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Beyond Food Allergies & Sensitivities; Understanding Histamine Intolerance


The above video is 2:44 minutes long.

Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

They say you learn something new everyday, well we certainly did with todays guest! If you or anyone you know are struggling with symptoms like IBS, food allergies and intolerances, acid reflux, migraines, hives, insomnia, chronic fatigue (the list goes on!)… then looking into and understanding histamine intolerance is well worth your time.

low histamine chef yasmina ykelenstam

Ex-CNN/BBC journalist shares with us how she heals her chronic inflammatory condition.

We have another awesome guest for you in store today and her name is Yasmina Ykelenstam. She’s an ex-journalist with over 10 years research and international news production experience for people such as 60 Minutes, CNN and the BBC, so she knows how important it is to get her facts straight!

In 2008, after 20 years of being misdiagnosed with everything under the sun, she was forced to quit a career of a lifetime after seeing over 68 doctors. In 2010 she was finally diagnosed with histamine intolerance. Yasmina then embarks on a mission to get to the bottom of it all with the help of nutrition, lifestyle, meditation and a different approach to exercise… Prepare to be inspired!

Full Interview: Histamine, Food Allergies, Skin Care & Meditation

In This Episode:

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  • From journalist to health advocate; her story
  • What is histamine & the role it plays
  • How to test for histamine intolerance [07:28]
  • Why fermented foods were not the best choice
  • The ‘Natures Cosmetics’ she uses for her skin
  • Why meditation has played a big part in her recovery
  • And much much more…

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Full Transcript

 
Guy:Hi this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition and welcome to today’s health session. We have another awesome guest for you in store today and her name is Yasmina Ykelenstam. She’s an ex-journalist with over 10 years research and international news production experience for people such as 60 Minutes, CNN and the BBC so she knows how important it is to get her facts straight which is a big one and she has an amazing story to share with us today.
In a nutshell, in 2008, after 20 years of being misdiagnosed with everything under the sun, she was forced to quit a career of a lifetime after seeing over 68 doctors she reckons. In 2010 she was finally diagnosed with histamine intolerance. If you’re unsure what histamine is don’t worry about it, I think it’s actually really relevant for everyone and we do explain there in the podcast today and Yasmina’s explanation is going to be much better than mine so hold for to that.
She goes into that, how she’s radically changed her nutrition and lifestyle, her exercise approach and started including meditation as well, which I will add and we do discuss all awesome topics and how she’s pulled her life around and is a great example of what a bit of determination can do and change and now she’s out there spreading the word as a low histamine chef and doing an awesome job of it and we were just very privileged and proud to have her on the podcast today and she was a lot of fun, she was great, superly down to earth. Superly, could I say that word? Anyway I’ll stay with it. Top girl, great to have her and you will get a lot out of it to enjoy. Of course any feedback please send us back to info@180nutrition.com.au. You can go into our Facebook page, 180 Nutrition write on the wall. We generally get round to them all as [00:02:00] quick as possible.
This is the part where I’m going to ask for a review, I do it every episode and I probably will just leave it at that. If you enjoy the podcast leave us a review on iTunes and they really are appreciated. Anyway, let’s go over to Yasmina and the low histamine chef, enjoy. Okay, let’s go for it.
Hi this is Guy Lawrence, I’m joined with Stewart Cook, hi Stu.
Stu:Hello Guy.
Guy:Our fantastic guest today is Yasmina Ykelenstam. Did I pronounce that correct?
Yasmina:Nearly Ykelenstam.
Guy:Ykelestam and I even practiced it before the show as well oh God, hopeless. Thank you so much for coming on the show today Yasmina. We’ve got some amazing topics to cover, but more importantly could you share your absolutely fascinating story with us as well and our listeners because it think it’s just fantastic.
Yasmina:I’ve been sick most of my life, on and off, with strange symptoms, allergy-like flues that weren’t flues, IBS, hives those kind of things. Then it really intensified when I was a journalist working in war zones in Iraq and Lebanon and eventually it got so bad that I had to quit my job and I had to find a career, a business that I could run from my bed basically which was I did some marketing and I used to pull on a shirt pretend I was sitting up in an office but really I’d be lying in my bed because I was so sick and nobody could tell me what it was.
Then finally I came across some woman in a … Not some woman, she’s a very good friend of mine, she’s also a blogger too and she told me it might be a histamine issue. I was in Bangkok at this point and I flew straight from Bangkok via New York, all the way to London and I got a diagnosis of something called histamine intolerance which I will get into in a minute and then it was I was then re-diagnosed with something called mast cell [00:04:00] activation. It’s not really clear, I seem to have both or maybe they are kind of the same thing but in any case it all worked out in the end and I’m feeling much better.
Guy:How long ago was that Yasmina?
Yasmina:The diagnosis?
Guy:Yeah.
Yasmina:The first was in 2010 and then the second diagnosis was in 2013.
Stu:There you go.
Stu:For everybody out there so for our listeners who are unfamiliar with histamine, now in my very limited knowledge I’m thinking it’s the kind of reactions that I used to get when I had high fever as a child, with stuffy, itchy, watery eyes and I just want to … Could you just touch on the role of histamine, what it is, what it does to the body?
Yasmina:That’s basically it. Histamine, we are used to hearing about anti-histamines, most people have histamine reactions. Histamine is an inflammatory molecule that lives in mast cells which are part of our white blood cell system. But it’s also found in foods. Histamine’s job is if there is some healing that needs to be done, the mast cells break open and histamine and other inflammatory mediators go to the site of the infection and begin the healing process. But as I said, it’s also found in foods, but also, histamine’s role is diverse in the body. As I said, it’s an important player in the healing process, it’s a neurotransmitter which affects serotonin and dopamine, it plays a role in our metabolism in weight gain and weight loss, it’s part of the digestive process and it also helps set the circadian rhythm so our wakefulness cycle and it’s now been shown to be involved in narcolepsy.
Guy:Wow. What would the symptoms be of histamine intolerance? Everything? [00:06:00].
Yasmina:Pretty much everything which is why it takes an average, I’m going to use mast cell activation as an example here but it takes up to a decade or rather an average of a decade for the average woman to be diagnosed with mast cell activation which is related to histamine intolerance. A decade because the symptoms are so incredibly diverse and they rotate, and they migrate from different parts of the body as different clusters of mast cells become activated and depending on diet, which part of the world you live in.
In any case, here are some common symptoms, there are literally dozens of symptoms. I had 55 symptoms that were directly attributable to histamine intolerance or mast cell activation. Here are a couple of them otherwise we’ll be here all night. There’s IBS, acid reflux, food intolerance-like issues, migraines, hives, insomnia, blurry vision, palpitations, chronic fatigue, intolerances to extremes in temperature, and inability to fly in planes because of the vibration and changes in pressure, food allergy-like symptoms and in the extreme, idiopathic anti-epileptic shock, idiopathic meaning we don’t know why.
Stu:Okay, well, given that very varied and almost crazy list of symptoms, how can we test for it?
Yasmina:With difficulty, the first step is finding someone who believes you and on my website, there’s a post which you can print off medical studies and take them to a doctor with you but I’ll tell you how to get there later. I’ll start will histamine intolerance. Histamine intolerance is generally diagnosed by a high blood plasma which is the overall [00:08:00] amount of histamine in your blood. A result of a low di-amine oxidase enzyme in the body. Di-amine oxidase is one of 2 histamine lowering enzymes, it’s also known as DAO. The other is HNMT but that right now can only be tested for in your genetic profile and some people say that the only definite way to diagnose this is by having a decrease in symptoms when going on a 4 week histamine elimination diet.
Some people, a lot of people walk away with a false negative from the testing for this because there’s many causes for histamine issues, you don’t have to have low DAO and your plasma histamine can be low one day and very high the next depending on your stress levels, what you’ve been eating, all that kind of stuff. Generally I would say, look for allergy-like symptoms with negative allergy tests and by these I mean IGE testing rather than IGG which is the food sensitivity testing.
As I said, plasma histamine fluctuates so it’s a little difficult. Also there is the issue that you can have a relatively normal histamine level but if your other inflammatory mediators are elevated, such as prostaglandin, interleukins, leukotrienes, that kind of thing, the other inflammatory mediators that are also housed in the mast cells along with the histamine, they can potentiate whatever level there is of histamine. If there is already some kind of inflammation going on, let’s say the histamine is normal, prostaglandins can enhance the effects of any histamine that’s being released in the body. Plus if you have excess leukotrines, that then enhances the prostaglandins and the histamines.
Just testing for plasma histamine is not very [00:10:00] reliable. For mast cell activation syndrome, it’s urinary test of n-methyl histamine. It’s a 24-hour test so you get an idea of the level throughout the day. It’s the prostaglandins, the other inflammatory mediators I just mediators that I just mentioned, and then something that’s also very important in my view is I’m finding more and more people are having a problem with something called oxalic acid which is found in plants. It’s a plant defense mechanism and it can cause major inflammation in people who are already dealing with some kind of inflammation.
It’s found in kale, almond, celery, zucchini, for example. What happens is when we get sick, we try and get really, really healthy and so a lot of what we do is we eat high histamine foods, by accident the avocados, the tomatoes, the pineapples, because we’re told all these are great for us and lots of nuts and all of that, they’re also high histamine, then we are adding lots of oxalic acid into the mix with the kale, the almonds, all of these wonderful plant foods. If there is an existing inflammation issue, these can temporarily aggravate the issue. I’m not saying don’t eat these foods, these are all the foods that I eat, but it’s good to be aware of it.
Guy:Wow. There’s a couple of things that spring into mind, the first thing is I’m going to have to listen to that again once I get off this conversation to make sure I fully understand what you just said. But on top of that, where would you start? Because you’re naming foods that people assume are healthy so unless you get the diagnosis correct, you could be continually triggering this inflammational problem off from the get-go without even realizing it.
Stu:Another point is well, I’m thinking Yasmina from a bloke’s perspective, my blokey way to fix that would be to run down to the chemist, get some Claritin, take a swig of [00:12:00] Claritin and see what happens. Does that fix it? That kind of … Well, maybe it’s a histamine problem if Claritin works.
Yasmina:You know, funnily enough that was my ex-boyfriend’s logic which was just take a few fistfuls of antihistamines and if it works it works. By this point I was already on a few antihistamines a day. He said, “Well how come that’s not working for you? This obviously isn’t it.” Poor thing was just used to hearing me talking about different theories about what was wrong with me and he had just had enough. He’s just like, this girl is just a hypochondriac. Which is why most of us get sent to psychiatrists actually because we’re told it’s psychosomatic.
The antihistamine issue, that’s a very good point, but there are actually 4 histamine receptors in the body. Claritin, for example, and most antihistamines work on the H1 receptor which to really oversimplify things means the respiratory system. You have a fever, you get [sniffly 00:13:00], you can’t really breathe, they give you an H1 blocker and that dries up your nose and it blocks that histamine receptor. But there’s the other 3 histamine receptors.
The H2 receptor is, again, oversimplifying, is to do with the digestive system. If you have a person who’s suffering mostly from digestive issues, they don’t really know and if they go to a doctor who doesn’t specialize in mast cell issues, they might be told, well take an H1 blocker and your symptoms should dissipate but the fact is if it’s digestive issues, an H1 blocker isn’t going to do anything.
Then there’s the added problem that a number of the doctors I’ve spoken with including Dr. Janice Joneja who is a pioneering immunology researcher who was one of the first people to research histamine issues, a concern with antihistamines is that throwing the histamine receptors out of whack can cause more histamine release into [00:14:00] the body basically. First of all you have the rebound effect which is when the antihistamine wears off, the body produces more histamine to make up for the shortfall. There’s lots of different reasons that that might not necessarily work.
That is also an issue with the histamine elimination diet by the way. A lot of people feel better after 4 weeks, myself included, and then they think, well, I’m just going to stay on it because I feel better. Then what happens is, you just keep losing foods, and losing foods, and losing foods and you’re even reacting to the low histamine foods and you’re like, oh my god, I’m just so histamine sensitive that I literally, I cannot be in a room with any histamine. Well no, the fact is your body keeps producing more and more … This is one of the theories that your body produces more histamine because you need the histamine for so many essential functions in the body and I keep trying to share with people that histamine is a good thing, it’s our friend, we just don’t want too much of it so we need to be careful, we need to find ways to balance the histamine.
Stu:If I was completely distraught and in a very similar place to where you were and said to you, just tell me one thing. What do I do right now? What one thing can I do right now? What would you advise?
Yasmina:Meditation.
Stu:Right, because we do have another question about mental stress as a trigger so [crosstalk 00:15:28].
Guy:I’ve got a question for you off the back of that. Why do you think you got if from the first place? From what?
Yasmina:There’s many different theories as to why people develop histamine issues. One is genetics, they are finding people with mast cell activation … I keep referring back to mast cell activation because we have research on that. unfortunately histamine intolerance is being treated by nutritionists and holistic practitioners … I’m not [00:16:00] saying that this is not a valid way of dealing with it, I’m saying that these people don’t normally release medical studies so we don’t have anything concrete to go by. I’m a big believer in holistic methods of treatment, just I would like the research to be able to talk to it about people. Oh no, I’ve just lost my train of thought. I did say I woke up very early today.
Guy:It’s very late over there in Paris too. That’s cool. Because I’m jumping around [crosstalk 00:16:33].
Stu:We’re on the topic of meditation and how you first thought that you came to … Where the histamine came from in the first place for you.
Yasmina:Right. We have the genetic aspect which is that in mast cell activation studies they are finding that people who have high inflammatory mediators, it runs in the families. This would apply to histamine intolerance as well, one would assume. Then there’s exposure to pesticides, to chemicals, there is viral infections. For example there’s a theory that you could have some sort of childhood virus and your immune system, once it’s dealt with, remains hyper activated. The immune system just stays in overdrive believing that there’s something to continually be dealing with but in some cases that could be true, some people have childhood viruses that remain in adult years but it remains dormant in the body unless there’s some sort of major health event in which case it can reactive.
Food poisoning has been said to potentially trigger it. Serve cases of food poisoning and serve illness of some kind, operations, that kind of thing, again the immune system remaining in overdrive [00:18:00] and trauma. I was listening to a very interesting talk by a doctor, I believe it was Milner and he was saying that the majority of his patients, they came to him and they say, I don’t know, I was so healthy, everything was going totally right, and then suddenly this traumatic event happened in my life, a car accident, a husband dying, a child dying, some sort of personal incident, and that is what triggers the mast cell or the histamine activation, which is not an uncommon thing.
There’s a great book called The Last Best cure in which the author who is a science journalist herself, she shares a questionnaire developed by a medical company in the States that can actually predict how likely you are to develop an immune system dysfunction based on the level of trauma you have had in your life. When I read the book, I just thought, okay, I grew up during a war and I went to war as an adult 3 wars. I haven’t really had really traumatic events like some people have. Some people have had really terrible, terrible things happening to them. But then I read the questionnaire, it was like, did you move once, more than once every 5 years before the age of 11? Did you ever hear your parents fighting in the next room? Did one of your pets die before you were the age of 8? I just thought, wow, I’m in trouble and I scored off the charts, off the charts.
Stu:To me when I heard what you did as a journalist, I thought, my god that’s stressful. For me personally, from an outsider looking in, I don’t know how stressful it was.
Yasmina:It was highly stressful and …
Guy:Just thinking about the sources of [00:20:00] histamine triggers as well. Outside of food, personal body care products, sun screens, all that kind of thing, would that fall into that category as well?
Yasmina:Yeah, absolutely. Bath products, even so called natural products like cocamidol betaine which I can never pronounce and the SLS which we now know are not so great for us, and various other products can cause immune system disruption that can affect the mast cells. When you consider that what we put on to our skin, I heard 60% of what we put onto our skin is absorbed into our bloodstream. That figure is contentious but it’s interesting to think. I had not really considered it before although it made complete sense.
But the good news is that when you consider that beauty products have lead in them which we thought was an urban myth but was then proven to be the case and there was a big expose on it in the New York Times, people had always told me, “No, no, no, it’s a myth, it’s a myth, it’s a myth.” It’s not a myth. When women are eating, I think it was 5 pounds of lipstick a year, it all adds up. The good news is that although there are things that can trigger us, there are other things that we can put on our skin that make us better such as moringa oil which is a natural anti anaphylactic and an antihistamine. There’s pomegranate seed oil which increases collagen production but is also an antihistamine. You have brands like Dr. Alkaitis, their product is so pure you can eat it. You can eat it. I have eaten their almond face cleanser just out of curiosity to say that I did.
There’s RMS beauty created by a woman who had multiple chemical sensitivity, she actually does the makeup for the Victoria Secret Angels, and she created this amazing range of beauty products with just the most incredible raw beauty products that treat the skin in an anti-inflammatory way and there is 100% pure which is … I don’t get anything for mentioning these things. I hope it’s okay, I just want to …
Guy:Go for it. Help people yeah.
Yasmina:Yes. 100% pure, it’s an American brand but you can buy it all over the world and their products are the cleanest I have found anywhere. Even though people write to me and they’re like, Oh so you use 100% pure but it has tomato in it. Well, when you compare a little bit of tomato or a little bit of strawberry in a face cream to phenol-exo-hetra-tetra-cyclne-adol, you know I’m just pulling from air. I know which my body triggers to more and it’s not a little bit of tomato or strawberry.
Guy:Yeah, right. To pull it back, with everything that can trigger histamine, which is incredible really when you think about it you’d be afraid to go out the door sometimes.
Yasmina:I used to be. I used to wear a mask. I was one of those weirdoes.
Guy:That’s amazing. With Steward then asking, what’s the one thing you can do right now and your answer was mediation, my question would be why probably because I sidetracked this conversation 10 minutes [crosstalk 00:23:28].
Yasmina:No worries. My life fell apart and interestingly I had my genetic profile read by somebody and I carefully chose someone because I didn’t want somebody who was sell me thousands of dollars of supplements. But I told him, look, I just want to know about the mast cell stuff, I don’t want to know about any other health issues and he says to me, “That’s very unusual, nobody’s ever told me that. You know, just ignore everything else, I just want to know about this.”
I said, “Well, you know, I, I am a high stress person, you know, [00:24:00] especially when it comes to my health and I really don’t want to know anything else because the likelihood is I’m, I’m just not going to be able to deal with it right now.” When we spoke, he started first of all by laughing at me, and I said, “What’s up?” He said, :I can now understand why you made that request. In your genetic profile, every possible gene relating to stress is in your genetic profile.” He said, “It’s my belief that you should be able to control your symptoms through stress release.”
Funnily enough about 2 years before that I had started meditation after reading this book The Last Best Cure. I was told that … I’ll come back to this later but I started meditating and I started noticing some positive changes, lots of positive changes. Then I reached the point where I thought I’m eating 5 foods, this is not working because I’m terrified of eating anything else. I came up with this really, really, crazy idea, I had been on a meditation retreat for a week and after years of restriction and misery, I ate everything I wanted on that mediation retreat. It was all vegan, it was all made from scratch there was no tofu, it was super, super healthy whole foods. I ate it all and I was fine and I just though, this is the key, this is the key. At the time, I just thought, right, this is how I’m going to get my life back. I’m done with sitting at home, I am done with not being social, I am done with thinking that my life is over…
I had made so much progress and happiness and feeling better about things but really was still stuck in this mindset of I’m never going to get better. There is only so much better I’m going to get and maybe I’ve already reached there. I read The Last Best Cure and she talked about [00:26:00] how meditation fights inflammation. I just thought, that’s when I went on the mediation retreat and after that, I came up with this idea that I could re-introduce foods as long as I stayed calm while I was reintroducing them.
I’m not suggesting anyone else try this, I don’t have any message to sell people on how to do this, talk to your doctor, your shaman, your whatever, your witch doctor but get a medical person on board. What I did was I did a risky thing, I took a bowl of strawberries and I had gone into anaphylactic shock from having 1 strawberry a few years earlier. My health was a lot better at this point. I was no longer fearful of going into regular anaphylactic shock. I have to say that I was much, much, better than I used to be.
I did a mediation, mindfulness mediation at the dinner table 15 minutes and then I started eating the strawberries one after the other, mindfully, really being in the moment, being in the experience. Just not allowing the fear and the dizziness and the anguish that accompanied every single meal in the last few years, I just let that all out. I experienced it and I saw it there in front of me and I made my peace with it. I actually said to myself, you know what? At this moment, I’m okay with letting go. Whatever happens, happens because I’m at peace. I haven’t experienced many moments like that since but it was an incredible moment and I just let go of the fear and I ate the bowl of strawberries and [inaudible 00:27:46]. That was [inaudible 00:27:48] for me.
Maybe I would have survived anyway, but the point is, I had set something in motion whereby I had told my brain and my body [00:28:00] that this was the key and my unwavering, unshatterable belief that this was going to heal me, was possibly a placebo effect but the fact is, if anyone can find that one belief, even if it’s the eating McDonald’s every day is going to heal you, it might work for a time anyway but there are more sensible ways to do it. Mine seems to have a lasting effect so far, nobody can predict the future but the point is the meditation has brought me peace and acceptance. It doesn’t mean that I’m not going to continue fighting for my life but for my recovering but I have made my peace with however it is that I wake up on any given day.
Guy:That’s amazing.
Stu:Well that is fantastic. Do you continue to eat strawberries today?
Yasmina:I do, I eat a lot worse that strawberries.
Stewart:No it sound like you certainly got a strategy that works for you. In terms of knowing where to start, there’s so much to do to try and get your head around what might be happening, what you could do. If I wanted to gravitate to perhaps some natural antihistamine foods, where would I start? What would be the best ingredients to choose?
Yasmina:That’s my personal choice is starting with those foods, so plentiful in nature. Really, I think if I had grown up in Lebanon where my mother is from where the food is just natural, you just literally just pluck it from the tree and put it on the table. My mother always commented, “When we used to go to Beirut, you never had any food issues.” She was right. That’s also because the diet was rich in these following foods.
What I have found to be my most powerful ally and that for many of my readers are bioflavonoids, quercetin, rutin [00:30:00] and luteolin. They are found in plants. They are what’s called mast cell stabilisers. There has been some amazing research by a doctor in the States, Dr. Theoharidis at Tufts. He’s funded by the National Institute of Health, he has over 300 studies on mast cells, mast cell activation and he found that these bioflavonoids, in particular, quercetin and luteolin, quercetin, the study was done on, is as powerful as the most commonly prescribed medication for stabilizing mast cells to prevent histamine release. But this is also applicable to people with histamine intolerance because quercetin acts as an antihistamine, so it works in preventing the mast cells from releasing histamine that’s in the body already and it acts as an antihistamine so when we eat dietary histamine, it doesn’t bind to the receptor in the body. It doesn’t appear to have the same side effects as antihistamines.
In any case, you can find these bioflavonoids in fresh green herbs. I eat so many green herbs. People watch me cooking and they’re like, when do you stop putting, I don’t see you measuring anything? How do you measure the herbs? I say, when it tests like one more handful is going to make things taste funky then I stop. Fresh green herbs, things like sweet potato, butter nut, squash, broccoli, most brightly colored vegetables and greens. The thing is, it gets a little confusing because you’ll have a lot of articles that say things like pineapple is an antihistamine, tomatoes are antihistamines, well those foods are found on the high histamine food list. That’s’ because partially because different parts of the fruit or the food can have different properties. The leaf can have one property, but the fruit itself can have others. Is it the combination of other nutrients or the lack of nutrients or the sugar? Things like that.
Raspberries for example are on [00:32:00] list as high histamine but they’re also a good source of quercetin. People say, well, they have quercetin but there’s an … I look for foods that have these qualities. My first choice would be rather than eating tomato ketchup, which is a processed food and is also high histamine, I will have a bowlful of raspberries because they do have some quercetin, they are anti-inflammatory but they are slightly higher histamine than blue berries for example. As I said, severe histamine restriction is not a great idea. What I do is I try and balance things by including as much of these antihistamine foods as possible, to balance out the higher histamine foods that I eat.
Stewart:Would non-organic plants and vegetable be an issue? I’m thinking along the lines of pesticides because not all of us, me included, can afford to feed a family fully organic. It gets crazy. I really increase the amount of fruit, many veggies really, I eat lots of veggies but I’m thinking, I’m washing and scrubbing but I still think they’re loaded with pesticides and nasties.
Yasmina:Yeah, scrubbing them only does so much because it’s inside the food but yes. Pesticides would be an immune system trigger which would exacerbate the histamine or mast cell issues, but at the same time, yes, it is expensive. I try and eat as much as I can organic, there have been some studies that have show that quercetin levels may be higher in organic vegetable and in organic farming. I can’t remember the reason why and that was contentious also. That was just one study.
What [00:34:00] I do is take the list of the most heavily contaminated foods and try and eat those organic and then eat the rest conventional farming. There’s money saving strategies like I eat an incredible amount of herbs and they are not always in season so what I do is I buy in bulk and I freeze. I chop them up and I freeze them. Then that gives me a year’s supply. You can go to farms and make some kind of deal with then … If you have anybody local, you can get vegetable boxes, you can … It’s tough, I would say that I spend most of the money I earn on food.
Guy:But you feel a lot better for it though right, so it’s?
Yasmina:I do but it’s a delicate balance eating a little bit left overs [inaudible 00:34:52].
Guy:What about fermented foods? Because I hear they can be a catalyst for histamine triggering as well.
Yasmina:Fermented foods a double-edged sword absolutely. We’re told they are the best way to heal the gut and yet they cause histamine release because of the bacteria. A lot of people arrive finally at histamine tolerance diagnosis or the suspicion that being what they have because they were on a highly fermented diet such as the guts for example. The interesting thing is a lot of people are eating the fermented foods to heal the gut but new research tells us that there is a mast cell involved to leaky gut, therefore quercetin and other approaches to mediating histamine and mast cell issues could be applicable to leaky gut and I had horrific, horrific, horrific leaky gut symptoms and I have to use the real name here, intestinal permeability because if we want people to take us seriously we need to use names that doctors will pay attention to.
[00:36:00] I managed to heal mine in my opinion, it might have been other factors as well but I didn’t do any L-glutamine, I didn’t do any fermented foods, I didn’t do any bone broths. Just generally I think that anyone who says that they have a healing protocol that will definitely work for you, is a little delusional or lying or has the best intentions but just we’re all different.
Guy:100%. We hear that all the time with diet too. This is the diet, this is … It’s like come on guys, really? Yeah.
Yasmina:Exactly. The first thing I tell people is the histamine lists are terrifying. Forget sticking to any one dietary dogma, forget about sticking to list. Make your own lists of foods. Trial and error, make a list of symptoms, IBS, blurred vision, blah, blah, blah. Don’t do a food diary because that’s just setting yourself up for failure. It’s like eating something and then sitting there with a notepad, what’s going on in my body? What’s going on in my body right now? Oh, I twitched, I twitched, okay.
It’s like the research on how concert violinists for example, they put them in MRI machines and the parts of the brain that get denser with neurons, the more they practice, that kind of thing. You become better at playing the violin the denser that these neurons become because you’re spending more time, more time, more time. We have become virtuosos if of our sickness. We’ve spent so much time focusing inwards, looking at what is going on in our bodies, looking for what’s going wrong. We’re intensifying our perception of these things. That is my experience, my own experience and I’ve seen it in others. That’s one of the amazing things about mediation. At times, when my symptoms were at their worst, I would go into [00:38:00] the discomfort and just accept it and release it. It’s absolutely mind-blowing.
Guy:The mindset’s massive, it’s massive. I think of Tom Gabriel when he spoke on our podcast and he was talking about chemotherapy, once somebody was diagnosed with cancer they did a study, about 30% of the people were starting to lose their hair before they even started the chemo because they were just going in and just absolutely terrifying themselves, and the body takes over, which is fascinating.
Yasmina:There was an article I was just quoted in yesterday that was on US world news, the website and world news and reporters, I can’t remember right now, sorry. But it was on the nocebo effect. The evil twin of the placebo effect. Yeah, absolutely, expect to react and you probably will.
Guy:While we’re on the topic, for any of the listeners recommend listening to our podcast with Dr. Joe Dispenza because he actually wrote a book recently called You are the Placebo. I’ve read it. He was an awesome guy but he explains that really well in the podcast so if anyone wants to check that out they can too. Yeah, let’s do it.
Stewart:I have a question. Do you support your diet with any off-the-shelf supplements?
Yasmina:I do. Again, these might not work for everybody and I’m certainly not a doctor so please don’t run off and buy these but to discuss them with a medical professional. I started out taking quercetin by a brand called Twin Lab T-W-I-N L-A-B and quercetin with vitamin C. initially I was told that vitamin C was great for histamine and mast cell issues but I reacted to all vitamin C and I thought, wow, wow, that’s another thing I [00:40:00] can’t take. But then I realized that ascorbic acid is often made from fermented corn. Fermented number 1 and corn, which is highly allergenic and is a trigger for many people.
I found the Twin Lab, coincidentally which has the vitamin C that’s made from ascorbyl palmitate, which is made from palm trees and to my knowledge is not actually fermented. That was just great. I stated taking that and then I became aware of a stronger quercetin and luteolin supplement developed by Dr. Theoharides who I talked about earlier and the mast cell researcher. He created this supplement and it changed my life.
People say that you can’t work your way up to a therapeutic dose of quercetin and luteolin through your diet. My argument to that is, well if you eat nothing but quercetin and luteolin rich foods you’re hedging your bets anyway. Even if the quercetin isn’t doing anything you have all these amazing plants foods and you’re not ingesting any garbage so you’re giving your body a fighting chance. This neuroprotek perhaps in combination with the diet, really, really changed my life. The one symptom I forget to mention earlier that is such a huge problem for many of us and was my absolute nightmare as a journalist, imagine this, brain fog and memory loss. A journalist with brain fog and memory loss in war zones.
Stewart:Not the ideal situation.
Guy:No. Eventually that played a huge part in why I left journalism because I worried that I was endangering myself and others by being out in the field. Yes the neuroprotek cleared my brain fog up entirely. Again, in combination with diet I’m sure, and it doesn’t work overnight. Dr. Theoharides told me it will take about 6 months for it to kick in, [00:42:00] and it did take 6 months for it to properly start working. All kinds of people are using it now. People with autistic kids are using it for them because … I’m not entirely sure the length of it.
Stewart:That was neuroprotek was that?
Yasmina:Yeah, N-E-U-R-O-P-R-O-T-E-K.
Stewart:For anybody wanting to access that, is that readily available on the internet?
Yasmina:It is. They sell through Amazon and also through their website. You can just google it or google Dr. Theoharidis, it should come up. Oh god, I’ll have to spell that name.
Stewart:Yeah, it doesn’t sound easy.
Yasmina:Vitamin C also [mangosteen 00:42:39] I started taking when all my hair fell out and I lost most of my hair, it was quite traumatic but that turned out to be combination of shampoo and inflammation generally and [mangosteen 00:42:50] and a little bit of vitamin B12. The [mangosteen 00:42:54] is an antihistamine, it’s a mast cell stabilizer and it also inhibits the synthesis of prostaglandins from mast cells. Histamine when it’s released, prostaglandin is synthesized as the histamine is released and they augment each other. I theorized that dealing with the prostaglandin would help with the histamine reactions and it also apparently helped my hair grow back. Prostaglandin D2, excess prostaglandin D2 is often to blame for male baldness or plays a role in it, just to remind you.
Guy:It sounds like you’ve been through so much. How do you feel now after everything listed-?
Yasmina:I feel like it was my scariest war and I felt very much like a soldier having been, well, perhaps on a crusade for many, many, many decades and I just turned 40 this year, and I’m now finally [00:44:00] experiencing health, good health for the first time since I was maybe 8 years old and it’s pretty amazing. I used to feel quite buttered and angry. I was very, very angry. I was so angry, I had the shortest fuse on the planet, I would just scream at the drop of a hat. Journalism didn’t help that very much working in war zones and being in horrible situations where you have to evacuate a team or deal with incoming fire, but there’s no room for politeness in most situations. It’s just all changed and I’m happy and peaceful and I let go of my anger. I was very angry with doctors, who didn’t spot the sickness and I was angry with … I was just angry with life and now, I don’t know. It’s so much-
Guy:That’s amazing. I know you’re inspiring so many other people with your own message which is fantastic.
Stewart:Just thinking that we’ve spoken lots about food and the catalysts for histamine reactions. Given the impact that mediation has had on your body as well, what about exercise? Because exercise can be a stresser on the body as well, so what do you do?
Yasmina:Absolutely and I wish somebody had told me this. It was very frustrating to exercise, exercise, exercise and eat really well and gain weight for most of your life. I now know it was inflammation and stress on the body and I was doing the wrong kinds of exercise. There are a lot of people with histamine … Histamine can make you collapse if you exercise too intensely. Running, lots of cardio, maybe football, things like that. Lots of cardio can upset your histamine levels [00:46:00] and cause it to spike. Now generally inflammation spikes for up to 72 hours after intense exercise as the muscles break down and the repair themselves. That causes inflammation.
In the long-term, it’s anti-inflammatory. Now for somebody who has a histamine issue, that temporary spike and inflammation can be very detrimental or even a little bit scary. I used to pass out on the treadmill, I would lose feeling in my hands and my feet. Just really horrible things. Then I read the research … That stopped me exercising for many years. I didn’t know what was going on but I became frightened of exercise and it turned out to be a great excuse because I can be quite lazy by nature. Couch potato, it was a pastime.
Eventually, I found the research on how to exercise without causing a histamine spike and it turned out that exercises in which you use your own weight, such as yoga, Pilates, things like that, or lifting weights calmly, without cardio will not cause that histamine spike. I went back to yoga. I used to practice yoga in 2000 and when I’d just started out working for CNN and although I loved it and I was doing Ashtanga which is fast paced, is the power yoga. I told my aunt one day, I just need to beat the crap out of something. I love yoga but I feel like I’m in class and I just want to beat somebody up. I think I just need something a bit more dynamic so I went to kickboxing.
I went back to kickboxing last year mostly just to prove to myself that I could. [00:48:00]I started running again, I started kick boxing. I was doing an hour and a half a day of kickboxing. I felt great. I could do it. But then the strangest thing happened, I started feeling like I wanted to beat people up again.
Stewart:Oh, okay.
Yasmina:I realized the stress hormones were just causing, because stress hormones cause mast cells to break open and dump inflammation into the body. If the mast cells are in the brain when that happens, than can affect your other neurotransmitters. It can make you aggressive, it can make you depressed, it can do so many things to the brain and it’s a topic that’s starting to be researched more now. If you go on the internet and you type in, inflammation and depression, you’ll have tons of results. I was misdiagnosed as bipolar. I believe it was a miss diagnosis because as soon as I changed my diet, I had no more episodes. Over the course of 6 months, the episodes stopped. I was a rapid cycler. I would be laughing, I would be a great mood and then suddenly bang, I’d be screaming, I’d be angry, yeah, I’m going … The beast would come out and then I’d start crying.
Stewart:Wanting to beat people is okay when you got the skills to do that so you’re on the right track.
Yasmina:Eventually I realized that the key was yoga. It combines the mediation, you’re using your own weight and even if it is cardio, the immediate inflammatory benefits counteract or seem to, at least for me and the many, many others of my readers who do yoga, it’s very, very popular, instinctively, some people just know that yoga was a big part of it for them and that they [00:50:00] needed to go do it.
Guy:It almost seems like inflammation is at the root cause of everything. It all traces back to inflammation, essentially.
Yasmina:Yeah, but I worry that it’s becoming, oh it’s inflammation.
Guy:Oh, it’s paleo, oh you eat this, oh, you’re going to do that.
Yasmina:Exactly, what’s causing that release and I’m finding for so many people, it’s trauma, unhappiness and stress.
Guy:Yeah. Hence why mediation has been such a big part. They’re some great tips. We are just aware of the time. We have a couple of wrap up questions that we do on every podcast. Very simple. The first one is, what did you eat today?
Yasmina:Okay, I had a green smoothie which was mango, broccoli, cucumber, arugula, watercress, karela, spirulina, vegan DHA which is like an omega 3 fatty acid thing and that was it. Then I had a massive, and I mean massive, my salads are these epic bowls of greens with thyme, coriander, basil, chickpeas, grilled veggies, and then I was naughty. Then I was naught. I had a homemade blueberry, wait, blueberry coconut sugar, raw vanilla, ginger coconut oil cake that I baked and it’s based on a muffin recipe that people can get for free on my website and I’ll tell them how they can get there at the end.
Guy:Perfect. That would make me be naughty too, it sounded-
Stewart:Doesn’t sound that naught. I thought you were going to talk about a milk burger or something along those lines.
Yasmina:No. I do make my own ketchup though, but I didn’t make it yesterday. If you’re a histamine person you’ll be like, oh my god you made ketchup? Yeah, yeah, I do.
Guy:[00:52:00] Do you eat meat?
Yasmina:I eat a little bit of it. I was vegan for a while but when you’re down to so few safe foods that don’t cause any kind of reaction, you have to eat whatever doesn’t bother you and meat was one of the things that didn’t bother me. I tell people that what I do is I’ll just chop up a little bit of meat and then I’ll toss it with lots of veggies or stick it in a salad or something.
Guy:Cool. The last question is … Were you going to say something Steward?
Stewart:No. Did I look like I was?
Guy:You did. You had that look there and I thought-
Stewart:I always have that look.
Guy:What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?
Yasmina:Oh wow, well, there’s 2. One was when I was falling apart and tried to check myself into a mental institution because I thought I was having a nervous breakdown, stress invaded. A friend of my mothers who picked me up from there said to me … She took my hand and she just said, “Yasmina, sometimes all you have to do is chose to walk on the sunny side of the street.”
Stewart:That’s good advice, that is good advice. I like that [crosstalk 00:53:15].
Yasmina:So true. That’s number 1 and number 2 was, and this was life changing. My doctor in Spain told me this when I was finally diagnosed with mast cell activation. She said, “If you go into anaphylactic shock, the best thing you can do is lie down on the floor and relax.” When she said that to me, I said, “What do you mean?” Because they don’t like giving EpiPens in Spain. She said, “Call the ambulance but lie down on the floor and relax. It’s the most important thing.” I just said, “What do you mean?” Then she explained to me the stress hormone thing and whatever and then that kicked off my research.
That actually saved my life. When I was in Kenya, I didn’t have any medication on me, I was too far from hospitals, couldn’t get anywhere, I was in a house, nobody could hear me, there was a [00:54:00] party going on downstairs. I lay down, well I actually fell down on the floor and I began a mediation involving a visualization before I lost my vision and I mediated and eventually I was found and I continued meditating, meditating, meditating, and it was just life changing. Just suddenly my vision started opening up again and my heart started regulating.
There’s different levels of anaphylactic shock, not every anaphylaxis leads to death. I can’t tell you, oh I had a level 5 anaphylactic and I thought I was going to die and I had never thought that before. I was convinced I was going to die this time and I got through it and that was the changing point in my life and I thought, I can control this, I can heal. This has shown me that this plays a big part.
Stewart:That’s right. There’s some truth to what you’ve been practicing. I think I like the sound of that.
Guy:Have you written a book in all these experiences that you’ve been through?
Yasmina:I’ve actually written 11 e-books. I’m working on getting a book published. I’ve written the outline and I’ve spoken with a few people that worry there aren’t enough people who are interested in this so we’ll see, I’m still working on it but in the meantime, there are eBooks for download on my website. It covers everything from beauty to diet to a little bit on mediation. I have a yoga course that’s going to launch in January. I teamed up with my teacher to do this yoga course to take people who aren’t exercising right now and it just steadily gets progressively harder more intense, to try and help the healing process. More cooking videos, there’s a bunch on YouTube and stuff like that.
Guy:Fantastic. Where would the website be?
Yasmina:It is the low L-O-W histamine [00:56:00] H-I-S-T-A-M-I-N-E chef, C-H-E-F .com thelowhistaminechef.com
Guy:We’ll be [crosstalk 00:56:07].
Yasmina:I won’t give you my full name because you’ll never be able to [crosstalk 00:56:10].
Guy:I had 2 cracks at it and got it wrong [inaudible 00:56:13], so yeah.
Stewart:That’s awkward. I can testify that here’s heaps of stuff on there. I’ve got a number of your eBooks. Men Food was great, love the paleo granola recipe, I thought that worked for me. Yeah, get on there, dig around, loads of stuff and some of the videos are entertaining too.
Guy:Yeah. Thank you so much for your time Yasmina. That was just absolutely beautiful and I have no doubt, heaps of people get a great deal from that and so I really appreciate you coming on today and sharing your journey with us. That was awesome.
Yasmina:Yeah, it’s been wonderful talking to you guys talking to you guys. Thank you very much. It’s been a great interview.
Guy:No. Thank you.
Stewart:Thanks again.
Guy:Cheers. Bye bye.

