that, and you listened to what you would think, “Oh, my God.” Like, “What is going on?” If this is the breakthrough to the medical community in 2015, this is why we’re in the [inaudible 00:19:34] because you can press the rewind button to a lovely little segment of Weston A. Price where he himself taught and says pretty much the same thing in 1935, so it suddenly taken us 80 years to get on top.

Stuart: It’s so tricky as well, isn’t it? You realized that there is such huge power in even these beautiful and yet nutrient dense foods, but then if you were to take that group who were truly thriving and pull them over perhaps with the same diet, but surround them in the conditions that we have today with email, and stress, and pollution, and the rat race, I wonder how they would feel whether that would have a …

Ron: It’s a good point, Stuart. It’s a good point because one of the things … Stress has been of an interest to me over the last 35 years. In fact, today’s rather that would feel [inaudible 00:20:26] guys. I’m sharing this with you. Today is the 35th anniversary of my practice in the city of Sydney, but that’s another story, but for the last 33 years, the model of stress that I have used, the model of health that I have used in my practice is that our health is affected by stress. I define that stress as a combination of emotional, environmental, postural or structural, nutritional, and dental stress. Those five stresses and people say, “What’s dental stress? You’ve just pulled that out of the hat because you’re a dentist.” I’ve just defined for you what a holistic dentist is. Respiratory tract, digestive tract, chronic inflammation, nerve damage, chronic pain, all these materials that we use.
Dental stress is an important thing that’s often overlooked, but they are the five stresses, so what you’re saying is absolutely true. You could be on the best diet in the world, but if you are in overload, stress, the fight-and-flight mode that many of us, in most of their [inaudible 00:21:29], and you are not going to be absorbing those nutrients absolutely right.

Guy: What I noticed myself … I can us myself as an example because I don’t think a lot of us even appreciate that we’re in the stressful mode. We just assume it’s normal from our day-to-day actions. I went to Mexico a couple of weeks ago, and I was actually meditating four days on and off in a workshop, but I didn’t realize how stressed I was until I got there and then slowly started the wrong way. By the end of it, I got, “Oh, my God, I feel like a different person.” I’ve been carrying that for weeks or months prior to it. It’s amazing.

Ron: Go ahead, Stuart. Sorry.

Stuart: I’m just going to say, can you imagine my stress as Guy is away in Mexico meditating, carrying the business and raising a family, so it works well for both of us, isn’t it, Guy?

Guy: It was fabulous.

Stuart: Right.

Ron: Meditation is another. It’s the big one, isn’t it? It’s just such an important part of being healthy in this day and age. I think you should not be without it.

Guy: There you go. Yeah. I’m certainly exploring it and I’m enjoying the process. You can look then along the way, but …

Ron: Stuart, you look like you’re about to say something.

Stuart: I do. I’m going to bring it back on track to the dental route as well. I’ve got another million-dollar question for you. Guy and myself, we’re children of the ’70s and the ’80s. We’re anything. We always had mouthfuls of sweets and pop and fizzy drink and didn’t really care about too much. We’ve got fillings in our mouths; most of our friends have at this age. Should we be concerned about these fillings particularly if they are mercury amalgam?

Ron: Yeah, I think you should. See, the interesting thing is that it’s mercury. I’ll have to explain. The silver fillings in people’s mouth what it used to be called silver amalgam fillings euphemistically, half of it is mercury and the other half silver, tin, zinc, and copper, so it’s an amalgamation of silver, tin, zinc, and copper, mixed up with liquid mercury. That when you plug into a tooth, within an hour goes hard, and within 24 hour goes much harder. It’s a cheap, it’s been used for 170 years in dentistry, and nowadays, if I … I haven’t done an amalgam filling for almost 30 years, but if your dentist who you might ask this question or say, “Should I be worried about amalgam? ” “No. Don’t worry about it. It’s perfectly safe.” Okay. Let me ask you this question. When you’ve done a mercury amalgam filling on your patient, and you’ve got a little bit left over, what do you with the scrap?
I know it’s a rhetorical question, it’s a trick question, but people should ask it of their dentist because the answer is this, it’s against the law for you to put that scrap into the toilet, the garbage, or down the sink. That scrap has to be disposed off as toxic waste.

However, through some twist of faith, it’s perfectly … The only safe place to put this toxic material is in the mouth of a human being. I don’t know whether … To me, that defies logic.

Guy: It’s like the world has gone mad.

Ron: It’s the mercury, but time … The question then goes because when I was placing mercury amalgams in the late ’70s and up to about 1981 or 1982, I was parroting what the university told me and that’s was, “It’s locked in. It doesn’t escape.” A chiropractor who is referring me patients at that time said to me, “Ron, it does escape. Read this literature.” I said, “Okay. I’ll read it. I’ll read it.” I read it and I couldn’t believe it, so I took … There was a piece of patient came in, a bit of old filling had fallen out, so from the records, it’d had been six or seven years earlier, so I sent it off to the Australian Analytical Laboratory to have it tested. It came back 40% mercury, and it had gone 50% mercury. I thought, “Oh, my God.” Hang on.

Guy: [crosstalk 00:25:55].

Ron: I don’t believe this. I don’t believe it. I repeated that with about four other samples and they all came back 37%, 43%, 39%, 41%. Clearly, mercury was escaping and when it escapes, it gets stored in the kidneys, the liver and the brain, so doing a blood test does not tell you whether you’ve got mercury toxicity or not. It is an issue. It’s one that is very difficult for the profession to grapple with and again it goes back to what’s the difference doing a holistic dentist and a normal dentists? If all your focus is here, and you’re trying to restore a tooth as best as you can, as economically as you can, then mercury amalgam is a great filling material. There’s only one problem, and the problem is that tooth is attached to a human being. Apart from it, perfectly fine.

Guy: If you got mercury fillings, is it quite a procedure to change them?

Ron: Look. It’s not rocket science but it seems to … There is some precautions that one should definitely take. You are better off leaving it in your mouth. Obviously, if there’s decay in there, you don’t leave it in your mouth, but if you’re having it removed because you’re wanting mercury removed from your body, then you need to take a few precautions, and in our practice, the precautions that we take are we use a rubber dam which is a shape of rubber that acts like a diaphragm. We punch a hole in that and the tooth or teeth that we’re working on pokes through, so it forms a barrier so that it protects the airway. We also give people a nose piece, because as soon as I put my drill on to a mercury filling, I create a vapor which your nose is very close to, so I don’t want you to be inhaling mercury vapor. We also use a lot of water to dampen down the vapor for us. We also use high-speed suction to avoid the exposure for us and the patient. We move it in a certain way, so we can flick it out rather than grinding out because that creates more vapor. In our practice, we have air purifiers and negative ion generators to help us deal with that as a OHS.

Guy: Cool. Sure.

Ron: There are some precautions, you should not have it just removed. It does raise the issue of mercury … It raises a really important issue and that is dental materials in general. I was attending a course last year from a professor from the Karolinska Institute in Sweden which is very big on Toxicology, and introduced me to this idea of metal-induced chronic inflammation. By being exposed to metal, on a 24/7 basis, the potential for your body to react by then going into chronic inflammation is there, so in our practice, we’re try and avoid metal as much as we can, and we can pretty well do that. There are some issues around dental materials that need to be considered carefully, but mercury for us has been a no-no for almost 30 years, and whether you’re removing a small filling or a whole mouth, you do it carefully and you support the person. Usually, we work with the person’s naturopath or nutritionist outside.

Stuart: If for instance, I did have a filling, a mercury filling, but I went to the trouble of getting a heavy metal analysis test. Maybe a hair testing kit, and I didn’t have any issues with mercury, happy just to go along and not really pay too much attention to it?

Ron: In our practice is in the city of Sydney, it’s called Holistic Dental Centre. There’s another plug, but anyway … The point about it is that we do not take a dogmatic approach to things to alter it. In a way, I envy those that do, that say, “All amalgam fillings should come out. All root canal teeth should come out. All these, all that.” We’re not dogmatic like that. I think there are two separate issues here. One is should we still be using the material? To me, the answer is definitely no. There is no excuse for using that material in today’s dental world. That’s number one. The second issue is should everyone be having every filling out? The answer is maybe, maybe not. We need to consider each one individually, each person individually. If for example, you were in excellent health however we define that. Of course, you got to be thinking about physical, emotional, mental, all these different …

Stuart: Dental.

Ron: Dental. All those different aspects of health, however we define excellent health. If you were in excellent health, and you’re sleeping well, and you’ve got good digestive, all the functions are going well, and … Hey, I don’t lose any sleep over the fact that when that filling needs to be removed, it should be removed, but when it is removed, it should be done carefully.

Stuart: Right. Got it.

Ron: Hair analysis is a gauge. It’s reasonable indicator. I remember I said mercury is stored in the kidney, the liver and the brain, it’s stored in fat tissues, so to get a proper analysis of what mercury load you have, you need to do a heavy metal … A challenge if you like, so you can take a chelating agent. People are exposed to heavy metals. Say you swallowed lead or something. The way that get that out of your body is by using what’s called the chelating agent. An example of that is something called DMSA. You could take DMSA and for you … Firstly, you would measure your urine before, and you’d have a really low level of mercury in your urine or your blood. It’s not a good measure. It doesn’t float around there, but then you take a couple of capsules of DMSA, and then you retest three, four or six hours later, and you collect the urine or a blood, and then you measure the before and the after. What you’ve done is you’ve dragged the mercury out of the organs and you deposited it in the …

Guy: In the urine.

Ron: … urine hence, to be excreted. That’s a more accurate way of determining it, but as I said, we’re not dogmatic about it. We’re very careful. I have some patients that have come to me from all over the place that they’ve had their amalgams removed in two or three sessions, and I’ve had other patients that have taken 10 or 15 years.

Stuart: Okay, got it.

Guy: Great answer.

Stuart: It’s good to know.

Guy: Another question, Ron on dentistry, and it’s a hot topic that will come up all the time for us is dairy consumption. Is this a key to strong teeth and bones?

Ron: Look. One of the things that I’m also very interested in is why public health messages are so confusing and contradicting. You only have to look at who is sponsoring some of the major professional organizations like the Dairy Corporation is a major sponsor of every professional, nutritional organization as well as the Asthma Council as well as … You name it. The Dairy Council are offering some sponsorship. That is, I think, clouds over some of the issues. I think there is some place for dairy, perhaps in a cultured dairy sense. If the dairy is grass fed, that’s a different story as well as opposed to being grained fed, but it’s certainly not an essential requirement for healthy teeth. No. I think fat-soluble vitamins are and within dairy … There are some fat-soluble vitamins, but there are some other issues that go with them. When we pasteurize and homogenize milk, we remove a lot of the enzymes that help us cope with the proteins in the milk, the casein and that is a common allergy that people and food sensitivity that people have.

I think what’s important is that you have … For strong healthy teeth, from the moment of conception … You get this from the moment of conception. In fact, probably for a good year or two, prior to conception, both male and female, to be eating a nutrient-dense diet that is high in vitamins, fat soluble and minerals, fat-soluble vitamins, and has a really broad range of vegetables and good fats and moderate amount of protein … I could go on about what it is, but it is not dairy. Dairy is not the essential [inaudible 00:34:53].

Guy: I appreciate it. You say fat-soluble vitamins, right? Yet, we’ve been told not to eat for God knows how many years as well to digest the vitamins that are fat soluble.

Ron: It’s actually set us up for the perfect storm. We’ve had the food pyramid which is food grains at the bottom, and avoid fats. We’ve had the low-fat dogma coming to us via [inaudible 00:35:18] and every heart foundation and every pharmaceutical company in the world because that’s something that doctors can measure. They can measure cholesterol, and they can give you a drug to lower cholesterol, so it makes them feel like they’re doing something. We’ve had the food pyramid and we’ve had the low-fat dogma, and we still have heart disease, number one. Cancer, number two, one in two male, one in three women. We will get cancer by the time they are 65. We’ve got autoimmune disease, it’s going to the roof. There are over 200 autoimmune diseases. By autoimmune, we mean Crohn’s, irritable bowel, thyroid function, rheumatoid arthritis, Parkinson’s, et cetera, et cetera. Then we’ve got diabetes and obesity. How is that food pyramid and low fat diet been working for us over the last 40 or 50 years? Not all that good.

Guy: [inaudible 00:36:13].

Stuart: You touched … You mentioned it like a certain type of dairy and you’re also touching on upon the importance of fat-soluble vitamins as well which led me to think of reminineralization. Are we able, through diet and all of these key nutrients, or be it in a different dairy from fats, whatever, great foods, can we assist our teeth in remineralizing themselves?

Ron: I think the answer to that is yes, up to a point.

Guy: Can you explain the remineralization [crosstalk 00:36:50]?

Ron: Let me just explain what demineralization [crosstalk 00:36:52].

Guy: Okay. Perfect.

Ron: Let’s start what’s the beginning of the problem. A tooth is covered by enamel which is really hard. Underneath enamel is dentin which is considerably softer, and underneath the dentin is the nerve and the tooth, right? [inaudible 00:37:08] on a tooth. Now, within the mouth, there are at least 500 different species of microorganisms that we know of, and they live in perfect harmony. There’s a struggle like the rest of the world, the struggle between good and evil in the mouth as a symbol of struggle that goes on a daily basis between good and evil. If you are eating a good diet, then the good bacteria, just as they are in the gut proliferate, and you enjoy good health. If you’re eating a poor diet which is sugar, refined carbohydrates, grains which often break down into carbohydrate and sugar which breakdown into sugars very quickly, then you have a lot of sugar substrate for the bad bacteria to proliferate. You’re like any living organism that eats, it’s got to excrete. It’s got to go to the toilet. What did it excrete is an acid. The tooth is made up of calcium and phosphate, crystals, and so it starts to demineralize the tooth.

That shows up as little whitish spot on the tooth surface first, then it becomes a brownish spot and then it starts to undermine the softer dentin under the enamel, and then one day, you bite into something, and suddenly, out of the blue, you’ve got a hole. It’s been going on there for a while. Now, if you have the early stage of demineralization where you just got this early stage of decay, white spot, or even maybe the brown spot is starting and you eliminated all those substrates that fed the bad bacteria, and you ate a nutrient-dense diet which we’ve already talked about, then there is the chance to arrest decay and stop mineralization and remineralize the tooth. There are some products that [purport 00:38:54] to assist that. One of those products is called Tooth Mousse.
Tooth Mousse is a dairy product derivative and it’s a bio-available calcium and phosphate.

We do use some of that in our practice. I think the issue of mineralization, remineralization is a really important one, and then you get on to the topic of drinks, and water, and sports drinks, and carbonated drinks, and the alcohol, and the acidity of those drinks, you’re pushing up against it. I had somebody coming in to see me the other day who was complaining about sensitivity around the neck of the tooth. This was around 12 o’clock in the morning, and they told me, I said, “What did you have for … What are you eating?” They go, “Oh no. I’m on a really good diet.” “I started today with fruit juice. I have a big glass of orange juice and a big bowl of fruit, and then I have some muesli or some cereal with some milk. I’ve got low-fat milk. I don’t want to get … You know, I don’t want to be unwell, so I’m going to have low-fat milk.”

The Heart Foundation [text 00:40:00] going there and then she comes in to see me with iced tea. [crosstalk 00:40:05]. I calculated for her, and it was only 11 o’clock in the morning, but she’d already had the equivalent of about 27 teaspoons of sugar, and it was on the 11 o’clock in the morning. Really, what we are up against is dairy is not answer, remineralization is definitely possible. You need to consider the food that you’re eating and the drinks that you’re drinking.

Guy: [crosstalk 00:40:30].

Stuart: It’s so sad because that lady would have thought that she is doing the best that she can based upon the information that she is receiving from the supermarkets, from the government, from pretty much everybody in her circle.
Ron: I’m really … One of the things I’ve come to realize is we’ve got a real problem with our health system. In terms of crisis therapy, there is no better place to be. The level of ingenuity, of skill, of intelligence, of equipment that’s available to deal with a crisis, analysis on the medical health crisis is phenomenal. A friend of mine had a 1-week-old baby, open heart surgery for a heart defect. My 89-year-old mother had a new aortic valve replaced. What they can do is amazing. Crisis therapy, tick that box, brilliant. What’s wrong with the healthcare system is that it’s really not a healthcare system. It’s become a chronic disease management system. Really, between chronic disease management and crisis, it’s a great economic model. It generates billions, literally billions of dollars of profit for the processed in pharmaceutical industry, and for the health industry. I reap … I don’t reap billions of dollars sadly, but dentistry is a product of western diet.

Guy: Culture, yeah.