Should We Use Fluoride In Our Toothpaste?

The above video is 2:37 minutes long.

Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

Guy: No doubt about it, there’s lots of debate with fluoride on the internet. So who better a person to ask than holistic dentist who has over thirty five years in the industry.

The big question is; Should we us toothpaste with fluoride in it?

We felt this would make a fantastic topic for this weeks 2 minute gem. We also discuss fluoride at length in the full interview below.

Dr Ron Ehrlich

Our fantastic guest this week is Dr Ron Ehrlich. He  is one of Australia’s leading holistic health advocates, educators, and a holistic dentist. For over 30 years he has explored the many connections between oral health and general health, and the impact of stress on our health and wellbeing.

He is also co-host of a weekly podcast “The Good Doctors”, currently ranked amongst the top health podcasts in Australia. Together The Good Doctors explore health, wellness and disease from a nutritional and environmental perspective, looking at food from soil to plate and exploring the many connections between mind and body.

Full Interview: Unravelling the Fluoride, Dairy, Mercury & Teeth Connection

In This Episode:

downloaditunesListen to Stitcher

  • Fluoride; should we avoid it?
  • Do mercury fillings effect our health?
  • The lessons learned from the legendary Weston.A.Price
  • Do we need to eat dairy for strong bones & teeth?
  • The best approach for long lasting teeth
  • And much much more…

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Full Transcript

Guy: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition, and welcome to today’s health sessions. We have a fantastic episode for you in store today. Our guest is one of Australia’s leading holistic health advocates. He is an educator, a broadcaster, and a holistic dentist, and yes. We do tackle our topic today and get into that. He also has a fantastic podcast called The Good Doctors, and his name is Dr. Ron Ehrlich, and he has a wealth of information, and it was awesome to sit down with him for the last, I guess, 45, 50 minutes while he shares his wisdom with us.

We tackle some great topics we feel, fluoride being one of them, and this very debatable mercury fillings is another, dairy for strong bones, so we start delving into these things and what his conclusions have been after probably now, 35 years in the industry. I’m going to also talk about the legendary Weston A. Price who was a dentist back in the ’30s who uncovered some of phenomenal research as well. Awesome subjects, and yeah, you might look at the way you brush your teeth a little bit differently after this episode.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that we currently run two episodes a month generally now, and we interview a guest that we bring in, and [inaudible 00:01:17] discussed and then when we look into bringing in a third episode a month if we can fit it in. We really want to get this content out to you by just making sure we have the time, but what we’re looking at doing is a bit of a Q and A style kind of episodes where we want to answer the questions that we get coming in. If you have a question for us that you would like us to personally answer on the podcast, we will fit your question on there, and we can discuss it and topics at length, so it’d be great to get that feedback from you guys. Yeah, we’ll bring it into a third episode for a Q and A.

I really want to thank you guys for leaving the reviews as well. I’ll do ask often, but they’re fantastic. I thought I’d actually read one out. I’ve never done it before, but we do check every review that comes on. The latest one says, “Thought provoking,” by [inaudible 00:02:08]. I could read that slightly differently but I won’t. They say, “I don’t think there hasn’t been a single podcast where my jaw hasn’t hit the floor with some of the pills wisdom that have been shared. Keep them coming boys.” That is really appreciated honestly. That means a lot to us. Another review we had recently was, “Such informative podcast, five stars as well. I’ve started listening to Guy and Steve on walking and in the gym, so much more interesting than music. It feels like I’m learning while getting my daily exercise. Perfect.” Yeah. We are big advocates of doing two things at once. That’s for sure.
Look. I appreciate it. Keep those reviews coming. It’s like I said it helps our rankings and also, yeah. Keep an eye out as we bring in the third episode. Like I said, drop us an email at info@180nutrition.com.au and just mention the podcast, and we’ll take a look at tackling your questions or some. Let’s go over to Dr. Ron. Enjoy.

Hi. This is Guy Lawrence. I’m joined by Stuart Cooke as always. Hi, Stuart.

Stuart: Hello.

Guy: Our awesome guest today is Dr. Ron Ehrlich. Ron, welcome to the show.

Ron: Thanks guys. Lovely to be here.

Guy: I really appreciate having you on, mate. I seem to see your face popping up everywhere. There is a nutritional talk, a seminar on Facebook, social media, and even on podcasts. I thought it would be best for you to describe [inaudible 00:03:32] exactly what you do if you could share that with us first, because you seem to be man of many talents.

Ron: A man of many talents indeed but at the moment … What I really would describe myself is a health advocate. We’re an educator. I’m in the process of writing a book, so I’m soon I’m going to be to call myself an author, and I’m a dentist, a holistic dentist. There, a few different hats there.

Guy: It’s fantastic. Now, I remember seeing you talk quite a number of years ago. I think it was [inaudible 00:04:05]. I’ll jump in, and you walked on the stage and the first thing you said was you get asked all the time what the hell is a holistic dentist. Would you mind sharing out with us the [inaudible 00:04:17]?

Ron: Sure. Traditionally, dentists focus on the oral cavity. As a holistic dentist, what we focus on is the person attached to that oral cavity. That is a small point perhaps. It rolls off the tongue very easily but it’s a pretty important one because it then leads you into understanding what we’re looking at here is the gateway to the respiratory tract. If you think breathing is important which I think we’ll all agree it is, and sleeping well is important then this gateway is important as well. We’re also the gateway to the digestive tract, so chewing is an important first step in digestion. Getting this mechanism working well optimally is an important part of digestion. As well as that, there’s a huge amount of neurology in this area. Teeth is so sensitive that you could pick up 10 microns. A hair is 20 microns, so there’s a lot of sensitivity and neurology in this area. That’s going on and that leads us on to being involved with chronic headaches, and neck ache, jaw pain. It’s the site of the two most common infections known to man, woman, and child, tooth decay and gum disease, and almost every chronic disease is now seen as a reflection of chronic inflammation.

The big breakthrough was that people discovered that the mouth was connected to the rest of the body. No one knew that up until about 30 or 40 years ago, and that was a big, big breakthrough. Because of the decay, we implant a hell of a lot of material into people’s bodies, in fact, probably more than any other profession put together so all the other professions to put together. There’s a lot going on there and when you consider that this mouth is connected to a human being, with all those things going on, then that affects some of the decisions we make.

Guy: Right.

Stuart: Fantastic. You’ve touched upon a few topics there as well, Ron, that we want to want to delve into a little deeper down the track especially inflammation and chronic disease, things like that. We’ve got a few questions that we have to us for everybody, and they are largely hot topics in your area as well. First stop, fluoride. What’s your take on fluoride?

Ron: There’s no dentist present in this room, myself. The chance of me being stoned by someone is pretty low. It’s almost heresy for a dentist to discuss what are fluoridation in a negative sense. My take on it is this. Of the 140 or so elements there are in the world, 60 of them are required for the human body to function well, optimum. Stuff like calcium, magnesium, zinc … We could go on 60 of them. Fluoride is not one of them. Fluoride is not required for any normal biological, biochemical function, so if it’s not a required element, then it’s a medicine. If it’s a medicine, then it’s the only medicine that is put into the water supply without our individual permission. It doesn’t have regard to whether you’re a 2-month-old baby or you’re a 40-year-old building laborer who is 120 kilos or an 85-year-old woman who is 60 kilos or 50 kilos. There’s not a lot of nuance there in terms of exposure.

We’ve got a medication. There’s an ethical issue there about a medication added to the water supply which I have a serious concern about. Now going back to high school chemistry, fluoride belongs to the same family as the other halogens which are bromine, chlorine, iodine, and fluoride; therefore, halogens, right? We interviewed recently … We’ll talk about my podcast in a moment. I can’t resist getting it plugged in. Anyway, we interviewed a few months ago Professor [inaudible 00:08:23], who is talking about iodine deficiency and iodine is the biggest deficiency in the world. Two billion people in the world have iodine deficiency. Because it belongs to the same family as fluoride, chloride, iodine, fluoride, fluoride has the potential to compete with iodine for the thyroid, so it was used at the beginning of last century right up until the mid-century, mid 1900s as overactive thyroid.

When someone had an overactive thyroid, they gave them fluoride because they knew it would downscale the thyroid function. Here, if you … You guys may not take as many medical histories as I do, but as I get people coming through my surgery, many of your listeners may have been diagnosed with either underactive or overactive thyroid. It’s a huge problem in our society. I have some concerns about including something in the water supply that has the potential to affect thyroid function; that’s number one. In America interestingly enough which has been fluoridated since the 1940s or 1950s, since 1975, the incidence of thyroid cancer has gone up 160% since 1975. Is that to do with fluoride? No. I’m not saying that is. There are lots and lots of reasons why that might be the case, but that’s of concern to me.

Also Harvard University did the study … They did [mineral 00:09:53] analysis of about 30 different studies and there was some suggestion there that in fluoridated areas, IQ levels came down. There is some suggestion that it may affect bone in young men. This thing … Interestingly enough, of the 200 countries there are in the world, only about five of them, I think, it’s Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America and parts of England, they are the only ones that fluoridate. Are we saying that the rest of the world is just so ill-informed that they cannot make a sensible decision? I don’t think so. I think Scandinavia has a good history of looking at research and evidence, and there’s never been a randomized control study which is supposedly the GOLD standard about the effect of fluoride on tooth decay.

For example … I could show you a graph which showed really clearly that in those five countries, tooth decay has come down significantly over the last 30 or 40 years. You would look at it and you go, there it is. There’s proof that fluoride works, but if you go on to the UN side, the WHO side, World Health Authority, there is another graph which shows non-fluoridated countries, trending exactly the same way. What is this all about? A lot of reputation has been built on it. I know that’s true, but I have … In Europe, they do something called the … they have something called the precautionary principle. That is that if something has the potential to cause harm, why not best avoid it? I think that is definitely the better way to go because it’s a really good example of how we approach stuff in western medicine. You eat something that produces the plaque, and the plaque produces the acid, and then it makes a hole in your tooth. Therefore, let’s make the tooth harder. That’s what dentistry does, focusing just on here.

If you ask me, what is a holistic dentist, and I go, “Well, hang on.” This here is attached to the whole body. It’s got a thyroid, it’s got a brain, it’s got bones, it’s got nerves, and it’s got … We need to think about that and the precautionary principle is the one that I would endorse. To get rid of decay, it is far better to say if the hardest part of your body decays because of what you will imagine what’s going on with the rest of your body, why don’t we address what’s going on with the rest of your body and not only get rid of tooth decay, we might also get rid of a whole range of other chronic health conditions in the process.

Guy: You’ve triggered up so many questions already. I don’t know where to jump in.

Ron: In short, guys, I’m not in favor.

Stuart: Again, just to touch on this a little more, water supply aside as the ingredient in our everyday toothpaste, is that something that we should be weary of?

Ron: Now, there is some evidence to support a topical application of fluoride. We now practice use it very sparingly. I don’t personally use it in my toothpaste. I don’t personally apply it to every patient that comes through the door. If I see a tooth surface that is showing the early signs of tooth decay, just a bit of demineralization, then I will clean that surface and I might apply a fluoride varnish to that one surface and instruct my patient not to eat or drink for an hour. The rest of it is a great marketing ploy. I think there is some evidence to support topical application in a controlled way. I know you can make statistics look brilliant. You could say, “By using this toothpaste, we have reduced tooth decay by 30%.” That might be … Your chance of getting tooth decay was to have two surfaces of a tooth filled over five years, and by using this toothpaste, you’ve now got one third of the surface only required, so it’s playing with statistics.

Stuart: Totally. In a randomized study of two people, so [crosstalk 00:14:05].

Ron: I think there’s a place for very careful application of fluoride, but I don’t use it in toothpaste. We don’t use it as topical application in our practice, and we don’t … I personally don’t use it. We don’t recommend it for our patients.

Guy: Fantastic. That was what I was going to ask actually. To recap what you’ve commented on so far being a holistic dentist as well on fluoride and everything, the teeth … Would you be better off actually just changing your lifestyle and nutrition then as opposed to fixing the problem?

Ron: Absolutely. You guys and many of your listeners would be well aware of the work of Weston A. Price. He was a dentist. This is a really interesting story, but you probably haven’t interviewed Weston A. Price, but …

Guy: No. Please touch on it. Yeah, go for it.

Ron: Anyway, the point being, he in the 1920s and ’30s wanted to find out what caused tooth decay, so he went out and he visited traditional cultures around the world. He went to Malaysia, the Malaysian Peninsula, those specific islands, the New Hebrides, up in Scotland. He went to the Swiss isolated villages in the Swiss Alps. He went to Eskimos, he went North American Native Indians, the South American Native Indians. He visited all these different cultures, and what he found was something really unique. What he had was this amazing experiment could never be really repeated now. He had villages that were living on traditional foods and had done so for hundreds of years. What he observed in those villages were that none of them or very few of them had any tooth decay, whatsoever, but more importantly, they had enough room for all 32 of their teeth with some space even
behind the wisdom tooth.

They not only had enough room for their teeth, and we’ll talk about why that’s important in the moment, but they didn’t have any of the diseases of chronic degenerative disease.

They had no heart disease, no cancer, no rheumatoid arthritis, no diabetes, no obesity.

They were structurally, physically, very sound as well as being dentally healthy. What he then did was he talked … He went into the towns, and he looked at the same genetic group.

He really was doing in a way of controlled study, looking at the same genetic group and the one … The genetic group, the same tribe or family even that had moved into the city after 5 or 10 or very soon after a few years was displaying tooth decay, all of the degenerative diseases that are seen in modern civilization. From that, he wanted to determine what was it about traditional foods that was so unique and what was it about our western diet … Remember this was 1935, where people were only eating 12 kilos of sugar a year, now they’re eating … In Australia 45 kilos, in America 60 kilos to 70 kilos.

Put it in perspective here, he was looking at those people and they were healthy. He took food samples from there and he brought them back, and he analyzed them. He found there were three things they all had in common, the traditional diets. Now, they weren’t all Paleo. They weren’t all on Paleo. They were up in Eskimo land. In Alaska, they were on fish and blubber, and da, da, da. In New Hebrides, they were on oats and some seafood, and seasonal fruits, and in the Polynesia, they were on seafood, and they were on some fruits and some root vegetables, all different types of things. They weren’t all along Paleo, but what they all had in common was the traditional diets all were nutrient dense. They had 10 times the amount of water soluble vitamins that may … They likely the … and minerals and they were four times higher in fat soluble vitamins.

You need fat soluble vitamins to incorporate the minerals into your body. They had that and the interesting thing was the best source of these fat soluble vitamins which are A, D, K, E was animal fats that had been grown on pastured lands in traditional ways. This was a fabulous study done in 1935, and I’m about to give a presentation on Friday where I’ve actually done a little bit of a cut and splice of the catalyst program that was on the beginning of this year, so an ABC program in Australia, Catalyst, and it was on gut reaction. One of the senior professors of research at Monash University said, “You know what? There’s this huge breakthrough that’s occurring. It seems that what we eat could be affecting heart disease, cancer, diabetes, obesity, and a whole range of other things.” He was saying it like this was an amazing breakthrough, and if we were careful about what we ate, we could actually extend our life by years if not decades.

Stuart: I don’t believe a word of it. Just advertising. It’s just advertising.

Ron: The beauty of that is if you look at that, and you listened to what you would think, “Oh, my God.” Like, “What is going on?” If this is the breakthrough to the medical community in 2015, this is why we’re in the [inaudible 00:19:34] because you can press the rewind button to a lovely little segment of Weston A. Price where he himself taught and says pretty much the same thing in 1935, so it suddenly taken us 80 years to get on top.

Stuart: It’s so tricky as well, isn’t it? You realized that there is such huge power in even these beautiful and yet nutrient dense foods, but then if you were to take that group who were truly thriving and pull them over perhaps with the same diet, but surround them in the conditions that we have today with email, and stress, and pollution, and the rat race, I wonder how they would feel whether that would have a …

Ron: It’s a good point, Stuart. It’s a good point because one of the things … Stress has been of an interest to me over the last 35 years. In fact, today’s rather that would feel [inaudible 00:20:26] guys. I’m sharing this with you. Today is the 35th anniversary of my practice in the city of Sydney, but that’s another story, but for the last 33 years, the model of stress that I have used, the model of health that I have used in my practice is that our health is affected by stress. I define that stress as a combination of emotional, environmental, postural or structural, nutritional, and dental stress. Those five stresses and people say, “What’s dental stress? You’ve just pulled that out of the hat because you’re a dentist.” I’ve just defined for you what a holistic dentist is. Respiratory tract, digestive tract, chronic inflammation, nerve damage, chronic pain, all these materials that we use.
Dental stress is an important thing that’s often overlooked, but they are the five stresses, so what you’re saying is absolutely true. You could be on the best diet in the world, but if you are in overload, stress, the fight-and-flight mode that many of us, in most of their [inaudible 00:21:29], and you are not going to be absorbing those nutrients absolutely right.

Guy: What I noticed myself … I can us myself as an example because I don’t think a lot of us even appreciate that we’re in the stressful mode. We just assume it’s normal from our day-to-day actions. I went to Mexico a couple of weeks ago, and I was actually meditating four days on and off in a workshop, but I didn’t realize how stressed I was until I got there and then slowly started the wrong way. By the end of it, I got, “Oh, my God, I feel like a different person.” I’ve been carrying that for weeks or months prior to it. It’s amazing.

Ron: Go ahead, Stuart. Sorry.

Stuart: I’m just going to say, can you imagine my stress as Guy is away in Mexico meditating, carrying the business and raising a family, so it works well for both of us, isn’t it, Guy?

Guy: It was fabulous.

Stuart: Right.

Ron: Meditation is another. It’s the big one, isn’t it? It’s just such an important part of being healthy in this day and age. I think you should not be without it.

Guy: There you go. Yeah. I’m certainly exploring it and I’m enjoying the process. You can look then along the way, but …

Ron: Stuart, you look like you’re about to say something.

Stuart: I do. I’m going to bring it back on track to the dental route as well. I’ve got another million-dollar question for you. Guy and myself, we’re children of the ’70s and the ’80s. We’re anything. We always had mouthfuls of sweets and pop and fizzy drink and didn’t really care about too much. We’ve got fillings in our mouths; most of our friends have at this age. Should we be concerned about these fillings particularly if they are mercury amalgam?

Ron: Yeah, I think you should. See, the interesting thing is that it’s mercury. I’ll have to explain. The silver fillings in people’s mouth what it used to be called silver amalgam fillings euphemistically, half of it is mercury and the other half silver, tin, zinc, and copper, so it’s an amalgamation of silver, tin, zinc, and copper, mixed up with liquid mercury. That when you plug into a tooth, within an hour goes hard, and within 24 hour goes much harder. It’s a cheap, it’s been used for 170 years in dentistry, and nowadays, if I … I haven’t done an amalgam filling for almost 30 years, but if your dentist who you might ask this question or say, “Should I be worried about amalgam? ” “No. Don’t worry about it. It’s perfectly safe.” Okay. Let me ask you this question. When you’ve done a mercury amalgam filling on your patient, and you’ve got a little bit left over, what do you with the scrap?
I know it’s a rhetorical question, it’s a trick question, but people should ask it of their dentist because the answer is this, it’s against the law for you to put that scrap into the toilet, the garbage, or down the sink. That scrap has to be disposed off as toxic waste.

However, through some twist of faith, it’s perfectly … The only safe place to put this toxic material is in the mouth of a human being. I don’t know whether … To me, that defies logic.

Guy: It’s like the world has gone mad.

Ron: It’s the mercury, but time … The question then goes because when I was placing mercury amalgams in the late ’70s and up to about 1981 or 1982, I was parroting what the university told me and that’s was, “It’s locked in. It doesn’t escape.” A chiropractor who is referring me patients at that time said to me, “Ron, it does escape. Read this literature.” I said, “Okay. I’ll read it. I’ll read it.” I read it and I couldn’t believe it, so I took … There was a piece of patient came in, a bit of old filling had fallen out, so from the records, it’d had been six or seven years earlier, so I sent it off to the Australian Analytical Laboratory to have it tested. It came back 40% mercury, and it had gone 50% mercury. I thought, “Oh, my God.” Hang on.

Guy: [crosstalk 00:25:55].

Ron: I don’t believe this. I don’t believe it. I repeated that with about four other samples and they all came back 37%, 43%, 39%, 41%. Clearly, mercury was escaping and when it escapes, it gets stored in the kidneys, the liver and the brain, so doing a blood test does not tell you whether you’ve got mercury toxicity or not. It is an issue. It’s one that is very difficult for the profession to grapple with and again it goes back to what’s the difference doing a holistic dentist and a normal dentists? If all your focus is here, and you’re trying to restore a tooth as best as you can, as economically as you can, then mercury amalgam is a great filling material. There’s only one problem, and the problem is that tooth is attached to a human being. Apart from it, perfectly fine.

Guy: If you got mercury fillings, is it quite a procedure to change them?

Ron: Look. It’s not rocket science but it seems to … There is some precautions that one should definitely take. You are better off leaving it in your mouth. Obviously, if there’s decay in there, you don’t leave it in your mouth, but if you’re having it removed because you’re wanting mercury removed from your body, then you need to take a few precautions, and in our practice, the precautions that we take are we use a rubber dam which is a shape of rubber that acts like a diaphragm. We punch a hole in that and the tooth or teeth that we’re working on pokes through, so it forms a barrier so that it protects the airway. We also give people a nose piece, because as soon as I put my drill on to a mercury filling, I create a vapor which your nose is very close to, so I don’t want you to be inhaling mercury vapor. We also use a lot of water to dampen down the vapor for us. We also use high-speed suction to avoid the exposure for us and the patient. We move it in a certain way, so we can flick it out rather than grinding out because that creates more vapor. In our practice, we have air purifiers and negative ion generators to help us deal with that as a OHS.

Guy: Cool. Sure.

Ron: There are some precautions, you should not have it just removed. It does raise the issue of mercury … It raises a really important issue and that is dental materials in general. I was attending a course last year from a professor from the Karolinska Institute in Sweden which is very big on Toxicology, and introduced me to this idea of metal-induced chronic inflammation. By being exposed to metal, on a 24/7 basis, the potential for your body to react by then going into chronic inflammation is there, so in our practice, we’re try and avoid metal as much as we can, and we can pretty well do that. There are some issues around dental materials that need to be considered carefully, but mercury for us has been a no-no for almost 30 years, and whether you’re removing a small filling or a whole mouth, you do it carefully and you support the person. Usually, we work with the person’s naturopath or nutritionist outside.

Stuart: If for instance, I did have a filling, a mercury filling, but I went to the trouble of getting a heavy metal analysis test. Maybe a hair testing kit, and I didn’t have any issues with mercury, happy just to go along and not really pay too much attention to it?

Ron: In our practice is in the city of Sydney, it’s called Holistic Dental Centre. There’s another plug, but anyway … The point about it is that we do not take a dogmatic approach to things to alter it. In a way, I envy those that do, that say, “All amalgam fillings should come out. All root canal teeth should come out. All these, all that.” We’re not dogmatic like that. I think there are two separate issues here. One is should we still be using the material? To me, the answer is definitely no. There is no excuse for using that material in today’s dental world. That’s number one. The second issue is should everyone be having every filling out? The answer is maybe, maybe not. We need to consider each one individually, each person individually. If for example, you were in excellent health however we define that. Of course, you got to be thinking about physical, emotional, mental, all these different …

Stuart: Dental.

Ron: Dental. All those different aspects of health, however we define excellent health. If you were in excellent health, and you’re sleeping well, and you’ve got good digestive, all the functions are going well, and … Hey, I don’t lose any sleep over the fact that when that filling needs to be removed, it should be removed, but when it is removed, it should be done carefully.

Stuart: Right. Got it.

Ron: Hair analysis is a gauge. It’s reasonable indicator. I remember I said mercury is stored in the kidney, the liver and the brain, it’s stored in fat tissues, so to get a proper analysis of what mercury load you have, you need to do a heavy metal … A challenge if you like, so you can take a chelating agent. People are exposed to heavy metals. Say you swallowed lead or something. The way that get that out of your body is by using what’s called the chelating agent. An example of that is something called DMSA. You could take DMSA and for you … Firstly, you would measure your urine before, and you’d have a really low level of mercury in your urine or your blood. It’s not a good measure. It doesn’t float around there, but then you take a couple of capsules of DMSA, and then you retest three, four or six hours later, and you collect the urine or a blood, and then you measure the before and the after. What you’ve done is you’ve dragged the mercury out of the organs and you deposited it in the …

Guy: In the urine.

Ron: … urine hence, to be excreted. That’s a more accurate way of determining it, but as I said, we’re not dogmatic about it. We’re very careful. I have some patients that have come to me from all over the place that they’ve had their amalgams removed in two or three sessions, and I’ve had other patients that have taken 10 or 15 years.

Stuart: Okay, got it.

Guy: Great answer.

Stuart: It’s good to know.

Guy: Another question, Ron on dentistry, and it’s a hot topic that will come up all the time for us is dairy consumption. Is this a key to strong teeth and bones?

Ron: Look. One of the things that I’m also very interested in is why public health messages are so confusing and contradicting. You only have to look at who is sponsoring some of the major professional organizations like the Dairy Corporation is a major sponsor of every professional, nutritional organization as well as the Asthma Council as well as … You name it. The Dairy Council are offering some sponsorship. That is, I think, clouds over some of the issues. I think there is some place for dairy, perhaps in a cultured dairy sense. If the dairy is grass fed, that’s a different story as well as opposed to being grained fed, but it’s certainly not an essential requirement for healthy teeth. No. I think fat-soluble vitamins are and within dairy … There are some fat-soluble vitamins, but there are some other issues that go with them. When we pasteurize and homogenize milk, we remove a lot of the enzymes that help us cope with the proteins in the milk, the casein and that is a common allergy that people and food sensitivity that people have.

I think what’s important is that you have … For strong healthy teeth, from the moment of conception … You get this from the moment of conception. In fact, probably for a good year or two, prior to conception, both male and female, to be eating a nutrient-dense diet that is high in vitamins, fat soluble and minerals, fat-soluble vitamins, and has a really broad range of vegetables and good fats and moderate amount of protein … I could go on about what it is, but it is not dairy. Dairy is not the essential [inaudible 00:34:53].

Guy: I appreciate it. You say fat-soluble vitamins, right? Yet, we’ve been told not to eat for God knows how many years as well to digest the vitamins that are fat soluble.

Ron: It’s actually set us up for the perfect storm. We’ve had the food pyramid which is food grains at the bottom, and avoid fats. We’ve had the low-fat dogma coming to us via [inaudible 00:35:18] and every heart foundation and every pharmaceutical company in the world because that’s something that doctors can measure. They can measure cholesterol, and they can give you a drug to lower cholesterol, so it makes them feel like they’re doing something. We’ve had the food pyramid and we’ve had the low-fat dogma, and we still have heart disease, number one. Cancer, number two, one in two male, one in three women. We will get cancer by the time they are 65. We’ve got autoimmune disease, it’s going to the roof. There are over 200 autoimmune diseases. By autoimmune, we mean Crohn’s, irritable bowel, thyroid function, rheumatoid arthritis, Parkinson’s, et cetera, et cetera. Then we’ve got diabetes and obesity. How is that food pyramid and low fat diet been working for us over the last 40 or 50 years? Not all that good.

Guy: [inaudible 00:36:13].

Stuart: You touched … You mentioned it like a certain type of dairy and you’re also touching on upon the importance of fat-soluble vitamins as well which led me to think of reminineralization. Are we able, through diet and all of these key nutrients, or be it in a different dairy from fats, whatever, great foods, can we assist our teeth in remineralizing themselves?

Ron: I think the answer to that is yes, up to a point.

Guy: Can you explain the remineralization [crosstalk 00:36:50]?

Ron: Let me just explain what demineralization [crosstalk 00:36:52].

Guy: Okay. Perfect.

Ron: Let’s start what’s the beginning of the problem. A tooth is covered by enamel which is really hard. Underneath enamel is dentin which is considerably softer, and underneath the dentin is the nerve and the tooth, right? [inaudible 00:37:08] on a tooth. Now, within the mouth, there are at least 500 different species of microorganisms that we know of, and they live in perfect harmony. There’s a struggle like the rest of the world, the struggle between good and evil in the mouth as a symbol of struggle that goes on a daily basis between good and evil. If you are eating a good diet, then the good bacteria, just as they are in the gut proliferate, and you enjoy good health. If you’re eating a poor diet which is sugar, refined carbohydrates, grains which often break down into carbohydrate and sugar which breakdown into sugars very quickly, then you have a lot of sugar substrate for the bad bacteria to proliferate. You’re like any living organism that eats, it’s got to excrete. It’s got to go to the toilet. What did it excrete is an acid. The tooth is made up of calcium and phosphate, crystals, and so it starts to demineralize the tooth.

That shows up as little whitish spot on the tooth surface first, then it becomes a brownish spot and then it starts to undermine the softer dentin under the enamel, and then one day, you bite into something, and suddenly, out of the blue, you’ve got a hole. It’s been going on there for a while. Now, if you have the early stage of demineralization where you just got this early stage of decay, white spot, or even maybe the brown spot is starting and you eliminated all those substrates that fed the bad bacteria, and you ate a nutrient-dense diet which we’ve already talked about, then there is the chance to arrest decay and stop mineralization and remineralize the tooth. There are some products that [purport 00:38:54] to assist that. One of those products is called Tooth Mousse.
Tooth Mousse is a dairy product derivative and it’s a bio-available calcium and phosphate.