Ron: If I was a dentist in the Swiss Alps village, I wouldn’t be having a very busy time, so we have a chronic disease management system and that’s got to change. It’s unsustainable financially, the human cost, the loss of human potential is enormous.

Guy: Do you think people are being more proactive?

Ron: Definitely. I think there’s two schools … Actually, Guy, that’s a really interesting … but I think that’s a rising tide. I think there are two schools of thought out there at the moment. One is total faith in the Western health model like, all I need to know is my doctor’s phone number. Apart from that, I’m going to be fine. I’ve got health insurance and my doctor’s phone number always work. They’ll just tell me what medication I need, if I need surgery, so be it. It’s all there for me. There’s the other group that says, “Wait a minute. I know that’s there for me, but I don’t want to get it.” They are becoming far more proactive in their life. I think that’s a rising … That’s a definitely a rising tide.

Guy: I was going to add as well even just for the [inaudible 00:43:08] podcast and blogs and things that are popping up the message and from the growth of our podcast over the last years, people are definitely at least hungry for information, and trying to get it out there for people to proactively change.

Ron: I’d agree with that.

Stuart: I did have a question when we were talking about the remineralization and you touched upon the oral microbiome, and I listened to a great podcast a couple of weeks ago all about that very topic. My question to you is mouthwash. Does that affect the oral microbiome because they were saying that it did at the time, and so I just thought we’d ask the expert.

Ron: Were they saying it did in the positive way or negative way.

Stuart: A negative way.

Ron: Absolutely. That whole issue of bad breath for example is a classic example of … It’s such an interesting topic. I could talk to you for half an hour and an hour on bad breath but basically, there are medical reasons why you have bad breath. It’s dental and medical reasons, and yet it is a 10-billion dollar industry of mouthwashes, breath fresheners, da, da, da, da, da. You name it and most of them are totally ineffective and do not address the root cause of the issue which is the same as tooth decay or bad gut biome or bad oral biome, gut biome. The same diet that promotes a healthy gut biome, guess what? It promotes a healthy oral biome as well. That product that you buy … If you have an infection or you’re dealing with something on a short-term basis, maybe we use a herbal mouth rinse, tincture of calendula which is very effective in a short term, but I wouldn’t recommend that for more than a couple of days for any patient. I certainly recommend a mouth rinse on a regular basis.

Guy: Great. Great questions then.

Stuart: It’s interesting. The microbiome in the gut health now is so huge. You see the next breakthrough but many of us don’t even think that it starts in the mouth, and we’re drinking sodas with all these crazy acids, very harsh mouthwashes and rinses or manner of foods that we put in there would have to have an effect at some point I would imagine.
Ron: Look. Like I said, the two most common infections known to man, woman, or child is tooth decay and gum disease. That only arises through an imbalance of the microbiome in your mouth. If that happens there, why on earth wouldn’t it happened anywhere else in the body and it certainly does. That’s what Weston A. Price found out, big breakthrough in 1935. It’s just taking a little while for the [ballot 00:46:05] to arrive.

Guy: [crosstalk 00:46:06].

Ron: He posted a letter 80 years ago, and it’s only arrived on our shores recently.

Guy: That’s amazing.

Stuart: [crosstalk 00:46:14].

Guy: What does a holistic dentist to do with the care for his teeth?

Ron: I try to eat a good diet. Listen, I work on an 80/20 principle, 90/10. If I get to 90/10, I am saintly. I’m very proud of myself. I’d like to think that throughout, most of my … All my week, I’m on an 80/20 basis. You’ve got to work out what percentage is right for you. Some people think 50/50 is pretty good, and to me, that’s ridiculous; 60/40 doesn’t cut it; 70/30 is not going to make that big a difference; maybe 20 is the bottom line; 90/10 is what I do, and if I was 100% or I’d be a social outcast and known whatever [inaudible 00:47:03]. I think you’ve got to cut yourself a little of slack here because you end up getting so stressed out about what you’re reading, that it becomes pathological in itself, but essentially, the basis of my diet is I eat … The majority of my diet, I’m trying to make vegetables of varying colors, as many colors as I can. I try to keep low-ish carb and by carb level, I mean around 70 gram to 80 grams of carb a day is achievable and if people want to know what that is, I would suggest to get a carb counter and spend a week looking and weighing everything you do.

You don’t have to do it for the rest of your life. You’re just going to do it for a week or two to start getting your head around it. I would try … I had moderate amount of quality pasture fed, preferably organic protein, and by moderate I mean … We’re talking about … For me, who is 80 kilos, I wouldn’t want to be eating more than about 60 grams of protein a day. An egg has got 7 grams of protein, so if I have two eggs in the morning, there’s 14 grams, and a 200-gram piece of steak would have 66 grams right there and then. We eat too much protein. There’s no doubt about it. We eat too much meat, and we eat too much meat for two things. Problems with that is, one, for our own health, it’s not good, and two from a sustainability and planetary point of view, I don’t think it’s good. The other thing is good fats. By good fats, I would include butter, olive oil, avocado, coconut oil. I do most of the cooking at home, coconut oil. I indulge myself with some roasted vegetables and duck fat occasionally.

Then I have clean water. I actually purify my water. I have a reverse osmosis filter which removes everything and then I might add a couple of grains of Himalayan or Celtic sea salt. If I can taste it, I put too much in. If you have salts, I use either those salts, Celtic sea salt or Himalayan rock salt which have 60 trace elements in them, and I have moderate amount of seasonal fruit. I restrict my fruit intake, but I do have seasonal fruit and I do have some apples, bananas, berries, preferably organic. They’re very high in pesticides, strawberries and blueberries. Then sea food, moderate amount of sea food. I’m very careful with sea food. The best sea food is I think sardines. A lot of the other … The bigger fish, I wouldn’t touch.

Guy: From the mercury perspective or …

Ron: From a mercury sustain … There’s two issues about seafood. One is sustainability. We have raped and pillaged sea, and we’ve now reduced to up to 90% of its fish stocks over the last 20 or 30 years, so that’s a bit of a problem. The toxicity issue is inescapable, and the higher up the food chain you go, so the big fish are our problem. Then you go to farm fish, and I don’t really want to touch farm fish either because the farm fish are not in a natural environment. They often eat trash fish, so when they scour the ocean, they use big nets and that will take out the fish that can be sold at the fish market, but they have a huge amount of what’s called trash fish which were either too small to eat or a bottom feeders, and so they end up getting milled up to fish meal or they might … I just think farm fishing is not a good … I think sardines are the best alternative, calamari, okay. I don’t eat much. I don’t eat much seafood. It’s overrated.

Stuart: How would you move? What would you do? Are you a marathon runner or are you a crossfit aficionado?

Ron: I’m a functional movement aficionado.

Stuart: Right.

Ron: No. Really, I am. For the last … One of the most liberating things I’ve learned is that if you did 10 minutes or 20 minutes of interval training, high intensity interval training, then your metabolism is up for 24 to 48 hours. If you did a 10-kilometer run, your metabolism would be up for six to eight hours, so you don’t have to do that much to make a difference. For many years, I have attended a fabulous gym. I think he is one of the best trainers in Australia, Origin of Energy in Bondi Junction in Sydney, and Aaron McKenzie is into functional movements. It’s bending, twisting, turning, lunging, reaching, extending, flexing, doing all those movements that we do in everyday life and incorporating them into a workout, and then also focusing on the core. I have tried to do that three or four times a week, and I also do some stairs, high-intensity cardio but only over a short period, and so I don’t … I’m not a runner.

I think people run for various reasons. It’s very meditative. It’s not just the health thing people go out for long runs, but it’s not a really good thing for you. It’s not good for your joints. It’s not good for you. It’s not necessarily a good thing. That’s the first thing. The other thing is I try to wear a pedometer because you could work out for 30 minutes or an hour a day, but you’re sedentary for the 23 hours, and that’s a good thing either. In my surgery, I actually have measured that in a working day, I would walk about 6,000 steps just backwards and forwards from patient, around from where I parked my car to where my surgery is and back again, and to and from. I try and incorporate movement. Every morning, when I wake up in the morning, I do some yoga. I usually do the Salute to the Sun, a few rounds of that. If you’re wanting to do an all-around exercise, that is brilliant. Salute to the Sun, a couple of rounds of that in the morning really gets you going, so yeah. Movement is important.

Guy: A lot of people just don’t move. That’s another thing and another topic but nice to hear you do. I’ve been bringing in yoga to my weekly routine, and I’ve been trying to get

Stu there but he’s not prepared to [inaudible 00:53:46] and come down.

Stuart: Yeah. One day, Guy.

Guy: I’m aware of time. It’s going on a little bit, Ron, and I’d love for you to just talk a little bit about your podcast just to let the listeners know that you’re a podcast to Good Doctors, is that right?

Ron: We do.

Guy: I know Stu has become a fan. He’s been listening to a lot of it lately.

Stuart: I have. I’m loving it.

Ron: Yeah, good. It’s been going for a couple of years now actually, and my co-host, that it’s called The Good Doctors, Health Care Unplugged. Each week we explore. Here comes the introductions too. Each week we … no. Each week we do, we explore health wellness and disease from a nutritional and environmental perspective and we look at food from soil to plate and we look at the connections between mind and body, and we do that because they’re all connected. We really are talking about alternative medicine, we’re talking about good medicine, and my co-host in that is a fabulous doctor in the Mornington Peninsula, integrative holistic GP called Michelle Woolhouse. I personally … we’re up to episode 170, I think, and we do Healthy Bytes which very … Sometimes we interview people, sometimes we have a Healthy Byte which varies from 5 minutes to 20 minutes, and we’re just starting to do book reviews, but I have personally learned so much.
Each week, I get to pretend, and it’s not much of a stretch for me, but I get to pretend that I don’t know everything. I get to ask either our guests or Michelle something, and I’ve learnt so much from that, so it’s a great show. We’re starting to take it little more seriously. We’re going to do some live events next year. It’s going to be really good. It’s a really exciting project. It’s one we both really enjoy.

Guy: Fantastic.

Stuart: Fantastic. If we wanted to connect to The Good Doctors, the best way to do it?

Ron: iTunes or you could go on to our web page which is thegooddoctors.com.au, and we’ve got a Facebook page, we got a lot of information going out. We’re just about to publish an ebook on what is good health, and we’re about to do a whole series of varying programs. We did a fertility series, we’re doing a cardio series, a cancer series, so there’s a lot exciting things happening there next year.

Guy: Brilliant.

Stuart: Fantastic.

Guy: I think you’re right. Since we’ve been podcasting, I’ve learned so much. I find it a privilege. We have guests on like yourself, and we currently do them [inaudible 00:56:18] interview, but the absolute variety of knowledge that you exposed to, it’s awesome.

Ron: I’ve started a second podcast as well.

Guy: Have you?

Ron: I have on through my surgery, but it’s called Holistic Health Conversations. It’s where I interview practitioners that we work with around Australia or around Sydney, and also internationally who have a holistic approach to healthcare. That’s starting up in the next couple of weeks as well from our surgery web page.

Guy: Well done. Fantastic. There you go. Ron, just to wrap up, we have a question we ask everyone on the podcast every week. Nothing too technical, but what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Ron: I think the best piece of advice I’ve ever been given … The best lesson I’ve learned is to take control of yourself and keep an open mind because we love certainly, and if you’re going to change your health, there are two things that are important in change, any change. The first one is to accept control. It’s called locus of control. Do I have the control over my health? I know I don’t 100%, but I want to be as much in control of it as I can, so that’s number one. Number two, a tolerance of ambiguity. Meaning things are not black and white, and keeping an open mind and incorporating information and having knowledge is a very powerful tool, so take control and be the best you can be. That’s the best lesson I’ve learned.

Guy: Awesome. It’s funny you come up with that answer because I’ve been [inaudible 00:58:04] the phrase, beginner’s mind, when you approach the things, and that’s come up in the last couple of podcast actually.
Ron: Look, I often say that I only wish I knew as much I thought I did when I graduated from dentistry. When I graduated, I passed all the exams set by all the professors, and I thought I knew it all. Actually, the more you learn, the more you realize you don’t know, so it’s fun to learn.

Stuart: That’s right.

Guy: Fantastic. What’s coming up next for you?

Ron: I’m just in the process … I’m just finishing a book, and the book is called Simply Be Well. It’s an exploration of the five stresses in life that break us down which I’ve mentioned, emotional, environmental, postural, nutritional, and dental, and the five pillars of health that build us up which is sleep, breathe, nourish, move, and think. It also explores why public health messages is so confusing and contradictory. That’s coming out in the New Year. If people are interested, they can go into my website and we’re going to be … I think I’m going to have the first couple of chapters ready in a couple of weeks, and so we’re going to give them out free, send out the first couple of chapter.

Guy: [inaudible 00:59:10] awesome. Let us know when it’s out. It would be great. Everyone listen to this. Your website, best place to go back to the [inaudible 00:59:19] would be?

Ron: The surgery website, the shdc.com.au. SHDC, that stands for Sydney Holistic Dental Centre.com.au or they go on to drronehrlich. All one word, lower case, dot com, and there’ll be a lot of information on their too. [crosstalk 00:59:37].

Guy: [crosstalk 00:59:36].

Ron: Workshops coming up in the New Year, a Simply Be Well workshop to go with the book, and we’ve got an app that goes with the book as well, so a lot of exciting stuff coming up.

Guy: Awesome. We’ll link to the show notes as well, so people can just go and check it out.

Ron: Thanks.

Guy: [crosstalk 00:59:52].

Ron: Thanks for having me.

Stuart: [crosstalk 00:59:53].

Guy: Thanks for coming on. That was brilliant. I really appreciate it.

Stuart: [crosstalk 00:59:55]. We continue to learn which is great.

Ron: Don’t we? Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it.

Guy: Awesome. Thanks, Ron. Cheers.

Stuart: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Fitter, Leaner & Stronger at 40. Discover how it’s done.

fit at forty

Stu: Some people freak out when they enter a new decade in their lives, and 40 seems to be a catalyst for many a mid-life crisis. When I turned 40 I joined CrossFit and decided to become fitter and stronger than ever before (mid-life crisis I hear you say). This is where we met Ewan, he seemed to be doing things that defied logic so we asked him to share his secrets.

Over to Ewan…

Ewan: The BIG four zero, for some, is a time to hang up the boots and find a hobby that isn’t quite so demanding on the old joints. For others it’s a time to make a new start and change some bad habits you’ve picked up over the years.

Where did my journey begin?

Ewan SeafordMy fitness journey started almost 30 years ago. I was packed off to boarding school where it was either rugby or running. I had the hand to eye coordination of a fish, so, by default I became a runner. The school gymnasium wasn’t discovered until I turned 15 and was only used during French lessons! I stuck with my love for running until my mid 20′s when I discovered wakeboarding. If you have never tried wakeboarding then you’re missing out. It has similar skills required for surfing with a much faster learning curve. Fast forward 8 years and a move from the UK to Australia had me searching for a new sport. A nagging mate, a global gym membership, one workout later and I had found this thing called CrossFit.

I’m willing to bet that these days, most readers have heard of CrossFit. Either if you love or hate it, you can’t deny that CrossFit has now reached the masses. Hell, your mum has probably heard of it and even possibly tried it.

Fit at 40

Being fit when life is supposedly supposed to begin will mean different things to different people. If your New Year resolution didn’t include a checkbox for getting back into the gym or going for a run with the dog then the good news is that you don’t need an excuse to start. There isn’t a big bang moment when you go from being unfit to fit; it is a journey and an adventure. My training today looks very different to my training in my twenties. Back then it would be a case of turn up at the gym, lift some weights, rest, repeat and finally shower. The age of the internet has made everybody experts and the knowledge available has enabled me to give mother nature the middle finger and continue to improve. Gone are the days of getting changed and being good to go, a few life lessons later and I recognise the importance of nutrition, a thorough warm up and rest. Lots of rest.

Food, glorious food

My wife loves to remind me that in my teens and 20’s my diet consisted of pasta and cheap sausages. Thankfully both have now been replaced with zucchini noodles and steak (I know, very hipster). For me personally, I would describe my diet as primal, I love dairy too much to give it up for the paleo diet. Breakfast will consist of bacon, eggs and half an avocado, lunch and supper will be some seasonal veggies and fish/meat. I’ve switched from eating quantity to quality; meat purchased these days has to be grass fed. You really can taste the difference. Any snacks will be a handful of almonds and a 180 shake.
Having a family with three kids has to be about compromise, we do have bread in the house and I’ll occasionally make a baconator, as much bacon, egg and avocado as I can fit in two slices of bread. Guilt levels on a baconator day = Zero. My four nutrition tips for a healthy lifestyle are:

  1. Whatever you do make it sustainable. If you have a bad day, don’t give up, simply recognise the trigger and get back on the wagon
  2. Drink a minimum of 2l of water a day
  3. Avoid sugar and sweeteners
  4. Eat real food. Stick to the outer isle of the supermarket and select what is in season

To supplement or not to supplement

Recovery has been one of my main battles since I hit 40. I can’t always do multiple training sessions in a day unless I have my nutrition dialled in. For me this means supplementing my meals. Over the years I have tried most supplements out there and now have a small list of what works for me:

  • Fish oil:  The benefits of fish oil are amazing, google “benefits of fish oil’ and you’ll get over 8 million links to click through. For me I choose to use it for its anti-inflammatory properties. Forget your generic supermarket brand where you can get 400 for $20. Instead choose a good quality fish oil
  • Glutamine: Glutamine is found in over 60% of skeletal muscles and is one of the amino acids that make up protein. I take about 5-10g a day. Again this is taken for recovery
  • Greens: I take a product called Green Fusion from bulk nutrients, It’s a combination of Barley, Wheatgrass and Spirulina and taken instead of a multi vitamin
  • ZMA:  Zinc, Magnesium and B6. I first tried this 10+ years ago and gave up on it as a gimmick. I decided to give it another try 18m ago (around the time our twin girls came along and sleepless nights started). I do find I sleep much better when taking ZMA. Or rather I don’t sleep as well when I run out.
  • 180 Nutrition Superfood: The versatility of this is amazing. I use it with almost everything, from a humble protein shake to a scoop in my sweet potato & cinnamon mash. I typically have a large bag of coconut and a small bag of chocolate on the go.
  • Coffee: My drug of choice. Nuff said!

There isn’t a magic pill when it comes to supplementation, you’ll typically only notice any difference when you stop taking them. If I had to pick one it would have to be fish oil (Sorry Guy & Stu, you came in a close 3rd after coffee).

A daily routine

My day typically starts at around 5am, I’ll make some breakfast before jumping on the pedal bike and heading to coach at one of the two CrossFit boxes I work at. Taking the class through the warm-up is a great way for me to grease the groove and flush out the body of any kinks. After class I’ll head into the CBD where I work for a large international bank where I’ll spend most of my day sat on my bum. At the end of the day it’s back to the box to lift heavy things and move fast. I’ll either focus on a weakness or join in the class. After class it will be back on the bicycle to see the family. I’m a lightweight when it comes to burning the candle at both ends and will typically have lights out between 8:30 and 9pm.
The old saying ‘Routine is the enemy’ is true when it comes to exercise. Change now if your exercise routine is like watching the movie Groudhog Day. Your routine stops as soon as you pull on that t-shirt and training shoes. If your New Year resolution was to start running then mix it up with some sprint sessions or some hill runs. Embrace the change and challenge yourself. My tips for getting and staying fit are:

  • It’s never too late to start, even if that start feels like you have been run over by a truck, good for you for starting!
  • Set yourself short and long term goals. Write them down, stick them on your wardrobe door, tell your partner & friends, make yourself accountable. Start the short term goals with ‘This week I will’ and surround yourself with a supportive network of family and friends
  • Record your progress, You’ll be amazed when that run round the block which took you 10min three months ago can now be smashed out in under 5. It doesn’t matter if you use pen and paper, a Fitbit or an online tool. It is a powerful motivator being able to see your results
  • Have fun!

Conclusion

You are never too old to start, be open to change and have fun saying yes to new challenges.

3-2-1-Go.

Order 180 for your smoothies here

Discover Why We Get Fat: Understanding Your Carbohydrate Tolerance

The video above is 2 minutes 30 seconds long

Guy: The video above is the short version of why we get fat and what we can do about it. Below is the fascinating long version as today we are joined by Dr Kieron Rooney, a Researcher in Metabolic Biochemistry.

Kieron is a fun, down to earth guy who gives us an incite to what is going in the world of nutritional study from an academic perspective. So if you are wondering why there could be so much disagreement out there on the world of nutrition, then watch this as Kieron sheds some light on what’s really going on!

Full Dr Kieron Rooney Interview: Science, Research & Nutrition. What’s the real deal?

Free Health Pack 

downloaditunesIn this episode we talk about:-

  • Kieron’s personal journey of weight loss
  • How scientific research actually works!
  • Why we are getting fatter and sicker as a nation
  • Understanding our own carbohydrate tolerances
  • The relationship between sugar and cancer cells
  • And much much more…

CLICK HERE for all Episodes of 180TV

Full Transcription

Guy Lawrence: This is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition and welcome to another episode of the Health Sessions. Our awesome guest today is Dr. Kieron Rooney. Now, to quote his twitter bio, “Dr. Kieron Rooney is a researcher in metabolic biochemistry. He campaigns for real foods in schools,” and awesome project, “He’s interested in cancer and sugar metabolism and he’s also a registered nutritionist.”

And, also, on top of that, a really awesome cool guy, and we’re pretty keen to get him on the show today. The one thing I’ve realized chatting to Kieron on this podcast today is that the more you know the more you don’t now. You know? So delving into the world of science and academic research with Kieron and trying to figure out why there’s this whole nutritional mess going on, really, with this low-fat, high-fat, high-carb, low-carb, what, you know, what’s going on and to get it from Kieron’s perspective is pretty awesome.

So strap yourself in. It’s pretty information-packed, but he does break it down in really simple terms, and we cover many, many topics, including all of the above I just mentioned, so I’m sure you’re going to get a lot out of this.

If you are listening to this through iTunes, a little review, awesome. It takes two minutes. It can be complicated; iTunes don’t make it easy for us, you know, but the reviews, and if you subscribe to our podcast, allows us to get found easily on iTunes and it helps get this message out there. So if you do enjoy our podcasts and you do enjoy the show, a simple review telling us, “Hey, guys, keep it up,” would be pretty awesome.

We know we’re reaching a lot of people now and we know you’re out there. Of course you can watch these on video. If you are listening to us through iTunes, just come over to our blog 180nutrition.com.au where we’ve got a host of things everywhere from blog posts, obviously these podcasts, our products, whatever, it’s all in there, and it’s all there to serve you and help your health moving forward.

Anyway, enjoy the show. Let’s go over to Kieron and let’s hang out for the next 45 minutes. Awesome.

Guy Lawrence: All right. I’m Guy Lawrence. I’m with Stuart Cooke and our awesome guest today is Dr. Kieron Rooney. Welcome!

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Hello.

Stuart Cooke: Hello.

Guy Lawrence: Before we kick off, I’ve got to say I’m very excited to have you on the show and now I do say that to all the guests, but even more so today, because, you know, I was just thinking this morning there’s a lot of smart people in this world, right? And a lot of academics and the rest of it, but for some reason we still can’t get a unison, harmony, if you like, on nutrition, so what’s going on? So I’m really looking forward to shedding some light on that today.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Excellent.

Guy Lawrence: And find out why everyone is so indifferent about it.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: I might not have a definitive answer for you, but I can at least come up with a few suggestions. How’s that?

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, that’d be awesome.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: yeah? All right.

Guy Lawrence: Before we get into that, can you just explain to our listeners a little bit about yourself?

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Oh, yeah, sure.

Guy Lawrence: And why we are excited to have you on the show?

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Okay, so, look, professionally I did a Bachelor of Science degree from 1995 to ’98 at University of Sydney and then I did my honors and Ph.D in metabolic biochemistry. So I had four and a bit years where I was looking at the role of the phosphocreatine energy shuttle and how it reacts or behaves to shuttle energy around muscle cells, liver cells and the pancreas. I was particularly looking at whether or not it influence insulin secretions, so I then used a couple of different animal models to manipulate that, so we would use exercise as intervention, we would use high-fat diets as an intervention, and we’ll have a look to see what we could do to influence fuel storage and fuel utilization capacity, and that…

And then in 2003, I got my position as a lecturer just after the Ph.D lecturing in exercise physiology and biochemistry. I’ve spent the last ten years now developing curriculum for exercise science degrees, exercise physiology, that mostly focuses, my part mostly focuses, on what regulates fuel utilizations, how we store it, how we break it down, and the regulation behind that, and that’s my teaching side of things, and then for my research perspective what I’ve continued on is the investigations of fuel utilization. We’ve got a number of research projects have looked at how diet and exercise can influence how well we store and break down fuel. 

Personally, because I know that you’re interested in the personal story, if we go back to 2006, 2005, I was a smoker weighing in at around 90 kilos, but I could still run 5Ks at around about 25 minutes, so was living thinking that I was fit, right, but then decided with my partner that we wanted to start a family so we probably really should get ourselves healthy as well. I started making more changes so I quit smoking. I quit the drinking of Coke, which at that time I was probably around about two liters a day, and then I quit drinking Coke again in 2008, and then I quit drinking it again in 2010, and I quit drinking it again in 2013…

So, that one’s been a little bit of a recurrent one for me, but look…about two years ago I decided to go, well, I guess, the focus was not eating processed food. It was removing as much of the highly processed foods that were in my diet, which at the time was huge, right? That’s twos liters of Coke a day and there was a lot of pasta, there was a lot of breads, it was eating out a fair bit, and so once I, or the family, jumped onto that thinking and we removed a lot of the highly-processed refined flours, those types of foods, health just started improving even more dramatically.

Everyone like weight stories. I dropped. I went from 91 kilos at that point down to 75, but more importantly I think I’m still running quite well, although, I’ve cut that out and I’ve started doing more strength work and my power outputs at the gym have been increasing over that same time, so I know I’m feeling stronger and now I’m feeling better, and some people tell me I’m looking better.

Stuart Cooke: Oh boy, okay. You’re qualified to answer my next question then.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: On two fronts, right? I get the academic perspective and the personal anecdote N=1 that nobody likes. 

Stuart Cooke: Exactly right. You’re right. You’ve certainly touched on what I think the answer is going to be, but in your scientific opinion why do you think we’re getting fatter and sicker as a nation?

 

Dr. Kieron Rooney: My perspective on this has changed dramatically over the last ten years. My training was from a biochemistry point of view, small animal models, cell models, looking at individual metabolic pathways, looking for particular energy transfer systems that might explain why it is that we’re storing more fat or more carbohydrate, whatever it might be, or not accessing it properly, and so therefore we might be storing it but not breaking it down, but five years ago, 2009, 2010, I started collaborating with a psychology group who were, at the time, looking at sugar-sweetened beverages and sugar-sweetened foods to influence cognition, and we got collaborating going, “Well, you guys will measure behavioral adaptations to food, I can have a look at the metabolic perspectives in those same models, and we’ll see what happens.”

So, for the last five years, we’ve been publishing that work. Last year we were able to get an ARC grant to start trying to translate into human population. So, look, ten years ago I would’ve said to you, “We’ve got some nice discrete energy pathways that are defective in individual cells within the body, and that might be what it is that’s driving us to be fatter and sicker.”

But, over the last five years, as I start looking more at the behavioral, the cognitive side of things, I see it’s much more of a mix between the two, and I think one of the biggest issues we’ve got at the moment is as individuals we want our meals to be convenient so they can fit in with our busy lives. We want them to be cheap, so they can fit in with our finances, and more and more, we want them to be increasingly tasty, flavorsome, and so what we’ve done as a society is we’ve created a niche there where the food industry have come in and provided exactly what we’ve been wanting with highly processed foods that are energy dense, taste great, and relatively cheap.

Now what that’s done is that it’s lead us to be eating more, and so we no longer just have breakfast, lunch, and dinner, which are in moderate proportions, but we’ve also got the mid-morning snack, the late-afternoon snack, the food that I’m going to eat on the drive or the bus ride home, I’ve got my dessert, and I’ve got my late-night snack before I go to bed. So we have an environment where we’ve got a surplus of food, but the big issue is that metabolically our systems can’t meet that capacity, and so we’ve put our metabolic systems, which have a limited threshold to utilize energy into an environment where we’re providing it with vast excesses. 

Now, our bodies do burn energy. Absolutely. We’ll try and excrete as much of the excess as we can, but any excess we store, and that answers the question as to why we’re getting fatter, shall we say, or larger, right? So, we’re eating the wrong foods. We’re eating too much of them. We’re eating too frequently, such that the system doesn’t have a chance to recover and remove the excess that we’ve taken in, but the other big issue there is that we’re not eating the right foods. We’ve gone for the reliance on the convenient, cheap, highly-processed foods and we’ve moved away, we’ve forgotten about food quality, and so when you move into eating those types of food, they meet the nutrient requirements for your metabolic capacity and you don’t tend to overeat all of them.

Guy Lawrence: A question, a thought just popped in there, Kieron. With your own personal circumstances, you know how you say you dropped this weight from being over 90 kilos…

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: And you’ve changed the quality of your food dramatically, obviously, in the Cokes and that. Did the consumption change as well, or did that remain the same?

Dr. Kieron Rooney: I’m a little bit of a, because I’m a scientist at heart, I tend to collect a lot of data on myself, so I do have spreadsheets of energy intake, energy expenditure, what I’ve been doing, since around 2004, and when we have a look at the total energy intake, that hasn’t changed that much, but what has happened is that my frequencies of meals. 

So, for example, I don’t eat breakfast anymore. All right? When I wake up in the morning, I’m not hungry. I might have a cup of coffee. That gets me to work. My first meal is usually around about half-past ten, eleven o’clock, so you might see me attacking my fridge in about an hour, but what I’m seeing is I’m eating far less often during my day, but those meals are much more nutrient dense, and that’s getting me through the day. 

So, what I’m probably finding, if I was to look at my own system, is that there are far more times during my day where I’ve got a recovery period and I don’t have a constantly high metabolic load coming in onto that system that my digestive system and my endocrine system have to deal with.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, right. From a science perspective, then, because we’ve been pushed a low-fat diet for many, many years, you know, I think Ancel Keys was the breakthrough scientist, and do we know what we know now back then? So, has opinions changed dramatically, or have we just had new discoveries over the last couple of years? Or has it always been a mixed bag of information over the last twenty or thirty years?

Dr. Kieron Rooney: I think…when you think about it from a nutrition research, nutrition information, public health policy point-of-view, the science and the evidence hasn’t necessarily changed significantly. We still know very much what we knew quite a long, long time ago. There’s been evidence from early turn of the century that particular foods behave in different ways when you consume them, all right? So whether or not that knowledge has changed is not really the issue. I think part of the big problem is how it’s being marketed, how it’s being utilized in health promotion, and that’s what necessarily has changed. 

We knew years ago that if you ate too much, if you ate more energy than you’re going to, than you expend, then you’re going to store lots of it. We knew twenty years ago, thirty years ago, forty years ago exercise was important for prevention of cardiovascular disease, the prevention of diabetes…I think the big change that is happening at the moment is people realizing that maybe one of the biggest fallacies that they’ve had is that they’ve only thought about food and nutrition from an energy perspective, and what we really need to identify far more is how individual foods react or changehow our metabolic systems work. 

So, the whole energy in, energy out argument, which works as a nice simple piece of dogma to get a particular message across, that is, “If you eat too much, you’re going to gain weight. If you eat less, you’re going to lose it,” that works to some extent, but it doesn’t explain how food relates to metabolic disease, because food is far more than just the energy, right? 150 calories from a sugar-sweetened beverage is going to metabolically impact your body far different to 150 calories from cheese.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: And in that instance then, eating, and our nutrition advice should all be about not so much just what the energy balance is about, but what rather what are the food types that you’re eating? What’s the quality of that food? Where is your energy coming from? 

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. That’s certainly coming at the forefront. I mean, because we play around with this a lot, don’t we, Stu? Like, you know, and for myself, personally, I can dramatically increase the calories providing it’s natural fat, and as long as my carbohydrate intake remains reasonably low, I can, I generally don’t put on weight even if I increase in calories quite a lot, from a personal perspective, and Stu can eat all day and not put on…

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, I come at it from the other side of the fence, where I have always struggled to maintain weight, and I can eat literally anything, but the difference for me is the way I feel. You know? I may look slim and skinny, but I just feel wasted if I eat some food low in nutrients, to put it that way.

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Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah, so, you’re touching on a couple of things, and so I’ll start with Guy’s. Guy touched on carbohydrate content relative to fat, and that’s where we see a lot of the social conversation happening at the moment, a little bit of the academic conversation happening, and that is, “What is this discussion around the balance of carbohydrates and fat?”

And you’ve got a number of different approaches to how you balance those macronutrients. We’ll come back to that in a moment, but Stu, you also touch her on something else that a lot of the behaviorialists talk about, but very few of the metabolic researchers have until recently and that is if we think about food as more than just this energy content, what’s its impact on our quality of life, our general outlook on things, and that’s an area in which there needs to be far more attention, because we’ve got qualitative data from individuals, but people like to think that that’s not strong enough to warrant investigation, but yeah, it’s definitely a theme that keeps popping up, so you’ve got a macronutrient issue, but you’ve also got a consideration of whether or not food is more than just the energy and there it is, but the third thing that you’re touching on here is individual variance, and how you can get a number of individuals eating the same diet, but they might respond very differently.