We do use some of that in our practice. I think the issue of mineralization, remineralization is a really important one, and then you get on to the topic of drinks, and water, and sports drinks, and carbonated drinks, and the alcohol, and the acidity of those drinks, you’re pushing up against it. I had somebody coming in to see me the other day who was complaining about sensitivity around the neck of the tooth. This was around 12 o’clock in the morning, and they told me, I said, “What did you have for … What are you eating?” They go, “Oh no. I’m on a really good diet.” “I started today with fruit juice. I have a big glass of orange juice and a big bowl of fruit, and then I have some muesli or some cereal with some milk. I’ve got low-fat milk. I don’t want to get … You know, I don’t want to be unwell, so I’m going to have low-fat milk.”

The Heart Foundation [text 00:40:00] going there and then she comes in to see me with iced tea. [crosstalk 00:40:05]. I calculated for her, and it was only 11 o’clock in the morning, but she’d already had the equivalent of about 27 teaspoons of sugar, and it was on the 11 o’clock in the morning. Really, what we are up against is dairy is not answer, remineralization is definitely possible. You need to consider the food that you’re eating and the drinks that you’re drinking.

Guy: [crosstalk 00:40:30].

Stuart: It’s so sad because that lady would have thought that she is doing the best that she can based upon the information that she is receiving from the supermarkets, from the government, from pretty much everybody in her circle.
Ron: I’m really … One of the things I’ve come to realize is we’ve got a real problem with our health system. In terms of crisis therapy, there is no better place to be. The level of ingenuity, of skill, of intelligence, of equipment that’s available to deal with a crisis, analysis on the medical health crisis is phenomenal. A friend of mine had a 1-week-old baby, open heart surgery for a heart defect. My 89-year-old mother had a new aortic valve replaced. What they can do is amazing. Crisis therapy, tick that box, brilliant. What’s wrong with the healthcare system is that it’s really not a healthcare system. It’s become a chronic disease management system. Really, between chronic disease management and crisis, it’s a great economic model. It generates billions, literally billions of dollars of profit for the processed in pharmaceutical industry, and for the health industry. I reap … I don’t reap billions of dollars sadly, but dentistry is a product of western diet.

Guy: Culture, yeah.

Ron: If I was a dentist in the Swiss Alps village, I wouldn’t be having a very busy time, so we have a chronic disease management system and that’s got to change. It’s unsustainable financially, the human cost, the loss of human potential is enormous.

Guy: Do you think people are being more proactive?

Ron: Definitely. I think there’s two schools … Actually, Guy, that’s a really interesting … but I think that’s a rising tide. I think there are two schools of thought out there at the moment. One is total faith in the Western health model like, all I need to know is my doctor’s phone number. Apart from that, I’m going to be fine. I’ve got health insurance and my doctor’s phone number always work. They’ll just tell me what medication I need, if I need surgery, so be it. It’s all there for me. There’s the other group that says, “Wait a minute. I know that’s there for me, but I don’t want to get it.” They are becoming far more proactive in their life. I think that’s a rising … That’s a definitely a rising tide.

Guy: I was going to add as well even just for the [inaudible 00:43:08] podcast and blogs and things that are popping up the message and from the growth of our podcast over the last years, people are definitely at least hungry for information, and trying to get it out there for people to proactively change.

Ron: I’d agree with that.

Stuart: I did have a question when we were talking about the remineralization and you touched upon the oral microbiome, and I listened to a great podcast a couple of weeks ago all about that very topic. My question to you is mouthwash. Does that affect the oral microbiome because they were saying that it did at the time, and so I just thought we’d ask the expert.

Ron: Were they saying it did in the positive way or negative way.

Stuart: A negative way.

Ron: Absolutely. That whole issue of bad breath for example is a classic example of … It’s such an interesting topic. I could talk to you for half an hour and an hour on bad breath but basically, there are medical reasons why you have bad breath. It’s dental and medical reasons, and yet it is a 10-billion dollar industry of mouthwashes, breath fresheners, da, da, da, da, da. You name it and most of them are totally ineffective and do not address the root cause of the issue which is the same as tooth decay or bad gut biome or bad oral biome, gut biome. The same diet that promotes a healthy gut biome, guess what? It promotes a healthy oral biome as well. That product that you buy … If you have an infection or you’re dealing with something on a short-term basis, maybe we use a herbal mouth rinse, tincture of calendula which is very effective in a short term, but I wouldn’t recommend that for more than a couple of days for any patient. I certainly recommend a mouth rinse on a regular basis.

Guy: Great. Great questions then.

Stuart: It’s interesting. The microbiome in the gut health now is so huge. You see the next breakthrough but many of us don’t even think that it starts in the mouth, and we’re drinking sodas with all these crazy acids, very harsh mouthwashes and rinses or manner of foods that we put in there would have to have an effect at some point I would imagine.
Ron: Look. Like I said, the two most common infections known to man, woman, or child is tooth decay and gum disease. That only arises through an imbalance of the microbiome in your mouth. If that happens there, why on earth wouldn’t it happened anywhere else in the body and it certainly does. That’s what Weston A. Price found out, big breakthrough in 1935. It’s just taking a little while for the [ballot 00:46:05] to arrive.

Guy: [crosstalk 00:46:06].

Ron: He posted a letter 80 years ago, and it’s only arrived on our shores recently.

Guy: That’s amazing.

Stuart: [crosstalk 00:46:14].

Guy: What does a holistic dentist to do with the care for his teeth?

Ron: I try to eat a good diet. Listen, I work on an 80/20 principle, 90/10. If I get to 90/10, I am saintly. I’m very proud of myself. I’d like to think that throughout, most of my … All my week, I’m on an 80/20 basis. You’ve got to work out what percentage is right for you. Some people think 50/50 is pretty good, and to me, that’s ridiculous; 60/40 doesn’t cut it; 70/30 is not going to make that big a difference; maybe 20 is the bottom line; 90/10 is what I do, and if I was 100% or I’d be a social outcast and known whatever [inaudible 00:47:03]. I think you’ve got to cut yourself a little of slack here because you end up getting so stressed out about what you’re reading, that it becomes pathological in itself, but essentially, the basis of my diet is I eat … The majority of my diet, I’m trying to make vegetables of varying colors, as many colors as I can. I try to keep low-ish carb and by carb level, I mean around 70 gram to 80 grams of carb a day is achievable and if people want to know what that is, I would suggest to get a carb counter and spend a week looking and weighing everything you do.

You don’t have to do it for the rest of your life. You’re just going to do it for a week or two to start getting your head around it. I would try … I had moderate amount of quality pasture fed, preferably organic protein, and by moderate I mean … We’re talking about … For me, who is 80 kilos, I wouldn’t want to be eating more than about 60 grams of protein a day. An egg has got 7 grams of protein, so if I have two eggs in the morning, there’s 14 grams, and a 200-gram piece of steak would have 66 grams right there and then. We eat too much protein. There’s no doubt about it. We eat too much meat, and we eat too much meat for two things. Problems with that is, one, for our own health, it’s not good, and two from a sustainability and planetary point of view, I don’t think it’s good. The other thing is good fats. By good fats, I would include butter, olive oil, avocado, coconut oil. I do most of the cooking at home, coconut oil. I indulge myself with some roasted vegetables and duck fat occasionally.

Then I have clean water. I actually purify my water. I have a reverse osmosis filter which removes everything and then I might add a couple of grains of Himalayan or Celtic sea salt. If I can taste it, I put too much in. If you have salts, I use either those salts, Celtic sea salt or Himalayan rock salt which have 60 trace elements in them, and I have moderate amount of seasonal fruit. I restrict my fruit intake, but I do have seasonal fruit and I do have some apples, bananas, berries, preferably organic. They’re very high in pesticides, strawberries and blueberries. Then sea food, moderate amount of sea food. I’m very careful with sea food. The best sea food is I think sardines. A lot of the other … The bigger fish, I wouldn’t touch.

Guy: From the mercury perspective or …

Ron: From a mercury sustain … There’s two issues about seafood. One is sustainability. We have raped and pillaged sea, and we’ve now reduced to up to 90% of its fish stocks over the last 20 or 30 years, so that’s a bit of a problem. The toxicity issue is inescapable, and the higher up the food chain you go, so the big fish are our problem. Then you go to farm fish, and I don’t really want to touch farm fish either because the farm fish are not in a natural environment. They often eat trash fish, so when they scour the ocean, they use big nets and that will take out the fish that can be sold at the fish market, but they have a huge amount of what’s called trash fish which were either too small to eat or a bottom feeders, and so they end up getting milled up to fish meal or they might … I just think farm fishing is not a good … I think sardines are the best alternative, calamari, okay. I don’t eat much. I don’t eat much seafood. It’s overrated.

Stuart: How would you move? What would you do? Are you a marathon runner or are you a crossfit aficionado?

Ron: I’m a functional movement aficionado.

Stuart: Right.

Ron: No. Really, I am. For the last … One of the most liberating things I’ve learned is that if you did 10 minutes or 20 minutes of interval training, high intensity interval training, then your metabolism is up for 24 to 48 hours. If you did a 10-kilometer run, your metabolism would be up for six to eight hours, so you don’t have to do that much to make a difference. For many years, I have attended a fabulous gym. I think he is one of the best trainers in Australia, Origin of Energy in Bondi Junction in Sydney, and Aaron McKenzie is into functional movements. It’s bending, twisting, turning, lunging, reaching, extending, flexing, doing all those movements that we do in everyday life and incorporating them into a workout, and then also focusing on the core. I have tried to do that three or four times a week, and I also do some stairs, high-intensity cardio but only over a short period, and so I don’t … I’m not a runner.

I think people run for various reasons. It’s very meditative. It’s not just the health thing people go out for long runs, but it’s not a really good thing for you. It’s not good for your joints. It’s not good for you. It’s not necessarily a good thing. That’s the first thing. The other thing is I try to wear a pedometer because you could work out for 30 minutes or an hour a day, but you’re sedentary for the 23 hours, and that’s a good thing either. In my surgery, I actually have measured that in a working day, I would walk about 6,000 steps just backwards and forwards from patient, around from where I parked my car to where my surgery is and back again, and to and from. I try and incorporate movement. Every morning, when I wake up in the morning, I do some yoga. I usually do the Salute to the Sun, a few rounds of that. If you’re wanting to do an all-around exercise, that is brilliant. Salute to the Sun, a couple of rounds of that in the morning really gets you going, so yeah. Movement is important.

Guy: A lot of people just don’t move. That’s another thing and another topic but nice to hear you do. I’ve been bringing in yoga to my weekly routine, and I’ve been trying to get

Stu there but he’s not prepared to [inaudible 00:53:46] and come down.

Stuart: Yeah. One day, Guy.

Guy: I’m aware of time. It’s going on a little bit, Ron, and I’d love for you to just talk a little bit about your podcast just to let the listeners know that you’re a podcast to Good Doctors, is that right?

Ron: We do.

Guy: I know Stu has become a fan. He’s been listening to a lot of it lately.

Stuart: I have. I’m loving it.

Ron: Yeah, good. It’s been going for a couple of years now actually, and my co-host, that it’s called The Good Doctors, Health Care Unplugged. Each week we explore. Here comes the introductions too. Each week we … no. Each week we do, we explore health wellness and disease from a nutritional and environmental perspective and we look at food from soil to plate and we look at the connections between mind and body, and we do that because they’re all connected. We really are talking about alternative medicine, we’re talking about good medicine, and my co-host in that is a fabulous doctor in the Mornington Peninsula, integrative holistic GP called Michelle Woolhouse. I personally … we’re up to episode 170, I think, and we do Healthy Bytes which very … Sometimes we interview people, sometimes we have a Healthy Byte which varies from 5 minutes to 20 minutes, and we’re just starting to do book reviews, but I have personally learned so much.
Each week, I get to pretend, and it’s not much of a stretch for me, but I get to pretend that I don’t know everything. I get to ask either our guests or Michelle something, and I’ve learnt so much from that, so it’s a great show. We’re starting to take it little more seriously. We’re going to do some live events next year. It’s going to be really good. It’s a really exciting project. It’s one we both really enjoy.

Guy: Fantastic.

Stuart: Fantastic. If we wanted to connect to The Good Doctors, the best way to do it?

Ron: iTunes or you could go on to our web page which is thegooddoctors.com.au, and we’ve got a Facebook page, we got a lot of information going out. We’re just about to publish an ebook on what is good health, and we’re about to do a whole series of varying programs. We did a fertility series, we’re doing a cardio series, a cancer series, so there’s a lot exciting things happening there next year.

Guy: Brilliant.

Stuart: Fantastic.

Guy: I think you’re right. Since we’ve been podcasting, I’ve learned so much. I find it a privilege. We have guests on like yourself, and we currently do them [inaudible 00:56:18] interview, but the absolute variety of knowledge that you exposed to, it’s awesome.

Ron: I’ve started a second podcast as well.

Guy: Have you?

Ron: I have on through my surgery, but it’s called Holistic Health Conversations. It’s where I interview practitioners that we work with around Australia or around Sydney, and also internationally who have a holistic approach to healthcare. That’s starting up in the next couple of weeks as well from our surgery web page.

Guy: Well done. Fantastic. There you go. Ron, just to wrap up, we have a question we ask everyone on the podcast every week. Nothing too technical, but what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Ron: I think the best piece of advice I’ve ever been given … The best lesson I’ve learned is to take control of yourself and keep an open mind because we love certainly, and if you’re going to change your health, there are two things that are important in change, any change. The first one is to accept control. It’s called locus of control. Do I have the control over my health? I know I don’t 100%, but I want to be as much in control of it as I can, so that’s number one. Number two, a tolerance of ambiguity. Meaning things are not black and white, and keeping an open mind and incorporating information and having knowledge is a very powerful tool, so take control and be the best you can be. That’s the best lesson I’ve learned.

Guy: Awesome. It’s funny you come up with that answer because I’ve been [inaudible 00:58:04] the phrase, beginner’s mind, when you approach the things, and that’s come up in the last couple of podcast actually.
Ron: Look, I often say that I only wish I knew as much I thought I did when I graduated from dentistry. When I graduated, I passed all the exams set by all the professors, and I thought I knew it all. Actually, the more you learn, the more you realize you don’t know, so it’s fun to learn.

Stuart: That’s right.

Guy: Fantastic. What’s coming up next for you?

Ron: I’m just in the process … I’m just finishing a book, and the book is called Simply Be Well. It’s an exploration of the five stresses in life that break us down which I’ve mentioned, emotional, environmental, postural, nutritional, and dental, and the five pillars of health that build us up which is sleep, breathe, nourish, move, and think. It also explores why public health messages is so confusing and contradictory. That’s coming out in the New Year. If people are interested, they can go into my website and we’re going to be … I think I’m going to have the first couple of chapters ready in a couple of weeks, and so we’re going to give them out free, send out the first couple of chapter.

Guy: [inaudible 00:59:10] awesome. Let us know when it’s out. It would be great. Everyone listen to this. Your website, best place to go back to the [inaudible 00:59:19] would be?

Ron: The surgery website, the shdc.com.au. SHDC, that stands for Sydney Holistic Dental Centre.com.au or they go on to drronehrlich. All one word, lower case, dot com, and there’ll be a lot of information on their too. [crosstalk 00:59:37].

Guy: [crosstalk 00:59:36].

Ron: Workshops coming up in the New Year, a Simply Be Well workshop to go with the book, and we’ve got an app that goes with the book as well, so a lot of exciting stuff coming up.

Guy: Awesome. We’ll link to the show notes as well, so people can just go and check it out.

Ron: Thanks.

Guy: [crosstalk 00:59:52].

Ron: Thanks for having me.

Stuart: [crosstalk 00:59:53].

Guy: Thanks for coming on. That was brilliant. I really appreciate it.

Stuart: [crosstalk 00:59:55]. We continue to learn which is great.

Ron: Don’t we? Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it.

Guy: Awesome. Thanks, Ron. Cheers.

Stuart: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Discover One Powerful Health Strategy That Everybody Needs to Know

The above video is 1 minute 52 seconds long.

wes carr

This week we welcome musician Wes Carr to the show. Wes has an amazing story to share with us as he’s been on quite a journey.

Wes openly speaks to us about his battle with depression and anxiety, and how he’s been using nutrition and meditation with great success to help combat these in his everyday life over the last few years.

If you’re not familiar with Wes Carr, yes, he’s a musician here in Australia. He’s worked alongside icons like Paul Mac, Missy Higgins, Don Walker, and Andrew Farris from INXS to name a few.

If you enjoy inspiring and transformational stories, then this podcast is for you!

You can also catch Wes live on his Australian tour: Here Comes the Sun – A journey through the songs & memoirs of George Harrison.

Full Interview with musician Wes Carr:

Rock ’n’ Roll & Depression To The Paleo Way. How I Transformed My Health


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In this episode we talk about:

  • From Australian Idol to the Paleo Way – What happened?
  • From Rock ‘n’ Roll, Vodka & Depression to Transforming my Lifestyle… The Steps I Took
  • Why I Meditate Daily and What Techniques I use
  • His Thoughts On the Paleo Diet & How He Incorporates it
  • And much much more…

CLICK HERE for all Episodes of the 180 Podcast

Get More of Mark Sisson Here:

Full Wes Carr Transcript

Guy Lawrence: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence from 180 Nutrition, and welcome to another episode of the Health Sessions. You know, thinking back a couple of years ago I was sitting in a friend’s car and they played me song and the song was called Blood and Bone. And little did I know that musician would end up on our podcast a couple of years later.

Yes, his name is Wes Carr and even more so little did I know that he had an amazing story to share with us and he’s been on quite a journey. If you’re not familiar with Wes Carr, he’s a musician here in Australia. He’s also worked alongside icons like Paul Mac, Missy Higgins, Don Walker, and Andrew Farris from INXS to name a few.

Pretty amazing resume. But Wes actually has openly spoke about his battle with depression and anxiety, and he comes on the show today to share with us about using nutrition and meditation to help combat those things and bring them to his everyday life.

And I have to say about Wes, he’s one very positive, happy, great guy, and it was a pleasure to have him on the show today and, yeah, you’re gonna get lots out of this.

Also, Wes is actually touring around Australia at the moment. His tour is called Here Comes the Sun: A Journey Through Songs and Memoirs of George Harrison. And I will be definitely checking it out myself. So, if you want to go and see Wes in person, after this podcast, now is the time to do it.

As always, if you’re listening to this podcast, a little bit of feedback is always great to hear from you. Simply drop us an email: 180Nutrition.com.au. And also a review is a great way through iTunes. It takes two minutes to do. Hit the Subscribe and five-star as well. Really appreciate it. Get feedback that way, but it also helps us with our rankings and we know that you’re enjoying these podcasts as well and we can reach more people.

And it’s fantastic and I feel very blessed to be doing these podcasts with such amazing people. And I have no doubt you’re going to enjoy this podcast along with many others today as well.

So, yeah, let’s go over to Wes Carr. Enjoy.

All right, let’s start, eh? Let’s rock and roll; excuse the pun, Wes.

So, hey, this is Guy Lawrence. I’m joined with Stuart Cooke, as always. Hey, Stu. And our fantastic guest today is Wes Carr. Wes, welcome to the show, mate.

Wes Carr: Thanks, guys. Thanks very much.

Guy Lawrence: Wes, I was thinking we’ve had athletes, triathlons, CrossFitters, naturopaths, doctors. And we had a chef last week; Pete Evans came on. And you’re our first musician, mate.

Wes Carr: I am?

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. And we’re very excited about that. So, every podcast, mate, what we do is get some; just tell us a little bit about your journey, what you do, before we get on to the health topic of everything, which we’re excited to talk to you about. Can you just tell us a little bit about, I guess, your music journey? You know; when did all that start?

Wes Carr: Yeah. Look, I started sort of singing and dancing and performing when I was I think about 2 years old. I put on the Michael Jackson album Thriller like every ’80s child and went nuts, basically.

And that was it, really, and then I kind of decided to start writing at about 12. I picked up the guitar and I just wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote, basically was obsessed with music, really, all the way through my; all the way up until sort of, yeah, now, really. I mean, I’ve always been a musician and entered Australian Idol in 2008. And basically I’ve been in bands and I’ve been in the industry for 10, 12 years and I’ve been in a band Ben Gillies from Silverchair; that was probably the most profile I’ve had before Australian Idol.

And then when I entered that competition it was kind of frowned upon back then, in the industry, because it sort has this sort of stigma that anyone who goes into those shows, they don’t have much experience. Whereas I had quite a lot of experience in the lead-up to something like that.

And it was really me just kind of throwing caution at the wind and just sort of experimenting with a whole different mentality about going about doing things. And I kind of foresaw that the old mentality in the music industry that they still kind of bash these days is that, you know, you have to be laying in the gutter to sort of make it in the industry. You know? You’re gonna have to pay your dues and all that bullshit.

And I understand it in a certain respect, because you do need to have a sense of yourself and you do need to know a bit more about your craft than just wanting to be famous. But for me, I’ve never really wanted to be, kind of, you know, famous for just being famous. It was more about going onto the short and basically just releasing everything that I had under my belt for the last 15 years of my experience.

And that’s all I did. And I was fortunate enough to go on and win the show and be known for winning Australian Idol, which then I discovered that was a little bit of a struggle, because being known for winning something like Australian Idol, you become “that guy from that show” more than that guy who writes this song or that guy who… So, it’s a big leap; you sort of throw a lot of stuff out the window whilst doing it, but at the end of the day it gives you a leg up in the public arena and you get to have a stance, a voice that’s to what you love doing, I suppose.

So, you know, I’m grateful for it but it has been quite a long journey, I suppose, finding my way through it all and seeing what it means, you know? And now seven years later I’m sort of looking back at it all and really sort of saying, you know, most of it’s bullshit, really, but (really, it is) but you get to find a sense of yourself and you get to find; it’s all about you, really. I mean, at the end of the day we’re all here to sort of learn and grow and fully experience; constantly change and experience new things. And that was sort of what I did, and met a lot of cool, interesting people along the way, you know?

And I’ve done that, I’ve worked with a lot of people, I’ve been over to L.A. I’ve worked with Joe Cocker. This was all before Idol, you know. I worked with a lot of different, amazing famous, very famous, acts and people that I’ve met before and after. And they’ve all taught me many things along the way and, you know, now it’s all; now I’m sitting here talking to you guys.

Stuart Cooke: I actually watched, strangely enough, that was the only Australian Idol I’ve ever watched. And I watched it from Day 1 all the way through to the finals. So I know a little bit about your journey on there. And we were engrossed as a family sitting there, and you get so dialed in.

But I was intrigued that, so, from Australian Idol seven years ago to now the Paleo Way with Pete Evans and Nora Gedgaudas. How did that ever come about?

Wes Carr: I lived next door to a mate of mine who’s a really good friend of mine now whose name is Dino Gladstone or Dean Gladstone; they call him Dino on the show, which is Bondi Rescue, which he’s famous for. I lived next door to him in… I’m not gonna give his address out.
And this was sort of straight after the show. Or kind of two years after the show, really, and I’d been on tour for two years, basically drunk, I think, everyone in Bondi’s body weight in vodka on tour.

And I’d been pretty much partying kind of all the way through that and just playing shows. You know how it is. It’s just sort of becomes like a novelty; it just becomes a joke, really, of like how much alcohol is on the rider and everything at the end of the day, after massive shows and things. It is kind of; I don’t know. I just exhausted myself, I think. I just tried to be something that I really wasn’t, in a way. I learned a lot of that through that mentality. So, when I met Dino he kind of steered me in a different direction. I started training with him and just hanging out a bit more, talking to him.

And he introduced me to a book called Primal Body, Primal Mind. And I read a bit of that and I remember him giving it to me, actually, we were on the Cooper Park stairs, which is probably the worst, or some of the worst stairs you can run up and down in Sydney. They are like the “death stairs,” I call them.

And we were training one day and he gave me this book and I read a bit of it and it just kind of opened my eyes up. And then he really just changed my whole perception on food and what food does. It’s like, I had grew up in a household where I don’t think I ever once thought about food as being medicine or anything to do with anything other than being tasty. That was basically what my education of food was. Because growing up in Adelaide, working-class Adelaide, you just don’t think about these things. You just sort of go to school and come home and drink your Farmers Union iced coffee and…

What I used to do XXJohnny in town/talent school in ?? 0:10:00.000XX as a kid and I was XXon the team/a teen??XX in Adelaide and all that stuff. So, we set up a schedule of going from school to the city five nights a week, and every night we’d have McDonald’s for dinner. I mean, that’s kind of what you did. It was cheap, easy, no one ever really thought about it, it was just the way it was. You know?

So, getting back to Dino, like, that was just an explosion for me to finally go, “Wow, OK?” He didn’t eat grains and all this sort of stuff. What the hell is all this about? And he was making these smoothies and just really into his food and talking about food. And when he spoke about his food, he lit up and it was like; it was just this amazing kind of person; he just kind of became this other person. It was great to see. I thought, God, there’s something in this.

And that was about six years ago, I think. Five years ago.

Guy Lawrence: What made you open to that, you know?

Wes Carr: I think because I really admired Dino for his energy. He has a real just this enigmatic energy that when he talks, you know there’s something in here because he’s so, not “obsessed” is the wrong word, but so; he just loves what he does. You know? All those guys down there do, you know? That’s why they do what they do is they…

But, you know, I think for me that they’re just really good inspirations and really good role models for people, especially like me who came after having all-nighters and just boozed, basically, and destroyed, and running around the world catching flights going… And then also having a disposition to anxiety and depression, which I think I was just trying to numb myself with XXaudio glitch 0:12:04.000XX and everything else that was going on with the prescription pills and everything.

And then he just sort of; and slowly but surely I started waking up to the fact that, “Oh, wow! This does really work.” And it took a very long time because I was the only person in my camp that when we went on holidays and things I’d bring my own food in an Esky and I’d basically just copy what Dino used to do. And I bought what Dino bought and everything that Dino did, I just basically mirrored for awhile until I started getting a little bit more like, “OK, there’s something in this.” I don’t know how it’s going to be sustainable because it was really expensive back then, even four or five years ago, it was quite expensive. These days it’s becoming more mainstream and hopefully it becomes more mainstream so the price is lower and there’s markets and there’s a lot more avenues now, but it took a long time to kind of start working up to this, I think, a long time ago.

I mean, paleo wasn’t in the mainstream psyche at the time. It was just the word that I don’t really understand, you know? It was just a lifestyle choice for me that I seem to resonate with.

Guy Lawrence: Have you always suffered from anxiety and depression? You mentioned it. Or was that something that was fueled from the public eye?

Wes Carr: No. I always had a disposition to severe anxiety. It’s more like terror. I’ve never really had it diagnosed properly, I don’t think, because it sort of shifts around a bit, you know? There’s anxiety attacks, there’s the depression, and then there’s the obsessive thinking that…

I was just talking to a; I was just on the Paleo Way tour in Cairns, I was talking to a little boy, a very inspirational little boy who had changed his diet and has changed his life. But he has obsessive compulsive disorder and what he described basically, when I have my, what I sort of call “episode” where I sort of; I’ve got this one terror thought that I can’t get out of my head and it just kind of goes around and around and around and around. And it just becomes more and more and more and more, I suppose, violent, in my head.

And I basically can’t move. I just can’t get out of the house. I can’t do anything. It cripples me inside and outside.

And so I’ve always had that, and that sort of got worse and worse and worse over the years. And that’s just sort of, it comes in sort of stages maybe twice a year or once every two years. It doesn’t really matter when it comes. It just hits like a freight train when it does.

But I’ve recently realized, my wife’s done the XXINN course 0:15:07.000XX, and my little man has had trouble with sensory processing and all that when he was born. And it’s all to do with gut, really. I mean, that’s your biggest brain in your body. You know?

And so for me to constantly be aware of that and keep on the path of trying to change my gut bacteria and giving it the right foods, then I can change my brain. And then I can work on my thoughts.

But when it’s physical, I feel like you struggle with the thoughts. So you’ve got to kind of treat your physical and then treat your psychological and then it will start working all in all.

Sometimes I don’t really treat my physical well and I sort of shift backwards and forwards, because it is a big step and it’s also a very; you’ve got to be very highly committed to it in quite a strict manner to be able to repair your body and have that mentality. It’s like a mantra. You’ve got to have that mentality every day, all the time, you’ve got to wake up and…

Guy Lawrence: It takes work, doesn’t it?

Wes Carr: It just takes a lot of work. At the moment, I’m trying to get off the caffeine. You know? I’ve been an avid tea drinker for ever since I can remember. And I love my cup of tea in the morning, but then it’s got more caffeine in it than coffee, they say. And it acts differently in the body. But still, and I’ve been 10 days off the caffeine, that’s the last thing I probably need to get off of.

And, for me, I feel even better clarity of mind and able to keep up with a 2-year-old sometimes. It’s still a lot better than walking around with this kind of fake energy for awhile.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. It must have been great for you to meet Nora on the Paleo Way after reading the book as well and being able to spend some time with her.

Wes Carr: Yeah, it was a bit of trick, really. It was quite strange. You know, sometimes you sort of get exposed to these people and all of a sudden, bang, they’re in your life. It’s just bizarre. That happened with Joe Cocker and myself. My dad used to do these really bad Joe Cocker impersonations at Christmas time and then all of a sudden there I am meeting him and going over. So, yeah.

It’s happened most of my life. It’s sort of funny. It’s like whoever I think about sometimes they turn up in my life, which is, yeah…

Guy Lawrence: Oh, it’s great. But even to share your story. Because the Paleo Way was a successful tool, clearly. I mean, I went to the Sydney one and I think there was 1110 people there or something.

Wes Carr: Yeah. It’s been nuts. I mean, I think for me to watch it on the outskirts this time around; I was on the first one and then my wife’s on the second one here, and I’m playing at it and playing music. You know, I think for me, watching it all evolve into the mainstream, it’s like we’re saying the world’s flat again. Like, the media have responded in such an aggressive fashion. And it’s just so unfair because it’s just not; it’s not at all controversial when you look at what you’re saying and whatever everybody’s saying with the paleo lifestyle. It’s just pretty bloody simple really.

But then you’ve got to look at all the publications that are writing these things and what their alliances are. You know?

Guy Lawrence: But I think it’s a big shift mentally for people as well. Like, I was in the same boat as you whereas I grew up without a second thought about food. And you almost have to have a bit of a nudge, if you like, by the universe or whatever it is, pain, or whatever it may be, before you look into these kind of; look at the food that you eat and how it applies to your own health.

I think it can be quite a bit ask for people at times, even though it is actually quite simple really.

Wes Carr: Yeah, I think it is a big ask. I mean, I always look at my mum and God bless my mum. I always look at her for examples as to how I suppose 90 percent of the psyche of the public think, because mum’s from Adelaide, she’s been in suburbia all her life, and she’s read the news, watched the news on the telly, and goes to work. And that’s her sort of everything.

But that’s kind of what people do, I suppose. They get up, they read the paper, they read “fear, fear, fear, fear, fear.” They go to work. They just eat whatever they can, because it’s quick and easy and cheap. Then come home. They watch the news. “Fear, fear, fear, fear, fear.” They go to sleep. And then they get up and repeat.

And then on the weekends they have; they go away with the family or something and they recharge and then back. And it’s the same old routine. And it’s just a treadmill. And it’s a little bit insane. Well, a whole lot of insane. But, you know, I think if you can just break away from that and just be aware of one thing or change just one thing about your life that you kind of think “I could do away with that” and just slowly chip away at your so-called routine and start reading a book or just go out for a walk in the sunshine at lunch break and not sit at your desk eating.

Just something really simple that changes that routine. You start becoming a little bit; that little hole that you’re looking through starts becoming a little wider and wider and wider. And if you’re looking through a small hole, you’re gonna only see through that small hole. But if you start looking through, you start breaking that hole apart, a little bit by little bit, you start seeing a little bit more of the entirety of what’s going on around you and what’s happening, you know?

And there is a lot more happening in the world or a lot more awareness going on than there’s ever been because of such readily communication that we’re all involved in and where we are and the Internet and where we log on.

A lot of people read Facebook now as the newspaper, more so, instead of XXsubtext?? 0:22:03.000XX

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. I think the average person logs in, I think it’s five times a day, to Facebook? It’s something like that.

Wes Carr: Yeah, so, it’s in your phone. I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was 15 times a day, to be honest. Because you’re on your phone and you’re on the bus, you’re on Facebook. You’re waiting on the bus… Like, I mean, I look around at a café and there’s people just on their phones, you know?

It’s a little worrying, but, you know, as long as they’re kind of, I don’t know, reading something that’s sort of expanding their minds instead of “the dog did a poo on my lawn this morning” or something, you know. Some weird… If they’re reading something of worth, then I agree with the communication. But the irony is that we’ve got so much communication now that nobody; it feels like nobody’s really communicating.

And it takes people like a Pete Evans or somebody to kind of put their hand up and say, look, you know, what’s going on over here? I mean, a lot of people are calling him “evangelical” or whatever, but maybe that’s what’s needed at the moment to sort of get through, penetrate through to the mainstream. You know?

The media are only going to report and laugh about it. It’s become a bit like the court jesters back in the medieval times, the media, I think. So I think, you know, that’s the thing.

Guy Lawrence: The great thing with Pete is that he’s making people think about what they’re eating.

Wes Carr: That’s right. And I think that’s all he wants. I mean, he’s not the devil and all this other stuff; all this rubbish that’s coming out. It’s just ridiculous. If people could think about just; if people could think why; what’s the agenda with the newspaper? Why are they writing this stuff? Why are they bullying these people? They’re just basically trying to spread some love into the world. You know? That’s basically what it all is. That’s what I believe.

Stuart Cooke: It’s not as if he’s pushing a potato juice diet. You know?

Wes Carr: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: It makes perfect sense. He’s really pushing what our grandparents used to eat before everything got screwy.

Wes Carr: Absolutely. That’s all it is, you know? That’s all it is. It’s just what our grandparents used to eat. And, you know, it’s deemed like they’re running around saying it’s gonna kill a baby, which is just absolutely ridiculous. You know? My boy grew up on the food and he’s the smartest kid I’ve ever known. I may be biased, but he really is. He’s two and a half and he’s talking whole sentences because his brain’s had the good fats, and it’s just bloody common sense, to be honest.

And, for me, getting back to my journey with it all, it’s like, you know, for me, a big thing is meditation. I mean, it’s more about, for me, it’s more about the soul and looking after your body, but also what comes; what’s around your body, you know?

And that’s who we are really, I think.

Stuart Cooke: I’ve heard the term “spiritual transformation” in some of media articles that I was reading prior to the interview. Is that something that you could explain a little for us?

Wes Carr: That’s funny because I never read anything about that.

Guy Lawrence: The media are at it again!

Stuart Cooke: They are. They are.

Wes Carr: Oh, well. As long as I’m not; you know XXa killer?? 0:25:39.000XX or something, I’m good.

Yeah, look, you know. For me, that’s another thing that came around about five years ago was transcendental meditation. I just; I had always really thought about meditation as being a bit, sort of “girly.” A little bit like, “Oh, what do you want to do that for? Sitting around and just kind of, yeah right.”

And I suppose I’ve been meditating anyway while playing music. That’s a meditation, absolutely. When you’re on stage it feels like you’ve disappeared for an hour and a half and then come back and when you get off stage you’re back there again and it takes you awhile to come down from being on stage.

But, yeah, that is a mediation as well. But for me, transcendental meditation, when I first did it, I went and saw a really amazing person called Carol Maher in Sydney and she taught; she gave me a sound, a mantra, and I just; she just sort of said, now just sit there. And she kind of integrated it into my psyche or system or whatever. You know?

And I just started kind of saying this word over and over again, and, man, it was like; I don’t know. I think David Lynch has the best analogy, which is he just sort of says it’s like standing in a lift and having the lift ropes being cut and you sort of free-fall down the shaft of the lift.

And it’s a bit like that. You just sort of, you kind of close up…

Stuart Cooke: How often do you meditate?

Wes Carr: It’s meant to be twice a day. So…

Guy Lawrence: For how long?

Wes Carr: Well, I do a thing called the Flying Sutras as well, which takes another 10 minutes on my 20 minutes. So, it’s an half an hour a day, morning and night. So, I get up early to do it. I have to get up early, really, to do it. Otherwise, I just can’t do it.

And then the night time’s a little bit harder to fit in with babies and everything else. But I still try to get into it, even if it’s just before I sleep. But it does help me a lot to balance my life, I think.

And some days, it’s funny because you start off with a mantra and you think, “I’m just going to really concentrate on a mantra.” And then boom, you’re off. And you’ve just got about 600 things that you discover that’s in your head that needs to be kind of almost like washed away.

Guy Lawrence: Like hitting the Reset button, is it, would you say?

Wes Carr: Yeah. It’s like; they say it’s like a bath-clean mind or a shower-clean mind. It’s funny, you know. As soon as you go into a meditation state, you realize how much is built up in your mind that you don’t know is there until you look within.

And once you look in, you see it all lined up all in a row and it feels like you need to deal with that stuff before you start with your everyday stuff.

And that’s what a lot of people don’t realize that there’s a lot of stuff going in your mind on a subconscious level or whatever it is under the surface that hasn’t been dealt with yet.

So, that’s why a lot of people feel stressed without knowing that they feel stressed. Or, I’m sorry, without knowing what it is that they’re stressed out about.

Guy Lawrence: Did you have coaching for a long time, Wes, or was this something you just pick up? Because I often hear people talk about meditation. But I don’t see many people that are actually habitually doing it on a regular basis.

Wes Carr: Yeah. I noticed that my life becomes a lot more powerful when I do it a lot more than if I skip a few or whatever and all of that.

I seem to go off on tangents or I start a song and don’t finish it. And I’m over here and I’m over there and I’m doing this and I’ve got 300 things going all at once. But if I just stop for that minute. And actually people say, “Oh, where do you get the time to do hours worth of meditation every day, morning and night?” And it’s like, well, I… Sometimes I don’t. But when I do do it I find that I achieve more. It’s like “do less, achieve more.” It’s that Tao Te Ching thing.

But a lot of people don’t trust that. They think that if you run around frantically and try to achieve more, you get more. And that’s not the way it is. It’s like, you know, you’ve got to give a little to get a little. You know? That’s the kind of thing; I think that’s what meditation’s all about. It makes you realize that if your mind’s right, you can sort of achieve anything, really. But you’ve got to take the time to practice it.

And it kind of makes your life feel better and then everyone else around you. You know? Because then you’re a little bit more relaxed so then it’s sort of a bit more…

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Fascinating.

Wes Carr: I think we’re taught to sort of get up and go, like, from the word “go,” you know, from school. I remember: “Work hard. Everything’s hard. You have to work at it. Work, work, work. Hard, hard, hard.” This, that, and the other. Fourteen hours a day. Come home, collapse, get up, do it again, eat shit food.

All of this stuff is just like, from birth. So, you know, if you kind of can wake a up a little around 30 or so is a good age to do it. You kind of come in, reprogram it all and start going, “Hey, well that didn’t really work for me.” Because it doesn’t really work. This all hard work. This whole mentality of pushing shit up a hill all the time. You’ve got to just sort of, yeah, think about it a bit more, you know?

Guy Lawrence: Oh, definitely. It’s funny enough. Myself and Stu did a talk at the Mark Sisson event two weeks ago, the Primal. And one of the things then, as well, I think was a major factor that we ended up talking about was about finding your purpose and passion in life and actually… because then it doesn’t feel like hard work. If you can start to find more purpose with what you’re doing every day, I think it’s a huge thing for your own sanity and health overall. Because it’s gonna wear you down. It has to.

Wes Carr: And it gives you the ease, so therefore the hard work, yeah, like you said, it doesn’t feel like hard work. It probably is hard work to work at it but it doesn’t feel like that, you know? And it gives you the ease to then go and achieve something of a standard that you’re happy with and not just kind of stuck behind a…

Guy Lawrence: Massively.

So, with everything you’ve sort of learned on your own journey so far, Wes, what would your advice to be to anyone that could be listening to this that is suffering from anxiety and depression? Like, what have been the key points for you that you could pass on to those people?

Wes Carr: I think; I read somewhere that Maharishi, actually, the guy who made transcendental meditation famous, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who was famous through; George Harrison went and got him; basically made him a world-famous guy overnight.

He said: When you experience fear and experience anxiety or anything like that, it’s actually the release of it. So, you’re releasing something within, that’s embedded within you, and if you just let it be released, you let it go, if you can let it go, it will go, it will subside, “all things must pass.” Which is a George Harrison quote.

Everything; it’s not going to be like this for the rest of your life. It feels like that way, and God, don’t I know that, where I couldn’t; I was so debilitated in my mind that that was it for me. I was fed up. The last experience or episode I had was really the one that was really the most violent one. It was something that I just could not escape.

And even if you looked at me you probably wouldn’t have known anything was going on. I had to fly to Groote Eylandt, of all places, on a tiny little plane from Sydney at the time and I was in desperate, desperate need of help somewhere. And I thought, “This is it. This is never gonna go away. And my worst terrors and fears are just going to be realized.”

And I now know that, you know, for me, I’m not anti-medication. I’m pro information. I’m not anti anything. If you need that, for the interim, do it, because it then will get your synapses working better. The Eastern and Western philosophies should mesh together. We should all have; if we have the Western philosophies of medication and all of that sort of stuff, we’ve got to have the Eastern where it’s the natural, and, I think, still, to this day, very progressive way of looking at things.

But if we have those both working together, which I’ve done, it helps you; it gives you so much more power. The Eastern philosophies give you so much more power and confidence to then go and become a natural healer or to heal naturally. It can really change your brain. It can reprogram your brain just by one happy thought in the morning.

It does work. You can get out of your funk. You can get out of your deep, darkest place. It’s a very, very easy thing to do but it doesn’t sound very easy when you’re in there. But just trust me. You can do it, just by one little thought: changing your routine, making a different; going to work a different way or go for a swim in the mornings or go to the ocean or go for a walk on the beach or something like that that changes; gets you out of your routine. Gets you out of your funk.

But, you know, in saying that, there are people out there who are chemically; there’s chemical and things out of balance or whatever, which I’ve had as well, and you probably do need some sort of help there, professional help that needs to be guided.

But be aware of the negativity, too, that comes with it. Because it’s not negative. You’re not crazy. I don’t believe anyone’s crazy. I think it’s just an issue with either their health or their backgrounds or something that you can reprogram very easily. We are all very intelligent machines and spiritual beings.

Stuart Cooke: We’re all capable of being happy and healthy. And I was interested in your comment before about the connection of the gut health to brain health. And so I was just wondering what strategies would you implement then from a nutritional perspective to nourish your gut?

Wes Carr: Well, I; this is my just repeating my wife, Pete, Nora, all the guys who are on the Paleo Way tour at the moment. Helen Padarin. It’s that, and I do struggle with this too, because my ego and my rock ’n’ roll background goes, “Bloody hell! This is all bullshit!”

But then my common sense kicks in and goes, “No, it’s not.” You know?

And it is. Fermented foods. A little bit every day, with every meal. Bone broth, which is amazing for you, for anything. Anything. Bone broths are just, like, the best. Fermented foods. You know: good fats. I don’t eat any legumes. Granted, I’m just basically rattling off the paleo diet. But really that’s all, for me, that’s what works the most. And small amount of meat and high; a lot of greens, basically, that’s all I eat, really. I go for the greens. Kale. I love kale. And just super… And green smoothies. Anything green and changing meat up every day. I’m just gonna have lamb, fish, beef, you know. Diversity. And just make it interesting.

And it’s pretty easy, really. And it’s pretty damn basic, too, I think.

Stuart Cooke: How empowering then is this, really, considering now that you can apply everything that you’ve learned to your son? Because I’ve got three daughters and they’re young and I think about what I ate when I was young. And we didn’t know. We lived in a society; we just didn’t know. It was microwaved TV dinners, fast food, sodas, McDonald’s. We were kids of the ’80s, you know.

Guy Lawrence: Exactly right.

Stuart Cooke: We can think about food as information. Food is ultimately nourishing. And we can help these guys grow in ways that we didn’t have access to years ago. So, any particulars for your child’s diet that you pull in every day as a staple?

Wes Carr: Yeah. For me, with the little man, Charlie has been; I mean, she’s got a book coming out soon. The Bubba Yum Yum book that’s the most controversial bloody book this side… in Australia, which basically just has nutrition. It’s unbelievable.

So, yeah, for me, I just think that… He just eats basically what I eat, but on a smaller scale, really. And he has a tiny bit of fermented foods, he has bone broths, he has; just meat once or twice a day. His gut is absolutely; we’re always trying to fit his gut because he just has sensory processing disorders and he was born on spectrum and he stimming and everything when he was born, which means they were showing a lot of signs of being autistic.

So, we went down this path very happily and very readily when we were advised to. I’d already known about it from my introduction from Dino anyway, so it wasn’t really hard for us to do it. But it really worked for him. He couldn’t take mum’s breast milk. So that was very traumatic for Charlie. And then we went through a whole bunch of different problems with him, formulas, and we just realized that all these formulas had, like, toxic crap in them. You know? It’s just junk. And it just makes him full. It doesn’t give him any actual nutrition at all, value at all, I don’t think. Corn syrup and all this other stuff.

So, you know, for us that’s when we found the Weston A. Price and we started making our own formula. And it really worked for him. And that’s when it started; and he loved it. And I just seems good for him. It seemed better for him than, say, your formula you get off your shelf that’s been in a tin for the last how every many years with whatever crawling all over it.

So, I mean, “breast is always best,” they say, but this was the second option that we thought would be great for him. They’re saying it’s too much vitamin A and all that, but that’s only synthetic vitamin A. It’s not natural vitamin A in all this stuff. So, there’s a lot of loopholes that the media have run with that have given it a very dark start and made it have a stigma around it because it’s new and; “new” in inverted commas, which it was only being used in the 1930s and ’40s by our grandparents as a staple diet for kids.

So, it’s funny, and it’s been published over 500,000 times, this recipe. It’s not actually a “new” recipe.

Stuart Cooke: It’s that new!

Wes Carr: It’s that new, man! It’s hilarious how; I don’t know what’s going on in Australia at the moment, but there’s a bit of a shakeup there. Don’t get me started with the indigenous communities. But, you know, I think in Australia we really have to start bloody getting up, world, and waking up a little bit and just realizing that the world is changing and it’s happening for the better.

And there is a beautiful, very non-aggressive revolution going on in the food industry and that’s our future and that’s our kids’ future.

Guy Lawrence: And ultimately what we want to do is be the best version of ourselves that we can be, and it we can do that through food, then why wouldn’t we?

Wes Carr: Absolutely. I mean, we are what we eat, isn’t it? Or we are what we absorb.

Stuart Cooke: It is completely. Where our kids are concerned, too, I mean, we’re great proponents of, regardless of who you are or what you do, we should generally eat the same things, but the volumes will change. So, you know, if you’re a super athlete then you’re gonna eat a little bit more.

Wes Carr: It’s a fine reality, isn’t it? Absolutely. It’s all about your individual needs, you know? That’s what it’s all about. I mean, what works for me doesn’t necessarily work for you.

But in saying that, the awareness, it’s all about being aware of what you’re eating and aware of who you are. You know? And why we’re here and all that.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. But I generally think, as well, the thirst for knowledge from general people is definitely there, because we’ve been at this for five years, roughly. When we started, people were: “What the hell are you two banging on about?”

And now it’s a completely different story. The podcast gets downloaded by the thousands and the content gets read all the time. There’s an awareness happening and the shift is coming, for sure.

Wes Carr: Right. And the people are just sick of the same old thing that’s making them sick. And I think it’s incredible, actually. I believe in consciousness and the collectively consciousness as a whole. And if you do really watch trends and how they evolve, it’s amazing how, when; you become a new person by just being in a different city, because of the consciousness around you. You tap into them. And if you’re more sensitive to energy or whatever it is, if you’re more sensitive to that, you become more aware more quickly.

But there’s the other people that are on to a different train of thought or a different vibration or whatever who it takes awhile. But then once the media start reporting it, it’s en masse consciousness. And then all of a sudden, that’s when everybody’s making up their own minds. And I know a lot of people that aren’t necessarily what you’d call “leading edge” or “hipster” or whatever the trendy word is.

I know a lot of people who are reading the papers these days and going; and making up their own minds for the first time. Because some of it’s absolutely ridiculous.

So, it’s great that they’re reporting all this stuff, because it’s just making all the awareness become a lot more mainstream and people are making up their own minds and thinking about it anyway, even if it is a fearful campaign or whatever that they run with just eating good food. But it makes people more aware of what they’re eating. I think that’s what I’m trying to say. And that’s great. The mainstream is starting to wake up. And that’s when you get a real revolution with everything is when Mr. Barryman, the guy who’s working on construction in Blacktown, is thinking about the healthy option for lunch. That’s when we’re really kicking goals.

Guy Lawrence: That’ll be the day. For sure, mate.

We’ve got a couple of questions we always ask at the end of our podcasts, and one of them is; the first one’s a very simple one. And it’s breakfast. What would you have eaten today, or let’s say yesterday. What did you eat yesterday, mate? Just to give people a rundown of the food.

Wes Carr: We’ve got some fermented cabbage in the fridge, so I; what did I eat for… I can’t remember. I had some sausage. I had some chili. Pork. Gluten-free sausages from our lovely butcher, GRUB.

Stuart Cooke: We know GRUB. Dominic?

Wes Carr: Dommy, yeah, he’s a good mate of mine. And I had some sausages and some fermented foods and some; I just had some kale. I just heat the kale up a little bit because raw kale sometimes…

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, yeah. I know what you’re talking about.

Wes Carr: And then I didn’t eat very much yesterday because I just; and then I had a green smoothie. I went and got a green smoothie with my little man. I don’t know why; I just had to kill some time. And we got back and I cooked up some chops for the little man. He loves his lamb chops. I think I had a chop and a bit of fermented food; a bit of fermented cabbage. Just a little bit again. And what else did I have? I didn’t really eat much yesterday, to be honest. I was so busy.

And then I had some slow-cooked bolognaise. My wife and I put a bolognaise on in the morning and we had it slow-cooking all day. And then we had that for dinner. With kale again, and some veggies. And I don’t think I had any fermented food that night, but I had some veggies and a bit of bolognaise.

And, yeah, the thing is when you’re on a high-fat diet, you don’t kind of seem to need to eat more when you’re really nailing it. It’s like when you first start going paleo, start changing your diet, you kind of feel like you need to eat a lot more than you should. Because I think, you know, I think sugar does that to you. It’s like you’re just insatiable. But once you sort of start getting used to not having too much sugar and not having too much caffeine and all this sort of stuff, you kind of don’t crave too much food. You just sort of have a big meal at the start of the day and then maybe a little bit in the afternoon and a little bit at night. You know? That’s kind of what we’re doing.

Stuart Cooke: I think so. I think you’re getting more nutrients as well out of the food that you’re eating, so you’re satisfied on a deeper level.

Wes Carr: That’s true. And I think the trick is, if you buy big bulk of mince and a chicken for your week, you put your bolognaise on the slow cooker for a day and you’ve got masses of food there left over for you, so that lasts a whole week.

And then sausages for; we’ve got a little 2-year-old so he loves his sausages and his lamb chops and things. So, put them on for lunch and then you have your bolognaise leftovers for either breakfast or for dinner. If you can stomach meat in the morning or not.

And then if you put a chicken on, you eat your chicken for dinner and then you put the bones, you make a broth out of the bones, if it’s… I’m talking organic, locally source sort of meat, not just… especially with chicken, you know. I think, anyway. Especially if you’re making bone broths out of the bones, you’ve got to have healthy chicken.

And then you’ve got your bone broth for four or five days as well, so you’ve got a broth with every meal. Like, I mean, your broth in the morning’s probably the best way to go, to wake up and to have a broth. I think that’s kind of a really good thing to do.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. I have a lot of bone broth.

Wes Carr: Yeah, it just gives you a clarity of mind. And, I don’t know, it does something to your whole system. It’s like having a coffee, I would say.

Guy Lawrence: It just comes back to educating yourself on why you’re doing these things and then learning the new habits that you can employ in replacing the old. And this stuff becomes quite simple to apply.

Wes Carr: And don’t beat yourself up if it’s taking too long to do that, too. I mean, everybody kind of says, “I don’t believe in this whole; I’d fall off the wagon.” Don’t fall off the wagon. Because as soon as you do that, you fall off the wagon.

So, it’s all about just changing one meal a day. Change one meal a day for a start. That’s what I did.

Guy Lawrence: That’s what we say. Absolutely.

Stuart Cooke: Start with breakfast because there’s normally a sugar anyway.

Wes Carr: Yeah. Yeah. It is absolutely horrible. And you wake up feeling so; you wake up feeling really tired and get more stuff that’s gonna make them feel even worse.

Stuart Cooke: You’ve been though the night, you’ve fasted, your body’s ready for nutrients, yet sometimes your Coco Pops just don’t cut it for you.

Guy Lawrence: So, Wes, we’ve got one more question for you, buddy. And it’s a simple one. What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Wes Carr: Best piece of advice… OK. Best piece of advice… They’re all; they’re all some kind of XXrock dogs? Rock gods? 0:53:59.000XX; they’re all liars.

There’s one bit of advice; you know what comes to mind? I think it’s; what comes to mind is not an advice as such. It’s basically a mentality. And that’s; I really like the mentality of the Tao Te Ching. It’s a really great; I’m into Wayne Dyer and I don’t listen to music anymore. I listen to audiobooks.

And Wayne Dyer has got a great one, what is it? Oh, man. Let me have a look. It’s a Tao Te Ching translated, for anybody to understand. And, for me, that really resonated with me because of the fact of it’s a real mentality and you can apply it to your life every day.

And you actually trip yourself up every day if you get right down to it, because the ego runs rampant for everyone. You know, we’ve all got this massive ego that we need to appease on a day-to-day basis. But if you start becoming, to use that word again, aware of your ego, you start sort of stripping away that layer of your life. And you start to realize that all your needs that you think you need, you don’t need. And you don’t need anything other than a good diet, obviously. And a healthy mind.

And when you start sort of stripping away all the, I suppose, the noise in your life and all those things that you think you need, you start becoming a lot more calmer but also a lot more aware of what’s going on around you.

So, it’s Change You Thoughts and Change your Life is the book. But it’s a translation of the Tao Te Ching. It’s the Wayne Dyer translation.

Guy Lawrence: I’ve actually listened to that as well, yeah.

Wes Carr: And I was just really; it was really great. I think every kind of bit of advice for life is in it, really. It kind of does hit the nail on the head a lot, with everything. It kind of has it all in there.

And then he sort of thinks; I suppose say “thank you” a lot more. Be grateful. And be grateful for where you are in life and what you do, I suppose. And everything’s a service. As a musician, I’m just in the business of being of service, you know, as a musician. I think that gets lost a bit in the music industry. I think everybody’s out for themselves. But it is. It’s just a service. You know. You’re just a vessel that music’s coming through you. It’s nothing that, kind of, special.

You know? You’re giving something over. I think you’ve got to look at life like that. Just be grateful for who you are and where you are at the moment.

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic, mate. And if anyone wants to get more of Wes Carr, where’s the best place to go?

Wes Carr: I’ve got a mailing list on my website. And I’m putting a weekly Wes Wednesday every Wednesday. In the afternoon, I send out just a little quote with a little thing every day about my; I don’t know. An experience I’ve had that week or just a quote that I’ve seen or heard of. Or talking to a dude on the street and he said this and I found it interesting. It’s just a little one-page thing to get you through the week. And it’s on my website WesCarr.com.au. And if you sign up to the mailing list, I send one every Wednesday.

And updates about where I’ll be and my shows and everything are all intertwined on the Wes Wednesday; what is it? Weekly Wes…

Guy Lawrence: The Weekly Wes Wednesday.

Wes Carr: I might have to change that.

Guy Lawrence: www…

Stuart Cooke: But you’ll have to change it to Thursday. It’s easier to pronounce.

Guy Lawrence: That’s brilliant, Wes. We’ll put the links under the show notes and everything, anyway, for people to be able to check out when we put the podcast out.

Wes Carr: Perfect. Yeah. Also, I just, on my Facebook I put videos up and everything, too. But, yeah, it’s all happening on my mailing list at the moment.

Guy Lawrence: Wes, we really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on the podcast. That was fantastic.

Wes Carr: Thank you, guys. Thank you so much.

Guy Lawrence: And I have no doubt people are gonna get a lot out of it. Awesome.

Wes Carr: Great. Thanks, guys. Cheers.

Stuart Cooke: Good on you, Wes.

Guy Lawrence: Thanks, buddy.

Wes Carr: Thanks.

Rebecca Creedy Ironwoman: Lowering Carbs & Supercharging my Diet. This is How I Did it…


rebecca creedyThe above video is 3 minutes 30 seconds long.

Listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

This week we welcome commonwealth gold medalist and Australian Ironwoman Rebecca Creedy to the show. The elite athlete shares with us how she transformed her diet, including lowering her carbs and eating more wholefoods. Along with this came a massive positive effect on her episodes of hypoglycemia which now seems to be a thing of the past.

We also go deep into her training regimes, pre and post workout nutrition and what she does to to stay on top of her game.


downloaditunesIn this episode we talk about:-

  • Why lowering her carbs has improved her wellbeing
  • How she looks to ‘supercharge’ her plate
  • The training schedule of an elite ironwoman
  • Her favourite cheat meal
  • How to stay motivated in those ‘weak’ moments
  • Tactics around recovery
  • And much much more…

CLICK HERE for all Episodes of 180TV

Get More of Rebecca Creedy Here:

supercharge your diet with a 180 natural protein smoothie here

Full Interview with Rebecca Creedy Transcript

 

Guy Lawrence: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition and welcome to another episode of Health Sessions. Our lovely guest today is Ironwoman Rebecca Creedy. Now, Rebecca has got an amazing resume when it comes to being an athlete, including winning the gold medal in swimming in the Commonwealth Games. She’s also competed and won medals at the World Championships. All that was by the age of 21. And she’s gone on and won an IronWoman series in 2012 and it was awesome to have her on the podcast today as she shares her journey with us.

She …We first met Rebecca about a year ago. She approached us, because she found us on the internet when she looking for a natural supplement, of all things, and discovered 180 and has been a avid user ever since, which I’m proud to say.

She … In her own words she was “looking to clean up the diet.” She suffered from hypoglycemia and it was affecting her races. So, she really started to delve deeper into the world of nutrition and recovery and see how she could improve it and has gone on and had a fantastic series, which is a Nutri-Grain Kellogg’s IronWoman Series, which just ended last weekend.

So, she shares with us all the things she’s learned and it’s just; yeah; fantastic to have her on and I have no doubt you’ll get a lot out of this podcast today, especially if you’re competing as a high-end athlete as well, because she really doesn’t rely on the carbohydrates as much and the goos and the gels, which is of course, renowned within the; especially in the endurance fields of athleticism. And it’s something which we agree with too, you know, but…

So, there’re gems of information all the way through this and I have no doubt you will enjoy.

As always, if you are listening to this through iTunes, we’d love you to leave a little review. It takes two minutes. Can be a little bit complicated, but it really helps us with our rankings and know that you are enjoying the podcast too. If you want to see this in video and leave a comment as well, just come over to our blog, which is 180nutrition.com.au.

And, yeah, that’s it. Enjoy the show and I’m sure to catch you soon. Cheers.

Guy Lawrence: All right, let’s do it. Hi, this is Guy Lawrence. I’m joined with Stuart Cooke as always. Hello Stuart.

Stuart Cooke: Hey.

Guy Lawrence: And our lovely guest today is Rebecca Creedy. Rebecca welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on.

Rebecca Creedy: Hey guys. Thanks for having me.

Guy Lawrence: I thought I’d kick off, Rebecca, you know, well, I was looking a your resume on Wikipedia this morning and it’s insanely impressive, but I thought you’d do a better job in sharing with the listeners a little bit about what you’ve achieved in your swimming accolades over the years and to our listeners; a better job than me anyway.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Yeah. Look, I come from a swimming background. I represented Australia at two Commonwealth Games, a World Championships, two Pan Pacific championships. Won Commonwealth Games gold medals; Commonwealth Games records. It was a pretty amazing part of my life. Yeah, I made my first Australian swim team at the age of 14. So yeah, 14 to 21; yeah, yep, swimming was my life. So, I was around back in the days with Ian Thorpe and amazing people like that. So, I got to spend a pretty big part of my life learning off some fairly amazing athletes and characters. So, yeah …

Guy Lawrence: What got you into swimming? Were you always like a water baby or did you…

Rebecca Creedy: I’ve always was. I’ve always loved it. I actually didn’t grow up near the beach. so I was, I grew up in Redcliffe which has a beach, but not a lot of people swim there. I grew up as a pool swimmer and I used to beg Mum and Dad to take me swimming every day. So, I got introduced to swimming younger than most and really excelled and loved every minute of it.

Guy Lawrence: There you go.

Stuart Cooke: Awesome. So, tell us, Commonwealth gold medalist to Ironwoman, how did that come about?


Rebecca Creedy: Look it was, it; to be honest it even shocks me when I sit here and talk about it. When I was swimming I used to watch the Ironman series on television and think, “Wow. That’s such an amazing sport. It looks like so much fun.” You know, it never really crossed my mind that one day I would be up there taking out medals in that arena as well. But I finished swimming at the age of 21 and I just lost that drive to really seek what it takes to succeed in swimming and moved overseas and lived the party lifestyle that I missed out on.

Guy Lawrence: I say yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: So, I got that in for a good XXunintelligibleXX [:04:48.7] two years and one XXtechnical glitchXX[:04:50.8] and, “What am I doing? This isn’t where I want to be.” So, I moved back home and decided to get fit again and XXunintelligible surf lifesaving??XX [[:04:59.2]. Yeah, it was quite amazing that just, I took to the ski really quickly and picked up the ski paddling really quickly and the board paddling was a lot harder and skills it takes to catch waves and that took a little bit longer, but it kind of all comes together in 12 months and next thing I knew I was trialing for the Nutri-Grain IronWoman series. So…

Stuart Cooke: That’s awesome.

Guy Lawrence: Can you explain exactly for our listeners, because I know people, especially back in the UK or whatever, the listeners won’t have a clue what an Ironman/IronWoman series is?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: Can you just explain the concept of it all to us?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. So, the Ironman series, it’s all based around surf lifesaving and we paddle boards and skis and also swim. So, it’s kind of like a triathlon of sorts. It’s a three-legged race that lasts anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and we do those three disciplines in a race in varying orders and it’s a lot of fun. We go out in big surf and get to battle the elements and it definitely is character-building.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. So, there’s three disciplines, because I’ve never, I’m trying to think so you’d be; there’s a ski, right? Which is the; like a big kayak, would you say?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, it’s like a kayak and we go out through the surf and the waves, so it’s a little bit, a little bit harder than sitting in a kayak. A kayak easy in still water …

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: So, trying to master sitting in the ski when there’s six-foot waves can be a little bit tricky. But to be honest, I really enjoy it and the ski is probably my favorite leg,

Guy Lawrence: Right. And then there’s the swim obviously.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, the swim obviously came quite naturally to me.

Guy Lawrence: And what’s the other leg? I actually don’t know.

Rebecca Creedy: It’s wood paddling. So, the boards, you see those on the beaches now. It’s based all around the fact that we paddle boards to save lives and yet, it’s a very similar board to what you’ll see on the beach with the lifesavers. So, it’s a little bit more slimline and designed to go a bit faster, but, yeah, we paddle the boards and trying to get that out through the waves as well, can be a little bit treacherous.

Guy Lawrence: I’m assuming that it’s very strategic, right, because you’re; what’s the word I’m looking for? But the elements are going to change the dynamic of each and every race.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: At, you know, what point would they say, “Sorry you’re not racing today, it’s too big like.” How big does it get out there?

Rebecca Creedy: It does get pretty crazy. Last year in Margaret River for the first two rounds of the Nutri-Grain series, they actually took out the ski leg of the women’s race because it was too big. We were a little bit disappointed in that because the girls believed we were capable of dealing with it. But unfortunately it was an executive decision that had to be made. The waves; it was probably about 7 foot and even bigger in some of the sets that were coming through. But, yeah, it was a little disappointing that we had to make that decision. But they generally either cancel the race before they do things like that. So, yeah, so, it all depends on I guess the level of skill of the people racing. So…

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. That’s huge. Because me and Stuart both in our XXtrans?? rideXX [:08:20.7] you know and XXgo hit the elements a bitXX. But I can really, after doing that, I would be terrified. I can really appreciate what you put yourself through, honestly, like, waves are scary I think.

Rebecca Creedy: They certainly are. I still get scared out there. I’m a late bloomer so I only started this sport at the age of 23, 24; so for me, some of the skills I really have to think about what I’m doing out there and sometimes I have to overcome my fears just to kind of put the foot on the line and really get myself in the game. But, you know, once you take that first leap of faith, it; all of a sudden you have this confidence in yourself, you know, “Yeah, yeah. I can do this. This is fine.” But, yeah, it’s taking that first step and really having belief and confidence in your skills.

Guy Lawrence: No doubt.

Stuart Cooke: No doubt.

Stuart Cooke: You’re looking shocked, Guy. I’m just picturing you doing your run, swim, run down at Coogee Beach in your Speedos … that’s enough for us. But I see it down there, because I; Guy and myself are in the surf club and I do water safety for the nippers down there as well on a Sunday and you see these little kids who; I do the under 9’s, and we take them out in, you know, in sizable surf for their age and height and some of them just shine and just take to it and some of them are less so and quite scared. But they build that confidence at that early age and I think it just sets you up fantastically, especially for a country like Australia where we spend a lot of time in the water. It’s almost vital and it’s fantastic.

Guy Lawrence: It’s amazing.

Rebecca Creedy: I think, I think it’s a great sport for confidence. You know it’s not always about the fastest person winning and it is a skill-based work, you know, XXtechnical glitchXX [:10:06.9] public, I stay away from rips and things like that, but when it comes down to racing in surf lifesaving we use things like that to be able to the battle the elements and you know the fastest way out and easiest way out in big surf is straight out through the rip. It’s using things like that and that knowledge that you gain and understanding how the ocean works, it really does set you up for life. And I think if the general public understood a little bit more about the surf, it would make the whole; everyone a lot safer, but it takes years; it’s taken me years. I’ve been doing this sport for seven years now and I really feel that this year’s the first time I’ve really started to shine and really, I guess, set myself up for a even better series and a chance to take out the series next year.

Guy Lawrence: Because the series has just finished, right; which is the Nutri-Grain Kellogg’s?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. The Kellogg’s Nutri-Grain Ironman series, we did six rounds, So, we had two starting off over in Margaret River. Then we did two just here on Surfer’s Paradise and more local beaches and then we did two down in Newcastle and that was just last weekend. So, that was; it was an amazing series. I stayed consistent. Yeah, I got some fantastic results and I walked away really happy with how my season panned out.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, fantastic and you came in second overall, right? That’s phenomenal. If I’m not mistaken, amazing.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, second overall. I got on the top podium once this series, which was amazing, especially with such fantastic competitors. Liz Pluimers took out nearly every race, but managed to stop her taking the clean sweep.

Stuart Cooke: Fantastic. It’s awesome to watch, too, because we used to have the final down in Coogee, and I know if you remember that, Guy, so we used to go down there.

Guy Lawrence: I do. Yeah, I’ve been down there.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, I remember, you didn’t wave back when I was there. But, it’s really a great spectator sport and I love the fact that you don’t really; you don’t really know who’s won until right at the very last moment because anything can happen in the surf. You can pick up a wave on the ski or the board and everything changes, so so much fun to watch.


Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Yeah. Look, you know, people talk a lot about luck and things like that, but you can get a little bit unlucky, but usually find the people that do well can regulate, they just have the skills, they know where to put themselves, they know how to catch that wave that’s going to be coming through and things like that. So, it’s quite amazing. I love it. It’s frustrating sometimes. I got one race this year that I probably should have won and it didn’t quite happen, but it’s moments like that you kind of kick yourself and go, “Oh, those bloody waves.”

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: But, we always like racing the waves. It’s a nice little rest in between …

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, I bet.

Rebecca Creedy: … the next leg. So, yeah.

Guy Lawrence: So, what is your typical training day look like to prepare for an event like this?

Rebecca Creedy: Oh, it gets hectic. This off season I did the Coolangatta Gold, which is actually a five-hour race.
Guy Lawrence: Oh my.

Rebecca Creedy: So, it consists of the 20 kilometer ski paddle, 2K run, then a 4K swim and then a 7K board paddle and then another 7 1/2 K run at the end. So, to train for that this year, that really took it to the next level for me; a lot of, basically training three times a day. Trying to get your swim in every morning, board and skis in the afternoon and then a run on top of that. The one thing I had to drop this year was my gym program. I just; it’s basically something that I’m very; I’m a very strong athlete anyway, I’m very muscle-y, so it’s not something I really have to focus on too much. So, for me it was probably the first thing I decided to drop this year. At 31, it can be quite hard to recover in between sessions and I may have an idea of everything I want to achieve that week, but sometimes it doesn’t work out that way and you have to take that rest your body needs.

Guy Lawrence: Because you’re training at skills as well as fitness, right? It’s not like a runner, for instance, they’ll just go and run and expand their run and improve their time and things like that. Like there’s so many variables to what you’re doing …

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: … and to stay on top of that as well.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, it is. Like sometimes when there’s big surf on the; the most beneficial thing you can do is go out and go for a surf. It’s learning how to read the surf and get out quickly through the surf is just as important and how to catch that wave all the way to the beach. You know, if I can’t hold a wave in my ski then, to be honest, all the training I did on the lake isn’t going to help me.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: So, yeah, those little skills can be just as important as the speed-based and endurance training that we do. So, yeah, it can be tricky sometimes and I’m very fortunate I’ve got a great coach behind me, who’s also my partner, that teaches me some amazing skills and has passed on all his knowledge to me. So, yeah, I’m very lucky in that way.

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic.

Stuart Cooke: So, what about motivation? Where do you go, I mean, you even mentioned those longer legs where you’ve got 20K, you know, paddles and skis and 7K; I’m guessing that’s soft sand run as well, is it?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, well luckily it was low tide.

sc. Right. Okay. Excellent.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, but no it’s still, it’s still really hard and I’m not a natural runner, I’m a real water baby. So, for me that run leg was pretty tricky. I did a lot of running in the off season, which I don’t really enjoy, but I guess it’s just getting the most out of yourself that’s, you know, we all have days where I don’t want to get out bed and don’t necessarily want to go and do the swimming, but I’m 31 and I do these things for me now and I don’t feel like I have to do it for someone else. So, I just love the thought of being the best I can be. And I find that’s what motivates me the most is being proud of myself and the things I’ve achieved and, yeah, I guess I like being that person that people consider the tough competitor and the one that’s hard to mentally break and that as well, so that keeps me driven as well.