Okay, so, give me a couple of minutes, I’ll try and cover those ones for us, right? So, if we go to the carbohydrate/fat ratio thing, right? Now, it’s an area I’m particularly interested in, because I think one of the biggest things that’s changed over the last twenty years with our general society eating is the introduction to liquid calories and, in particular, sugar-sweetened beverages. 

Okay, so I’ll declare my bias. I’ve researched in the area for five years, so I might have a little bit of an idea about what I’m talking about, and I’ve received funding from the ARC to investigate this in the next few years, right? But we can show on our models what others have shown quite consistently that the excess calories that you take from sugar-sweetened beverages or the sugar that you’re getting in from that will have a completely different effect upon individuals, between individuals, will have a completely different effect to the carbohydrate sources that you might get from whole foods and real foods, right?

So, when we talk about individuals who go along restricting processed foods, removing those nutrient-poor but energy-dense types of foods what you might typically find is people drop their carbohydrate intake, because when you have a look at the processed, a lot of the processed foods, they’re high-fat and high-sugar, but they’re far more carbohydrate in there relative to the fat that might be in there.

Now, when we think about how our metabolic systems are designed, we have a minimum, sorry, we have a maximum threshold for how much carbohydrate we can tolerate. Now, we’ve been told within the profession and therefore have translated it out to the social, to society, that there’s a minimum requirement of carbohydrate of about 130 grams a day, as a theoretical value, and in actual fact, my opinion, from what I’ve read, from what I’ve researched, is that 130 is not a minimum requirement, it’s a maximum requirement.

Stuart Cooke: Right.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: And where we calculate or where that 130 has been calculated from was discrete experiments that have a look at what’s the minimum requirement of the brain, the central nervous system, what are tissues burning within you cells, sorry, what are the cells within your body utilizing as their predominant fuel. Now, if you accept that that number is a maximum threshold, then you start looking at the metabolic systems that get kicked in when you start eating over it. 

Now, the most recent national nutrition health survey data of Australians that came out a couple of months ago showed that on average we’re eating right about 250 grams of carbohydrate, and there are individuals in amongst that group, that’s on average, so there are some individuals in that group who are eating in excess of that up to and over 300 grams of carbohydrate a day.

And there’s an acknowledgment in that data that there’s underreporting, so in actual fact, it’s probably over that amount. Right? Now, that means if we have a metabolic system that can only handle 130 grams of carbohydrate, give or take a few carbs for individual variance, then if you’re an individual who’s eating 200, 250, 300 grams, then your body is not going to catabolize that fuel. It’s not going to burn it and break it off; it’s going to store it or do its best to excrete it. Now, we initially store carbohydrates as glycogen, but we’ve got a maximum threshold of how much glycogen we can store, and then once you’ve met that threshold, the overflow goes elsewhere.

And there’s multiple pathways in which that excess carbohydrate can go, and there’s good evidence to show that it can go into fat or it might go into other metabolites. So, you’re carbohydrate content there has its maximum threshold, Guy. Now when it comes to fat, there’s no published minimum threshold for fat, and there’s no published maximum threshold for fat intake. So if you go to the NIH where there’s where this 130 grams of carbohydrate came from, in that same table for fat they’ve got a dash, right? It’s an unknown number, right?

What we do know is that there are essential fatty acids that our bodies can’t create, so therefore there are certain fats we do have to eat, right? Now, so, when I think about what you’re telling me, Guy, and that, yeah, you can fluctuate your energy intake but if it’s fat you can get away with it a fair bit. What you’d think about is the people who come from the low-carb, high-fat philosophies say, “Well, if you maintain a very low carbohydrate content, so you’re sitting around about 50 to 80 grams of carbohydrate, then your body adapts to be a fat-burner.”

So, all the metabolic systems within your tissues that can burn fat stay up-regulate, so you’ve got more of them, and you down-regulate, or reduce the amount of carbohydrate pathways…

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Which means that if you’re eating fat, your systems tune to burn that fat, right? Now if you put carbohydrates into that system, though, because you’ve down-regulated the pathways that would burn carbs, you’ve got a reduced capacity to catabolize them and perhaps a more increased capacity to store them, so you need to be careful of that balance and when you’re going to bring those different macronutrients in, so, one of the issues we need to identify is that the human body is an adaptable system. It will change its metabolic processes to deal with the foods that you’re putting into it.

So, if you habitually live on a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet, then the metabolic systems within your muscles, within your liver will adapt to deal with those fuel systems. If you live on a high-carbohydrate, lower fat system, then those tissues in that system will adapt to try and handle that as well as they can, but we have a limited capacity to deal with carbohydrates and excesses over that will flow in.

Now, what we don’t know is what really determines individual variance. We know habitual diet can have a play. We know genetics has a huge play, and there are big studies in hundreds, thousands of individuals that have tacked individuals over years. I think about this one called the Heritage Study, which has been running for a good twenty odd years or so. It’s got grandparents, parents, children. It’s got quite a number of generations within families. They have endurance training programs. They’re monitoring food.

And one of the outcomes of interest that comes from that route is that you’ll find a reported average benefit of the endurance training program of, yeah, anywhere of around about, yeah, a liter per minute of vo2 max, so that means your physical capacity is improved this much, all right? On average. 

But if you have a look at the individual data, you’ll find that there’s individuals who’ve been doing the exact same lifestyle intervention for four, five months and don’t respond at all, so, no response whatsoever, and others who have responded that much, right? So, what we need to be careful of is when we start thinking about dietary advice, exercise advice and try and translate it out to everybody, we need to be aware that absolutely we’ve got the evidence from research that shows we have individual variance.

There will be some people that respond to particular interventions far better than others and…

Guy Lawrence: Sadly, it’s not marketed like that, is it? Like, it’s always like, “You must do this!”

Dr. Kieron Rooney: That’s right! That’s right! And so what you really start thinking about then is a research study. If we want to get that published, if we want to get that funded, we need to have large numbers of participants, and they’re the real good funding bias, or not good, real poor, bad, but they are the fact of publication bias that we like to favor publishing positive results, right?

So, if you go and do a huge study, and you show that your intervention didn’t have a good outcome or didn’t have a significant outcome, then it’s much harder to get that paper published than if you’ve got an intervention that has had a positive outcome, right? Whether it be one way or the other, right? So, what we find is that we can have a publication bias that only published papers and interventions that have had this significant effect. Now, to get that significant effect then you want to make you’re, you don’t want to, but what people tend to, which is not really part of scientific method, is they will search for populations that will meet that need.

So, knowing that we’ve got individual variance, you can design your parameters in a way that ensures a much more likelihood of a significant result, right? So, we get papers published. It shows that we’ve got this significant adaptation or outcome in one particular direction, that’s the message that gets sold because it’s the simplest, it’s the clearest message, but if you go into the individual data sets then you can see that there’s quite a big variance at how individuals respond to that.

And so the idea of the message should actually be, “Well, here’s a couple of different approaches that an individual might want to take in society. Try them. Find out what works for you. You might be an individual that thrives on a lower-carbohydrate, higher-fat diet, or you might be an individual that thrives on the Ornish Diet, 80 percent carbohydrates, very low fat, but the idea is that the way we should be thinking perhaps is that future-wise, when we think about the research, the messages that come out, it’s not so much saying here’s one protocol that everyone should be trying. It should be more along the lines of, “Do you know what? Here are a number of different approaches that people have used and that have worked for them.”

And it’s about experimenting with ourselves engaged in finding what works best for us.

Guy Lawrence: Is that what’s happened with the low-fat diet? Because, like, everyone I know, or most people, generally are just conditioning to eating a low-fat diet. It’s always been that way, you know, when I grew up everything about it. I remember, you know, avoiding fat like the plague, and you know that information had to come from somewhere.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: That’s right. So, you know, there’ve been plenty of books written about it. There have been public seminars given about it. The big turning point in nutritional history would’ve been, everybody refers to it in the ’70s in America, identify what are some dietary guidelines for Americans to follow from the ’70s onward, and one of the things that we need to keep in mind with Australia is those guidelines don’t directly impact what our advice is. 

Yes, there was some influence. They did get translated into our Australian population and that underlying theme of reducing saturated fat or reducing fat intake does persist within our guidelinespre-2013 and to some extent within the current 2013 ones as well. That wasn’t necessarily a turning point directly for Australia, but that message has been what has come through and translated to everybody.

So, we have a ’70s time point in America where there is enough evidence for some individuals to say< “We need to focus on high-fat intakes as being a problem.” The marketing and the messaging around that then severely demonizes fat as a negative macronutrient and that we shouldn’t be eating too much of it, and more often not, you see people will have, the professionals will advise a cap at around about 30 percent of your daily energy intake coming from fat. Anything over that, they would refer to as a high-fat diet. And so, that’s right, what most prevalent in most people’s thinking is, “Fat’s the problem; we need to remove it.”

Now, that’s probably got a much stronger message than anything that comes out at the moment, because it’s the first one that’s come out, right? So, we’ve had dietary guidelines form America since the ’70s. In Australia, they came around ’80s, ’90s or so. Now, the very first time then a society’s being told we’re being told we need to watch what we eat, the focus is on fat, and so that’s the prevailing thought that comes into everybody’s thought, “I’m dieting. I need to restrict fat.”

But the evidence that is subsequently being collected suggests that it’s not as simple as that, right? We can’t just focus on that one macronutrient. We can’t just focus on putting a cap at 30 percent on that one macronutrient and in actual fact, some individuals who go onto that diet do not perform well, all right? They’re eating far more carbohydrates than their systems can adapt.

So, if we force those individuals to stay on that regime, on that dietary advice, they are not going to perform well and they’re going to get sick, but the big issue that we have, or one of the big issues that we have, is if we framed a professional situation now where we make individuals feel that they can’t go against that advice, right, and that’s a big issue that we’ve got when we think about, “How do we translate the evidence from science into nutritional policy into health promotion and health advocacy?”

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There is evidence in the science to show that individuals on a high-fat diet, low-carbohydrate diet can perform quite well in health outcomes, not just in weight, but there’s also within those same papers evidence that suggests that individuals on that diet won’t perform well. Just as much as there’s evidence to show that individuals on your low-fat, moderate carbohydrate diet will or won’t perform well. What we can’t have is a system which is dogmatic, that says everybody should be following this macronutrient distribution. What it should be is identifying individuals respond differently to various programs and it’s about you as an individual finding out what works for you.

And then we should be, as academics and professionals, setting up a system that supports that, right? Identifies what’s your relationship with food, what’s your relationship with your eating patterns, and whether or not part of the issues or problems that you might be having is because you’re forcing yourself to fit a paradigm that doesn’t fit for you.

Stuart Cooke: So what should we be doing right now at home to address this confusion, because from a commercial standpoint, you know, “Fear cholesterol, you know, eat healthy whole grains.” We still seem to be doing the wrong things being told to do the wrong things, so right now, what could I do to figure out what works for me?

Dr. Kieron Rooney: The safest option for you is to find yourself a qualified professional who’s going to support you in identifying what works for yen,

Stuart Cooke: How would I do that based upon traditional food practices and doctors who are again aligned with perhaps cholesterol-lowering drugs, you know, and the like. How would I find a , I guess, I’m almost looking at a new age doctor who understands.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Look, it doesn’t have to be being New Age. You can’t put that umbrella over it or make people think that they’re quacks and…

Stuart Cooke: How do you think I can about that? I’ve been to, well, in the past, I’ve been to a number of doctors who have been grossly overweight, and I figure, “Would I really want to go to you for nutritional advice?” That would be my concern.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Hey, look, you raising an interesting issue and I’m not remembering the journal that it was published in, but there was a paper that came out a year ago or maybe early this year, which was looking at clients’ perceptions of receiving advice from the professional that I’m talking about, and without doubt there’s very much that feeling that some people would walk into a room and look at the individual and go, “Well, how am I going to trust you?” 

It’s an issue I’ve had trying to teach biochemistry. The vast majority of people that walk into a biochemistry lecture have already decided that they’re going to hate it, and they’re basing that on more likely their experiences with chemistry in high school, and there’s a really good reason for people to feel that, right? Because chemistry and biochemistry can be intimidating. It can be something that people hate, so as a lecturer in that topic, I’ve had to take onboard very early on how do I get people to engage with that topic? Do I have to be the topic myself? Right? And now I find myself, yeah, answering a question in which I’ve got to turn that philosophy onto, well, yeah, does the person giving the message have to represent the message that they’re giving? I’m going to say no for a moment, right? And I’m going to say no because what you’d have to appreciate in your analogy there, Stu, is that we don’t get fat and sick overnight.

Stuart Cooke: Right.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: WE get fat and sick over thirty, forty years of small incremental differences in our metabolic behaviors but also in our cognitive behaviors, right? So, you could have a very wise health professional who’s reading the up-to-date evidence at the moment, who’s beginning to challenge their own beliefs and what they’ve been practicing, what they’ve been doing over the last twenty or thirty years, but they won’t represent that right now, right?

And, so, to put that kind of assumption on an individual is kind of being unfair to that profession, right? What you need to be able to appreciate is that while a health professional I don’t think has to embody the evidence that they’re giving out, right? Because what we’ve got at the moment is a real change in the zeitgeist, right?

The conversations that happen in society, the conversation that’s happening on social media, the conversations that are happening in academia are changing, so what one individual might advise a patient tomorrow could be quite different to what they advised last week, two weeks ago, even a year ago, but they won’t see that impact straight away, right? 

If I think about my own personal journey, if we just looked at weight as an outcome, yeah, I lost, what was it, 15 kilos, but it took eight months to do that, all right? But I started feeling perceptual benefits, yeah, within a couple of weeks. I was feeling great. I was feeling energized. I was feeling like I made the right choice, and I was going to stick with this new approach to living, new approach to eating, but if you’d come and seen me three weeks into my program and had gone, “Yeah, you’re still fat, right? Clearly, it’s not working for you.” Then I would have lost you very early on, right?

So to say to expect that immediate change and for us to represent that, I don’t think is exactly fair, right?

Stuart Cooke: If I had come to see you while you were guzzling two liters of Coke a day, I perhaps would have been questioning your advice as well.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Absolutely. If I’m telling you to cut out the sugar-sweetened beverages while I guzzle down on one, I, perfectly, I accept that 100 percent, right? I mean, for people who’ve come across me already, they might be aware that for at least the last year or so I’ve been campaigning to change the nutritional guidelines for what we sell in schools, right? At least in New South Wales, if not nationally.

Stuart Cooke: Yes.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: And one of the challenges that we’ve got there is the New South Wales government has said, “The person responsible for implementing healthy eating practice in schools is the principal, right? So, that means that the government have put this policy in place then they’ve washed their hands of it and gone, “Local schools; local decisions. You can take care of it.”

So, if you’ve got a principal who’s walking around the school playground guzzling Coke, eating Party Pies, sausage rolls, hot dogs, hamburgers, pizzas. He’s the person, or she’s the person, that we have to convince to change what food they serve to kids, and the message gets lost right away. So, point granted. If at the time that they are delivering their health advice they’re not following it themselves, they have good reason to question it, right?

Stuart Cooke: Got it. Got it. So, I’ve gone to the doctors and I’ve looked past the appearance of my doctor. The doctor looks okay, and I’m questioning my doctor, “What should I eat to be healthy?” Where would we go? What should I be looking for? What do you think my doctor would be advising me to do?

Dr. Kieron Rooney: I think one of the first things that the doctor should be doing is asking you, “How much processed food are you eating?” You would classify in nutrition and dietetics as being discretionary food, so if you go to the Australian dietary guidelines, there’s a nice couple of peaches, there’s some good worded paragraphs that shows you exactly what are classified as discretionary calories. 

Now, one disclaimer: I do not believe that anything, in my opinion, such as a discretionary calorie, right? There’s no such thing, so your body does not take a calorie that’s coming from a sugar-sweetened beverage and go, “Oh! That’s one of my 10 percent discretionary calories, so I’m going to put that over in my discretionary calorie bank account, and this is a good one.” Right?

Stuart Cooke: That’s right.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: I think the, in my opinion, the rule should be processed foods are out as much as you possibly can, right?

Guy Lawrence: Can we just explain the umbrella of processed foods? Just in case…

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Sure. The best thing I can do here in such a timeframe would be to advise people to look up the NOVA Classifications of Food Processing. All right? So that’s N, O, V, A. It’s originated out of Brazil. It is providing an alternative classifications on foods on the degrees of processing.