Guy Lawrence: What time is your first training session?

Rebecca Creedy: Five o’clock in the pool, XXunintelligible so 4:30 get up most days?XX [:16:48.3] As I’ve gotten older, though, I must admit I don’t really enjoy getting up early. So, I’m fortunate enough I do XXmix it up? 0:17:01.000XX at times and if I’m not feeling motivated to swim at that time I’ll swap it around and I’ll do a lighter session or I’ll go swimming in the afternoon and do a board session in the morning. And that’s really important for me at my age, because I do this sport because I love it and I don’t want to take that away. And forcing myself to do things I’m not enjoying I don’t believe gets the most out of my training and yet it’s definitely going to shorten my career if I’m just pushing and pushing and pushing. So, I think the number one key is to enjoy what you do and to just make it work for you, which is what I’ve really, really taken on board this year.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, amazing.

Guy Lawrence: It’s amazing.

Stuart Cooke: You’ve certainly got the right environment, I think, backdrop, to enjoy what you do. I mean, the beach up there is just pristine, so beautiful.

Rebecca Creedy: It really is. It’s a great lifestyle and that’s what I tell people. I’m avoiding the real world because, to be honest, it’s not a bad lifestyle I have here. It’s doing something I love every day. It just drives you, definitely.

Guy Lawrence: It’s magical, yeah. Magical. So, what do you; what do you use for recovery? Like, what tactics do you do, because obviously recovery is a big component of your training as well, you know.

Rebecca Creedy: Absolutely. I think, you know, I’m not 16 anymore and I can definitely feel that. It does get hard. And for me, being able to read my body is super important and understand what it needs. Fueling it in the right way. Putting what it needs into it. When you’re younger, you know, you have a tendency to eat just whatever you want and otherwise I’ve been quite fortunate. I’ve never had to really worry about my weight. So, I’d finish a training session and I’d chomp down on a chocolate bar or something. Whereas, as I’ve gotten older I’ve really listened to how my body responds to things and it’s been really important in my recovery this year and probably the last two years, I’ve noticed the changes. I guess fueling it with the right sources and things that my body, I guess, responds to in the way that it can back up the next session. So, yeah, that’s been really important and I guess 180 Nutrition has been a massive part of that. Something I seeked out from you guys and …

Guy Lawrence: Yep. I mean that’s how we first met, right? Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: Absolutely. A little Facebook message saying I found your product and I think it’s great and I’d love to get on board. And, yeah, I went from the typical; the typical brands you use that are over-processed and artificially flavored things that I just found weren’t doing what I needed and when I found this natural product I was really happy and I’ve been stoked with how it’s really assisted me in my recovery.

Guy Lawrence: Now that’s good to hear. We appreciate it.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: You look like you are going to say something, Stu.

Stuart Cooke: Well, yeah. I was just; I noticed that your diet has changed quite radically from what we’ve seen and heard over the last 12 months. Have you had any other kind of “aha” moments that you’ve taken on board where your kind of old-style eating versus your new style? And I’m thinking, kind of, you know, carbohydrate-loading versus more kind of natural nutrient-dense foods to help you in your training and competitions.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Look I’ve always; I’ve never really been a massive fan of carbs. I really don’t like the way they feel, like they make me feel. I’ve; it’s something I’ve spoken to a few people about and they don’t necessarily believe you need them to race on as well. So, for me I’ve always tried to, I guess, balance that quite well in my diet, but I guess it’s finding you guys and your product and I guess reading and understanding a little bit more about the clean eating philosophy and things like that it’s made it a lot easier for me to make that decision to steer away from a lot more, simply because most carbohydrates are really processed, contain a lot of artificial preservatives and things like that. So, it’s really helped me, I guess, develop my thinking toward products like that. So, yes.

Guy Lawrence: I think as well, what we found over the years with athletes, that they generally eat, like you say, carbs, but they don’t carry any other nutrients. They sort of; it’s almost like they’re pure glucose, you know and there’s no actual vitamins, minerals and fiber and everything else that the body needs to help recover as well, you know, to get up and do it all over again.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Absolutely.

Guy Lawrence: I think it’s a good message.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Well, that’s something to really think about. Every meal I make I try and think about all those vitamins and minerals my body needs. In the past I’ve had problems with things like low vitamin B, low iron and I’m also; I do have hypoglycemia. So, for me I know when I’m not putting the right things in my body, because I can go training and within 20 minutes into the session I’ll be having a hypo. So, for me, that’s; and as I’ve gotten older I noticed my episodes happening more and more often, so that was a real turning point as well, But being able to eat properly so those things don’t happen, because when it’s inhibiting my training that’s really, really negative.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. And have you been noticed improvements with that since you’ve been eating more whole foods and things like that?

Rebecca Creedy: Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, I can’t actually remember the last time I had one. I did get to a XXstage?XX [:22:49.3] point where I had to keep gels and all sorts of things in my bag just because I never knew when I was going to have one. And it’s a horrible feeling. You just start shaking and you just feel like you’ve got nothing in you because you probably don’t. So, for me, every meal I make like, even when I make a salad, I don’t use lettuce, I use spinach leaves. I just think about little things like that. It’s how can I get the most out of this meal and to put the best things into my body as possible.


Guy Lawrence: When we do the seminars Stu, you always mention that, right?

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. We call it super charging your plate. So like you just said, if you, if you’re going to make a salad, how can you super charge it? And so you’ve gone for the most nutrient kind of dense, kind of leaf and then we’d look at putting it in some, well let’s add some nuts, and seeds and olive oil and get some quality proteins and you know, more of the natural fats as well. And that kind of mindset on every meal that you prepare can really set you up for really enhanced health moving forward, because you just get more nutrients into your body, which is a fantastic thing.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Absolutely. And that’s what I love about, I guess, the 180 Nutrition supplement, as well, is I can integrate it into my diet in more ways than one. I don’t just have to have it as a shake. I love making my porridges in the morning and I throw that in there and it gives it that extra flavor. I add some berries to give me my antioxidants. I have my yogurt. Just little things like that, that it all just kind of works together and it’s really easy to throw something together with it to make a meal instead of just a supplement.

Guy Lawrence: It takes time though, right? It doesn’t happen overnight? You can’t just go, “right” and switch in and expect results. It’s a lifestyle.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Absolutely and that’s why I don’t like using the word “diet,” because I’ve never really been one to diet and it’s just; I do what I need to do to make my body feel good.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: And that’s like they say, “It’s a lifestyle.” and it can be hard sometimes. When I’m traveling a lot and overseas and you’re trying to look for a quick meal, it can be really tough and sometimes I do revert back to my old habits and I do notice it.

Guy Lawrence: And there good reminders, right?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I had a nice wake-up call one Monday morning after the Nutri-Grain series when I had a bit of a shindig on the last night and XXunintelligibleXX [:25.22.5] things like that any more. So …

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. Tell me about it.

Rebecca Creedy: You know, as you grow up you’re kind of better at making those kinds of decisions and choices and, yeah, you realize that there are other options out there and especially the way supermarkets are these days. It’s really becoming an accepted way to eat and it makes it a lot easier ducking down to the supermarket to pick up the ingredients you need that five years ago you wouldn’t have seen on the shelves.


Stuart Cooke: Yeah, exactly.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. So …

Stuart Cooke: So, what about, thinking about food on your race days, how do you structure your food? What do you prepare and eat on those kind of critical days?

Rebecca Creedy: You know, look, it’s dependent on what’s available. I love having a cooked meal before a race, if I can. I’m a big mushroom eater. So, for me a nice big plate of spinach with some mushrooms on top and a couple of poached eggs is fantastic for me. I love some sweet potato pancakes in there too. They’re always good and a great form of carbs.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: But you know sometimes, especially when you’re racing away, it’s not always that easy. We need to be down on the beach quite early so, without that available I love getting a nice natural muesli and adding my 180 Nutrition protein to it. And then I mix it in with some natural yogurt, plain natural yogurt, as low-sugar as possible and I just like to sweeten that up with some berries. And I really find that that really gives me the kick I need to kind of carry on, carry on through the day, because most of the time, you know, I’m down on the beach at 7 o’clock in the morning and don’t really get my next meal until about lunchtime. So, yeah, it can be tough when you’re racing sometimes to get something into your system that’s going to last that kind of period.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. I find the whole thing fascinating. I think the message is getting out there to more and more with athletes, because we get a lot more inquires from endurance athletes especially as well. And because we’ve got Sami Inkinen coming on the podcast next week and he’s a tri-athlete. But him and his wife rowed from California to Hawaii and …

Rebecca Creedy: Really?

Guy Lawrence: And physically rowed and it took them 44 days and they were rowing; what was it Stu? Fourteen to eighteen hours a day. And they did it all on whole foods with no gels or anything and the message was just to, you know, avoid sugar and actually XXunintelligibleXX[:28:04.0] …

Stuart Cooke: XXunintelligibleXX [:28:04.2] I think to highlight the importance of real food. And I think the message is kind of clear that no one diet suits everyone. We’re all so radically different and you know, what works for me won’t work for Guy and may work for you. We just got to find that sweet spot and you know what it is, because you feel fantastic, your sleep’s good, your energy’s good and you know, your health just feels great. So, it’s really important just to keep trying and testing and I think our bodies change over time as well. What we ate in our teens doesn’t work in our 20s to our 30s and 40s, so on. So, you just got to find what works for you, I think.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Look, I completely agree and it’s something that as I’ve gotten older I love reading and researching about what people are talking about and I don’t know if you guys watched Catalyst last night. They actually had a big thing about carbohydrates and the guy that actually originated making gels and he was the first one to stand there and say, “I was completely wrong.”

Guy Lawrence: Oh wow!

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, and it’s really amazing. So, if you can get on and look that up, I only saw part of it. I want to go and finish watching it, actually, and it talks about carbohydrates and how our body uses them and how we shouldn’t be relying on them as much. And it was really amazing to hear researchers that were actually the, I guess, the first stepping stone in that process of thought, standing there and saying, “No, I totally disagree with what I wrote ten years ago.” So, that’s quite an amazing thing to see people like that in their fields.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. It’s exciting. You know, new science is springing up every single day and we’re finding out things that we just didn’t have access to years ago and it’s, it’s certainly now we’ve got a whole barrage of information that can help us in the right direction.

Rebecca Creedy: I’m a science-based person and I just love reading about it. For me; anything I find, something I want to try, I want to go read the science on that first and …


Stuart Cooke: Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: And the ABC have done a fantastic job. You know, they’re always bringing out great messages around nutrition and making people sort of think twice about what they’re doing.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. No, and it’s good to see someone going out and doing the science instead of standing there and saying, you know, people are so quick to say “Paleo’s wrong.” But why? Not many people looking for the reason why it is. So…

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: And I think, as well, when you’re an athlete like yourself that is putting so much demands on your body, it really then highlights how powerful nutrition is, because, you know like you said yourself, the more actuate your nutrition is, the more you can continue to recover quicker, feel better and do it all over again. You know, if you’re sitting on a chair all day doing nothing, you can get away with a lot more, but it just shows you the effects of nutrition, I think, when you get to that level, you know what can happen.

Rebecca Creedy: I can even feel it some days. When I’ll get up and do my 4:30 set, I’ll be up at 4:30 doing my 5 o’clock session and I’ll come home, I’ll have a sleep, I’ll eat, obviously, have a sleep. And some days I honestly can’t even think of training until 4 o’clock in the afternoon and I can actually feel the time, it’s about 2:30, 3 o’clock, my body finally starts to say, “Okay, your ready to do another session now.” So, every now and then I’ll try and do a 2 o’clock session and I just go, “no.” My body’s not ready to get back into it yet and it’s seems like that, you know, you need to listen to and learn those responses and when your body’s saying “yes” and “no” and things like that.

Stuart Cooke: Always. Absolutely right.

Guy Lawrence: So … go on Stu.

Stuart Cooke: Well, Guy, I was just going to jump in and just ask about winding down and relaxing.. So, you’re so fast-paced and you’ve got this manic training schedule and competition schedule. What do you do to wind down? How do you relax?

Rebecca Creedy: I’m not very good at relaxing. I actually work in the surf club upstairs, so I actually work as a bartender and waitress, which can also make it even harder to wind down sometimes.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: You know, at work I have to be very happy and personable and things like that and sometimes I get home and it’s like all I want to do is just sit in a corner and not talk to anyone for an hour.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: So, it’s definitely important that I get my “me time” and actually, I actually find training helps that. The one thing about being a swimmer is you get to spend a lot of time by yourself. And, yeah, so spending that time on the black line [:32:59.3] and thinking about me and it can sometimes be a great way to chill out and I actually; if I don’t exercise I find I go a little bit nuts.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. I can completely appreciate that, especially with the swimming aspect, because we do a fair bit of ocean swimming and when you get out there into the rhythm, it’s almost mediation. You know, you’re going through the motions of stroking and turning and you can swim for an hour or so and just process thoughts and just kind of you know, de-stress that way. That’s kind of what we do too, definitely get out there and just immerse yourself in some way where you’re not constantly thinking about other stuff. It’s great to kind of switch off the mind, it you can.

Rebecca Creedy: I’m a real nature lover. I have a degree in environmental science, so for me just getting out and being with nature, whether it’s going for a walk in the bush or something like that. I love taking my dog out and just getting away from it. And, yeah, you know, being on the ocean and being out there and feeling nature and it does relax you and it kind of takes away all the pressures and strains. It doesn’t expect anything from you. So, yeah, that’s probably my biggest cure.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, I like it. I like it.

Guy Lawrence: I want to touch on, quickly on sleep before we move on. How many hours a night do you sleep, Rebecca, normally?

Rebecca Creedy: Um …

Guy Lawrence: Or day and night or …

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah look, I probably don’t get as much as I should. I’m not; I’ve never been a good sleeper. I go through phases where I sleep really well and then other phases where I don’t. I have trouble switching off, is my biggest problem. So, I find when I’m not training I actually sleep about four or five hours a night sometimes. But when I’m training I try to get at least six hours, seven hours is usually the main, like six to seven hours is probably standard. And then if I can get an hour or two during the day that’s brilliant, but I don’t like to rely on daytime sleeps because I used to sleep a lot during the day when I was pool swimmer and I find it’s just a bad habit.


Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: It’s nice to use it as recovery and things like that, but when I have to work a lot of the time during the day and I have to start sleeping regularly, I find it really throws out my body clock. I find it harder to sleep at night and I really like to just try and stick to a pattern. So, for me I try to be in bed by 10 o’clock at the latest. You know, it just gets hard with life. I get home from training at 6:30 at night and then I have to make dinner and I have to clean up and then I like to have my wind-down time and things like that. So, it can get quite hectic, but as I said, you know, the hardest part in the morning is getting up and once you’re in that water and …

Guy Lawrence: It’s all worth it.

Rebecca Creedy: And, yeah it is and it’s just you and your thoughts and you working against yourself and pushing yourself to the next level and it’s; it’s amazing what your body can do and work off. I don’t believe I feel sleep-deprived most of the time.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: I get my weekend to catch up and then I’m ready to go again.

Stuart Cooke: Again, it’s finding what works for you and again, sleep is such a hot topic. You know my sleep is all over the place too and I’m constantly trying to find what works for me and you just got to dial into these little nuances that just assist you in get in that extra quality, I guess.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, because my other problem is, is that I find when I start sleeping in I’ll have a sleep in morning one morning and then it throws me off for the next night and I can’t get to sleep at night and things like that. I think sometimes I think I’m not getting enough sleep, but I think I also don’t necessarily work as efficiently when I have to much sleep either. So, it’s finding the balance and taking what you need when you need.

Stuart Cooke: Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: Exactly.

Stuart Cooke: What we’re going to do as well, just; we want to just back track a little bit into nutrition and we generally ask every guest this question as well. What did you eat yesterday and just blitz through maybe just breakfast to evening meal, just because people …

Guy Lawrence: Are curious.

Stuart Cooke: … want to eat; people are curious, they want to eat like and IronWoman. Absolutely.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Look I guess for breakfast I had; I basically try to eat the same thing as often as possible in the mornings, as I can. Especially being an athlete it’s really important that my body knows what it’s; I like to do it as a racing thing particularly every day before an Iron session, I’ll eat the same thing that I’m going to eat probably on race day. So …

Guy Lawrence: Right

Rebecca Creedy: I have my muesli, my natural muesli, followed with two scoops of the chocolate protein powder …

Stuart Cooke: Yep, yep.

Rebecca Creedy: … a plain all natural yogurt and some frozen berries mixed through that as well and I find that’s a great, a great meal, especially at the moment when I’m having a lot of wake up training, because it really ties over my hunger as well. And yesterday I had to work all day so, yeah, it’s great for when I’m at work because I can’t necessarily just grab a snack if I want to.

And then for the evening meal, I love a good steak so, for me it was a nice big piece of steak …

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: … and again, just a natural salad. So, I have heaps of spinach leaves, tomato, capsicum, snow peas, cucumbers. I do like my cheese, so I like to put a bit of feta in there and then just a balsamic and olive oil dressing. So, for me that really hits the spot. For my boyfriend, though, he insists that he has to have garlic bread with it. That keeps him happy. That keeps me happy.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, that’s what it’s all about, that’s what it’s all about.

Rebecca Creedy: It can be hard to balance meals sometimes when you’ve got someone isn’t so concerned about their nutrition.

Stuart Cooke: Exactly. Keep the home a happy one is what I say.

Guy Lawrence: Exactly.

Rebecca Creedy: Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: So, we’ve got one more question that we always ask on the show as well and this can be related to anything. What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Rebecca Creedy: Keeping yourself happy, I think. Putting yourself first. Yeah. Without you being happy, you know, a lot of what you do is a waste of time and I particularity find that with training. If I’m not happy my results show it. As I said again, I’m not happy when I wake up at 5 o’clock in the morning every day of the week. So for me, if I feel like I need I call, I think they call it these days a “mental health day.” I give myself a mental health day regularly. Some days I just have a day off training and I go do something that I wouldn’t have time to do otherwise and I go do shopping and I go to my favorite shop, which is Lululemon and I go there and I buy myself something nice and it makes me feel better and then the next day I’m ready to attack what I’m doing and do it properly and do it at a better, I guess, at a better effort level than I would have if I hadn’t a taken that time. So, I think it’s just knowing when to step back and reassess and I guess mentally build yourself up and get ready to do what you need to do.

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic.

Stuart Cooke: I like it. I completely agree with that and I’m going to take the rest of the day off Guy.

Guy Lawrence: Are you going to go clothes shopping, Stu?

Stuart Cooke: I am. I’m going to get something from Lululemon.

Rebecca Creedy: I know, it’s really sad when your favorite shop’s like a sport shop, isn’t it?

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, what does that tell you.

Rebecca Creedy: I don’t know, but it’s good. I can wear them into the gym and then I can wear them out of the gym.

Guy Lawrence: Exactly.

Stuart Cooke: They do make some good clothes. I’ll give you that.

Guy Lawrence: So, what does the future hold for you, Rebecca? What’s coming up? Do you know?


Rebecca Creedy: Yes. This week, as I said, has been a bit of a wind-down for me. It’s coming towards, I guess, the series has ended, but we’ve still got; we’ve got State Team coming up on Australia Day actually, down in Sydney at Manly Beach. So, I’m looking forward to that. We’ll have three days of competition at three different carnivals. So, that will be a little bit intense. But, mainly that’s a fun competition. It takes off a little bit of the pressure, I guess, not having, you know, the 15 girls for the series fighting it out. It’s all about getting there and racing, having a good time, making mistakes and catching up with people you don’t get to see very often. Then we go on to state titles, for Queensland state titles. And that will be, I think it’s in February and then I finish off the year in April with the Australian titles, which is; it’s all about the club racing for those two and I’m a member of BMD Northcliffe and they’ve been the Australian champion club, I think, for ten years now. So, I’m looking forward to racing for them in some team events and again taking our team to the next level and taking out that title again. So …

Stuart Cooke: I think they’re probably looking forward to you racing for them as well, aren’t they?

Rebecca Creedy: Oh yeah. Yeah, no, we’ve got some great girls in our club. You know, we all love racing as much as each other, so it’s great to be part of a team that all have similar goals and that want to go out there and do the best for the club and also for themselves. So, yeah, it will definitely be an interesting off season I’m sure.

Stuart Cooke: Fantastic.

Guy Lawrence: Awesome. And go on, Stu, are you going to speak?

Stuart Cooke: Well, I was just going to literally; you know, for people who want to find more about you, where would they go? What would be the best place to a bit more of Rebecca Creedy?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, look there’s been, we’ve got the Kellogg’s Nutri-Grain IronWoman website now, which has, it’s got a profile in there of me and also some personal questions that I’ve answered as well. And so, that’s one thing. But I’m also on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and I’m pretty easy to find, because I’m the only Rebecca Creedy really in the world, which is quite convenient. But, yeah, I have the same name for all of them, which is Bec Creedy, so that’s beccreedy and that’s my user name for all three accounts.

Guy Lawrence: We’ll put some links there, because I know you update your Facebook page on a regular basis with all your swims and skis.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, we’re getting right into it. So, no, I think people definitely appreciate seeing pictures and things like that, so I try to stay on top of that some and even get a little bit of insight into my personal life as well.

Stuart Cooke: Exactly. Fantastic. Sounds great.

Guy Lawrence: That was phenomenal. Thanks so much for coming on the show and I have not doubt everyone going to get a lot out of that, when they listen to that. Awesome.

Rebecca Creedy: Thank you.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah and we hope to see you in Manly then, in Sydney, in our neck of the woods.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, yeah. I’ll have to drop you a line and let you know and we’ll catch up for a XXunintelligibleXX [:44:37.3].

Guy Lawrence: Absolutely.

Stuart Cooke: Let’s do that. We’ll see if we can get Guy in his Coogee Club Speedos.

Rebecca Creedy: Actually, I’m going to be in Bondi, too. I think I’m staying in Bondi the Monday after Australia Day.

Stuart Cooke: OK.

Guy Lawrence: OK. Good.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, I’m not going back till Tuesday, so …

Stuart Cooke: Right next door.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, well Courtney [:44:55.9] and I are coming and having a girls’ weekend. So, staying for an extra night or two.

Stuart Cooke: We might gate-crash you for a cup of coffee.

Rebecca Creedy: Sounds good. Sounds good.

Stuart Cooke: Okay. That is brilliant. Again, thank you so much for your time, really appreciate it. Its been awesome.

Guy Lawrence: Awesome.

Rebecca Creedy: Awesome. Thanks so much guys. I really appreciate it.

Guy Lawrence: Thank you.

Stuart Cooke: Thanks Bec.

Rebecca Creedy: All right.

Stuart Cooke: It’s good to see you.

The Secret to Exercising Without it Feeling Like Exercise – Darryl Edwards

The video above is 2 minutes 58 seconds long

darryl edwards fitness explorerGuy: Do you struggle to motivate yourself for exercise? Then this 2 minute gem above is a must watch as Darryl shares with us the secret to exercising without it feeling like exercise!

Darryl Edwards is a movement therapist, paleo nutritionist, blogger and published author of the book “Paleo Fitness”. Based over in the UK, his main focus is primal nutrition for disease prevention, health, body composition, performance and well-being.

From former coach potato to a fantastic ambassador of true health and fitness, Darryl shares with us the lessons he’s has learned along the way. He also a seriously fun and playful guy and we had a lot laughs recording this.

Full Interview: Couch Potato to Becoming The Fitness Explorer. A Transformational Story


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In this episode we talk about:-

  • The biggest key to turning your health around
  • Is the paleo diet is for everyone?
  • How to apply paleo with ease to your whole lifestyle
  • Motivation. How to get going daily
  • How to turn your environment into your gymnasium
  • And much much more…

CLICK HERE for all Episodes of 180TV

Get More of Darryl Edwards:

Darryl Edwards Transcript

Guy Lawrence: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence from 180 Nutrition, and welcome to another episode of the Health Sessions. So, our special guest today is Darryl Edwards. He’s also known as The Fitness Explorer. And in his own words, he was a couch potato and he said he journeyed into the world, I guess, of primal fitness, holistic health, and paleo nutrition. And it’s transformed his life and now he’s out there helping others with the same journey, I guess, you know?

The one thing that was very clear about this podcast today is that Darryl is a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun doing it. It was a very relaxed conversation. I got a lot out of it. It makes me want to go and bear crawl across the sand when I leave the room in a minute.

And I love the way Darryl actually looks at, I guess you could say the holistic approach to everything. And I have no doubt whether you are a couch potato or whether you are going to the gym six days a week, if you listen to this it will make you think a little bit differently about your approach.

As always, if you’re listening to this through iTunes, please leave us a little review, a little bit of feedback. It’s always great to hear and, of course, it helps our rankings and gets the word out there. And of course come over to our website. You can sign up to our email and we send this content out on a regular basis so you don’t have to miss anything, which is, of course, 180Nutrition.com.au.

Anyway, enough of me talking. Let’s go over to Darryl and enjoy the show.

All right. This is Guy Lawrence. I’m joined with Stuart Cooke and our special guess today is The Fitness Explorer Darryl Edwards. Darryl, welcome. Thanks for joining us on the show, mate.

Darryl Edwards: Thanks for the invitation. I’m really looking forward to the chat.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, it’s great to have you on. And I was just; we were chatting to Stu, you know, because we were discussing literally about the transformation you’ve been on over the years, you know, and you even mentioned on record you were a skinny fat person at one time. And clearly now you’ve gone on and you’re, you could say, exploring fitness. You know: You’re a paleo advocate; nutritionist. And what I’d love to kick off with is, I guess, what was the tipping point? Where did your journey begin and now you’re out there, you know, spreading the good word?

Darryl Edwards: Yeah. I suppose my journey began with me getting, you know, kind of an early warning sign or signs about the state of my health after an annual health checkup. And basically the report that I was presented wasn’t good news. So, you know, everything from hypertension, I was pre-diabetic, I was anemic, I had a whole host of issues in terms of my blood panel. My lipid profile was off. And what I was told was that the only way out of this was a series of meds. Was medication.

And: “It runs in the family.” Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And it was like: “This is the option for you. Take some medication and everything will be fine, but you’ll just be dependent on this for the rest of your days. Or, you can look at your lifestyle.”

And I didn’t really have many suggestions from my doctor as to what that lifestyle choice should be. So, I had to resort to investigations and research of my own. And I had read paleo diet, you know, a few years previous; prior. And I kind of went back to it and I was, like, “Hold on a second.” Something kind of didn’t make sense when I read it initially, but the second time around, in the context of how I was feeling and what I recognized I had to do, which was a back-to-basics; a kind of go back to the basics. You Know: be more aligned with nature. And that kind of appealed to me.

So, the diet was the gateway to the rest of the lifestyle. And that research led me to kind of evolutionary biology, evolutionary medicine, evolutionary fitness. The whole kind of, well, if I’m eating the foods that are optimal for health based on nature’s design, then surely there are other aspects of the lifestyle that are just as important. Movement was one. You know. Then, looking at everything else.

Guy Lawrence: So, it took a scare, basically, for you to make change.

It’s interesting that you mentioned that you read the paleo books three years prior. And a question had popped in at the time. Did that; did you sort of read it and go, “Oh, wow. This is interesting. This makes sense.”? Or did you go, “Pfft. I don’t know about this. This all sounds a bit woo-woo. Or…”

Darryl Edwards: Yeah. I guess. I suppose, I mean, it was long time ago now. It was over 10 years ago now. So, when I, yeah, I mean, I remember kind of questioning the whole argument around, you know, I’ve got nothing in common with the caveman. You know, it sounds very romantic and idealistic about everything was just perfect pre-agriculture. And it just didn’t; it was like, yeah, it sounds like a great idea, but how is that gonna fit in with the 21st century? How is that going to fit in with my life today?

But when I had that kind of health scare and when I recognized that whatever I was doing and whatever was conventional wasn’t working for me, I had to basically pin my hopes on a different direction, and I think a back-to-basics concordance with nature seemed to fit. It kind of made sense.

And having the before-and-after snapshot, which was a health snapshot, presenting really good results after three to six months, you know, repeating the blood tests and everything being great, it was like, OK, I don’t know why this is working, necessarily, but it works.

And that was good enough for me to realize I had to maintain the same, that journey and that same sort of path, and then do more research and find out, well, why is this actually working and what else do I need to know in order for me to make this really a part of my life rather than just a three- to six-month transition and then revert back to my old lifestyle. What I am going to do to make this part of my life until the end of my days?

Stuart Cooke: Why do you think it did work for you? What were the standouts where, perhaps, what were the differences before and after that really made such a difference to you?

Darryl Edwards: Um. That’s a really good question. I mean, I suppose just removing processed foods, removing foods that, wherever you, again, it’s even today I’m still toying with the importance or the relevance of avoiding grains, avoiding dairy. And by removing those food; removing those items, you know, and focusing on real food, focusing on food that I could; if civilization ended tomorrow and I was on a desert island, what are the foods that would be available to me?

And that makes sense to me. You know: How long would it take me to hunt down a cow and, you know, produce milk? What will it take for me to do that? You know? What would it take for me to find; to get some wheat from a field to kind of break the kernel down, to grind it for several days just to produce a few grams of flour.

It’s like all of that process-intensive, labor-intensive work just to get relatively poor-quality foodstuff. You know what I mean?

So it’s like I think just a focus on natural produce, removing several steps of the manufacturing process and chemical processing and artificial foodstuffs. I mean, that’s the real benefit of paleo. And then the agriculture or pre- or post-agricultural argument, is debatable. But I think even going back 20, 30, 40 years ago, going back to my childhood, the food I was eating back then as a child was far more healthful than what most people will eat today.

So, going back, when I was eating meat as a child, my parents wouldn’t go to a supermarket to get food. They would go to a greengrocer’s, a butcher’s, a fishmonger’s. That would happen. There was no; everything was kind of organic.

So, it was the obvious choice as a kid. And then as an adult you decide, “Oh, no. I prefer convenience. I prefer what’s gonna cook in two minutes in a microwave.” Those are the decisions I was making in terms of food. And so it’s not surprising that I was suffering as a consequence.

It’s no surprise. No fat in my diet. Dairy that; I was suffering from dairy consumption, and just believing it was OK to deal with that. So, every couple of days I’d have my cereal. I’d then spend much of the morning on the toilet. And I was, “Oh, yes. This is just how it is. This is just the norm.”

But when dairy was removed from my diet…

Stuart Cooke: It’s insane, isn’t it? I’ve got a story about dairy, and this takes me back to my teenage years. When my skin was appalling, so, it was erupting, and I went to the doctor’s and the doctor said, well, I’m gonna give you some antibiotics. And of course at that stage of my life, I had no idea about the importance of a healthy gut and gut bacteria to keep me thriving. And so I went on a course of antibiotics. And it helped a little bit. But this course continued for about four years; four or five years. And so I was on antibiotics every single day for about five years.

And it didn’t really seem to fix the problem. And then I remember reading one day about dairy and how dairy can affect hormones and hormones are linked to skin. And so I cut out dairy.

And at that time, I loved cheese. You know, I was pizza-eating challenge at college and I could eat cheese and pickle sandwiches every single day. And so I cut it out. Three weeks later: completely clear. And that’s the trigger.

And you’re told that there is no relationship between what we consume and how we look and fill, but I think it’s a different story, completely.

Darryl Edwards: Yeah, for sure. Totally agree. I mean, it’s pretty much obvious that what you eat; you are what you eat. People don’t choose to believe that and it’s unfortunate that, as you said, most of the kind of medical and conventional establishment will say, “Oh, it’s got nothing to do with food. How can that have any bearing on your health?” That’s just ridiculous.

Guy Lawrence: It’s crazy, isn’t it? It’s crazy. And, sadly, pain is the biggest motivator. You know? We need to be in a lot of pain before we need to change and then start making decisions and actually thoroughly looking into these topics and going, “OK, let’s apply it.” And actually apply it.

Because we can tell ourselves all sorts of things and think we’ve getting away with it.

Stuart Cooke: So, do you think that the paleo diet would be everyone?

Darryl Edwards: Um. You’ve asked a good question.

Stuart Cooke: It’s a loaded question.

Darryl Edwards: Yes. I mean, yes in the sense that I believe human beings are omnivorous. There were no hunter-gatherer populations that are just carnivorous or just herbivores. We are omnivores. We should have animal protein and vegetable matter and plant matter in our diets. And on that basis, it of course is suitable for all human beings.

Of course, ethics, morals, cultural decisions can also come into play. And that may be a barrier as to whether you can partake, happily, with the paleo diet. You know, if I was French, for example, and bread is an extremely important part of my lifestyle, it may be very difficult for me to avoid grains and take on board paleo unless I’ve got some health issues that came about by me consuming grains. Do you know what I mean?

So, I think yes, it’s suitable for all. But it comes down to the individual whether XXyou type it painfully enough? 0:13:49.000XX for you to want to make the transition or whether you believe that the foods that you consume will lead to a healthier and more productive life; lifestyle.

Stuart Cooke: And I think it’s about finding your sweet spot, too, because we’re all so very, very different whether it be from a genetic level or almost an ancestral level. It finding out what works for us. It might be higher fat for some. It might be higher carbohydrate for others. But I think we can all benefit from pulling toxins and processed chemicals out of our diet, for sure.

Darryl Edwards: Yeah, for sure. That’s a good point. Again, you know, as we’ve been doing this quite a while, I’m always toying with the idea of this kind of this one-size-fits-all or should it be down the stage of being so individualize. And so an individual description in terms of our nutritional macronutrient profile and what we should be consuming.

And I’m not veering most towards that actually I believe if we’re healthy, XXat once I should feel it all?? 0:15:00.000XX. And the reason I believe that is because if you do go to a hunter-gatherer population, they were eating foods based on their environments. They weren’t choosing foods based on, “Oh, well, we’re a hunter-gatherer of this persuasion, so we’re gonna predominantly have fats.” That wasn’t…

Guy Lawrence: “That wasn’t an option, was it?”

Darryl Edwards: Yeah. It was based on their environments. And, again, I can’t imagine people saying, within that community, that small community, “Hey, you know what? I don’t really fancy eating food. I want to have a lower food consumption because I don’t feel too good on food.” I’m pretty certain most people had exactly the same template in terms of their food consumption, based on what was available in their environments.

I think, for us in the present day, most of us are suffering from all sorts of ailments, you know, whether it’s epigenetically, whether it’s environmental, that we probably do have to have a personalized prescription. But I think that’s more to do with the travails of one society rather than the fact that we need an individual prescription. That’s just my take.

Stuart Cooke: Oh, absolutely. And I think our interpretation of our environment is a little skewed as well, because our environment now has a Pizza Hut on every corner and a fast food take-away next door to that, and a supermarket right next door. So, we kind of; it’s a struggle now to actually connect with these beautiful whole foods unless we go out of our way to farmers markets and the like.

Darryl Edwards: That’s a very good point. I mean, yeah, we don’t have to hunt for our food anymore, and hunting would be going to a farmers market or going to a local supermarket or going to the fridge.

Stuart Cooke: Hunting for the cheapest pizza.

Guy Lawrence: So, for anyone listening to this, Darryl, that would be, maybe, wanting to create change with their nutrition and diet, they look at it and go, like, it’s so overwhelming. We have all these emotional attachments to changing these foods and everything else.

What would you say would be; how would you prescribe it? Where would you say to start, for someone to just go… Do they go cold turkey? Do they do it softly, softly? You know?

Darryl Edwards: Um, yeah. That’s a really good question. For myself, I went; I kind of selected what I knew wouldn’t be a heartache for me in terms of going cold turkey. So, for example, dairy was easy to do. Literary, day zero, no dairy. That’s it.

Oats, for example, never: “Boom.” It was easy for me to select certain food types and go, “Right, you know what? I’m not going to have any issues with avoiding those.”

Others that were a little more troublesome, you know, I had to just phase them out over time. And that’s what worked for me. So I think it depends on your personality. It depends on your views about willpower. It’s also deciding what’s going to be a long-term decision for you.

So, I think people can, in the short term, be really strict and go cold turkey and then they’ll just break down and backslide, maybe even worse than their original starting point in terms of their dietary choices.
So, I think it’s really worthwhile thinking about, well, why am I doing this? You know, is it because of health? Is it because I want to look good? Is it because I just want to drop a dress size? What’s the reasoning behind this?

And if that reason is fairly short-term, “I want to lose five kilos in six months,” then you might only decide to follow that lifestyle change for six months, because you’ve achieved your objective. You’ve achieved your goal. And then you’re likely to kind of bounce back.

Whereas, myself, I had to make sure I was underpinning my lifestyle. The reason for my lifestyle change is underpinned by health. And so I’m always looking at, not just today, not just in a year’s time, but literally decades ahead is part of my vision.

And so it means I’m not perfect in my decisions but at least the majority of the times it’s always in the back of my mind. Do I want to take the left path to destruction and poor health? Or will I veer much more to the right and go, hey, more or less I’m making the best decisions that I can, and I feel really happy about making those choices. So, I don’t feel as if I’m punishing myself.

And I think that’s what, yeah, I think it’s: Don’t punish yourself and try to make a long-term decision.

Stuart Cooke: I think it allows us to reconnect ourselves with food as well, because historically, with our processed and packaged food, it’s a quick, you know, slap it in the microwave, boil in the bag, open a packet, put it on the plate.

Whereas now, you know, we’re careful about the fruits and vegetables and meats that we can prepare. We understand taste. And when you strip, when you move away from your processed packaged foods, then you can start exploring things like herbs and spices as well to bring those flavors together. So, it’s about getting back in the kitchen and understanding that cooking is actually part of our day, where as ordinarily it might just be: Slap it in the microwave, put the TV on, and just eat.

Stuart Cooke: I kind of like that side of it. And also, from a parent’s perspective, it’s great as well, because your kids see you doing that and we don’t; that’s such a vital aspect of our upbringing, which is cooking and preparation of food.

Darryl Edwards: That’s also a very good point. I mean, yeah, a lot of what I remember I can reference as a child, and the lessons that I was taught by my parents in terms of food preparation and selecting food. And it’s amazing what comes flooding back, know that I’m actually spending more time thinking about food preparation. But I spent, you know, a good 10, 15 years, literally, what can I source as cheaply as I can, as conveniently as I can, and if I do have to carry it home, it literally is popping it in the microwave, dishing it onto the plate.
Guy Lawrence: I think, as well, when you’re doing that, you have no idea what’s going in there. No idea at all, you know?

Darryl Edwards: You simply don’t care. You don’t care. As long as you kind of fill that need of, “I need to eat food,” I mean, yeah, I know food is an inconvenience most of the time. It’s like, “Oh, I have to eat because I’m hungry.” It’s like, “Why am I hungry? Why can’t I just survive without food?”

Now, of course, I recognize that it’s extremely important and it’s about nutrition and not just enjoyment. It actually feeds us in many, many ways.

Stuart Cooke: It’s fueling our body.

So, just to put that into perspective, given the fact that it’s quite late where you are, can you tell us what you have eaten today, from breakfast to now?

Darryl Edwards: Yeah. So, breakfast I had some eggs, like fried eggs, kind of scrambled. I had some sardines and some veg. And a couple of mandarins as a kind of dessert, for breakfast. I just had some nuts at lunch. It was very, very light. This evening I had some fish and some veg.

Guy Lawrence: Easy. So, it doesn’t have to be wild and wacky. You know, you eat whole foods, real foods, there’s no craziness going on.

Darryl Edwards: Yeah, no, exactly. It’s fairly straight-forward. So, I think there are times where I don’t have time to think about food preparations. It’s just a quick marinade, and it’s popped in the oven, job done. Throw some oil over, coconut oil, job done.

Other times you want to experiment a bit, you want to kind of go, “Hey let me tweak this recipe,” and, you know, slow-cook it. But it allows; you can work it into your lifestyle where, I don’t have much time but I’d still rather do that than pop to the KFC, which is next door.

Stuart Cooke: Especially with the likes of the slow cooker, which has become our best friend now. Just, you know, whack everything in in the morning and in the evening you’ve got the most amazing meal that you can then reheat for breakfast. It’s easy.

Darryl Edwards: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, breakfast is just another meal, at the end of the day. So, yeah.

Guy Lawrence: I’ve got to ask one question, Stu, I’ve got to ask you: What have you had for breakfast this morning? Because this guy is legendary with his breakfasts.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. OK. So, what have I had for breakfast? So, last night I made up a chili. So, just with a grass-fed mince and just mushrooms, veggies, I probably put a bit of paprika in there; a little bit of curry powder. A few spices. And I put a sweet potato in the oven. And then mashed up an avocado; did all of that.

Now, I ate half of it last night and I reheated the other half this morning so the looks on the girls were: “Oh, Dad, your breakfast is so smelly.” And I said, “Well, forget it. It’s so tasty.” So, I’ve had chili this morning.

But ordinarily, my breakfasts are quite similar to yours, Darryl, because I’ve got the biggest sardine fetish in the world. I can’t help myself. I often slip a few cans in when I’m kind of traveling around as well, just to make sure I get my fix.

Darryl Edwards: That’s a good idea, actually. I mean, it’s such good value for money. And I’m quite appreciative of the fact that people, they hate; it’s a love-hate relationship with sardines and I’m quite happy that a lot of people hate sardines because it keeps the price down.

Stuart Cooke: It does.

Darryl Edwards: So, a lot of the foods that we really enjoy that are paleo are becoming quite pricey, like coconut oil. Years ago, it was pretty cheap; almost a throwaway. It’s pretty pricey now. Avocados, same sort of deal. So, yeah, I’m…

Stuart Cooke: Let’s keep the sardines to kind of an underground Fight Club secret. Just don’t tell anybody.

Darryl Edwards: Don’t talk about it. Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: I might rush out this morning and buy up a small pallet full of them, because they’ve got a good shelf life.

So, I’ve got a bit of a left-field question. And, so, talking about your primal beliefs, how do they fit in outside of just food and exercise? And when I say that, I’m thinking about, kind of, you know, modern-day dude, he’s got a mobile phone stuck to his ear 24-7, gets up in the morning, has a shower, he’s got his shampoo, conditioner, soap, deodorant, aftershave, chemical toxins galore. What do you do to address the environmental side of things, if anything?

Darryl Edwards: Yeah, so, well, starting with the mobile phone. I try and use hands-free or headphones. So, it’s been years since I’ve had it pressed to my ear. I try to avoid that as much as I can. In terms of, like, cosmetics and toiletries, so now everything that I use is, you know, no paraffins, no sodium laureth sulfate.

I’m pretty strict and a tight regimen about exactly what I’m going to be using. So, I think that the food and movement was a great gateway to start questioning other aspects of our lifestyle. It’s like: What’s the point in me trying to avoid toxins that I’m consuming, but yet I’m splashing all sorts of rubbish on my skin and in shampoo, toothpaste, and the like.

So, it doesn’t take long to start not only looking at the labels on the back of food products but also on the labels on the back of toiletries and go, “What does that mean? What’s that?” You know. XX??? paraffin?? 0:28:13.000XX. What’s that? What’s all that about?”

So, it doesn’t take long to educate yourself and go, “Ah! It’s harmful. Ah! That’s a carcinogenic. Oh my goodness, that’s, you know, petro-based, petroleum-based product.” I don’t want that. Don’t want to be using that.

So, I think, another thing, we do live in the 21st century. We can only mitigate the risks as best as possible without living out on the sticks. I mean, wherever you live in the world you’re tainted by some form of toxin. You know, a toxic environment wherever you are, unfortunately. So, you can only do the best that you can.

And so, I no longer use plastics in the kitchen. So, I no longer use any kind of harsh chemicals in terms of cleaning products as well as what I use on my skin. And I think you just start questioning every single aspect of your life. I can’t avoid using my mobile phone, but…

Stuart Cooke: You do the best you can.

Darryl Edwards: Do the best you can. Yeah. Which is, I think, it’s far better than just going, “Oh, there’s nothing I can do about this. I’ll just…”

Stuart Cooke: No, that’s right. I always like to think about the nicotine patches that you can purchase and you pop on your skin. And people don’t understand that you put one of those patches on your arm and within 10 minutes, the nicotine is in your blood system. Well, that’s the same vessel for transporting whatever it is in your moisturizer or your soap or shampoo, goes; it’s the same thing.

And because we just think, “Well, that’s just soap,” or, “That’s just conditioner,” we just don’t think along those lines. So, yeah, definitely great just to be aware of it and do the best we can, I think.

Darryl Edwards: Yeah. And it’s amazing you say that, because we’re watching adverts all the time, anti-aging products telling us about the fact that these chemicals are absorbed into the skin and affects the XXchemical?? 0:30:23.000XX structure of the skin and affects the follicles in the hair, and of course, XXsomebody’s??XX going to say it’s a pseudoscience and doesn’t really work. But at the end of the day, you know, the largest organ on our body, i.e. the skin, does absorb some of these nutrients.

Stuart Cooke: It’s just nuts, isn’t it?

Darryl Edwards: Yeah, exactly. So, it’s kind of common sense but as you said, we kind of go, “Eh. Meh. It’s just on the surface. It’s all external. It’s the surface of the skin. It’s kind of impervious. It doesn’t really matter.” Actually, yes it does.

So, if somebody suffers from a lot of skin issues for many, many years and has seen their dermatologist and been told there is nothing you can do, dietary or externally, that’s going to make any difference, apart from taking these topical creams, you know. The steroid creams will work. “But nothing else you can do is gonna make any difference.” And actually, there are things we can do to make a difference.” You know?

Stuart Cooke: Perhaps we could work together and come up with a skin care range based upon sardines.

Guy Lawrence: That would be such a winner.

Stuart Cooke: It would be. You can be the guinea pig, Guy.

Darryl Edwards: I think it would be just be XXyou and I purchasing that 0:31:39.000XX. I don’t think anyone else would but into that.

Guy Lawrence: I just want to add, as well, because you guys are raving about sardines, I buy cans of them and they sit on my shelf for weeks and I have to build up the courage to eat them. I just can’t swallow them. I’ll put about 6,000 spices in it, but…

Darryl Edwards: It needs spices. But, I’ll tell you want, again, as a kid, it was kind of; it’s a “poor man’s food.” And so you just XXget used to its 0:32:09.000XX taste and, fortunately, I had a lot of fish as a youngster, so that fishy smell doesn’t; yeah, whatever.

Stuart Cooke: Absolutely.

Darryl Edwards: It’s a great source of calcium as well.

Stuart Cooke: Oh, I love it. Bones and all. I used to take them out, but not anymore. I love it.

Guy Lawrence: So, I was thinking it would be great to just get into the movement side of things now. Because we see that you’re doing some unconventional things in the way of diet and fitness. And we saw a quote on your website the other day that you help people who hate exercise get fit and eat that way. So, I wondered if you could just elaborate on what actually it is that you do.

Darryl Edwards: Yeah, so, Primal Play is my movement methodology. And part of that is its designed for people who hate to exercise. And I think quite a lot of us, even when we kid ourselves otherwise, we do hate to exercise, because it’s a chore, it’s kind of punishing/grueling, and we do it because we recognize it’s gonna be beneficial for us. Because we either want to get fitter or we want to, again, look good-natured or whatever it is.

So, we put ourselves through the paces but the experience itself may not be that pleasurable.

And so Primal Play is really getting people to focus on what is enjoyable about movement. The essence of movements. And most conventional exercise doesn’t necessarily address that, in my opinion.

Guy Lawrence: Do you think it would be fair to say, because, like, I come from a background as a fitness trainer as well, when you exercise you’re always fixated on the end goal. So, let’s say I’m going to go for a run, 10Ks, and I’m fixated on my time and everything else. And then I’m done, you know. Psychologically I can relax and watch TV or whatever. You know? And from what you’re sort of promoting is that you can be; everything’s about just being present. Being in the moment and enjoying the process.

Darryl Edwards: Yes. Yep. That’s exactly right. I mean, being mindful and thinking about the process rather than the goal; the end result. And making sure you’re getting instant gratification when it comes to movement.

So, most people will be thinking about the end result. You know: the goal. “At the end of my 10K run, everything’s going to be great. I’m going to get the endorphin rush, it’s going to be amazing, and I can take off and have a run completed.”

But starting that 10K? Pfft. You know, it’s very rare, thinking about when I used to do a lot of running, it was rare that I would enjoy that first step of the run. Very rare. You know? Putting that playlist on my iPod of 2,000 songs and I’d still be bored out of my skull. You know? Thinking: What song have I got on my iPod that’s actually gonna keep me going for the next 25 minutes, or whatever.

So, yeah, for some people who are really motivated to exercise, it doesn’t matter. They’re not distracted. They can just get stuff done. But most of us I don’t think are that self-disciplined. I think we force ourselves into this culture of exercise and fitness because we know it’s so beneficial.

Guy Lawrence: Definitely. Definitely. Yeah.

I always remember the amount of miserable faces that would walk into the gymnasium: “Oh, my God, I’ve got to do this for an hour.”

Stuart Cooke: That’s because you were training there, Guy.

Guy Lawrence: I would soon put a smile on their face; don’t you worry about it.

It makes me think of surfing, as well, because myself and Stu have taken up surfing because I live just outside Maroubra Beach. And when I’m in there, it’s all about the moment. Like, I never think, “When is this gonna end?” I’m just enjoying the process of it all and the elements around me. And it doesn’t feel like a chore.

And sometimes I go out and go, “God. I’m knackered. That was really hard work.” But at the time I didn’t have to think about it in any sense, and I’d have a smile on my face.

Darryl Edwards: In that compression of time, it’s really important.

Stuart Cooke: What would one of your fitness sessions look like? What do you get into?

Darryl Edwards: It’s very difficult to describe, really, but I sort of can just visualize; if you can think about going back to being a kid and playing at any game that you played as a kid, which was about including everyone who was available to play. Yeah?
So, there was no kind of like, “Oh, you’re not good enough to play this game. You don’t have the right skill level. You’re not the right age. You’re not the right sex.” Whatever. So, being very inclusive. Again, ensuring that there’s maximum enjoyment right from the off.

And usually ensuring that there’s some sort of cooperation kind of teamwork is involved. And so that can be everything from a modified version of tag. Or, I came at this with about three or four different variants of tag when I went to Australia. “Tips” is one. And I was, like, “What the heck is that: tips?”

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, exactly.

Darryl Edwards: So I was like, yeah, we’re going to play tag, and they were like, “What’s tag?”

Stuart Cooke: We used to call it “it” at school.

Darryl Edwards: Yeah, “it” as well. Yeah. So, I play like a modified version of tag, which is more suitable for adults and doesn’t involved running around like a maniac for hours on end.

But it’s kind of taking that playful, kind of play-based activity but making sure there is some training and conditioning effect from it. So, not just the completely aimless, where it’s like, “Oh, what’s the point of doing this?” But actually, I want to play, but I still want to get stronger. I still want to get fitter. I still want to build up my endurance and stamina. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

So, I’ll still have those fitness goals, but I want to make sure that it’s all wrapped around this kind of veneer of play.

Stuart Cooke: So, you’re playing and your participants have to wear a 10kg weights vest. Is that correct?

Darryl Edwards: Yeah. You know, I’m going to add that to the repertoire next.

I suppose people can see, can check out my YouTube channel to see, get an idea of what my Primal Play session looks like. Or, even better, try and participate in one of my workshops.

But, yeah, for people who take part are in two categories. There are those who hate exercise, who have been sedentary, like couch potatoes, for 10 years, who go, “You know? I want to; show me what I can do to enjoy exercise again.” And I also get a second category of individuals who are, like, “I’m really fit. There’s nothing you can do with play that’s gonna challenge me.”

Stuart Cooke: That’s a dangerous question.

Darryl Edwards: I say, “OK. Let’s see what we can do.”

So, it’s great to pit those complete, diametrically opposed individuals and go with someone who’s an elite athlete and someone who’s a couch potato and get them both to play this game, but feel as if you’re both working out. You know what I mean? You both feel as if you’re working at maximal output, but you’re doing it together. Well, then you’re thinking, “Oh, my gosh. You’re just so weak and pathetic. What’s the point in me doing this with you?” Or, “Oh, my goodness. They’re so big and strong and intimidating. There’s no way we’re going to be able to work out or play out together.”

So, yeah, it’s a very interesting concept. It’s taken me awhile to develop this. And the great thing about it is people tend to have a great time and oftentimes go, “Oh, my goodness. I didn’t realize… Why am I sore?”

Guy Lawrence: I think you mentioned the word “community” as well, at the beginning, and I think that’s so important as well. And when it comes to exercise, if you are doing this in a fun group environment, it really brings out the best of you. And you’re sharing an experience with other people, as opposed to just; I keep using running as an analogy, but just listening to an iPod, running on your own, it’s such a different thing. You know? And you can have laughter and fun and it will motivate you to go back and do it again.

Stuart Cooke: I think it’s really good to mix it up as well. Because I keep myself reasonably fit and healthy, but, you know, after an afternoon’s play with the kids, you know, the next day I have got all of these sore muscles all over the place where I never thought I had muscles. And I’m thinking, “What on earth did I do?” And I thought, crikey, of course, I’m crawling along on the grass like a lunatic, and enjoying it, having fun, laughing, and it must be beneficial too.

Darryl Edwards: Yeah. Of course. Yeah. That social aspect. And I think social isolation is, again, pretty much part of the modern era. And we’re quite happy; a lot of us are happy to be on our own, be completely isolated, and keeping fit is also part of that. “I just want to be in the zone on my own, nobody talking to me.” And even if you go into a group class, you know? I’ve been to lots of group classes at the gym, and it’s so much you’re siloed, you’re almost cloned with 20 other people doing your own thing and you might have a chat at the end: “Wasn’t that a great class, guys?” “Yeah!” And that’s the end of it of.

Guy Lawrence: That’s the only direction you go.

So, from a motivational perspective, right, so you’ve got the unmotivated person and they’ve got sedentary habits, where should they start? What would you recommend? Like, even from a mindset perspective, you know? To just get them over the edge, get them going?

Darryl Edwards: I suppose it’s trying to get them to integrate movement into their normal day. So, I think for somebody like that, to say to them, “Hey. You just need to just do 20 minutes a day. Just do half an hour three times a week.” That’s gonna seem like a mountain that’s impossible to climb, for them. But if you present it in the sense that, hey, you know what? You can just think of it as an interesting way to get XXout of the chair, for a start? 0:43:01.000XX. That’s one thing you can do. You know. You can start thinking of the stairs as your gym equipment. Every time you see the stairs, and you see a lift, you can go, “You know what? I’m gonna take the stairs because that’s me getting my workout; me actually doing some work.”
So, I think just presenting interesting opportunistic ways for them to get more movement into their day and hopefully start creating a bit of an appetite for that.

And for someone who’s naturally, who’s struggled to maintain the habits; form a habit of exercise, I would join a gym in January, and you’d be lucky if you’d see me there from February on. It just wouldn’t happen. I may be there in June to get ready for the beach in the summer, for holiday. But I’d be literally like, “Yeah, yeah, I’m all keen, ready to go, but I couldn’t maintain that habit. And I think part of that was because you’re going from zero to wannabe hero in a short space of time. You get sore, you achieve a lot in what’s actually a short space of time, but it’s kind of painful. It’s uncomfortable. It gets boring and routine. So you’ve got to find a way of making sure it just becomes the norm. It’s not a hobby anymore. It’s just part and parcel to integrate into your day.

And I’m finding I’m spending more time moving. If I go for a walk now, if I’m waiting for the bus, there are times when I will race the bus. I’ll purposefully be one step away from where I need to be, because I want to sprint for that bus. Or I’ll XXsit in the bus shelter and I can’t do proper pull-ups here?? 0:44:47.000XX I’ll walk around the wall because I want to text my balance out. The mindset that I have now has developed to the point where I don’t need a gym anymore, necessarily. Because the world is my gymnasium.

And that’s what I try to foster with my clients is that, yeah, wherever you’re at, whether it’s a hotel room, your living space, you’re in the outdoors, your gym, you’ve got to view it in a different way. And then you’re gonna start craving opportunities for yourself and hopefully enjoy those opportunities and then you can’t wait. And you almost itching for that next movement experience. I think that’s the way to go.

Stuart Cooke: That’s perfect. It is almost; it’s almost childlike in the thinking, because when I think of children out on the street, they very rarely sit and stand in one place at one time. If there’s a wall, they’ll be on the wall. If there’s a tree, they’ll be hanging off the tree, doing stuff. They never stop. And it’s kind of getting back to that way of thinking, opening up, letting go, having fun, and moving as well.

Darryl Edwards: That’s a great point. You know the comedian Lee Evans? The English comedian? So, I saw a show that he was on; a talk show that he was on. And he was like really animated and he was kind of climbing over the sofa and was being his, kind of, crazy self. And he was being asked about his age. And I think he’s just 50 or in his 50s. And he looks; you could take off 10, 15 years easily. He looks absolutely fantastic.

And there was a moment during this interview where he became very adult-like. He stopped playing around and started to be really serious. And immediately, those of us watching were like, “He looks his age now.” Seriously. It was like, “He looks 50 now.”

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. That’s nuts, isn’t it?

Darryl Edwards: What he was like before, he could have been 30, 35 easily. And I think that hits the nail on the head. That childlike, almost innocence. That kind of like nervous energy that kids have, once you lose that. Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: That’s right. Use it or lose it, isn’t it? That’s what they say.

Guy Lawrence: Definitely. So, what recovery kind of strategies do you do, Darryl? Do you think about it much or…

Darryl Edwards: It’s a bit like when you start looking at diet and you start, say, looking at paleo and you might start kind of weighing your food, measuring your food, thinking about, “Oh, I need to XXwork out with these shows here? 0:47:49.000XX and then you start thinking about: What times of day do I need to eat for optimal X, Y, and Zed. And then go, “Actually, no. I’ll just eat when I’m hungry. I’ll make sure what is on the plate is a decent portion. And I’m gonna be satisfied with…” You kind of just get a feel for what your body needs.

I think it’s the exact same with movements. You know, some days I go harder than others. Sometimes I play with others. And I just know what type of recovery I need for me to either continue with the same intensity or have to drop it down a bit. So, I think, again, being kind of childlike, I don’t remember being a kid, my mates coming around and saying, “Hey, Darryl, do you want to come out and play today?” And I’d go, “No. No chance, mate. I feel a bit sore from playing tag all day.”

Guy Lawrence: “I’m in recovery mode.”

Darryl Edwards: I do a bit of stretching and I’ll be fine.

Guy Lawrence: It comes back to listening to your body, right? And just being in tune. And I think the more you kind of take out the processed foods and get a good night’s sleep.

Stuart Cooke: But that’s it. You’ve touched on nutrition prior to that. But that is probably one of the biggest elements of your recovery. You have pulled out all of the inflammatory foods out of your diet and you’ve replaced them with these beautiful whole foods. They’re nutritious and healing. And that’s probably one of the best things you could do.”

Darryl Edwards: For sure. I think that’s a really good point. And also, I think if you have, in terms of movement, traditionally, I would have a one-dimensional or two-dimensional approach to fitness. You know, one-dimensional being I’m quite good at endurance stuff, so that’s what I’m gonna focus on. I’m quite good at cardio stuff. That’s what I’m gonna focus on. But need to get a bit of strength in there. So, ah, I see another dimension. I’ve covered two dimensions. But now I recognize that if I have a really wide repertoire of movement, I’m less likely to be injured. I’m less likely to have repetitive stress and strain. So, I’m less likely to be sore, actually. You know?

It sort of the point where I’m just kind of completely beaten up. And so if I do get sore, it’s sore to the point where I’m still not deterred from continuing to move. And I think that’s also part of listening to yourself. Actually, you know what. I’m sure, again, my ancient ancestors would be going for a heavy-duty hunt one day. Did they come back the following day when the didn’t capture anything and go, “Hey, you know what, today we’re just gonna stay; we’re not gonna go for a hunt because I’m sore and we didn’t even get any food yesterday.” Do you know what I mean? It was like, no, what do you mean “sore”? Muscle soreness? What’s that about?

Even that I think is definitely the fitness industry telling us that we should avoid movement if we’re feeling a bit sore. Because I don’t remember my father telling me when I was young that he was really sore from all the heavy lifting he had to do when he went to work. Do you know what I mean? He was tired. He had a hard day. But he wasn’t talking about XX???and saying I need to get a ??? 0:51:08.000XX.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, I get that completely.

Darryl Edwards: I push it because I’m too knackered or…

You just had to get stuff done. You just had to get stuff done. And I think that’s, as well as listening to ourselves, also knowing a safe limit to ensure that we’re still challenging ourselves because the day we can’t challenge ourselves, you know…”

Guy Lawrence: And most people, sadly, don’t move enough. The sit in front of a computer all day. They’re hunched over. Their posture’s just doing one thing. And even if they just moved, psychologically as well. You know, it’s massive. They’d get into it.

I’m checking the time. We’re starting to run out of time. So, we always ask a question on the podcast each week, and it’s: What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given? It’s such a small question.

Darryl Edwards: I had a book autographed by Mark Twight, who owns; the founder of Gym Jones, a fantastic gym facility in the U.S. He trained the guys in 300. And I was fortunate enough to spend some time in his facility when I started kind of exploring fitness and looking at different movement. But he basically wrote in my book, which he signed to me, and he said, basically, to kind of find your path. Find your way. Get off the path. And then, you know, get off it. Kind of deviate from that quite to an extreme level. And then come back to the path.

And that resonated with me then and it still resonates with me now, to the point where I think even as convinced as I may be about a particular path, whether it’s nutrition, movement, lifestyle, never stop questioning. Because I think you may be called back to that. But at least you’re completely aware of everything in the periphery. So, that’s probably the best advice I’ve received in recent memory. And it’s what I definitely will follow.

Guy Lawrence: That’s fantastic. Some of this brings to mind, I remember thinking the more you know, the more you actually don’t know.

Darryl Edwards: Yes.

Guy Lawrence: So, remaining open to it.

Darryl Edwards: Yeah, that’s a really good point, and I think simplicity now, I mean definitely for myself, I’ve initially amassed so much knowledge and intellect, I believe, is the way for me to improve my lifestyle. You know? “If I can have a Ph.D in nutrition and biochemistry, and I can be a chef, and I can become an exercise scientist, and I can…” You know what I mean? If I can master all of these different disciplines, then I’ll be healthy. And the reality is, if I could actually just implement some of the bare-bone basics, that’s good enough. Do you know what I mean? You don’t need to know that much, really.
Guy Lawrence: It doesn’t have to be complicated, does it?

Darryl Edwards: It doesn’t have to be complicated, no. You just have to basically implement it. And so now I’m actually spending less time researching unnecessarily, and thinking, hey, I just need to start doing a lot of this stuff that I already know.

Guy Lawrence: Less thinking, more doing. Yeah.

Darryl Edwards: Yeah. Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: Have you got any projects coming up in the future? What’s next for you, Darryl?

Darryl Edwards: Yeah, I’ve got a few projects on the go. So, the next big project is releasing PrimalPlay.com. So, I’m working on that at the moment. As I said, I’ve kind of worked on this movement methodology for some time, and kind of gaining a lot of attention in that area. So, I’m going to have a dedicated website with downloadable videos, a kind of community base of people who want to play more and recognize it’s part of a lifestyle rather than just the physical aspects. But it kind of permeates through every single part of your lifestyle.

Just learning how to kind of enjoy life, actually. And I’m working on my second book, which is going to be based on Primal Play. So, that’s going to be published by Primal Blueprint Publishing, so Mark Sisson’s publishing house.

And a pet project, a little side project I’m working on, is related to travel hacking. I’m not sure if you know much about this, but it’s basically a way of getting very cheap or completely free travel legally using certain strategies. So, that’s another website I’m going to be launching. Because I’m traveling quite a bit. I’m definitely a master now at getting upgrades and all sorts of stuff. So I’m kind of packaging it up and creating a launch space for that.

Guy Lawrence: Brilliant.

And then you can combine them all together: travel cheaply, play everywhere, and eat this paleo lifestyle while you’re doing it. And have fun along the way.

Stuart Cooke: Fantastic.

Guy Lawrence: That’s awesome, mate. That’s awesome. So, for anyone listening to this, where do they go if they want to get in touch with you; find out more about you, Darryl? Where is the best place to go right now?

Darryl Edwards: The best place is on my blog at TheFitnessExplorer.com. PrimalPlay.com will be available shortly. And just get in touch with me on social media. So, @fitnessexplorer on Twitter, Facebook.com/fitnessexplorer, and YouTube.com/fitnessexplorer, so you can see all my videos and just get a feel for what I’m doing.

And, of course, you can buy my book, Paleo Fitness, which is available in all good bookstores.

Guy Lawrence: Awesome. We’ll link out to everything so people who come to our blog and all the rest of it can check you out, Darryl.

That was awesome. Thank you so much for joining us on the show.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. Thank you. I’ve had a lot of fun today.

Darryl Edwards: Thank you very much, guys. I’ve really enjoyed it. It’s been a real pleasure. It’s also like a smorgasbord of accents as well, which is quite cool.

Stuart Cooke: It is. That’s right. We’ll confuse the listeners. Maybe we’ll run a competition to spot the accent.

Darryl Edwards: We’re going to have some captions there.

Guy Lawrence: Google Translate.

Stuart Cooke: Perfect.

Guy Lawrence: Awesome.

Thanks so much, Darryl.

Stuart Cooke: Thank you, buddy.

Darryl Edwards: Cheers, guys.

 

How Meditation Cured My Wolf of Wall Street Lifestyle

Tom Cronin

 

The above video is 3 minutes long.

Imagine living the lifestyle of Jordan Belfort of the Wolf of Wall Street… it would be no surprise if you didn’t last to long! That’s how our special guest for the show this week, Tom Cronin once lived. He openly shares with us how this lifestyle led to depression, anxiety and ill health whilst being told he can’t be cured and would need anti-depressants. Tom searched for other means and found meditation, and he hasn’t looked back since.

Tom Cronin Full Interview

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Tom Cronin is the founder of the Stillness Project. He has been teaching meditation for many years now and has inspired thousands of people all over the world as a teacher, author and keynote speaker to unlock peoples stillness and calm with meditation.

He has been featured on national TV in Australia, The Sydney Morning Herald, Huffington Post and Vogue magazine to name a few.

downloaditunesIn this episode we talk about:-

  • Yes, people out there live like Jordan Belfort did!
  • The one style of mediation that Tom now uses for effectiveness
  • What meditation is and where it originated
  • How to quieten a really busy mind
  • Why stress can be so damaging and how to overcome it
  • How to start a daily meditation practice when it feels all too hard
  • And much much more…

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Want to know more about Tom Cronin?

Enjoy the interview or got any questions for Tom or us? We’d love to hear them in the comments below… Guy

Transcription

Guy

Hey, this Guy of 180 Nutrition and welcome to the Health Sessions. You know, we cover a lot of subjects on our podcast, obviously, regarding health and most of it revolves around nutrition and a little bit about exercise. But one thing we’ve been keen to delve into as well is, obviously, the power of the mind and stress and how that can affect the body as well.
And so we’re very excited to have Tom Cronin on the show today talking about meditation, something that I grapple with a lot and it doesn’t come easy to me. So, we are very excited to have Tom on.

Now, Tom has been teaching meditation for many years. He’s inspired literally thousands and thousands of people all over the world as a meditational teacher and author and a keynote speaker. And he’s all about unlocking people’s stillness and calmness with meditation. He’s a fantastic guy, too.

He’s featured on the national TV for Australia, Sydney Morning Herald, Huffington Post, and Vogue magazine as well, to name a few.

Tom has an amazing story, too. He was a bonds trader in his early 20s and earning a massive amount of money and he said he’d compared his life very similar to the Wolf of Wall Street. So, you can only imagine he wasn’t going to last too long living that lifestyle. And, yes, he burnt out and then turned to meditation and has been teaching that for over 10 years.

So, I’m sure you’re going to get a massive amount out of this today, just as much as myself and Stu did.

If you are listening to this through iTunes, please leave a review. It takes two minutes to do. We know we’re reaching a lot of people out there, and, yeah, any feedback, fantastic. And the iTunes reviews help us get found easier and help us continue to get this good word out there of all the work we do. And, of course, come over to our website, 180Nutrition.com.au. We’ve got heaps of free stuff on there, too, and massive more amount of resources to help you get fitter and healthier every day. So, anyway, let’s go over to Tom, and enjoy the show. Awesome. Let’s get into it, hey?

Tom

Yeah, let’s do it!
Guy

So, I’m Guy Lawrence. I’m joined by Stuart Cooke, as always. Hey, Stewie.

Stuart

Hi.

Guy

And our awesome guest today is Mr. Tom Cronin. Tom, welcome.

Tom

Hey, everyone. Great to be here.

Guy

Fantastic. I’m very excited about this topic today. It absolutely fascinates me. But before we dig into the world of meditation, because I know Stewie’s keen on this one, too, can you share us your journey to what led you to being heavily involved in medication? Because it’s an awesome, inspiring story, I think.

Tom

Yeah. People seem to like this story. You know, the story started a long time ago, actually, when I was in finance. I started out as a broker when I was 19 years old and I just walked in off the street, basically, was looking for a job before I went to uni and didn’t really expect to be in finance at all.

I was gonna be a journalist, the Macquarie Uni, I had a few months to fill in before I went off to do my degree. And, you know, this was back in the late ’80s and the finance industry was booming. I was the old Gordon Gekko Wolf of Wall Street type. You know, you hear of Bonfire of the Vanities and Masters of the Universe and they were really expanding the bond market. And I took a job as a trainee.

It was crazy times, you know? I was on really big salaries really quickly. They gave us corporate expense accounts where we just basically were told, “Take clients out.” Which, our clients were the bankers. The traders. And our job was to basically entertain them and inspire them to do business with you. And our job was to XXclear their risk 0:03:41.000XX in the day and there was like a lot of turnover, you know, multiple millions and billions of dollars worth of bonds.