So, there’s foods that have not been processed, such as your vegetables straight out of the ground, shall I say. Then you’ve got your minimally processed, where you might be including your dairy products in there, so you’ve had to do some kind of human interference to it in manufacturing. Then you go up to highly processed, up to ultra-processed, and when you’re getting into those degrees what you’ve got is industry coming in, they’re taking what was once originally a whole real food and they have mashed it, they’ve homogenized it, they’ve extracted out what nutritional scientists have said are the good bits and they’ve repackaged them into something that’s highly palatable, cheap, and convenient to eat.

Now, at that point, we cannot say that the nutrients within that food behaves the same way as if you ate the nutrients in their original form. All right? So, what you should be looking for is reducing as many of those ultra-processed, highly processed foods out of your diet, because what we’ve got is although they might be packaged saying that they’ve got all the nutrients that you need to be fit and healthy individual, they also bring alongside a number of products that you don’t need to be healthy and active, healthy individual, but also may be what’s making you sick. 

They’re also designed to make us eat more, so what I would like is my doctor to tell me, “Well, Kieron, the first thing I want to find out is how many of these discretionary calories are you eating? Have you gone beyond what the dietary guidelines recommend you should be eating?”

And, if we go to the National Nutritional Health survey that came out a couple of months ago, thousands of Australians interviewed over a couple of years period, we saw that between 30 to 40 percent of our energy intake was coming from these discretionary foods. Right. So, if I’m an average Australian that fits into the data that came from the National Nutritional Health survey data, then my doctor would be making the assumption that 30 to 40 percent of my daily energy intake is coming from these discretionary highly processed foods.

Stuart Cooke: Right.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: And, if we have a look at what the Australian dietary guidelines are saying, whether or not you agree with them on any particular level, just at a very simple point they say no more than 10 percent. So, already we would have identified a key area that you need to reduce food intake from. Now that does not mean you stop eating them and don’t replace them with anything. All right? That would be a starvation diet, and we’re not advocating for that. All right?

What it would be doing is going, “We’re going to remove those processed foods and the energy that you’ve lost from that we’re going to reintroduce, but we’re going to reintroduce them from your minimally or nonprocessed foods. All right? You’re going to be cooking at home with the real food, raw ingredients that you’ve purchased from your fruit and veg shop. Right?”

 In that instance you should have already drastically minimized your total energy intake, although that won’t necessarily be true for everybody, but what you will have done is you’ll have removed preservatives, additives. You’ll have removed, you will have inserted probably far more fiber, because you’re eating proper vegetables because they’re in their whole form, but you’re also bringing their nutrients in the format in which you would have been, your body would digest them and expect them.

Guy Lawrence: It’s quite a simple form now, isn’t it?

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah. That’s right. You look like you want to ask another question.

Guy Lawrence: No, no…I’m trying to keep myself restrained.

Stuart Cooke: You’ll struggle to read Guy’s face. I’ll tell you that, Kieron.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah, okay.

Stuart Cooke: I think he’s just thinking about his next meal.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? But that’s what I’d be expecting from my health professional. All right? If my health professional started dictating a particular prescription that I had to follow, then I’d be concerned. Now, how do you find one of these individuals? Well, I’m not aware of any particular database. I would not Google “new age doctor.” All right?

Stuart Cooke: You should try it.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: But, you know what, there are enough health professionals on social media sites, qualified dieticians, qualified medics, who are out there talking about what their message is that you should be able to relatively easily find someone who is still not going to dictate to you their new philosophy, but at least support you in investigating for yourself what might work.

Stuart Cooke: Perfect, and I guess referral plays a large part in that as well.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeas, as in, you mean, word of mouth if you’ve come across individuals that have supported one individual…

Stuart Cooke: Exactly right. Yeah, absolutely. Guy has found a wonderful new age doctor. I like what he says. I’m going.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah, yeah, that’s right. Now I love my GP. I’ve had the same GP since I was five now, so he’s known me for quite a long time, and he’s seen me go from a preschooler up to a qualified academic now, and we have great conversations. He knows I’m only coming to him because I haven’t tried to figure out first what went wrong with me, and I already have a long list, “I don’t think it’s any of these, so it’s over to you now. All right?”

Stuart Cooke: That’s exactly right. Fantastic.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: But he’s more than willing to support and go, “All right. Well if you’re going to go that way, let’s have a look and see what happens.”

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Stuart Cooke: Perfect. And again, just to break it down, overall message: Great place to start would be to eat more whole foods, get in the kitchen, start cooking with real ingredients, and just try and reduce the packet food.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: That’s right, and if you find yourself eating a meal out of convenience because you’re trying to fit it in between a meeting or between one other priority, then we need to rethink how we’ve approached what our food intake, what our behaviors are, because once we start doing that type of mindless eating, you can very easily increase more snacks, your taking in food more regularly, your energy intake is going to shoot up, and depending upon what the macronutrient content is, you could be doing yourself far greater harm.

Stuart Cooke: Got it, and I guess it’s kind of an exercise in time management as well, because if we’re putting ourselves into a space where we simply don’t have time to eat and we have to make these processed choices then we should perhaps go back and look at how we structure our days.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: It’d be lovely to think that’s what our holistic approach is. All right? And at the moment, we, as a community, have allowed our society, our environment to be dictated to us, and I’m going to jump on the big food bandwagon for a moment and say food industry, they want us to be distracted. They want us to be busy because that’s what their product is. Their product is in a box. It’s quick. It’s convenient, and it apparently has all the nutrients that you need to be fit and healthy, but it’s not. Right?

You’ve removed, you’ve given up your right to listen to your body, to take control of what it is that you’re going to feed it, and in that instance, if we keep our environment set up that way, we’re only going to get worse, right? So, you want to have an approach to eating in which you’re in control and you’re not being dictated to by marketing, because let’s face it, food industry they’re here to make profit, not to look after your health. All right?

And your priority should be your health and not an individual’s profit, and look, it’d be nice to think that what we need is a big social debate with our unions, with our workers, with our employers, with our workplace individuals, to say, “Look, what we’ve actually allowed to happen over the twenty, thirty, forty years that we’ve been here is we’ve created an environment in which our health is suffering, because we’re filling our lives up with priorities that are external to us. Right? We’re working for somebody else. We’re earning other people money. We’ve got this focus on commercialization, and in that instance our priorities have been distracted, and so therefore, one of the big areas that we’ve allowed without source is healthy eating, and that seems to be one of the biggest mistakes that we’ve made.”

Stuart Cooke: Well, I’d happily sit there and discuss that with you, if you want to form a coffee club. I’ll bring the biscuits.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: I have to say, in some circles I’m not qualified enough. I’ve only got a Ph.D. and 14, 15 years of research experience, but I don’t have a dietetics qualification, so all of this you’re getting as a nutrition academic who’s researched the area for 15 years.

Stuart Cooke: Well, you file me your details. I’ll order you one on the internet and we’ll get back to you before the end of the day.

Guy Lawrence: I know time is slowly creeping away from us, but I really wanted to ask you this, because I understand you’re looking at the relationship between cancer and sugar, so this is going way off tangent. What have you found? Can you just explain a little bit about that?

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah, sure, okay. So, look, I should point out I haven’t yet done any direct research myself, but if anybody’s listening, watching who is interested in having a look at the role of low-carbohydrate diets or even ketosis diets in case studies or patient, cancer patients undergoing treatment, I’m more than happy to have a conversation.

I came into this topic because though in my background readings and my support readings in sugar-sweetened beverages, sugar intake, impact on metabolic diseases, and I stumbled across these readings on ketosis diets and the treatment of cancer patients, and it turns out way back in 1924 there was a Nobel Prize-winning hypothesis, well now this wasn’t what the Nobel Prize was for, but the individual who won the Nobel Prize came up with this other hypothesis and that’s called the Warburg…

Guy Lawrence: Is that Warburg? Yeah, Otto Warburg.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah, yeah, Otto Warburg, who identified that in particular cancer cells there largely dependent upon glucose as their predominant fuel source. Now Warburg said that every cancer cell expressed this need, right, this desire, but subsequently we, you know, evidence comes out that shows not every cancer cell. There are particular cancer cells that are more dependent upon glucose than others. There are some that can adapt to a low-glucose environment to utilize other fuels, but for the large part, the vast majority of cancer cells have this increased reliance on glucose as a predominant fuel.

So there’s evidence coming out now and research being conducted, mostly in the States, which is investigating the starvation of cancer cells from sugar, and because the working hypothesis is, “Well, if we’ve been able to identify the particular cancer cells dependent upon sugar to survive, well, if we restrict access to sugar, does this cell growth arrest, shall we say?”

And then there’s an added benefit on top of that that some people such as a group XXat ????XX [0:50:11] in Florida are showing that ketone bodies themselves might have a protective effect, so the sugar and cancer story is a developing one. All right?

The general lay of the land is this, there are particular cancer cells that seem highly dependent upon glucose as their predominant fuel source for a number of things, not just as an energy source, but the pathways by which we make new DNA and new cell membranes and all the biomolecules we need to make new cells, which is what cancer cells are doing, is completely dependent upon glucose and that’s the pentose phosphate pathway. 

So the thinking is if we restrict glucose from cancer cells, we deprive them of their energy source, we also deprive them of the building blocks of the new cells, but the overarching effect, which other research is looking at, such as Eugene Fine, is independent of the acute effect of sugar on cells, if you’re restricting sugar intake you’re having another whole body effect, and that is you’re reducing the amount of insulin that you’re secreting, and insulin is a specific growth factor that stimulates cancer cell growth.

Now, every time you eat carbohydrates, you secrete more insulin, so there is a window of opportunity there for a cancer cell to have increased growth factors which allow them to grow in that particular time. Now, look, certain cancers are very slow-growing cancers, right? Just like diabetes, just like heart disease, you don’t wake up one day and all of the cancer cells have exploded, right? It’s a progressive disease.

So what you need to, what some people are looking at is, well, regardless of whether or not the Warburg effect or Warburg hypothesis is true for every cancer cell, what is a more common theme amongst cancers is that it depends upon growth factors to stimulate growth, and one of the most predominant growth factors that have an impact is insulin. And what is the major driving force for insulin secretion? Carbohydrate.

Guy Lawrence: So does that mean then this could be a cancer prevention? Actually keeping your insulin production reduced?

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Look, some people come at it from that perspective, yes. At the moment, I would say that the thinking would be more as a collaborative treatment, shall we say, so undergoing your chemotherapy, your traditional approaches to cancer treatment, whether or not they can be boosted, supported, by your also having a low-carbohydrate ketosis diet which ultimately leads to lower insulin levels throughout your entire day and therefore reduce the instances of growth factor stimulation on those cells.

Guy Lawrence: Okay. That is fascinating.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: That is, from my personal perspective, that’s reading at the moment, that’s talking to some of those researchers via email at least, but hopefully in the coming years the opportunity to work with a couple of professionals in the area to develop some case studies if not some intervention studies to see where the data’s coming, but there is good evidence coming out in recent times to identify low-carbohydrate ketosis diets in assisting the management of chemotherapy and treatment of cancer cells.

Guy Lawrence: There you go. Fantastic. Thanks for that. Stu? You look like you’re going to say something.

Stuart Cooke: No, I’m just…Yeah. I’m fascinated and intrigued by this talk and I’m just wondering how far away we are from hearing a lot more of this in mainstream media.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Look, it’s getting out there. All right? There’s a focus in some of the research that’s looking at…Unfortunately, I think, at the moment a lot of the research is still focusing on macronutrients, right? Carbohydrates, the fats, the protein ratios, what’s the impact of those? Are they in or not in calorie deficit, so, yeah, taking individuals, forcing them onto a particular diet and have a look at it…

What…last month there was a low-carbohydrate versus a moderate-carbohydrate standard diet paper that came out. There’s a rapid weight loss, there’s a long term weight loss diet study coming out also. There’s lots of intervention studies that are currently running or slowly coming out. It’s a matter if how quickly that evidence base is going to build to influence the profession

What we’ve got with the academic world, I think, is an environment which is completely different to what traditional academic would ever have been experienced to it. If we think about up until ten, fifteen years ago, and academic could have a long-lasting career doing their own research, publishing their own papers in scientific journals and the only people that would ever read that would be other scientists.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

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Dr. Kieron Rooney: In the last five to ten years with free access to publication journals such as Plus One, the Frontiers range of journals everyday individuals are getting access to the evidence XXin the science space 0:55:21.000XX, so we’ve got social groups who are moving quicker than the academic fraternity. Right?

And so the information’s gonna get out there well in advance of a consensus change from the profession. And so the information is out there, but if we’re expecting leadership from academia, already you’re a good 15, 20 years away from it still. Right? Because academics, we’re obliged to look at all the evidence. Right? We are obliged to take our time to make sure we’ve checked all the pros, all the cons, crossed the Ts, dotted the Is.

And with every new study that comes out, it doesn’t change our thinking. It gets absorbed into our current ways of thinking and we see whether or not it changes us.

Now, some of us are more open to being adaptive. Others, right? And it’s a measure of whether or not the community, the academic community, are readily taking on new evidence and allowing that to alter their current perception, or whether or not they’re ignoring it.

Stuart Cooke: “Watch this space.”

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t like that phrase, Stu.

I’m going to be in a different space, surely, in a couple of years’ time. If I’m still sitting in this office I’m going to be very upset.

Stuart Cooke: I’m going to print that on a T-shirt and send it your way.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Excellent. Excellent.

Guy Lawrence: Just before we wrap up, Kieron, I know when we were having a chat on the phone the other day you mentioned that you’re going to be looking for some test subjects in Sydney next year.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah. Yep.

Guy Lawrence: Do you want to quickly mention a little bit about that? Because…

Dr. Kieron Rooney: OK. I’d love to. I’ve got; we got funding for two major projects that we’re going to be running from 2015, 2016 onward. The first one is we are looking at trying to translate some of the research that’s been conducted on animals on sugar-sweetened beverages into a human population.

But what our key focus is on is on behavioral changes. Right? So, there are many groups that are already working on the metabolic impact of sugar-sweetened beverages. Sugar-sweetened beverages, from my opinion and from my research, are a particularly nasty processed food to be consuming. Our bodies deal with liquid calories differently to solid calories.

We also, when we consume liquid calories through sugar-sweetened beverages, put a huge dose onto our metabolic systems in a very acute time frame. And that’s gonna have another impact.

Now, other groups are already looking at the metabolic outcomes. And so we’re trying to be a little bit clever. We’ve got funding. We’re going to be doing metabolic outcomes. But we’re mostly interested in whether or not they’re impacting your behavior, your perceptions of foods, your eating behaviors, your intake.

So, that’s currently going through ethics at the moment. It should be, hopefully, approved by January, February of next year. And we’ll be looking for individuals for around about March, April onwards to come into our labs at the university and have some acute eating and metabolic measures taken during and after sugar-sweetened beverages. And we’re also looking at the impact of artificial-sweetened beverages as a control groups. That’s one study.

The other study that we’ve got currently running is going back to that individual variance question. And that is: touching on research from the ’80s and ’90s, going back to some of that data, shows that if you’re an individual who has a habitual diet that’s low in carbohydrate or low in fat, and then we give you a fat meal, you metabolize that fat completely differently.

So, we’ve got genetic studies running at the moment. We’re now going to put on top of that exercise, individual work, and what we’re gonna do; we’re gonna get individuals in, we’ll screen you for your fitness, we’ll screen you for body composition, and then we’re going to have to play around with some acute testing of fat meals and carbohydrate meals and see how individuals respond to that, depending upon your habitual diet.

So we’re going to be looking for hundreds of individuals across a wide section of the Sydney population. So, we’re going to want the paleo guys. We’re going to want the clean eaters. We’re going to want the vegetarians. We’re going to want the standard Australian diet individuals. And we’re going to try and identify, through a large observational cross-sectional study, whether or not we can identify key differences in these example populations.

Guy Lawrence: Awesome. Well, you’ve got two here.

Stuart Cooke: Keep us in the know. I’ll put Guy forward for the sugar-sweetened beverages study, if that’s OK. Go for that slot. You’re in there, Guy.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Well done.

Guy Lawrence: Excellent.

Stuart Cooke: Right. So, we’ve got time for the wrap-up question, Guy?

Guy Lawrence: Let’s do it. Let’s do it. So, we ask this question on every podcast, Kieron. OK? And it’s simply: What’s the best piece of advice you’ve even been given? It can be anything.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: I’m still waiting for something. I’ve been given lots of advice in my time. Right? The biggest problem is that I haven’t listened to a lot of it. All right? So, I’m going to go with the one that’s popping into my head acutely is one from my dad, and that was always: “Don’t let the turkeys get you down.”

So, quite often I find myself in situations where I might be talking to a lot of individuals who disagree with what I have to say, and they’re telling me that I might have missed things or I might be wrong, and when I go back and read things I try to find and see that, no, no, I should be getting listened to. So, in those circumstances it’s very easy to lose confidence in your own research, your own work, thinking that you’ve missed what other people have got. And then you realize later on when they’re not around, you haven’t.

So, that can get you down a fair bit. So, I say: Don’t let the turkeys get you down. If people are telling you that you’re wrong, as opposed to getting into a XXscrap meet 1:01:04.000XX with them right there, just go away, fine more evidence, build on it, and come back and fight another day. How about that?

Guy Lawrence: Awesome.

Stuart Cooke: That’s perfect. That will do.

Guy Lawrence: That will work. And if anyone wants to get in touch with you, Kieron, or find out more about next year or got any questions, all the rest of it, shall I just link to your bio on the university website?

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah, that’s the best way to do it. I’m not on Facebook. I think that’s a fad. I don’t think it’s going to be around for long. I am on Twitter. I’ve been on Twitter for roundabout 10 months now, so I’m getting into that.

Guy Lawrence: I see your Tweets coming through daily, mate.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: They can find me there or if you link to the home page on the university website, that will have my contact details there. When we’re at the point of recruiting and advertising the studies, we’ll have announcements up on that.

Guy Lawrence: Awesome.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Thank you.

Guy Lawrence: That was brilliant. Thank you for coming on, Kieron.

Dr. Kieron Rooney: Yeah, no worries. Thanks for having me.

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Jimmy Moore: Keto Clarity & Low Carb Living

 img-responsiveToday we welcome back best selling author & podcasting superstar Jimmy Moore, as we talk about his new book ‘Keto Clarity’. Have you looked at a low-carb diet simply as a means to lose weight? What if you learned that combining a low-carb nutritional approach with a high fat intake produces a powerful therapeutic effect on a wide variety of health conditions that most people think requires medication to control? That’s what Keto Clarity is all about.

Join as we get down to the knitty gritty stuff regarding fat, ketosis and low carb living.

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In this episode we talk about:-

  • How Jimmy lost over 100kg in weight!
  • What ketosis is and why you should know about it
  • The most accurate way to measure ketones
  • How to having amazing brain health
  • Why you must eat saturated fat
  • Dispelling the myths around low carb & ketogenic diets
  • And much much more…

Get more of Jimmy Moore

Keto Clarity & Low Carb Living Transcript

Guy Lawrence: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition, and welcome to another episode of The Health Sessions.

Our special guest today is no other than best-selling author Mr. Jimmy Moore. Now, he’s here to talk about his new book, Keto Clarity. And Jimmy’s wealth of knowledge when it comes to ketosis and low-carbohydrate is outstanding and we really dig deep today into covering all the myths and misconception that we might hear in the media as well regarding: “Low-carbohydrate diets are dangerous, we shouldn’t be doing it, and it’s all fad,” and everything else.

Jimmy’s story is exceptional. We’re gonna hear it straight from him in a moment. But, in a nutshell, he was over 200 kilograms in weight at one stage and was following a low-fat diet, tried many fad diets, was getting larger and larger by the year. And so once he sort of really understood low-carbohydrate living, bringing in; measuring ketones in the blood and going into ketosis, then he managed to drop all that weight and now lives a very happy, healthy life.

And this book, I think, is very important and needs to be written, you know, and to get a really clear understanding of what exactly low-carbohydrate and ketosis is and what the relationships are. Because they do differ, actually.

You know, I learned a heap from this podcast today and I have no doubt you will enjoy it.

As always, if you are listening to this through iTunes, and you enjoy our podcast, we’d love you to leave a review for us. It simply helps, A, give us feedback, where we can improve as well but also the fact that it helps with rankings and helps get our podcast and our message out there. Because me and Stu certainly believe that everyone should be, you know, at least listening to these podcasts, because I think our message is so important and we want people to truly understand what good health and nutrition is.

Anyway, I’m gonna stop talking. And let’s get over to Jimmy Moore and chat about his new book, Keto Clarity. Awesome.

All right. Let’s get into it. Hey. So, I’m Guy Lawrence, I’m joined with Mr. Stuart Cooke, as always, and our superstar podcasting low-carb special guest expert today is, Mr. Jimmy Moore.

Stuart Cooke: He’s behind you.

Jimmy Moore: I’m looking for him. I don’t know who you’re talking about.

What’s up, guys? How are you all?

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic. Thanks for coming back on the show.

Jimmy Moore: Thank you. I love this show.

Guy Lawrence: Last time, you were obviously talking about your book, Cholesterol Clarity, and we were very keen to have you back on today to talk about Keto Clarity, your new book.

But I was actually reading it a couple of days ago about your story and I’ve gotta be honest; I felt your pain that you were going through and frustration coming out. And it’s so inspiring to what you’ve actually gone on and done from that and turned it into something amazing. img-responsive

So, I figured before we kicked off into the book, can you just tell people, especially for all our new listeners who haven’t heard the last show, who’s Jimmy Moore, a little bit about that. Because it’s phenomenal, I think.

Jimmy Moore: Sure. Go back and listen. (I’m just kidding!).

So, back in 2003, I was a 410-pound man. So, what’s that? Just over 200 kilo. It’s a lot of man; let’s put it that way.

Guy Lawrence: That’s incredible.

Jimmy Moore: And I was wearing, you know, humongous shirts, humongous pairs of pants, ripping them every week. I was on three prescription medications for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, breathing medication.

I was 32 years old, you guys. And I’m a tall guy, but 400-plus pounds is not healthy on anybody.

And that’s where I found myself. And I had tried low-fat diet after low-fat diet and all of them had always failed me. And I defaulted to low-fat because we know that when you want to lose weight, people say cut your fat down, cut your calories down, and then exercise on the treadmill for an hour a day. And that’s how you magically lose weight.

Well, unfortunately, that magic pill doesn’t work for everybody.

So, my mother-in-law, for Christmas that year, had bought me a diet book. Yes. Mother-in-laws are wonderful about giving not-so-subtle hints to their son-in-laws that they’re fat.

Guy Lawrence: Very straight to the point, that present, mate.

Jimmy Moore: Absolutely. And she’s a sweetheart lady, so I definitely am very thankful that she gave me the book that she did at Christmas 2003, because it was not a low-fat diet book like all the ones I’d gotten before. It was one about this diet that I had not really tried before: a low-carb, high-fat diet. It was the Atkins Diet.

And I read that book, and I’m thinking, “Man, this guy is wackadoodle. How in the world do you energize your body when you don’t eat a lot of carbs?” That didn’t make sense to me.

And then the fat thing? I was looking at it and going, “Doesn’t he know that raises your cholesterol and clogs your arteries and you’re gonna keel over of a heart attack?”

But, guys, I think the breaking point for me was I was 400-plus pounds. That was reality. I was on three prescription medications. That was reality. I was ripping pants that were size 62-inch. That was reality. I needed to do something.

And I had tried literally everything but this, so what the heck? Let’s give it a whirl.

So, I made it my New Year’s resolution, 2004, to lose weight. And I started January 1st, 2004, lost 30 pounds the first month. What’s that? About 13, 14 kilo. And then the second month I was so energetic at that point I could really feel the effects of what I now know is keto-adaptation. And I had to start exercising. So, I added a little bit of exercise, which, for a 380-pounder at that point, meant walking about 10 minutes on a treadmill at three miles an hour, which was a lot of work. I tell people I was lifting weights. It was my body weight.

And I lost another 40 pounds that second month. By the end of a hundred days I lost a total of a hundred pounds. And I knew at that point there was something special about this. And, unlike any other diet I had ever been on in my entire life, I had no hunger, I was not craving anything. By the end of that hundred days, I had really become fully keto-adapted and able to sustain myself and do quite well without worrying about all that processed carbs that I used to eat.

So, it was a total transformation, not just physically but here. I mean, I remember there was a mantra. I didn’t tell this story last time I was on. There was a mantra I did to try to help myself overcome my carbohydrate cravings, and I made the mantra: “sugar is rat poison.”

So, if you think something is rat poison in your mind, are you going to eat it? No.

And so, after awhile, I honestly believed anything sugary was rat poison.

Guy Lawrence: That is a very good mantra.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I mean, it tricked my brain into thinking, “That is not a good thing to consume.” I now call those things “food-like products.” Not real food.

“Just eat real food” does the same thing. But having that negative imagery with this thing that I thought I could never live without was so vital. By the end of the year, I did end up losing 180 total pounds and it kind of kicked me off to the man you know me as today.

I started my blog in 2005 and that rose me to prominence that this guy said, “Hey, you should be a podcaster.” So now I have one of the biggest podcasts in the world on health. The Livin’ La Vida Lo Carb show. And, yeah. I mean, I’m gonna keep doing this for as long as the good Lord gives me breath to breathe.

Guy Lawrence: That’s awesome. That’s awesome.

How many podcast are you up to now, Jimmy? Just for people to know.

Jimmy Moore: So, on the Livin’ La Vida Low Carb show, it’s over 850 episodes. I’ve interviewed well over 900 guests from around the world, literally. All the experts that you can possibly think of have been on that show. And I do several other podcasts as well.

So, all in all, well over a thousand episodes that I’ve done combined with all of my work. It’s really humbling when you start thinking about, “Whoa! A thousand episodes!”

What episode is this? What episode are you guys on?

Guy Lawrence: We’re up to about 25. We do them once a fortnight.

Jimmy Moore: Nice.

Guy Lawrence: Sometimes that goes over to once every three weeks, depending on work outside of running the 180 business. But we just have literally converted our website over. We’ve been spending a lot of time on that. And we really want to start bringing these back in a minimum once a fortnight.

Guy Lawrence: It’s really hard, if you’re not consistent, you know. And if you get like a good schedule. Plus, you start saying, “OK. I just talked to the Jimmy Moore guy. That was so exciting. I want to do another one.” And so you have this passion and zeal wanting to do more.

Because when I first started my show, it was once a week. And the people were like, “Oh, we want to hear more.” So I went to twice a week. And now: “We want to hear more.” And so I went three times. “And we want to. . .” And I’m like, “I’m not going any more than three times a week.”

Guy Lawrence: It’s amazing. Because we appreciate it. I mean, what people don’t know is that you actually inspired me to start podcasting when I met you in Sydney last time. We had this conversation. And it’s like, “Right. We’re gonna do it.”

And then we came back to our studio and did a podcast. And then we switched into making a video podcast as well. And, yeah, love it. But I can appreciate it, because we now realize how much work goes into it, just per episode. So, what you’ve done is phenomenal, and I certainly hope that people appreciate that. Incredible.

But let’s crack open the new book. So: Keto Clarity. This is a two-fold question. Why did you write the book? And, B, could you explain to people what ketosis is, if they’re not sure? I thought that would be a good place to start.

Jimmy Moore: So, yeah, so, why write the book? Quite frankly, the book has never existed before. We’ve had lots of books about weight loss and ketogenic diets. Thank you, Dr. Atkins. Thank you, Protein Power. You know, some of the ones that have been out there for a long time.

And then we’ve had a few others that talk about the treatment of epilepsy, which we’ve long known is one of the strong benefits of a ketogenic diet on health. But that’s it. And you’ve never really seen any kind of practical guide as to: Here’s how you get into ketosis and then once you’re there, here’s how you stay in it. And then if you can’t get there, here are some of the problems you’re probably doing trying to get there.
So, we tried to make like a step-by-step guide: This is how you do it. Because that’s never been written before.

I was, quite frankly, shocked, you know, when I was doing my research for the book that, hey, nobody’s ever written a practical how-to on ketogenic diets before. And then all in one place talking about the totality of health benefits that come from eating this way. It goes well beyond weight loss. Well beyond epilepsy. Which, those two things we have very strong evidence for. But there are so many other things that I’m just really excited about, and some research that’s coming.
So, that’s why Keto Clarity was born, and now that the baby’s out there, it’s really done very well, because it is unlike anything that’s ever been out there on the market before. And in fact, I was just checking before we came on the air: It’s the No. 1 nutrition book in Australia right now, on Amazon.
Guy Lawrence: There you go! That’s awesome.

Jimmy Moore: So, I’m proud of my Aussie friends.

Guy Lawrence: And it’s a beautiful book. Like, it’s so well laid-out. And I love the way that you go the, you know, there were 22 food people you had on board as well, and all the way through each chapter, you know, everything is reinforcing your message as you go through the book. And it does make it very clear to understand.

Jimmy Moore: Thank you. Yeah, we tried to do the same format. Cholesterol Clarity, when I talked to you guys last year, that was kind of the: All right. Let’s prove the concept that people will like this format, with the moment of clarity, quotes from the different experts, and then my co-authors Dr. Eric Westman, a very respected researcher and clinician with low-carb diets, and he did little doctor’s notes throughout.

And in Cholesterol Clarity, it was funny because he didn’t give a whole lot of input on Cholesterol Clarity, as much as he did with Keto Clarity. Because he’s just one of the foremost authorities on the world on ketosis. And so I really relied heavily on him, especially in those science chapters.

You’ll notice at the beginning of Chapter 16, we tell you: This is how you read scientific papers and which ones are more important as we see these headlines in the newspaper, and I know you guys have it there in Australia: “Red Meat Causes Cancer!” “Avoid the Atkins Diet Like The Plague!” And then you go and look and it’s a mouse study. So, a mouse study doesn’t do a whole lot unless you’re Mighty Mouse. And unless you’re going around saying, “Here I come to save the day!” you’re not going to have any application for your body.

So, you have to figure it out for yourself. Look for the randomized control clinical trials. Those are the ones that are really the gold standard. Unfortunately, they’re not using that standard of science on ketogenic diets. So, that is coming. In the coming years, we’ll see more and more. But right now it’s few and far between seeing those kinds of studies.

Now, you asked earlier, “What is ketosis?” That is a great question, Guy!

So, ketosis, in a nutshell, and just to keep it real simple for people, most people walking around, about 99 percent of the world’s population, are sugar burners. So, carbohydrates become the primary fuel source for their body. And then that’s what most people think of when they say, you know: “How do you fuel your body?” How do you. . . That’s why athletes carb up. Because that’s the fuel for their body.

Well, that’s if you’re a sugar burner. But ketosis shifts your body from being a sugar burner over being a fat burner. And so how do you do that? You have to eliminate the sources of sugar, and in this case it’s glucose in your body.

So, what raises glucose in the body? Oh, yeah! Carbohydrates is like the biggest way to raise glucose. So, if you lower those down, and it’s not gonna be the same amount for everybody, but if you lower them down to your personal tolerance level (and we show you how to do that in the book; how to figure out that number), and then moderate down the amount of protein. . . This is a biggie. This is probably the biggest mistake most people make on a low-carb diet is they forget, if you eat too much protein, more than your body can use, there’s this long G-word we talk about in the book called gluconeogenesis.

And that’s just a fancy-schmancy word for: if you eat a lot of protein, your liver is going to turn that protein into, guess what? Glucose. So, when glucose is high, ketones cannot be produced. So, eliminate the carbs to your personal tolerance level, moderate down your protein to your individualize threshold level. And then, guess what? All that’s left is fat to eat. So, you’re eating monounsaturated fats and saturated fats and, of course, the omega-3 fats are in there. Definitely not drinking vegetable oil. We talked about that in Cholesterol Clarity, why that’s a very bad idea.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, don’t do that.

Jimmy Moore: And so if you do all those things, you’re going to be shifting your body from using sugar and carbohydrates as the primary fuel source to being a fat and ketone burner, and that’s being in a state of nutritional ketosis.

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic.

Stuart Cooke: I just; I’m intrigued, Jimmy, about your keto journey. Any “aha” moments along the way. You know: How did you find it? What were the pitfalls? Because I think the common perception over here is, to people that don’t know a great deal about it, that it’s a wacky diet. It makes your breath smell. And, you know, it’s crazy.

So, what was your journey like?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. So, I’ve been low-carb, you heard my story at the beginning, you know, for a very long time. And low-carb; a lot of people have made low-carb and ketogenic synonymous. They are not. You have to really get sophisticated, and we can talk about that here in a second, but my journey looking into ketosis really, really seriously actually began reading a book called The Art and Science of Low-Carbohydrate Performance. It’s by these two very famous medical researchers in the low-carb realm, Dr. Jeff Volek and Dr. Steve Phinney, and they really outlined, you know: Look. If you want to get into a state of nutritional ketosis, you have to start measuring for blood ketones (and I had never heard of blood ketones before; I always thought, ketones, you pee on a stick and it turns pink or purple. That’s ketosis). But there’s much more sophisticated ways to measure now.