And I was young, you know, and we were just like young kids off the block doing crazy stuff. So, if anyone’s seen Wolf of Wall Street, the movie, it was literally like that. It was really, seriously like that. He started in 1987, the same year as me. He was 22. I was 19. We both started in 1987, and it was crazy times. We were doing crazy things.

And what happened with me successively over the years was I went further down that path of doing crazy stuff and getting way off track. And that let to symptoms.

Any time you start doing things that aren’t really aligned with natural law or aligned with harmony and peace, then you’re gonna get symptoms like the little red light on the dashboard. And I started getting insomnia and anxiety and then, you know, I kept doing the same thing over and over again. Eventually it really exacerbated into these full-blown panic attacks and depression.

And, again, I still didn’t stop. I was still doing the same thing. You know: doing some crazy stuff. I don’t want to go into too much detail. But, you know, let’s just say there was very little sleep, lots of late nights, and really high-energy work. And then that manifested further because, you know, the symptoms will just exacerbate if you don’t change tack.

And I kept doing the same thing and eventually I got agoraphobia. So, I couldn’t leave the house. I was just like ridiculous fear and panic and depression and I was a basket case.
I managed to get out of the house and down to the doctor’s, one day where I was having, like, a full-blown meltdown, and the doctor said, “Look. This is what’s happening. You need to take pharmaceuticals, we’ll send you to the top psychiatrist. And I went into the top psychiatrist and, to be honest with you, I wasn’t impressed. His diagnosis was, “Hey, you’re a stressful person by nature. We need to put you on antidepressants.”

I didn’t buy that. It was something in me. I didn’t know anything about what was happening to me, but I just didn’t buy that diagnosis. It was the most demoralizing thing I’d ever heard in my life, to be honest with you.

And I kind of was, like, sentenced to a lifetime of antidepressants. Now, I just didn’t feel like that was right. So, I started looking into alternatives. And, you know, I just knew I had to start doing something with my mind. And I knew some mind control was needed. So I looked into meditation. I didn’t know anything about meditation, but I just, back in those days, there was no internet. This was in 1996. And I had to get the big yellow pages book out, you know? We use these as door stoppers to stop the wind from shutting the front door.

So I’m going through the yellow pages looking for meditation. And I just rang all these different numbers. And went to different XX???? talks 0:06:11.000XX and different sessions and eventually I just found one that I really connected with. It was very science-based. It was very quick. Very powerful. Very effective.

So, that’s really what I did is I learned that technique of meditation. It was like a XXVedic meditation 0:06:25.000XX; transcendental meditation style. That’s what I’ve been teaching that same technique for the last many, many years now and practicing that technique for the last 18 years.

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Guy

Did you have to hit rock bottom before you started looking into alternative means? Like, is that a normal case scenario?

Tom

Only for stubborn, pig-headed people like myself. I’m a Scorpio so it’s my natural nature to be stubborn and pig-headed and, you know, most people ideally wouldn’t want to have to get to that point.

And, you know, we can get hints. We can get little hints, little guidance, from our body, from nature. Little messages come through each day. But, you know, for me, I was just ignoring them, that’s all. I was given those hints years before. And I could have done something different, but like Einstein’s definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again expecting different a different result. And eventually I got insanity.

Stuart

Wow

Guy

Fantastic

Tom

But, you know, that was the best thing for me. I was the sort of guy who had to get really slapped in the face for me to listen.

Guy

But you knew they were warning signs at the time? So, you just, like, “Well, whatever.” Just brush it off?

Tom

I thought it was normal to lie in bed two hours before falling asleep and then wake up at 3 a.m. in the morning, wide awake, with insomnia. You know, I just lived with that for years.
Going home at 3, 4 in the morning, guys around me, colleagues, sleeping under the desk and wearing the same clothes the next day at work because they’ve been at a bar or nightclub; strip club, whatever, until 4 or 5 in the morning, going to work for two hours, XXsleeping 0:08:00.000XX, and start the day again. Well, that was normal for us.

Guy

That’s incredible.

Stuart

So, for everyone out there that isn’t completely familiar with meditation, what; how would you define meditation and where did it originate from?
Tom

That’s a good question. Where it originated from, we’ll start with that one. I mean, no one; it’s just so far back that no one really can definitively say. I mean, a lot of the origins are looking like India. I mean, to honest with you, I’m not an authority on the origins of meditation, but it looks like it has come from, you know, thousands and thousands of years ago. I mean, I’ve got texts like the Bagavad Gita was supposedly written somewhere around between 2000 B.C. and 5000 B.C. And they start the Bagavad Gita talking about, you know, ancient times. You know? That they were using these practices.

So, it could go back as far as 10,000 years. They would talk about enlightened ages and golden ages, XXaudio problem 0:09:03.000XX of enlightenment. Many, many thousands of years ago.

And, like quite often happens, knowledge gets lost. It gets diluted as it gets passed down. And so it eroded.

But, you know, that’s looking like the origins of this sort of style. And for meditation, it really can be so diverse. You know, I practice a particular style of meditation using mantras. And what I do is, to make things simple for people, I condense it down into four distinct categories.

And you’ve got concentration meditations where almost you’re putting mindfulness in this category, when you’re using your mind to concentrate, focus on one particular point. And it’s about honing that attention into one specific target, which might be a breath, it might be a third eye, it might be a candle. Whatever it is.

Then you’ve got the contemplation meditation. So, this is where you’ve got some guidance going on. You’ve got someone taking you through a sequence, someone talking to you, someone really in the background or some music in the background doing something for you; going through your chakras.

So, in the contemplation, you’re still engaged in the mind. The mind is still active. There’s still movement within the mind. There’s still fluctuations. And because of that, there’s still going to be fluctuations within the body and movements within the body.
And you’ve got chanting meditations, which are like chanting things out loud: XX“om dimashiba, om dimashiba, om dimashiba, hari hari om, hari hari om, hari hari om.” 0:10:30.000XX

Chanting meditations, they can be sort of bringing the attention down to a single point by saying something out loud. There’s still activity. You’re verbalizing something. You’re thinking something. There’s some movement. There’s some movement going on.

 

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Guy

Something that sprang to mind, it might seem like a big question: What’s the purpose of the outcome of meditations? It is simply to still the mind?

Tom

You know, it can come from so many different things. It can have so many different objectives. And it’s going to depend on each individual person. Someone might want to have a connection to God. I can have four people come to me on a weekend course and say, “I just want to get rid of anxiety.” One might say, “I just want to sleep better.”

One might say, “I want to experience my higher self.” One might say, “I want to dissolve my ego and become one with the field of the cosmos.” I can teach all four of them the same course, slightly skew the dialogue, and they will all get exactly what they were looking for.

Guy

There you go.

Tom

And you can have someone start with, take for me, personally, my example: I started wanting to get rid of anxiety and depression. So, there was a pain point I wanted to be removed. Like, a splinter is in my foot. I wanted to tend to that and get the point out.

But now, after 20 years, my purpose of meditation isn’t to get rid of anxiety/depression. That went after weeks. Now, why do I meditate? Why do I sit down each day to meditate? To me, it’s the experience, the oneness, the feeling of oneness to merge with that cosmos. To merge with that universality. To experience the ultimate essence and define my ultimate truth. And to remove the layers of illusion and ignorance.

Guy

There you go. That’s very different than just removing anxiety, isn’t it?
Do you think everybody should be meditating, Tom?

Tom

That’s a really good question. I think everyone would benefit from meditating, absolutely. I think the planet would be an incredibly different place if we all meditated. And that’s my goal. My inspiration is to inspire one billion people to meditate daily.
I know we’d have a lot less angst, a lot less suffering, a lot less fear, a lot less anger, if we were meditating. But I don’t believe in “shoulds” or “shouldn’ts.” It’s something that we need to find our own way.

Stuart

So, where would be the best place to start if you were completely new to the concept of meditation. What would I do? Where would I go?

Tom

Just give me a call.

Stuart

We’ll put your local number on the site.

Tom

Don’t do that! There’s so many different ways to start. You know, some people say, the technique that I teach, they think it’s an intense practice, because it’s all about transcending. And this is one of the four ones that I didn’t get to finish. There was the three categories that I gave you: concentration, contemplation, chanting. But the fourth one is the one I’ve been doing for 20 years, and it’s a very different practice. And it’s a transcending style meditation using mantras.

You know, these mantras are repeated internally, quietly inside your head. And the mantra is like the carrot in front of the donkey. It’s a very effective mechanism to still the mind because the natural soothing quality of that sound.

And once we understand the nature of the mind, you’ll understand why this meditation technique is a very effective style of meditating, because the mind is always looking for something that’s charming.

The mind is like a little kid, right? You put a little boy, 4 years old, in the corner and he will get bored very quickly. Because he’s looking for something to entertain him. He’s fascinated by things. He wants to explore. And so that will boy will get bored of sitting still and he will start to wander.

And that’s like the mind. It will get bored of sitting still and it will start to wander, because it’s looking for something charming, and thinking is an incredibly charming proposition for the mind.

But when we introduce a sound to repeat effortlessly over and over again, the mantra, the mind finds this really charming. It’s so fascinating. We call these bija mantras, b-i-j-a, and they’re seed mantras that take the mind away from the gross expressed state down into the subtler states. And the mind will do that because of the natural charming quality of those mantras.

And eventually the mind will transcend thought altogether. And when the mind transcends thought, that is the mind has now gone to a place where it’s conscious and awake, but there’s no more fluctuations of the mind.

And the reason the mind will go there and stay there is because it’s found the ultimate source of bliss and charm, and that’s what we call true consciousness.

Stuart

The chatter stops.

Tom

The chatter stops.

Guy

Is that like; I’ve read that it’s just like a muscle. Is it that like a daily practice thing that you have to do to get better at it?

Tom

No. No. I’ve had people start transcending in the first week. If you were doing concentration meditation, that is a muscle that you need to flex. That will require effort. When you’re lifting a weight, which is a good analogy, thanks for using that; when you’re lifting a weight, you need to develop a muscle so that you can lift that weight more easily. And the same thing with concentration is that you’re forcing something to do something that it doesn’t want to do. The mind does not want to stay still, and you need to use force and a concentration meditation to get that mind to do something that it’s not trained to do or doesn’t want to do. Just as lifting the weight is a force. It’s a friction.

But in transcending style meditations, we don’t use force, we don’t use effort, we don’t try. It’s actually the complete opposite. It’s a gentle idea that we entertain inside our mind. We’re happy to surrender that mantra at any given point in time, because when the mind gets close to transcendence, it will go, “I don’t need this mantra anymore. I found something even more entertaining than the repetition and sound, and that’s pure consciousness. It’s so beautiful. It’s so blissful. I’ll just be residing here in this nectar of oceanic awareness.”

 

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Stuart

“Well, I certainly want some of that.”
Well, that does sound very appealing.

Tom

Yeah. It’s; there’s this beautiful realm that people don’t know exists behind the mind. You know, I just had a group of people from all over the world: Colombia, Brazil, Canada, USA, England, Australia, on retreat in Maui. They’d never meditated before, most of these people. And they were immersing themselves in such mind-blowing richness and beauty and glory and magnificence. There were realms that they were accessing they never knew existed before. And that’s because we used a simple vehicle, which is the mantra, to get into that space.

Guy

Like, because you, Stu, you admitted yourself, you’ve got a very active mind, right?
Stuart Cooke: I have such a busy mind. Like, such a busy mind. It doesn’t switch off, you know. I can wake up at 3 o’clock in the morning and I feel like I’ve just come out of a board meeting. I’m wired, thinking about a billion things.

And, you know, I have given meditation a go. But, crikey, it’s like I’m sitting in a cinema and everyone’s talking at the same time. You know, I really, really, really struggle. And so, you know, where would I go, because I’m guessing you’ve probably dealt with a billion people like me.

Tom

Yeah. Again, it comes back to, you know, what do you want to experience? You can start with simple apps like, you know, there are some apps out there where you can do some guided meditations. But, for me, personally, you can fluff around at the edges, dither and dather for 12 months, 24 months, trying meditations that are gonna be really difficult and really challenging, you’ll not really feel like you’re getting anywhere.

Or you can cut straight to the chase and do the meditation that I suggest that everyone should be doing, and it’s probably the most popular meditation that’s spreading across the world. It’s the one Oprah does. It’s the one Hugh Jackman does. The one Ellen DeGeneres does. It’s the one I’ve been doing for 20 years.

Why have I been doing it for 20 years? Because I’ve done all the research, I’ve tried all the meditations, for me, personally, and it’s not for everyone. Some meditations are gonna be better for other people, but for me personally, and for the students I’ve taught, I’ve never seen better results than the technique I teach. And that’s a transcending style meditation using mantras.

Now, if you’re telling me, “Look, Tom, I want to go off into a monastery in the Himalayas for the next 15 years. I don’t want to have to talk to anyone. I don’t want to be successful. I don’t want to have to have a girlfriend. I don’t want to have a mortgage. I don’t want to be dynamic. What do you suggest I do?” I’d say, “Don’t do my meditation.”

Because when you do this meditation, you will be so; you will start to become so successful and so drawn to doing amazing things in the world. This is an integrative meditation practice. You’ll get creative impulses that will blow you away where you’re, like, “God, I just can’t believe I had that idea. I’ve got to go and do something about that.” Whereas the renunciant concentration meditations are much more conducive to concentration meditations and much more conducive to that.

I just want to be; I want solitude. I want stillness. I want silence. I want to recluse from the world. And there’s something really beautiful about that practice. I don’t think it’s for you right now, personally, but if you wanted to do that, I would recommend a concentration meditation.

Stuart

Yeah, right.

Tom

And so it really depends what you want out of life, where you want to go, what you’re trying to achieve. If you want to dissolve stress, trying to sit in a chair and focus on your chakras, it’s going to be really hard work. With that said, focusing on your chakras is a really good meditation. But if you want to remove stress, you need to get deep levels of rest where your mind has become still, and metabolically your body’s dropped into a state of rest that’s equivalent to four times deeper than sleep. Then you need to do the transcending style meditations; the ones I teach.

Guy

You’d better do it, Stu.

Stuart

Well, I’m sold. Crikey.

Guy

You quickly mentioned chakras as well. Can you explain what that term means?

Tom

Yeah. I mean, we have many, many chakras through the body but we have seven main chakras. You’ve got your third eye, your throat, your crown chakra, your heart chakra, solar plexus. In every chakra, and then your base chakra. And so we’ve got all these different points, I guess, energy points, that are through our body and certain practices of meditation are about putting your attention on those energy points and clearing that point and seeing that it’s awakened.

In our world that we’re in in Sydney here and Western lifestyle, we’re quite dominant in our base chakra. So, the base chakra is all about survival, it’s about procreation, it’s about money. And that’s why we have a very grounded base chakra based, sort of focusing on XXtech? Tax? (audio glitch) 0:21:17.000XX and money so much in our lives. Whereas things like a heart chakra, where we just love unconditionally, we just love so openly, without fear, without conditions. It’s a totally different experience.

So, we don’t have very open heart chakras. Our crown chakra, our third eye chakra, is quite closed, because of stress and the nature of being obsessed about the base chakra.
So, for me, I was very base chakra dominant for a long time of my life. It’s taken me a long time to start opening up the other chakras. But, you know, I don’t teach a lot around that. It’s not my sort of niche. But it’s just something I’m aware of.

Guy Lawrence: A thought popped in as well, just we’re rewinding back a bit with the meditation. Like, if there’s somebody listening to this and, you know, the idea of meditation’s great, yeah, I want to do it. But, like you said, every time they go to sit down they get flustered and just move on.

And so, like, looking at it from a nutritional aspect, we hold clean eating workshops. And yet, even though we’re trying to teach people how to eat for life, we embrace them in a 30-day challenge. And we say, “Guys. Start with 30 days, commit to 30 days, and hopefully you’re gonna change enough habits to then go on and start eating better for your life.” You know? Could that work the same with your course of meditation, if we said, like, “Let’s do a 30-day challenge and then let’s see how we feel after that.” And then hopefully we’re gonna get the bug and, you know, keep going.
Tom

Yeah. Look, it’s interesting when you bring the word “challenge” and meditation together. I do have a 21-day program, which is my online meditation program. But I really like to let people do their own research. And I think that’s ultimately the best way for people to get results is that I’m gonna teach you a technique and this technique is gonna really change your life quite quickly. You’re gonna notice significant differences.

Now, a student said to me, “Oh, I dropped off my meditation. I’ve really noticed a difference.” I said, “Great. That’s fantastic. I’m happy that you dropped off your meditation, because now you have relativity and you can see through your own personal research what life’s like when you meditate and what life’s like when you don’t meditate.”
Now, if life’s better when you meditate, there’s your research. And if you don’t want to do it after that, then that’s fine. But you’d ask yourself why would you not want to do it.
Stuart

I think that answers my geek question, because I was going to ask how I could measure the effectiveness of it, either through. . .

 

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Tom

Yeah, it’s a good question. The difference will be for different people; the measurement for different people. Like, for me, what I noticed was I started sleeping immediately, as opposed to waiting one to two hours. That was the immediate effect within the first few days was that I would fall asleep when I put my head on the pillow. I thought, “Wow! That’s insane. I never had that for 10 years.”

Other people might go, “I get this euphoria. I get this blissfulness.” Other people I know, they started crying, because they were releasing emotions of sadness that were in their body. There’s a lot of purification that goes on when you start meditating.

So, the effectiveness of it will depend upon that person, the stress that’s in that individual, the stress that needs to come out of that individual, some get heightened euphoria, some get sexually aroused, some get the ability to sleep really well, some just feel light and blissful. Some feel quite uncomfortable, because they might have a lot of stuff inside, a lot of anger that they haven’t released. It’s sort of, “ahhhh,” coming out.

Guy

Just a release.

Tom

Yeah. Usually, the effectiveness will be measured by the sensations that they’re getting.

Guy 

Right.

Stuart

I guess everyone’s different so you will know if you feel different.

Tom

Yeah, absolutely. I had one client just recently that, there as a couple, a married couple, and they both learned with me. And the wife was just, like, “Oh, my God! This is amazing. I can’t believe it. This is like the best thing I’ve ever done. I just can’t believe how incredible I feel.” That was, like, two weeks later. The husband was completely the opposite. He was like down in the dumps, angry with the world, bitching and just gnarly as all heck. And I had a session with him and what had happened was that this person, all their life, had never been able to find their voice. I mean, just being pushed and shoved and accepted that. And meditation says, “That’s not your truth.”

Guy

Right.

Tom

And if that’s not your truth, you need to find your truth. And all of a sudden all that anger and all that being oppressed all his life, as a kid, was coming out. And so his experience was totally different. And yet they were doing exactly the same technique and the same course.

Stuart

That’s fascinating.

Guy

How much do you think stress affects our health, then, Tom? I mean, obviously you’ve been through a lot of stress. There’s a lot of stressed people out there. A lot of people holding things in, exactly like you said. And now they’ve got their voice. I mean, do you think that directly affects people’s health in a big way?

Tom

Yeah. I mean, Bruce Lipton, who’s the professor at Stanford University Medical School, he said in one of his papers that 95 percent of all sickness is a product of stress. And you can put that down to impaired vision; not eyesight, but impaired vision, awareness, in making poor decisions.
Because when you’re stressed, your brain operates in a completely different way. You go from being intuitive and creative and wise to just operating from primal survival. When you’re stressed, your metabolic rate changes. Your blood pressure changes. Your cholesterol levels change. I mean, when you’re stressed, everything becomes imbalanced. Everything becomes enormous. I’d say stress is one of the biggest killers we’ve got in our society. And the biggest negative impacts.

Because when you’re stressed, what do you do? You start drinking alcohol. When you’re stressed, you start smoking cigarettes. When you’re stressed, you start taking drugs. When you’re stressed, you eat shit food. I mean, it affects us in every single way in our life.

Guy

Definitely.

Stuart

So, what specific factors do you think, Tom, would inhibit meditation? I’m thinking of, well: Is it too noisy? Is it too light? You know. Are there too many distractions?

Tom

Time of day.

Stuart

Exactly. Because we’ll all be in these very different scenarios in our lives. What should we be wary of?

Tom

Um. You know, it’s gonna be almost impossible in our life, in the cities that we live in, to find a completely quiet space. Obviously, noise is gonna be one of the greatest challenges. It’s very distracting for people when there’s noise in the background.

But what we teach with this technique is that if you’re on a bus and there’s someone talking in front of you to their partner, there’s someone behind you on the phone, and there’s someone next to you listening to music on their headphones, you’re still in your headspace and you’re still thinking.
So, if you’ve got a mantra to repeat, you can repeat that mantra regardless, wherever you are. And that will, in effect, be a meditation. I used to meditate on the train nearly every day going to work.

So, noise isn’t really; it can be a distraction. I know being down at the beach where there’s waves moving around, people walking by, there’s some wind, I’m probably gonna have less a deep meditation than if I’m in a really quiet room or a quiet parked car.

Anywhere there’s limited movement, limited activity, limited noise, then it’s going to be more conducive to a meditation, particularly for beginners. But for more advanced people, you can meditate anywhere. I can meditate at a football game and still be OK.

Stuart

Oh, wow.

Tom

Yeah. You just learn to bring your awareness inward, through the training. But in the beginning, you know, there’s a lot of; your senses are continuously going externally, looking for the source of the noise or the smell or the feeling.

Guy

Another question that popped in there, and this seems, probably, a bit contradictory, but, like, if there’s a very busy person, and for this set amount of time you can shorten the meditation, are you going to get the same effect from five minutes as 20? Or does it vary?
Because I know, like, if you started meditating, Stu, the first thing you’d ask is, “Well, how long would I have to do it for?”

Stuart

Minimum effective dose.

Tom

There’s a lot of fancy gadgets coming out these days: five-minute meditations, one-minute meditations. It’s great that we pause. You know, it’s really important that we pause through the day. I think, depending on the meditation style, if you’re gonna do a deep, transcending-style meditation, minimum is 20 minutes. I mean, I don’t recommend you need more than 20. But 20 minutes, you know, 15 to 20 minutes. Under 15, you’re kind of not having enough time to XXdig inside 0:29:55.000XX your nervous system, to wind down the mind.

You know, we have such stimulated nervous systems, such stimulated minds, that it’s really just not enough time to get into those deeper states. I mean, that said, you can get into transcendence within three minutes. I’ve seen my students who come into my courses and come to my Monday night sessions and I have a look around the room and I can see them dropped into deep states within the first five minutes. But I think, for the rebalancing process to really take effect, I’d like to see 20 minutes for the meditation practice.

Guy

There you go. Is there a best time of day to do or do you just fit it in when you can or. . .”

Tom

Ideally, do one before breakfast and one; anytime, I’d say, between lunchtime and dinnertime. Ideally, I like between 3 and 6 o’clock is a nice time. Three and 7 o’clock in the afternoon is a good time. Before dinner.
And, again, it depends on your meditation. See, the transcending style meditation that I teach, the level of rest is so profoundly deep, it’s equivalent to about four hours’ sleep. A deep meditation; 20-minute meditation.

So, ideally you wouldn’t do that before bedtime, because if you had an equivalent of four hours’ sleep at 9 o’clock at night then it’s going to affect your deep sleep session. But if you’re gonna do, like we do a guided meditation before all the kids’ bed, so my family will all sit on the sofa at 8:30 before the kids are about to go to bed and we’ll put on one of my guided meditations and we’ll all sit there with a blanket and listen to 10 minutes of my guided meditation and what that does for the kids is it just XXde-excites? 0:31:26.000XX their nervous system after watching TV. It’s a lot of stimulation with the music and ads and all that sort of stuff going on on TV for 12-year-old kids’ nervous system. So we wind them down with a guided meditation before bed. And that’s a really effective thing to do. So, it depends on the meditation.

Stuart

It just reminded me of, you know, I said I don’t meditate. I have tried meditation once and I went to a; I was given a voucher for a class on; for this little place in Bondi. And I’m not the most open-minded sort of guy, so I thought, you know, OK, I will give it a go, but, you know, I don’t expect anything to come from it. And now I just remember sitting in this class with a lady; I was actually the only guy there and there were about 12 others in there and this lady was telling me to picture myself as a flower all curled up. And upstairs in this, I think it was like in a youth center, there was like junior karate. And every kind of three seconds, one of these chaps would be thrown on the; slammed on the floor. And I’m just trying to picture myself as a flower.

And then there was another guy outside tuning up his Harley-Davidson motorcycle. It was just; it was like a comedy for me, and that was my first experience and I thought, “You know, I don’t know whether this is for me or not.”

But I can see, through what you’ve told me, that that probably wasn’t the best experience and it’s something that I would really benefit from looking into.

Tom

Yeah. Yeah. It’s just, we can’t judge all meditation on that one experience. There are certainly other ways to do it.

Stuart

Are there any factors that could enhance that? I mean, can I drink a cup of chamomile tea and slide into meditation a little easier?

Tom

Definitely, lead-up to meditation is important. You know, you guys have come to my Monday night meditations and you’ll notice, you know, I turn off the overhead lights. I put candles on. We light incense. So, I deal with all five senses. I put on some nice, quiet music.

So, as soon as you walk in you’re getting a sense of your nervous system calming down. Your nervous system’s being prepared for something. I talk softly so you’re hearing soft voices. And it’s really a nice prelude, so people tend to go quite deep in those sessions. And that’s because I’ve prepared their physical body, their nervous system, their mind, for a deeper experience.

And we can do that on our own at home. You know, if you’ve been running around all day, just been shopping and being up at the XX junction wall? 0:34:15.000XX and you’ve been listening to the radio and having heaps of meetings all day and then you suddenly sit in a chair and start meditating, it’s gonna take you a lot longer than if you actually just: Take some time preparing your room, putting on some nice music, lighting some candles, getting some incense out, do some gentle breathing, maybe do a bit of yoga. And then you start your meditation. It’s going to be like a completely different experience.

 

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Guy

You’ve got to work at it, right? It’s not like: “Ah, let me finish this action movie and then, XXfeck it?? I figure?? 0:34:41.000XX, I’ve got to fly to my 10-minute meditation time and then. . .”

Tom

You can still do that. I mean, if you’re pushed for time, it’s still worth doing that. But if do it for a little bit of time, it’s the prep. Not every one is going to have time for the prep. So, it’s one of those things. . . Or the space for it. You know, you just get on a bus and all of a sudden you start meditating. You haven’t got time to light candles and sit them in front of you and burn some incense.

So, you know, there are certain times you just aren’t gonna do it. But it does; I think it does help.

Stuart

Have you ever meditated; you said you’ve meditated on the way to work. Have you ever missed your stop on the bus or the train?

Tom

I have, yes. I ended up; I was supposed to go to Martin Place. I ended up at Town Hall and Central. I told my work that’s why I was a little bit late that day.

Stuart

I’m guessing you probably don’t promote meditation while driving.

Tom

It’s not a good idea, no.

Guy

What; like, we ocean swim a lot. And I do a bit of yoga a couple of times a week as well. Is that a form of meditation?

Tom

Oh, yes, definitely. You know, anything that’s repetitive. Walking can be meditation. Swimming is a really meditative practice, particularly doing laps in a pool, looking at that little black line below you, it’s “breath, one, two, three, four, breathe, one, two, three, four, breathe.” It’s definitely a meditation.

What you’re not gonna get is metabolic rest. OK? So, mentally it is definitely a meditation. But physically, you’re not gonna have metabolic rest. So, in stillness, when the mind is still, and not moving in transcendence, your physical body’s oxygen requirement is almost zero, and it’s been proven metabolically that you are about four times metabolically deeper in rest than you would be in a deep sleep.

Guy

Wow. That’s incredible.

Stuart

I’m looking forward to getting into this. That’s for sure.

Tom

This is where the repair happens. So, the body is this incredible organism that has this intelligence within it that it will repair. It will operate and function at the highest level. We have sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. It’s a beautiful design by nature. We’re just not getting the levels of rest that are appropriate enough to get that deep healing process activated. And that’s what happens in meditation.

Like, for me, OK, I had anxiety, I had depression, I had insomnia, I had agoraphobia. Huge levels of distortion. Constantly getting sick. I didn’t have to take tablets. I didn’t have to see doctors. I didn’t have to see therapists. I just simply put my body in a deep level of rest twice a day, morning and evening. I had all the anomalies. I started producing serotonin, oxytocin, reduced adrenaline, norepinephrine, cortisol. I started healing on every level; started getting rest. And it was just a natural mechanism in my body to do that.

Guy

I’m inspired. I want to do it. I think high-end athletes would benefit greatly from this.

Tom

Yeah. A lot of high-level athletes are now starting to realize the power of meditation.

Guy

When you describe it like that, yeah.

Tom

Yeah. Yeah. It surprises people when I talk about it on a physical level, but it is just as much, if not more, a physical practice than it is a spiritual and mental one.

Stuart

What are your thoughts on the plethora of iPhone apps and gadgets out there? Is it something that we should be doing on our own, or can we plug in to technology?

Guy

XXFinding Real Bits?? 0:38:12.000XX is another one as well, isn’t it?

Tom

I mean, everything’s relevant. We’ve got technologies causing a lot of our problems in the world today, with stress levels and our constant attachment to acquiring information. But it’s also gonna be the source of the solution to the problem.

By my online program, I can now get meditation to people all over the world. I have people every day emailing us from Mexico, Kenya, Venezuela, and even a remote XXGalapagos? 0:38:45.000XX north of Finland. Some woman said, “You know, you’ve changed my life. You’ve taught me how to meditate.” And that’s because what I teach in person I can now deliver to the masses through digital format. And we couldn’t do that less than 10 years ago.

Stuart

Yeah. It wouldn’t work so well as like a bulk mail-out, would it?

Tom

What’s that?

Stuart

A bulk mail-out wouldn’t work quite as well.

Guy

Yeah, sending fliers out to Venezuela.

Tom

Oh, that’s right. Exactly. Yeah.

Guy

Mate, we got an Instagram question pop up and I thought, ah, this one’s a good one: What were the key lessons that you learnt, allowing you to improve your meditative experiences?

Tom

That’s a good question. Well, I’ll answer that in regards to my specific practice. And one of the things that was most relevant for my practice, which is different from a concentration meditation, but for a transcending style meditation, using a mantra, one of the most important things that I was taught that helped me refine that practice was to not hold onto the mantra as a clear, firm pronunciation, but to very effortlessly entertain it as a faint idea so that as the mind is moving toward the transcendent state, toward stillness, it’s able to surrender the attachment to the sound and let it go. So, if you hold onto that as the clear pronunciation, then the mind is attached to the repetition sound, which means the mind is moving constantly.

Guy

Could you be stressing yourself out to think that you’re getting the mantra right or wrong? The pronunciation?

Tom

Absolutely. That’s why we emphasize, and that’s why it’s important to do a course where you get guidance. I highly recommend for anyone that, this is the big challenge people have is that they’re trying to do meditation on their own. It’s probably the most important thing you can do. And yet we’re reluctant to get authorities to guide us in that space.

And it’s really important that you have someone to assist you in your meditation practice, because not only do you want to make sure that you understand the process very well, and understand why you’re gonna have certain sensations or why you’re gonna have certain experiences that might be a little bit challenging at times. But you’re talking about your unconsciousness here. And everything that you do in life is gonna flow from your consciousness.

And we go to chiropractors, we go to doctors, we go to dentists, we go to mechanics to fix our car. We see professionals in every area of life except for our mind.

Stuart

Yeah. The most important part as well.

Tom

The most important part.

Guy

Hey, Tom, yes, good point. We ask one question on the show at the end, every guest. And I can just see Stewie’s face. His brain is working overtime.

This gold. I mean, we’ll be talking about this for weeks after, Tom.
So, what’s the single best piece of advice you’ve ever been given.

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Tom

Yeah. That’s a really good question. I would have to reference a book, it was a reference from a book called Emmanuel’s Book. And I don’t know if it’s advice as opposed to an insight, but I probably take it as an insight. And that is that ultimately, beyond all the thoughts, all the seeming conditions of what I perceive myself to be, there is the subtle essence of who I am. My ultimate truth.

Is it, “I’m love?” And all I need to do is embody that. And when I’m embodying that as my ultimate truth in every moment, then that’s what we call in Sanskrit “moksha.” Freedom. That is true freedom. There is no circumstance you can’t feel liberated in when you’re just embodying the truth of who you are. And that’s love.

Guy

Fantastic answer.

Did it take you a long time to; like, if somebody had that to you when you were in your stock-trading days, bond-trading days, you know, probably wouldn’t have registered the same as to the Tom of today, right?

Tom

There’s a reason for that in that knowledge gets superseded by our experience. So, you can have a concept in your head, but if your experience isn’t aligned with that concept, then your experience will override the concept. So, if your concept is, “I’m peace and love,” but if you’re stressed to the hilt, you’ve been up all night doing cocaine and drinking bourbon, and you wake up and you say as an affirmation, “I’m peace and love,” or, “I’m the light.” Your experience will tell you a different story.

And when you’re driving to work in your BMW and there’s a traffic jam and you’re late for a boardroom meeting and a lot of things depend upon this and you’re really stressed and you’re hammering the steering wheel, cussing and cursing, listening to some, you know, hard-core metal music, it doesn’t matter what that concept is. You could have little Post It notes written all over your car on the dashboard saying, “Hey, I’m peace and love.” We need our experience to align with the concepts. And it took me a long time for my physical body to be purified of the imbalances so that I could start to feel that.

So, now my feeling is aligned with the concept.

Guy

That makes so much sense when you put it like that, Tom. It really does.

Tom

You know, I had a guy at work had heard a lot about the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. And this guy, like, he was a stress bag. A typical broker, just as I was. And he said, “I really want to read this Power of Now. It sounds really good. It’s something I think I should read.” I said, “Sure. I’ll lend it to you.” And I lent it to him. And he wasn’t a meditator, and I knew that he was gonna struggle with that book because if you don’t know how to still the mind or if the mind isn’t naturally, spontaneously living in the now, then (and the mind doesn’t really like to live in the now. It’s in the future and in the past; it’s forecasting and remembering).

And he got about a third of the way through the book and gave it back to me and he said, “You know what? I kind of get what he’s talking about, but I don’t get it.” And that’s because his experience was invalidating the content in the book. He didn’t know how to live in the now, because his mind was always in the future and the past. Without meditation, it’s almost; I’d almost say it’s a great book to read after you’ve been meditating.

Guy

Right. And be present. It’s funny you say that, because I’ve read a book, and I’ve gone, “What the hell are they on about?” And picked it up five years later and it’s a completely different book. Even though it’s the same book.

Tom

Yeah. Absolutely.

Guy

That’s awesome. Any last words, Stu?

Stuart

Well, I just need your phone number.

Tom

I’ll answer it in a second and I’m coming to see you.

Guy

Where can we get more Tom Cronin for our listeners, Tom?

Tom

The best place to probably go is to the Stillness Project. And the Stillness Project really is a movement we’ve created. Its foundation is to inspire a billion people to meditate daily. Because we see the power of meditation when we incorporate that in their lives. Everything changes. And if we get more people meditating, we’re gonna have a better planet.

So, the Stillness Project is about that. It incorporates retreats, digital programs, digital mentoring, live mentoring, live programs. They can get most of what they need to find about me at the Stillness Project.

Guy

Awesome. We’ll drop a link below anyway on our website.