So, I read that book and I thought, well, dang. And I was struggling a little bit at the time, as you guys know. So, I was like, “Hmm. Maybe I should give this a go and do an experiment and, well, what the heck, I’m a blogger, let’s do it publicly.”

So, May of 2012 I started on my nutritional ketosis N equals 1 experiment. We give a whole chapter in the book about how that went and the results. But I started, and what I found was, I was not in ketosis when I started. Even though my carbs were low, I was not eating enough fat. That was a big mistake. I was eating too much protein, thinking that chicken breast was a health food. It is not. I was probably indulging in some low-carb snacks, counting the net carbs and not the total carbs. I am, like, adamant now: You have to count every single carbohydrate you put in your mouth, I don’t care if it’s made out of fiber or not, to be intellectually honest with your personal tolerance level, you have to count it all. And some people will be, like, “Well, fiber you get to subtract it because it doesn’t impact your blood sugar as much.” That’s true, but it still impacts. Even though it’s slower, it still has an impact.

So, if we’re looking at carbohydrate tolerance levels, you have to be really honest with yourself and say, “Hey, look. Thirty grams is 30 grams. And that’s what I’m gonna count.”

So, that was kind of the start of my journey and so I started bringing my carbs down pretty; I pretty much knew where my carb tolerance was. It was the protein that really had to come down, down, down, until I found that sweet spot for me and then added in more fat.

I was probably eating 55 or 60 percent fat, which by all definitions would be a high-fat diet. But I found it wasn’t enough. I needed to get close to 80 to 85 percent fat in my diet before I finally saw the ketones show up in the blood that then gave me all the health benefits that I was looking for.

Guy Lawrence: There you go. Now, I imagine that would vary from person to person, right?

Jimmy Moore: Absolutely. And we explain this in Keto Clarity. Please do not try to mimic what Jimmy Moore did. Because you may not have the crazy, messed-up metabolism that I did, being a former 400-pounder.

My wife Christine, actually, she did a nutritional ketosis for a month just to kind of “let’s test and see where you are.” Her macros came in at right around 55 percent fat instead of the 85 that I was doing. And then about 30 percent protein, which I was doing about 12 percent protein. And then 15 percent carbohydrate for her, and I was doing about; what was it? About 3 percent carbohydrate for me. And she got higher ketone levels than I did. On a totally different macronutrient ratio.

Guy Lawrence: Wow. Who do you think should; anyone listening to this, you know, if ketosis is a new paradigm they haven’t thought about before, like, who should consider ketosis, Jimmy? Do you think it’s for everyone? Does it fit all? What’s your standpoint on that?

Jimmy Moore: I think everybody should at least try it one time, just to see what it feels like. You know, certainly if whatever you’re doing now is giving you optimal results in your health, Jimmy Moore is gonna be the first one to step up and say, “Dude. Why would you stop?” Unless you’re a girl. Then I’d say, “Dudette, why would you stop?” Keep doing whatever it is that’s giving you that optimal health.

But unfortunately, you guys, you know most people aren’t healthy. More people aren’t experiencing that optimal health and they’re looking for some kind of modality that might give them that.

So, that’s the cool thing about ketosis. And, you know, if it’s all about weight loss, certainly it is a great benefits to go ketogenic to lose weight. But don’t do it just to lose weight. There are some many more benefits, and I’ve often told people: I would eat ketogenic if I never lost another pound, just for the brain health benefits. Because your brain is so optimized when you eat this way, because the brain loves fat and ketones. It thrives on those. And so if you’re depriving your body of fat, which then, in turn, is depriving your body of ketones, guess what? You’re bringing on early-onset of some of these neurodegenerative disease like dementia, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s. We’re actually finding ketosis helps with all of those things, improve them, and even prevent them from happening to begin with.

Guy Lawrence: Exactly. It’s funny, because the whole keto thing for me, like I first heard about it when; I was just telling a story because I did a talk in Tasmania, the weekend, about how 180 Nutrition got off the ground. And it was being exposed to a charity that was helping people with cancer. And when I got up there, you know, there were about 35 people in the room. All had serious issues of cancer, you know, from brain tumor to breast cancer to skin cancer. You name it. And the first thing they did was put them on a ketogenic diet. I hadn’t even heard the terms back then.

And I got frustrated, because I was seeing the results from these guys and how it was helping them. And that doesn’t get recommended even to this day, still, by doctors.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. Unfortunately, it’s a fringe thing, and I just got back from a huge paleo conference here in America called the Ancestral Health Symposium. And I was a moderator on a panel there that we talked about this very topic, Guy, of ketogenic diets and cancer. And even the practitioners on the panel were still real hesitant about saying too much too soon about it, that, “Well, we don’t really know the mechanism. We just know that it does put people on the right path to maybe not use as much chemo.”

And, you know, it’s certainly something that I would love to see more randomized control clinical trials on. It’s just when you talk about something like cancer, you know, they kind of look at ketogenic diets as the last resort after you’ve done all these chemicals and everything trying to get the cancer, and I’m certainly not bemoaning any oncologist who’s doing that; they’re trying to save their patient’s life. But I wonder, I just wonder: are we promoting that they should just eat, eat, eat whatever, which is what I’ve heard. I’ve got some family members that actually have cancer and they’re told, “Just eat whatever. If it’s Twizzlers, if it’s, you know, Coca-Cola, just get calories in your mouth.”

That is a horrible, horrible message. Why wouldn’t you want to at least starve those cancer cells of what it thrives on, and that’s sugar? Don’t feed it sugar. And then you give your body a fighting chance to maybe not have to go through as many chemotherapies as you otherwise would.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. It’s frustrating. It’s frustrating.

Stuart Cooke: So, where would be the best place to start a keto journey? Would we have to go to the doctors first and get our bloods checked and get some markers as a starting point? Or do we just dive into your book and just go for that?

Jimmy Moore: Well, I’m not a; I often tell people I’m not an MD, RD, Ph.D., or any D after my name. I’m just a Joe Schmo out here that lost some weight and got his health back and now is kind of a; I consider myself like an empowered patient trying to be a patient advocate of helping people grab back control of their own health.

I know we talked about this with Cholesterol Clarity. People have abdicated their responsibility for their health to that man in the white coat. And they’ve said, “OK. Whatever that person says for me to do, I’m gonna do in my health,” not realizing that person has no training in nutrition, really no education in how to deal with formulating a really good diet.

And so I definitely would not make any recommendations for anybody. Definitely consult your physician if you have any questions. But this book is ready-made for somebody to test on themselves and try and just see how you do. I mean, there’s certainly no harm, because guess what? We’re talking about real food. That’s it. We’re not talking about some wacky green tea supplement or raspberry ketones or any kind of weird things that are out there in our mainstream culture. We’re talking about eating bacon and eggs cooked in butter for breakfast.

Guy Lawrence: I’ve got to ask you a question as well, Jimmy, just for the listeners. Because for so many people it’s so hard to get their head around that they can eat fat. Like, as a natural fat. We’re not talking about the homogenized or the manmade fats or whatever.

You know, just to hear it from you, how much fat can somebody eat, if it’s natural?

Jimmy Moore: So, yeah. Trust me, Guy. This was the hardest chapter in the whole book to write, because I know people are fat-phobic. In Australia, in America, and around the world we grew up propagandized that fat’s gonna make you fat, fat’s gonna clog your arteries. It’s just like when I saw the Atkins diet for the first time I’m like, “Man, this guy is wacked out. What are you talking about eating all that fat?”

And I think how much is enough will depend on your satiety signal. I think first we need to dial in those things that are making you hungry, so, that’s the carbohydrates in excess and that’s the protein in excess. So, you dial those in to your personal tolerance and your individualized threshold levels and then what we say in the book is: Eat saturated and monounsaturated fats primarily. So, that’s: butter, coconut oil, meats, cheese, cream, avocado, avocado oil, macadamia nut oil, all those kinds of fats. You eat those to satiety.

So, when you bring down the things that would drive your hunger, it may not take as much fat to make you satiated. And one of the cool things about ketosis is it gives you a natural satiety. But you get that satiety because you’re eating enough fat.

So, what we tell people is limit the carbs, moderate the protein, but then have fats to your satiety signals. So, you kind of learn, “Oh! This is what my body’s supposed to feel like. I’m not supposed to be hungry and jittery at 10 o’clock in the morning. And after I just ate two hours before that nice bowl of oatmeal with margarine in it and a glass of orange juice, and I’m wondering why I’m hungry so soon.

Stuart Cooke: Absolutely. It makes perfect sense. Eat till you’re full. Your body will tell you when it’s full. I guess our body is smart enough to let us know when we’ve had enough.

Jimmy Moore: Well, and one of the quotes that my co-author gave in the book, Dr. Eric Westman, he said in Asian countries, they have kind of this old proverb of: “Eat till you’re 80 percent full.” So, you’re not stuffing yourself but you’re kind of getting to that imaginary point: “Oh, I’m at 79.9 percent.” No, I’m just kidding.

So, you get to that imaginary point in your brain of, “OK, I’m satisfied. I don’t need any more food.” And that’s a beautiful place. And the cool thing about this way of eating is you’ll feel satisfied and you’ll be able to go hours upon hours after finishing your meal without feeling hungry again.

How many people walk around in this world, they eat breakfast at 7 a.m. and they go, “Hmm, I wonder what I’m gonna have for lunch?” While they’re still eating their breakfast.

Stuart Cooke: “I know. We’re so focused on that.”

Jimmy Moore: That happens all the time. We are so “breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner, snack, midnight snack.” And we’ve got to get out of the mentality you need to eat that much. Even the dieticians promote that: “Oh, you need to keep your blood sugar under control and keep it nice and steady throughout the day, so eat little small meals every couple of hours.” And I’m going, “No! I eat one to two times a day, and that’s it. I don’t need to eat any more.” And do you know how freeing it is to not have to eat constantly? It’s great.

Stuart Cooke: Absolutely. It’s liberating. We’re just following the carbohydrate train, aren’t we? Up and down and up and down. That’s what we’re doing.

Jimmy Moore: Yep. A rollercoaster ride.

Stuart Cooke: So, tell us about the; you mentioned the ketone sticks originally. Perhaps they weren’t the best way to measure our levels. So, what do we do now?

Jimmy Moore: So, as I was mentioning the Volek and Phinney book, they talked about this thing called blood ketones. But let’s back up and let’s explain why urine ketones aren’t that great.

So, the keto sticks are traditional. You pee on the stick. It’s a little container of 50 of them for about 15 U.S. dollars. And you pee on the stick, it turns pink to purple, and when you first start off, that’s probably a good way to measure for ketosis. Now, the name of the ketone body in the urine is called acetoacetate. OK? So, what you’re detecting is the ketone body, acetoacetate, spilling over into the urine. All right. Great. It’s changing a color. I’m in ketosis.

But then something interesting happens when you are in this ketosis for a couple of weeks. Suddenly, you pee on the stick and guess what? There’s no change. And you haven’t had carbs and you’ve moderated your protein and you’re doing all the great things and suddenly there’s no more acetoacetate. What’s going on?

Well, acetoacetate actually gets converted once you become keto-adapted, and there is this adaptation period of a couple of weeks to four weeks in some people. For 410-pound Jimmy Moore, probably two or three months. But you have this adaptation period. And once you become adapted that acetoacetate then turns into the blood ketone. And that’s called betahydroxybuterate.

And so that’s why measuring for blood ketones, like Volek and Phinney talked about, is so critically important.

Now, you guys are really lucky there in Australia because you have a meter called FreeStyle Optium. It’s the exact same one we have here in America called Precision Xtra but the strips for your FreeStyle Optium are like 70 cents Australian dollars. Here in America, those same strips are about 4, 5, 6 dollars apiece. And so it can be very expensive. There are different ways, and I’ve tried to work with the company to get them to get on the bandwagon of nutritional ketosis.

And it’s funny: now that they book’s out there, people are starting to call the company that makes them, and they’re, like, “You know we want these strips but we can’t spend $5 apiece. What can you do?” And when I tried to convince them there’s a market out here for it, they were like: “Oh, all we care about are diabetics, for this thing called diabetic ketoacidosis.” They were not at all interested in people wanting to do nutritional ketosis.

So, I’m hoping with all those tens of thousands of books that are out there now that people will flood them with calls and say, “Hey, we want this.” Because, quite frankly, they’re just being idiots leaving money on the table because it’s a great business opportunity for them to expand their market.

Guy Lawrence: And I think just; you triggered something saying “ketoacidosis.” That’s another thing people get confused with.

Jimmy Moore: Let me explain that one in a minute. Let me finish the ketones story, because there’s one other ketone body in the body that you need to be aware of. But the blood ketones, Volek and Phinney say, should be between .5 and 3.0. When I first started my experiment: .3.

So, I was below the level of ketosis. I’m like: Hmm. Now we’re getting somewhere as to why I was struggling.

So I started testing that. So, now there are some really interesting ones that have come along measuring for the third ketone body that’s in the breath is called acetone, and there’s actually only one meter right now, it’s this guy that has epilepsy, he lives; he’s an engineer, of all things, that lives in Sweden. And he wanted to; he didn’t like the messiness of peeing on a stick and he didn’t like the prick and the very expensiveness of measuring for blood ketones. So, he went and tried to find a breath ketone meter. He couldn’t find one. So, he made one. He’s an engineer, and he called it Ketonix, K-e-t-o-n-i-x, and he started sharing it with his friends: “Hey, check this out” and they wanted one. And then they wanted one and their friends wanted one. So he’s like, “Well, maybe I should make this into a business.”

So, now Ketonix.com is out there. Right now, he’s the only commercially available breath ketone meter on the market. But there are a lot more on the way. There’s one in Arizona here in America that’s working on a breath ketone meter that she’s trying to get FDA approval for. And then in Japan, on your side of the world, they’re actually working on an iPhone app that you would connect to your iPhone and you blow into it and it’ll give you a breath ketone reading. And the breath ketones correlate pretty well to betahydroxybuterate in the blood.

So, those are the three was that you test for ketones. And if you don’t know where you stand, you really can’t tell if you’re in ketosis or not. Don’t assume, just because you’re eating low-carb, that you’re in ketosis.

Guy Lawrence: Is it something you would probably measure for a month and then after that you wouldn’t know when you’re in ketosis, or is this something you would keep monitoring?

Jimmy Moore: Well, you know, I monitored day and night and sometimes every hour on the hour for a whole year, just to kind of see. But, yeah, you’re right, Guy. After awhile, after about two or three months, I knew when I was in ketosis. And pretty much within a few tenths of a millimolar, I could predict what my blood ketones were.

And so people are like, “Well, I can’t afford to do the testing every day like you did.” And so one of the strategies that we came up with, if you don’t find the breath meter very desirable, if you want to test for blood and really get accuracy, test eight times in a month. So, sometime during the first week that you’re doing this, test in the morning. Sometime in the first week you’re doing this, test at night at least four hours after you ate or drank anything. OK?

So, then you do that over a four-week period and you see the curve. You see, you know, are you making progress or is it going down or is it just saying the same. And then you can make adjustments from there. But that’s a good cheaper way to see where you stand.

I don’t think you have to be obsessive about testing, but if you don’t test at least a little, you have no idea how well you’re doing.

Stuart Cooke: Yes. You need a starting point. And how easy is it to be knocked out of ketosis and then perhaps get back in, if, for instance you have a cheat meal?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. And it doesn’t need to take a cheat meal for somebody like me who’s really sensitive to carbohydrates. You know, I could have a 12-ounce steak and that gluconeogenesis will kick in and I’m out of ketosis. And it’s not a big deal when you’ve been in ketosis awhile and you get out of it because of the higher protein or higher carb meal. It takes about two to three days and I’m right back in again. So, it’s not that long adaptation. Once you’re in, you’re pretty much gonna stay in, unless you had like a 500 grams of carb whatever cheat. That might take a little while to recover from.

Now, you mentioned diabetic ketoacidosis versus ketosis. I definitely want to address this, because you might have noticed in the book, it didn’t say it just once or twice or three times; I think we ended up doing it about seven total times, because we’re like, we wanted to slap you over the head with it to know this is an important topic.

So, people might be going, well, I’ve heard ketosis is dangerous. Well, ketosis and nutritional ketosis like we’re talking about in the book is absolutely not dangerous. It cannot harm you. There’s no harm in being in a state of ketosis. What is the harm is for Type 1 diabetics and those Type 2 diabetics with no beta cell function – in other words, they don’t make any insulin at all – so, those are the only two people, two groups, that need to work about diabetic ketoacidosis. But catch this: The hallmark of diabetic ketoacidosis is very high levels of blood sugar and very, very high levels of blood ketones.

So, for a Type 1 diabetic or a Type 2 without beta cell function, let’s say they have a high-carb meal but they don’t shoot themselves with insulin. What’s gonna happen? Predictably, their blood sugar will go way up, well over 240 milligrams per deciliter, in American terms, and that’s not good. But then the body thinks it’s starving. So then it starts raising blood ketone levels in parallel with that high blood sugar level and you have these humongous rises in the blood ketones, upwards of 15 to 20 millimolar, on the blood ketone meter. That’s a dangerous state.

Guess what? If you make any insulin at all, you can never, ever, ever, ever – did I say “ever”? – EVER get to that point.

Now, you guys know I tested day and night and sometimes every hour on the hour. The highest reading I’ve ever seen is 6.7 on that blood ketone meter, but here’s the kicker. My blood sugar at the same time: 62. Which is extremely low; it’s really, really good.

So, this is really just distortions by people who want to try to discredit ketosis. I know ketosis and ketoacidosis sound the same, but they are two totally metabolically, diametrically opposed states. And diabetic ketoacidosis can only happen in the presence of a high-carb, not low-carb, diet.

Stuart Cooke: Bingo.

Guy Lawrence: No, it’s good. Because I hear it. Definitely.

Which direction do you want to go, Stu?

Stuart Cooke: You know, I had a question. You touched upon diseases of the brain. And I have a friend who is very dear to me who has just been diagnosed with early-onset Parkinson’s Disease. Now, I am aware that, you know, high-fat diet, ketosis, would be completely alien. And this person would just be following a conventional diet. You know: processed carbohydrates. Where would we start if we were to suggest anything at all?

Jimmy Moore: So, we actually have a few pretty decent studies of about a year that. . . a very high-fat, very low-carb diet, which would be ketogenic, would help with people with Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s. You know, coconut oil, adding coconut oil to their diet is probably a great first start. One of my experts in the book is Dr. Mary Newport, and she put her husband Steve, who had Alzheimer’s disease; early onset Alzheimer’s disease, that’s what she started with. She didn’t change his diet. She kept his oatmeal and everything. But she just started adding coconut oil and MCT oil to his oatmeal.

Stuart Cooke: Was that the study where he was drawing the clocks?

Jimmy Moore: Yes. That’s exactly right. Same one.

And so she started doing that and then slowly he started getting better. And then she and I talked on my podcast, and I said, well, have you thought about maybe reducing down the carbohydrates. So, she started doing that and he saw tremendous benefits starting to happen there, and improvements in his health. That would certainly be applicable, I would think, to any neurodegenerative disease: Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s; any of those.

So, it’s definitely worth a shot to try to increase the fat and lower the carbs somehow. I’m certainly not giving medical advice, but if that was my family member, I would immediately say, “Hey, can I take control of the diet just for a little while?” And try it, because there’s certainly no harm in doing real food. And they try to put all these drugs to combat these diseases when maybe it’s not a drug deficiency; maybe it’s a fat deficiency, and too much carbs.

Stuart Cooke: No, that’s great. And it makes so much sense to provide your body with such a fantastic source of fuel for the brain in a time when I think we’ve gone through a prolonged period of too much starvation for the body because we just don’t get all these nutrients on a conventional diet.

Jimmy Moore: Literally starving your brain. And, you know, people are like, well, aren’t you worried about heart disease with the saturated fat? And I’m like, “You know what? I’m over that. I care about my brain health too much to deprive my body of saturated fat.” Did you know you have 25 percent of all the fat in your body is right there. Right there in your head. And so they don’t call us “fatheads” for no good reason. I mean, we are fatheads. And guess what? If you’re not feeding your body that fat that it needs to have raw materials to fuel that brain, why are we surprised when people start getting dementia? Why are we surprised when you start having those senior moments. Now, we laugh about those in our culture. It’s not funny.

And then, you know, we just had a very tragic death of Robin Williams, a great entertainer. I wonder: Was his brain fat-deprived? It got him to be so depressed that it got him to kill himself.

You know, there are things we’ve got to talk about, and I think ketosis is a big part of the answer to that.

Stuart Cooke: Absolutely right. I’ve got; just had another thought popped into my head when we were talking about fat as well. Gallbladder. So, my friend’s had his gallbladder removed. It’s quite common.

Jimmy Moore: Do you know when?

Stuart Cooke: Recently.

Jimmy Moore: OK. Real recently. OK.

Stuart Cooke: So, he has been told, “You’ve got to steer clear of fat.”

Jimmy Moore: That’s what they say.

Stuart Cooke: That’s what they say. So, what’s your take on that?

Jimmy Moore: So, my wife Christine actually; let me see if I can get Christine to make a cameo. Come here, Christine. I want everybody to see. See, she’s never on, like, my video podcast that I do so I want to show; are you. . . There she is. OK. She’s like brushing her hair back. It’s like nighttime here in America, so. . .

All right. Come to the camera. She’s coming. There is the beautiful part of Jimmy Moore.

Stuart Cooke: Hi, Christine, how are you?

Guy Lawrence: Hi, Christine.

Jimmy Moore: They’re saying hello.

Christine: Hi.

Jimmy Moore: Say hi.

Christine: Hi.

Jimmy Moore: All right, cool. Bye, honey.

So, she, in 2000; your gallbladder. . .

Christine: Six.

Jimmy Moore: Had it taken out and it took. . .

Christine: About a year for me to be able to start eating fat again. Is that what you wanted to know?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. So, she had to build up an adaptation to the fat again, and it was a slow journey, right?

Christine: Yeah. I found that if I ate too much, too quickly, my liver didn’t know how much bile to produce and so after awhile your body just knows how much bile to produce once you’ve been eating this way awhile.

Jimmy Moore: And now the woman eats more fat, almost, than I do sometimes. She loves, what is it? Five slices of bacon for breakfast in the morning.

Christine: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Bacon every day.

Jimmy Moore: Thank you, honey.
Christine: You’re welcome.

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic. So, it’s a process, right?

Jimmy Moore: It’s a process. And about a year later, she was able to ramp her fat back up. And I’d say she probably now eats about 55, 60 percent of her diet is fat, whereas maybe that year, like your friend, Stu, probably 25 percent, 30 percent the first year and you just kind of like work your way up to get back to that level again.

So, I don’t think it’s a forever and ever you have to eat low-fat and avoid fat like the plague. You need fat. Fat is one of the macronutrients that is essential. So, that’s why they talk about essential fatty acids. They talk about essential protein. Guess what? There’s no essential carbohydrates.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. Absolutely right. That’s awesome advice. And it’s just, yeah, I’m so intrigued to look at conventional advice and then talk to people who are just questioning this. Because, you know, we’re all so very different and perhaps, you know, we can just dial in to these little intricacies that will take us on a better health journey.

Jimmy Moore: Right. You guys realize you got like an exclusive. I’ve never had Christine come up on any podcast.

Guy Lawrence: That’s awesome.

Jimmy Moore: You’re special, man!

Stuart Cooke: I feel special.

Guy Lawrence: Definitely. Just to tie it up, we won’t take too much more of your time, but I saw you put out a blog post a couple of days ago regarding what a journalist had been writing about ketosis and the diet and with the claims. And I thought, you know what? That would be really just a couple of good points to touch on because that’s what we’re hearing all the time. So, pull a couple of the claims up and I thought you could address them on the podcast.

And one of them, the first claim was: Your brain and muscles need carbs to function.

Jimmy Moore: That is what they say, isn’t it? In fact, they claim needs 130 grams at least of carbohydrate a day. And you know what I say, Guy? They’re 100 percent exactly right. Dot, dot, dot. . . if you’re a sugar-burner. Because if you’re burning sugar for fuel, your brain does need that. Otherwise, you’re gonna be starving it of the glucose that it needs. Because the brain can function on glucose or fat and ketones.

So, if you’re a sugar-burner, you’d better darn well be getting plenty of carbohydrates in your diet. Otherwise, your brain’s gonna be going; you know, people kind of get that foggy brain and they’re going, “Oh, why do I feel kinda cranky?” That’s it. You’re stuck in sugar brain. So, you’ve got to feed it sugar to make it happy. That’s why when people say, “Well, I didn’t do well on low-carb diet, and I added back carbs and I felt better,” I’m like, “Yeah, because you never fully made the switch over to being a fat-burner.”

So, when you’re a fat-burner, that is idiotic advice to tell people to eat that many carbohydrates, because that is counterproductive to making the ketones.

So, you can choose: sugar-burner or fat-burner. And if you’re a fat burner you’re gonna, you know, fuel your brain with fat and ketones. If you’re a sugar-burner, you’re gonna do it with carbs.

Guy Lawrence: And I think, as well, if somebody; a lot of people have been a carb-burner their whole life. You know? And if the body’s gonna adjust, it’s not gonna happen overnight like if you’re been doing it for the last. . .
Jimmy Moore: Two to four weeks for a lot of people, right around two to four weeks.

Guy Lawrence: Another claim was: Low-carb diets eliminate entire food groups.

Jimmy Moore: You know I love this one, Guy, because they never say anything about vegans removing whole food groups. And I would argue whole food groups that are nutrient-dense foods they should be eating. So, yeah, this is; and then they consider, like, whole grains being a food group. Whole grains are not a food anything. I don’t consider them a human food. You have to highly process grains in order for them to even be humanly consumable. And so that’s one of the things that they’re talking about removing whole food groups.

But here’s the kicker. You’re not really removing anything. You’re just limiting to your personal tolerance levels, but you’re not removing. I mean, I still have 30 grams of carbohydrate. Is that “removing” the food group of carbohydrate? No. It’s just limiting it down, knowing that I have a certain tolerance level. These people say, “Well, just eat everything in balance.” I’m like, “How much arsenic do I have in balance?”

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: Well-addressed. And the last claim was: Don’t do a low-carb diet for more than six months.

I hear these things as well.

Jimmy Moore: I know. And these are things that are put out there in our culture, and this was a very prominent article on a website, Philly.com, I think it’s associated with the Philadelphia Inquirer, which is a major newspaper here in America. I actually wrote to this journalist, by the way, after this, and I said, “You know, if you want the truth, I’m happy to talk to you about what a true low-carb ketogenic diet is.” But I never heard back from her. And didn’t expect to.

I later found out a lot of her posts are pro-vegan. So, take that for what it is.

So, no more than six months. I’m thinking, so at the end of six months of being on low-carb diet and I’m seeing great results and getting great health, then how am I supposed to eat? What’s my next step? If I’m thriving in that state of eating, why would I change?

It’s a logical question to ask. Now, if you’re not seeing results after six months, by golly, change. Do something different. But if you’re seeing results and improvements in your health and your weight, why would you change anything?

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Absolutely.

Stuart Cooke: Perfect sense. It makes sense.

So, what’s next for Jimmy? Any more clarity books?

Jimmy Moore: Jimmy needs a break from writing, because he wrote two books in one year. That was a lot, you guys.

So, I actually did just sign a contract with my publisher for a follow-up to Keto Clarity that I’m gonna collaborate with this American blogger and Author named Maria Emmerich. Do you guys know her?

Guy Lawrence: I haven’t heard of her name, no.

Jimmy Moore: Ah. Well, you’re gonna find out about her. She was one of my experts in Keto Clarity and so we quoted her throughout the book, but my publisher said, hey, we’d love to have a cookbook. And I’m going, “Do you know how Jimmy cooks? He takes a bowl and he throws stuff in the bowl here and there and I don’t measure anything.” Like a quarter cup of this and a teaspoon of this. I don’t use this at all. This is not something I would use.

And so Maria does. Maria is really good at. . . doing all those measurements and taking beautiful pictures. So, we both are very enthusiastic about ketogenic diets. So, we’re gonna collaborate on a ketogenic diet cookbook that will be coming out sometime around summer; next summer.

So, that’s kind of the next one. Not as much writing for me for that book as it has been the last two books.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. I can imagine. And you’re coming to Australia soon, right, as well?

Jimmy Moore: I am. The low-carb Down Under tour is coming back, and we’re actually gonna go to a lot more cities this time than we did the last time. We’re definitely gonna hit all the biggies: Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, the Gold Coast this time. We’re gonna go to Tassie this time. (Tasmania, for my American friends.) Perth this time.

So, we’re definitely gonna try to hit, like, all the major ones. But that’ll be in the month of November. And, in fact, before I come over to Australia, on the way over, I’m gonna stop in New Zealand with Grant Schofield and his group and do a talk in Auckland, New Zealand on like that Thursday night before.

So, definitely check out my social media stuff and we’ll share all about that real soon.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, definitely. And keep us posted, because we’ll share across our channels as well once we get closer to the date.

Jimmy Moore: Awesome. Thank you.

Guy Lawrence: And in the meantime, if anyone wants to get more of Jimmy Moore, where do they go? Jimmy?

Jimmy Moore: “More of Jimmy Moore.” I love saying that. “More of Moore.”

Well, so, the book, Keto Clarity, if you’re interested in that, we have a website KetoClarity.com. We have all kinds of media pages. We have a sample chapter from the book. I think the introduction is the sample chapter of the book. And then I did the audiobook to my book as well. It’ll be on Audible real soon, but we have a sample of that. I believe it’s chapter one. We have the sample of where I actually did the reading. When you’re a podcaster, people want to hear your voice. So, I did the reading of that.

And then if you want to find out more about my work, it’s LivinLaVidaLowCarb.com or if you Google “Jimmy Moore,” it should be everything on the front page is all my stuff.

Guy Lawrence: Awesome. Mate, that was brilliant. You are such a wealth of knowledge.

Jimmy Moore: Thank you.

Stuart Cooke: Yep. Absolutely. Fantastic. We’ve learned so much and we can’t wait to share it as well. It’s gonna be great.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Awesome. Thank you so much, Jimmy, for your time, mate. And look forward to seeing you when you get to Australia.

Jimmy Moore: We will see you guys in Oz, man. Rock it!

Stuart Cooke: Thank you.

Guy Lawrence: Thanks, mate.

Does food influence our thoughts?

180 Nutrition Month of the Brain

By Guy Lawrence

Everything you have ever experienced, felt, or conducted in life is due to brain function…. It is impossible for a person to become healthy mentally or physiologically without a healthy brain.Datis Kharrazin DHSc, DC, MS, MNeuroSci

Month of the brainAfter kicking off the new year with the month of the gut, A.K.A the second brain, we thought we’d move north and check out the most powerful computing system there is; The Human Brain.

Even though there is a known common distinction between mind and body, I view things a little differently. We already know that having a healthy heart or liver is a direct result of the foods we eat, and the lifestyle choices we make, so why would the brain be any different? After all it’s all housed under the same roof, and that to me simply means it’s still part of the same thing.

Then the burning questions for me are: More

The year of great health: Lose weight & raise energy fast

By Guy Lawrence

Want to start your year the right way? Are you planning a New Years Resolution of great health, weight loss or exercise?

FACT: There are 10 times more bacterial cells in your body than human cells. If your gut bacteria balance is out, studies show that this will directly effect fat absorption. So yes, if you have a unhealthy gut, you will struggle to lose weight.

Win a free gut health consultation

If you live within Australia, we will pay for you to have a gut health consultation with a qualified practitioner and also a months worth of prescribed supplementation to help fix the gut if necessary.

What do you have to do? It’s super simple to enter… More

Start the year the right way with *I Quit Sugar* eBook by Sarah Wilson

sarah_wilson_ebookBy Guy Lawrence

Are you are about to roll into the New Year on a health kick? Why not do it with a little support and community to encourage you on?

Every once in a while something comes along that I will happily and shamelessly plug, simply because it’s really that good!

In my view, one of the most fundamental actions you can take to improving your overall health is kicking the sugar habit. Sarah Wilson’s eBook: I Quit Sugar has captured this beautifully.

Not sure if you have ever tried getting off the sweet stuff, but as simplistic as it sounds, the reality is very very different. I’d encourage you to follow those who have already been down that path with laid out simple and sensible techniques that make the journey a whole lot easier. This eBook truly covers it well.

What’s Inside the Book?

  • A sharp 8-week program that walks you through each crucial stage, week by week
  • A tidy, easy-to-relay-to-mates-at-the-pub explanation of how + why sugar is making us fat + sick
  • A sugar replacement plan: tested + nutritionally sound
  • “Sweet” sugar-free recipes
  • New treat ideas
  • A detox + a suggested supplements list
  • A downloadable shopping list of new ingredients to replace sugar in your life

The added bonus of getting Sarah’s book this week is that she will be holding your hand every step of the of the way during the next 8 weeks through her blog.

Just remeber, sugar is sugar no matter how healthy or organic it sounds! Good luck!

Sarah Wilson’s eBook: I Quit Sugar