Tom

It’s StillnessProject.com.

Guy

Excellent. Fantastic.

That was awesome, mate. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Tom.

Stuart

Thank you so much for your time. This stuff, I can see now, it’s critical to mind, body, spirit, holistic health and wellness. I look forward to finding out more and experiencing more. Put it that way.

Tom

Nice stuff guys, Thank you.

Guy

Thanks, Tom.

Stuart

Thank you, buddy.

Guy

Cheers, mate.

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Dan Henderson: The Best Exercise For Fat Loss?


The video above is 2 minutes 28 seconds long

Guy: Working in the fitness industry for many years, the one question I would get asked all the time was, ‘what’s the best exercise for fat loss?’ So it was great to be able to reverse rolls and ask our special guest this week that very question :)

Dan henderson kettlebellsDan Henderson is co founder of Australian Kettlebell Institute. The first ever accredited Kettlebells and functional training educators here in Australia. He is also the founder of Coastal Bodies, a Sydney personal training studio that specialises in fat loss, muscle gain, strength and fitness and corrective exercise.

Dan has a BA in Sport and Exercise Mgt, Honours in Human Movement, Cert 3 and 4 in Fitness Instruction, Functional Movement Screen (FMS) Level 2, Level 3 IUKL Kettlebell Instructor, Certified REHAB Trainer, CHEK Holistic Lifestyle Coach (HLC).

The Full Interview: Kettlebells, Fat Loss & the Minimum Effective Dose


downloaditunesIn this episode we talk about:-

  • Why you should include kettlebells
  • Weight training & women. Do they bulk?
  • Why it must be fat loss not weight loss!
  • What’s the best exercise for fat loss
  • Importance of recovery & overtraining
  • The factors that hinder weight loss
  • And much much more…

CLICK HERE for all Episodes of 180TV

Want to know more about Dan Henderson?

Enjoy the interview or got any questions for Dan or us? We’d love to hear them in the comments below… Guy

Transcription

Guy Lawrence: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence with 180 Nutrition, and welcome to another episode of the Health Sessions. Our special guest today is Dan Henderson. Now, Dan is the founder of Australian Institute of Kettlebells. Now, these guys were the first-ever accredited kettlebell and functional training educators here in Australia, and they’ve now coached over thousands of personal trainers.
Dan also has a personal training studio that he’s been running for seven years in Sydney, you know, specializing in fat loss, muscle gain, strength and fitness, all the usual stuff, and he also has a BA in Sport and Exercise Management and an Honors in Human Movement.
Pretty cool, eh?
You know, working in the fitness industry myself for many years, you know, there was also one question I have to ask him, because I would get asked this time and time again, you know: What is the best exercise for fat loss?
So we dive into stuff like that and many other things as well, and dig deep into the world of fitness, exercise, and kettlebells, and I’m sure you’re going to enjoy it. If you listen to this through iTunes, you know we always really appreciate a review. It takes two minutes to do, and it really helps with our rankings and gets the word out there. So that’s much appreciated and, of course, if you’ve got any ideas for future podcasts, drop us a line, you know.
And, also these are also shot in video, so if you are listening to us through iTunes, come over to our blog at 180nutrition.com.au and you can see our pretty faces as we talk as well.
But anyway, enjoy the show. You’ll get a lot out of this today. I have no doubt, and let’s go over to Dan.
Guy Lawrence: All right, so, I’m Guy Lawrence. With Stuart Cooke, as always, and our special guest today is Mr. Dan Henderson. Dan, welcome. Thanks for joining us on the show, mate.
Dan Henderson: Thank you very much for having me, boys.
Guy Lawrence: We’re very excited. So, was thinking, personal trainer, fitness studio owner, founder of Australian Institute of Kettlebells, the list is pretty impressive, mate. Have I missed anything?
Dan Henderson: Thank you.
Guy Lawrence: Tell us, yeah, clearly you’ve got a passion for health and fitness. How’d it all start with you?
Dan Henderson: Yeah, look, it’s been something that has been there as long as I can remember, Guy. It’s, you know, I’ve always loved to be fit and active. I was always encouraged to play a lot of sport. Where I saw my career heading was actually into the sports management side, so I just loved being around sporting events. I loved the competition. So that’s what I studied at university, but found myself really gravitating towards the fitness side of things as opposed to sport, and, yeah, it’s just been, you know, full on from there.
It’s really been… It’s not only my job, but it’s my passion, and that’s what I’ve been pursuing for the last seven years, from the time I’ve been in the fitness industry full time.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Amazing. I did your kettlebell certification, like, when you guys first started out. It’s been quite a while ago.
Dan Henderson: Yeah. That would’ve been many moons ago. That would’ve been about five years ago. So, yeah. We’re over five years now with that certification. Couple of thousand trainers in four or five different countries we’ve done now, and, so, it’s, from the little course you would’ve done five years ago to what it is now, it’s been exciting.
Guy Lawrence: It’s massive.
Stuart Cooke: So, why kettlebells, Dan? And did you ever think of founding the Australian Institute of Skipping Ropes, perhaps?
Dan Henderson: It really, it was a tough decision, Stewey. Skipping ropes was definitely, aerobics, was definitely in the mix. Decided to go with the kettlebells…
Guy Lawrence: They’re great fun.
Dan Henderson: Yeah! It was, it was a tough call. It’s, you know, a little less Spandex I had to wear there. That was a definite con. Seriously, the kettlebell was just this tool which I just gravitated towards. I loved it. I love the dynamic nature of nature. I love the coordination, developing power, developing speed, strength.
The skill component really got me, so it was like, it was like learning a new sport or martial arts. So that’s what really attracted me towards it and, you know, the intention when I used it wasn’t to form a new company where we’re, you know, running 200 courses in a year. It really wasn’t. It was, “Hey, this is a great tool. I love it.”
I found out everything I could about it and then I wanted to learn more and there was just not much in Australian market for PTs, so I put together a little course, ran it, you know, to really small groups of four and five for about, oh, twelve months and everyone else caught on about what a great tool kettlebell was.
And, it’s just, now you can’t go into a gym without there being kettlebells or kettlebell classes and a lot.
Stuart Cooke: Yeah.
Dan Henderson: Back then, it was, no one was using them, and it was, it’s been a phenomenon since then. Yeah.
Guy Lawrence: I’m just assuming that everyone listening to this is going to know what a kettlebell is, right, you know, like a cannon ball with a handle really isn’t it?
Dan Henderson: That’s a good description. It’s a good description. It’s like a big round, circular weight with a handle. That’s what it is.
Guy Lawrence: And they just vary in different weights, right. And, but, like you said, because I’ve been, you know, I was a PT eight, nine years ago, and you just wouldn’t see a kettlebell in the gym. Period.
Dan Henderson: No. No way.


Guy Lawrence: Do you know the history of them? Like, where did they come about?
Dan Henderson: Yeah, so there from Eastern Europe. History, kind of, you know it’s an old tool. It’s a tried and tested tool. It’s been around, I think, like, some of the research says couple of hundred years in Russia. They were using it with their athletes. They were using it with their armed forces. And, you know, they’ve taken a different shape and the style of exercises has changed as well and developed, but it’s a tried and tested tool in Eastern Europe, but it really didn’t make its way over to the Western world, the U.S., in particular, until about fifteen years ago, maybe not even quite that long.
And a couple of guys, Pavel Tsatsouline, Steve Cotter, they have been really the advocates for getting it out and making it a lot more mainstream and that’s why we’re seeing it around a lot more now.
Guy Lawrence: Do you think that CrossFit has contributed to the popularity of the kettlebell?
Dan Henderson: Yeah, look, I think there’s been a, I think there’s been a number, yeah, a little bit, yeah, I think there’s been a number of factors, you know, definitely, when it’s a tool which is on ESPN and getting hundreds of thousands of viewers seeing it. It’s absolutely been a big thing, too. Ferriss wrote about it in 4-Hour Body.
Stuart Cooke: Yeah. I was going to say. I read that section, and I think he said if there was piece of sporting equipment that you could use for the rest of your life, it’s the kettlebell for, like, an all over, full-body workout.
Dan Henderson: Yeah, it was phenomenal when that book got released. We were getting… It was a great lead generator for us, because people were, people read it and were inspired to use it. It was massive.
Guy Lawrence: It made me go out and start swinging kettlebells more often, like, you’re just like, “This is amazing. Burn fat in 15 minutes a day.”
Stuart Cooke: Exactly. I guess you were lucky he wrote about kettlebells and not skipping ropes, because you could’ve missed the boat there, couldn’t you have?
Dan Henderson: Would’ve missed it, and I know why Guy would’ve jumped onto the kettlebell following 4-Hour Body. There’s a picture of a girl’s booty in there, before and after kettlebells. So I can understand why you were as eager, Guy…
Guy Lawrence: I actually need to improve my own booty. That is true.
Stuart Cooke: Crikey. I don’t know what to say to that.
Guy Lawrence: All right, let’s talk about benefits. So what are the overall benefits of the kettlebells, because it can be… Would you say they’re dangerous in the wrong hands then?
Dan Henderson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It’s funny you just said that. We just got a call from a solicitor, and they’ve asked us to be an expert witness, because it looks like a malpractice case where someone has used them incorrectly. I kind of relate it to any piece of exercise or sporting equipment. If used incorrectly, it’s going to be dangerous.
And a kettlebell is no different. I think maybe it has the perception that it’s more dangerous because it’s quite dynamic, the exercises, so you’re in a less controlled environment, and that’s really why we produced our course is because we want people using them right, because it’s such an incredible tool, and there are so many amazing benefits to it, but when you use it incorrectly, you’re going to do damage.
You’re going to do damage to your back if you’re doing it incorrectly. If you’re pressing badly, you’re going to have impingement in your shoulder. All these different issues will surface. So it can be dangerous in the wrong hands without proper training.
In terms of the benefits, it’s, there just numerous. It’s, there a phenomenal tool, particularly for, we’ve already said it, training the posterior. It’s where people are weak: the glutes, the hammies, the lower back. Phenomenal, it’s great.
You know, there’s been numerous studies done now on XXhamstring?XX [0:09:26] activation, happens in your back extensors and they’re coming that it gets more activation than any other exercise tool. There are studies done where people that are doing kettlebells can keep their heart rate elevated at a 90 percent max for an extended period of time, which you just can’t do with a lot of other pieces of equipment.
It’s good for coordination. It’s good for strength. It’s good for power. It’s good for coordination, so yeah, the list goes on. It’s numerous.
Guy Lawrence: Sold. Yeah.
Dan Henderson: Sold.
Stuart Cooke: So the kettlebell would be part of your armory, in terms of weight training and things like that. What do you think would be the overall benefits of purely lifting weights, you know, for our well-being, for everybody out there on the street?
Dan Henderson: Oh, look, weight training, it’s a necessity. It’s not even an option for people. Even if you’re runners, swimmers, if you’re, you know, just older and you’re walking, you’ve got to be doing weight training, and I could almost do a full podcast, actually, I could easily do a full podcast on the benefits of weight training, but definitely, you know, it’s very good for your bone health. It’s very good for your bone density, very good for your metabolism. The more lean muscle we have through weight training, the better our metabolism is going to be, and that decreases as we get older, so we want to try to reverse some of that natural aging. It’s very good for our nervous system. It’s very good for strength, developing power. It’s very good for endurance. It’s good for insulin resistance. It’s very good for the body’s uptake of glucose. It’s good for your bones. It’s good for your joints.
Guy Lawrence: XXNatural hemoglobin reduction.XX [0:11:17]
Dan Henderson: Yeah, absolutely. It’s huge. Decreases stress, and then we haven’t even gone on to the aesthetics side of things. I mean, it makes you look good, so…
Stuart Cooke: Makes you look buff.

Dan Henderson: Makes you look buff, exactly. Most people, when they come and see me, they don’t go, “Hey, Dan, I’d really like, I’d really like better connective tissue.” No. “I want big pecs, Dan. I want big guns. That’s what I want.”
And weight training does that, plus all the other long-term benefits.
Stuart Cooke: So to pull that over to somebody like me. I’m a reasonably skinny guy, and naturally lean. Would I just go into the gym and just lift weights hell for leather to get buff, or would there be a much more strategic approach from you?
Stuart Cooke: Oh, Stu, you’re already buff. Look at the chest.
Guy Lawrence: He is a buff boy. He’s very diplomatic.
Dan Henderson: There it is. One session with me, and look at that chest. That was just one…
Stuart Cooke: You’ve done it. You’ve fixed me.
Dan Henderson: Look, I think it’s… You need to have, you need, like anything in life, you need to have a plan. You need to have a program, so you’re using your time to its maximum efficiency, and you’re getting the best possible outcome.
If you wanted to, you know, get buff, then we’ve got to manipulate the variables so we can do that. So in terms of programming, and Guy would know these things from his days as a trainer, is we need to make sure our rep counts is right. We need to make sure rep periods are right. We need to make sure that we’re training the right muscles using compound lifts. We need to get you in an X number of days and that’s just the training side of things, and then we’ve got all the pre and post-training nutrition so we can get you that best possible outcome, so we can get you buff.
There really is a lot to it. I mean, at its kind of high-end level, anyone can go into the gym and start pushing a few machines around, but that’s not going to get you the best possible outcome.
Stuart Cooke: Yeah, right. You need the master plan, I take it.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah. You need strategy, right?
Dan Henderson: You need a strategy, yeah.
Stuart Cooke: I’m coming to see you. I’m coming…
Guy Lawrence: He won’t listen to me, mate.
Dan Henderson: Sold.
Guy Lawrence: We’re like an old married couple.
Stuart Cooke: That’s right. In fact, you know what? I’m going to log off right now, and I’m coming down.
Dan Henderson: Sounds good. I’m logging off as well.
Stuart Cooke: See ya, Guy.
Guy Lawrence: A thought that was raised earlier as well, is like, you know, pulling it back to the kettlebell a little bit, because, you know, correct me if I’m wrong, but it’d be fair to say this is to bring the kettlebell into, as a tool in your armory, right, of what your overall benefits are. You wouldn’t want to just be swinging a kettlebell, or you wouldn’t want to be just weight training. What are your thoughts on that, Dan?
Dan Henderson: Yeah, good question, Guy. I think, particularly in the fitness industry, because I guess I’ve got two businesses, I’ve got one for the consumer, one for professionals, and what tends to happen with the fitness industry is we seem to get fixated on one type of training or one style of training and preach that above each and everything else. Where really what I say to all our students is, “Hey, the kettlebell is a great tool. Fantastic. Love it, but it’s one tool in your kit.”
So, does it mean they shouldn’t be using barbells? Hell, no. You should be using barbells, dumbbells, suspension training. You want to mix it up. Obviously depending on what the outcome is you’re trying to achieve, but one tool is not better than the other. They’re just different, and you use them for different reasons.
So, you know, I really like kettlebells for the offcenter nature of them. It’s great for building up shoulder stability. It’s great for building up posterior strength. And it’s good for some interval training that we do, but I will never run a kettlebell-only session. It will always be in combination with bodyweight exercises, with barbell stuff, and a whole bunch of other tools and things.
Guy Lawrence: And flipping on from that, let’s talk about recovery. You know, I remember back in the day, I would see people in the gym twice a day sometimes and six days a week, and like, if there was a seventh day, if they weren’t closed on Sunday, they’d be in there. And there was this mentality, “More is better. More is better. It’s going to get me there quicker and faster, you know?”
Can you just explain your thoughts on recovery and the reason, the rationale behind it, I think, you know, because that can be overlooked.
Dan Henderson: Yeah, I think it’s a massive one. I think there’s been this real shift where we’re promoting super hard, intense, high-intensity interval training and doing that lots and lots and lots of times for a week, and if you are not giving yourself proper recovery, then it’s going to lead to a whole host of issues.
You’re going to start getting sick, because you’ve got a depressed immune system, because you’re putting that much stress on your body. You’ll actually start increasing cortisol too much, which is another stress on the body. You’ll have lots of inflammation. You’ll have lots of soreness in the body as well, so recovery is just as important as your training.
As we talked about a training plan, you need a recovery plan as well. You know, you shouldn’t be overtraining. Myself, I train four to five times a week max, and if my body’s not feeling it, I’m making sure I’m doing more of a mobility session. You shouldn’t be doing soft tissue work within your sessions in joint mobilizations. So you’re actually letting your body get rid of any toxic byproducts from training as well.
Need to be sleeping. Sleeping is just vital and often overlooked. Hydrating the body is a big part of your recovery.
Guy Lawrence: Nutrition…
Dan Henderson: Nutrition, massive, you want to make sure you’re getting lots of good quality protein or lots of good quality antioxidants which are natural. You want to be making sure that you’re actually consuming enough calories as well or enough food, because a lot of people when they train just end up in this terrible undereating phase.
Guy Lawrence: What’s funny, we only put out a post the other day about the biggest mistakes on clean eating and one is people start eliminating some gluten and grains or whatever, pulling these back, and then the next thing you know they’re not eating enough food.
Stuart Cooke: Yeah, they don’t know what to eat, essentially so they don’t eat.
Dan Henderson: Yeah, they don’t eat and it’s crazy, like, your body needs this fuel particularly if you’re going to be putting it through hard training, like even more so. So you need to be even more diligent. Overtraining is a really big thing. I’ve seen particularly a number of young guys get caught in the trap. Their thinking more is better, more is better, but it’s actually, that’s not, that’s not the case. It’s actually less is more a lot of the time. Have a recovery plan and you’re going to see huge, huge benefits physiologically, and aesthetically you’ll get better results, but just from an energy level, you’re just going to feel a whole hell of a lot better.
Guy Lawrence: So that’s the thing. I remember I always used to say to my clients, like, you know, the benefits come in your recovery. You don’t get fitter by running; you get fitter by recovering from your run, you know? And it’s the same with weight training. It’s all, that, you know, the growth happens when you’re sleeping and the next day. So you’ve got to give your body that time.
Stuart Cooke: Well, with that weight training point in mind, many females fear weight training, thinking that, you know, they’re going to get big and bulky and buff and manly, perhaps. So what are your thoughts on weight training from a female perspective?
Dan Henderson: Yeah, it’s a great question, Stu. It’s a really good question. It’s the question in my studio with my female clientele. It comes up every, almost without fail, every single female because what we prescribe is a lot of strength training. It’s a lot of weight training, and the big fear is getting big and bulky, and that’s…The first thing is, well I have to validate that fear, because, you know, we don’t, you never want them feeling uncomfortable where they feel that that may be the case.
On a physiological, since it’s actually very, very hard, a lot of the big, bulky kind of, we’ll call them bodybuilders, but it, it’s, they’re not even, it doesn’t even have to be bodybuilders, they’re supplementing with hormones, so on a real baseline measure, just an everyday person doing strength training, weight training females, they’re going to shape. They’re going to tone. They’re going to lean out their body. They’re going to look terrific. They’re, it’s, what they’re doing is a wonderful thing and it’s going to be very, very, very hard for them to get big and bulky.
But, you know, a lot of my clients will say, “I don’t want to get big and bulky.” So I’ll validate it and say, “Well, let’s do, let’s do a little more volume and a lot of weights. How do you feel about that?” And then that way they feel a little bit more comfortable with the process, because in the end, I want them doing it, and I want them feeling comfortable doing it.
Guy Lawrence: How many days a week would you prescribe that? You know, somebody walks in off the street, a lady, and just like, “I’m willing to train, whatever, do you what you want.” What would your normal prescription be? You know…three, four, two, one?
Dan Henderson: Yeah, look, I think a good mix is important, so I’ll like, so, at the moment we’re running a fat loss program where we’ve got them doing really good strength training two times a week and then doing some metabolic high interval training two times a week, but yeah, look, I think two to three times they should be, they should be lifting weights. They should be doing strength based training and that includes a whole variety of exercises using different tools, so yeah, two to three times is a really good number for me.
Guy Lawrence: Excellent. With that in mind, right, when people, you know, are on the train, the bus, they commute in, they’re very, you know, they’re busy, they’re corporate, whatever it is, and it’s like, oh, you know, I just, some people just want to maintain their health or whatever or even get results, you know, six packs or something, whatever it is. Do you think there’s a minimum effective dose, like, do you have any thinking around that, like, to get the results? Or like, you get to this point and then everything else is excess? If that makes sense.
Dan Henderson: Look, yeah, yeah, look, I think, I think one of the things is people are really inefficient with their training, generally, a lot of the time. They; you go into a gym and there’s, there are, there’s people by the bubbler. There’s people XXtalking by the shoe rampsXX [0:21:53] Have a little flex and make sure that the muscles are still there after XXthey say itXX [0:22:01] So, I actually think, I think we can really, we can get a great strength response in fifteen to twenty minutes twice a week, you know. If you know what you’re doing, and you are time-poor, you can still do it. Everyone’s got 40 minutes a week.
Stuart Cooke: That’s right.
Dan Henderson: And we can still get a great strength response from a couple of sessions, just as long as we’re doing the right things. As long as we’re doing big lifts, which are compound lifts using, you know, lots of big muscles, as opposed to, you know, sitting there doing curls in front of the mirror. If we’re dead lifting, squatting, using bench pressing, all those kind of big compound lifts and we’re programming those appropriately then we can, we can get a great result in as little as 40 minutes a week.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah. I agree.
Stuart Cooke: So, with that minimum effective dose in mind, as well, let’s pull that over to nutrition. So how important would diet be in terms of weight training, strength training, body composition?
Dan Henderson: It’s, it’s, it’s vital. It’s, it’s, you know people put numbers on it. People go 70/30, 70 percent diet, 30 percent exercise. I just heard another one the other day where it was, they said it’s 60 percent diet, 30 percent exercise, 10 percent hormonal, like, they’ll give it a breakdown. I guess, in either case, it’s a majority of your results are what, are going to come from what you put in your mouth. And you need to get both right. If you want good health, if you want body composition changes, you want to feel good, you want to look good, you need to address both the exercise and the nutrition, but the nutrition is vital.
And nutrition, as you guys know, is not just about what you put in your mouth, but it’s when you put it in as well, and you’re really just educating people on that, so you can’t just all of a sudden get a gym membership, start training four or five times a week and think that it is going to be the answer. It is not going to be enough. You need to compliment it with some nutritional changes and vice versa.
You can’t just jump up, you know, if someone out there is thinking about doing, you know, Light and Easy or Weight Watchers or just something to revolutionize their diet, they’re common programs, but they just address one thing and one thing only. You need to think about your exercise, because it’s going to absolutely compound the impact that you’re going to get from that overall program as well.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah. It comes back to like you said, being effective, right? Because why would you, you know, flog yourself five, six days a week, you know, from Maroubra Beach. I see boot camps absolutely hammering it now the sun’s coming up every morning, and I just, you just hope to think that they’re getting their nutrition in check, otherwise it could be, you know, a slow road, even backward.
Dan Henderson: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean, kudos for them for getting out and getting one part of it right, but really you’re just, you’re just not making the most of that time, that investment by only doing that. You need to address the nutrition, and I think that’s where a lot of people get it wrong. They go one or the other and they go extreme one or the other as opposed to having a balanced strategy which addresses both nutrition and the exercise.
Guy Lawrence: yeah, exactly. The next question, mate. I’ve been looking forward to asking you this one.
Dan Henderson: I’m nervous about this now.
Guy Lawrence: I used to get asked this all the time.
Dan Henderson: I am married, Guy.
Stuart Cooke: Oh, you guys would’ve been so good.
Guy Lawrence: Bugger, but yeah, I would get asked this all the time, and I’d be like, oh, so I’m just going to ask you this. This is great. What is the single best exercise for fat loss?
Dan Henderson: Here it is. The silver bullet. You just want one exercise and then that’s it. Do a few reps of that and then you’re done. Yeah. Maybe if there’s one exercise that is just incredible for fat loss, I would just keep it to myself and then publish a best-selling book and then I can interview you guys on my podcast. There is none. I’m sorry to disappoint Guy and I’m sorry to disappoint the listeners out there. There isn’t one just silver bullet which is going to lead to incredible fat loss or massive results.

Guy Lawrence: Six pack abs.
Dan Henderson: I have a series of exercises that I call my staples, and my staples, what I feel are the most fundamental exercises that they should form the basis of your program no matter what level you’re at and that’s whether you’re entry level, beginner, or whether you’re really far advanced, and you just change the level of, kind of, continue on of difficulty whether you’re, if you’re an entry level, let’s use the squat for an example, because the squat is one of them. You come in, you’ve never exercised in your life, you’re going to do squats. Now I might put you on the XXSwiss ballXX [0:27:08] I might put you up against the wall and you might do some bodyweight squats.
If you’re well-trained, and you’ve been really well-conditioned, hey, we’re going to do overhead squats with a barbell when you’ve got the mobility to do so. There’s my continuum, and then there’s all these different variations in between. That’s one exercise.
Next exercise, dead lift, same thing, I might put you on your knees with a bag, a Powerbag, and you’d just do kneeling deadlifts with a Powerbag. You’re just going to learn how to move through the hips, but if you’ve been, again, trained and been doing it for a while, you’re going to do some serious load on a barbell deadlift, a traditional barbell deadlift.
Pullups, same again, you know we use bands in our studio and, as they get stronger, we’ll move the bands until they’re doing body weight. Once they get to bodyweight, then we start adding load, so they’re doing it with a vest, they’re doing it with a plate between their legs.
So, squats, deadlifts, pullups, pushup, again, same thing. People go, “I can’t do a pushup.” Well, stand up against a wall and then you’re going to decrease the distance, you’re going to get, you’re going to become parallel with the floor over time. So, instead of staying upright, we’re just going to keep moving you down and decreasing the gap between your hands and the floor, and then we’re going to add load to that as well.
And then, obviously, I’ve got to put a kettlebell exercise in there being the kettlebell guy. Swings are another staple, so they’re going to be in there, going to strengthen the posterior, get the heart rate going.
Guy Lawrence: Instantly gets the heart rate going.
Dan Henderson: Instantly get that heart rate going, so they’re kind of my staples: the deadlift, the squat, the pullups, the pushups, and the swing. You know, the other good exercises, lunge and dips are in there as well.
Guy Lawrence: Fantastic.
Stuart Cooke: Well, I’m going to put all of those things in a little book, get it online, and we’re XX?XX [0:28:54] Would you like to buy a copy?
Dan Henderson: Mate, I’m getting royalty, aren’t I? There’s got to be something in that book…
Stuart Cooke: Exactly, exactly.
Guy Lawrence: But it just goes to show, right, that that exercise can really be adjusted for anyone.
Dan Henderson: Absolutely, and this is, I mean I have so many people who are fearful of lifting weights, fearful of doing strength work in particular. Anyone can run on a treadmill, so when people get a gym membership they jump on a treadmill, because it’s monotonous, boring, and it takes no coordination or brain power, but lifting weights is intimidating to people, but hey we just, hey, this is the entry level continuum on difficulty and we just put you on there and we progress you, progress you, progress you.
All right, we have a little trouble, problem, let’s regress, and we just move you through the continuums and, yeah, anybody can do it from, you know, I get 75-year-old ladies to ex-professional athletes, and they’re doing the same movement patterns, they’re just doing different levels of those movement patterns.
Stuart Cooke: So if that was coming from a fat loss, weight loss perspective, what factors, in your opinion would hinder those? So what would I have to be doing wrong to hinder weight loss, you know? I’m doing all this stuff that you’re prescribing, but it’s not working for me.
Dan Henderson: Oh, Stewey, big question. Not.
Stuart Cooke: That’s my question.
Dan Henderson: It was a good one. It was a good one. Look, I guess when it comes to fat loss and weight loss, and they’re two different things and I think, I’ll make it, I’ll kind of digress a little bit and I’ll come back. Most people want to see me for weight loss, and I go, “No, no, no, I’m going to get you fat loss. All right? I’m not going to get you weight loss necessarily, so I’m going to change your body, and you’re going to be a different belt size, different dress size, and your skin folds will be different. Your girths will be different, but your weight will probably be the same on the scales because of the strength training affect that it has on your density of our muscle in our tissues. Okay?”
So, that’s really important, because people get obsessed with scales and if it’s a good quality weight training program, there might not be actually a big difference in scales when it comes to a fat loss program. Yeah, and people really make that mistake, and it’s one of the things I’ve really got to intervene because I’ve really got to make sure that people understand it because people come and see us and they’re training and they’re outstanding and they’re doing a brilliant job and they jump on the scales and they’re so disheartened because they’re only down 500 grams and they’ve been training for, and doing everything like you said that I’ve prescribed, Stuart, and they’re only down 500 grams, but hey, you know what? Their girth is down ten centimeters and you’re now a size 31 waist when they were a 35 waist, and people just, people need to understand that you can make massive changes to your body in a positive way without losing weight, so that’s the first thing.
In terms of where people get it wrong on a weight loss program, if someone’s really following everything I say from a nutrition and exercise front, then something hormonally is going on there that I’m going to go refer out, and I’m going to get some tests and make sure that they’re, they’re, what’s they’re insulin doing, what’s their thyroid doing? These things are really important, so there’s a number of other factors that can…and particularly, more so, with women than with men. Cortisol comes into it as well, so how much cortisol is that person producing, and I think, I mean, so there’s some of the more technical things that’s where people get it wrong.
On a more basic level, I think where people get it wrong in terms of changing their body composition is that they put so much pressure on themselves So it’s like they’re all or nothing, and they go really well for a short period of time. They’re making all the changes, you know, they’re doing everything, but they’re doing it to such an unsustainable level that when they fail, they fail big, and they just bounce back, and that’s why we see this yo-yoing all the time with people where really I’m just about ingraining good habits.

Let’s work on one habit. Hey, let’s get you drinking two liters of water a day instead of drinking a soft drink or fruit juice or reaching for food because your body is mistaking hunger for thirst. Hey, let’s just focus on this one thing for 30 days, then after the 30 days, let’s focus on one more area, and you just build some good long-term habits.
Stuart Cooke: Perfect. It’s so important, these habits, and especially where stress is concerned as well, because, crikey, just from stressing out too much, you can change your hormones there and that could be a roadblock right there.
Dan Henderson: Massive. It’s huge. I mean there’s that much stress in the world and we place that much additional stress on ourselves. We’re making it hard on ourselves. And then, I mean, it’s all, so yes from the hormonal perspective, we can throw our hormones into chaos with stress, but then it’s also what we do as well. When I’m stressed, people have different responses, but I’ll start reaching for feel good foods. I start eating more sugar than I’d normally be accustomed to. I’ll just eat more than I usually do as well, so I, you know, a lot of the time it’s about addressing the stress then let’s address the diet…
Guy Lawrence: Addressing the stress. I like that.
Dan Henderson: Getting to the root of the problem. A lot of the time there’s something bigger underlying there that will sabotage or that will get in the way of the fat loss plans.
Guy Lawrence: That’s a really good point you raise. I do often wonder sometimes about the fact that people are stressing themselves so much out because they’re not eating right and doing the exercising. The fact that they’re stressing themselves out about these things or got to get to the gym is actually hindering them more than if they just sort of, just let it all go for a little bit…
Dan Henderson: Yeah. It’s too much pressure. Yeah. Like, you’ve got to find a lifestyle, and this is a hard thing to do, but you’ve got to find a lifestyle where you’re embracing healthy behaviors and it’s just part of what you do, but you don’t have this unnecessary pressure or stress to do that 100 percent of the time.
Guy Lawrence: Got to make it fun. Absolutely. We’re going to put you on the spot right now. While we’re on the topic of exercise, what do you do for fitness? What’s your typical week look like?
Dan Henderson: Yeah, look, it changes a lot. I like to mix things up. So, at the moment, I’m enjoying some heavy lifting again. So one day I’ll do some heavy Turkish get ups and weighted pullups and heavy pistol squats. Another day I’ll do some heavy deadlifting and bounce some heavy squats, and then I’m really enjoying some sprint training, so I’ll try and sprint one to two times a week, heavy lift twice a week, and then I’ll usually do a circuit based session, so more of that high intensity interval training kind of session. I might do an AMRAP, a 20-minute AMRAP, something along those lines.
Yeah, I really enjoy mixing it up XXaudio distortion. Sometimes I’ll get sport-specificXX [036:12], so I did a XXcompound sessionXX [0:36:14] with kettlebells, and I just was completely sport-specific, but at the moment that’s what I’m really enjoying. I’m liking the variety.
Stuart Cooke: How often would you mix that up?
Dan Henderson: Look, I’ll reassess it, and really one of the things which I do encourage people to do is, look, absolutely seek outside advice and seek an expert and get some good ideas on all this, but also listen to your body. Like, what is your body enjoy doing, and what gives you energy. If this becomes monotonous for me, I’ll have a look at it and go, “Why don’t we mix this up a little bit? Why don’t we do an extra day of sprint training and one less day of heavy.” Because that’s actually, the recovery for that is taking too long on my body.
Guy Lawrence: That’s a good point.
Dan Henderson: Why don’t we just go for a swim, you know, and do some mobility training and go for a swim, so I think people need to listen to their bodies, and if the movement’s energising them and they feel great, you might not need to change it up too much, but if you’re feeling like you’re getting really sore, or you’re tired, or it’s just becoming laborious, then you need to…
Stuart Cooke: Mix it up. Yeah.
Guy Lawrence: Do you ever take a week off, mate?
Dan Henderson: Yeah. I, look, I probably never take a total week off where I’m absolutely doing nothing, because I find exercising energizes me for the whole day. Running a couple of businesses, I just find, like, it’s such a great releaser. What I’ll do is I’ll have what I call a slow week or deload week or, you know, there are lots of different name for it, recovery week…Where I’m really doing a lot more, a lot more soft tissue work, doing a lot more mobilisation, and really that makes up the bulk of my sessions, mobilizations and stretches and activations, and I’ll just do some light activities. I’ll use some lighter loads if I’m doing some weights and I’ll have a light swim and just making sure…
And that usually ties around my travel schedule. When I’m traveling a lot to present, that takes a, it’s really taxing on my body and the last thing I kind of want to do at that particular time is be doing full on heard circuits while I’m in three different times zone and eating all this weird food.
Just place some more stress on my body, because in the end exercise is a stress, and you’ve got to know when you can up it and when you can decrease it as well.
Stuart Cooke: How does that work with your diet? What do you dial into? What foods do you, what foods do you avoid? And what foods do you gravitate to to make you feel good?
Dan Henderson: Yeah, good question. I guess for me, again, it’s similar to how I feel about exercises. I really try to get my body, I really try to be very in tune with my body, and go, “What, how do you actually feel, Dan, after you’ve eaten that food?” And really understand what makes me feel good.
So, for me, lots of grains don’t make me feel good. I feel bloated. I feel heavy. Lots of pastas do the same. Like, all that kind of grainy food does that. I’m not going to say that to everybody, that’s how it makes me feel, so I’m going to steer clear of that, because that’s the reaction that I had.
So, and the foods that make me feel good are, you know, I’m going to be making sure I’m really eating a lot of protein and mixing up my proteins. I really like, I’ll definitely eat chicken probably five times a week. I’ll eat an oily fish three times a week. I’ll eat some lamb. I’ll eat some beef maybe once or twice a week. I’ll have probably about ten eggs a week, so they’re probably my staple proteins.
I’ll have lots and lots of good fats. I love my raw nuts. I love my avocados, so they’re going to be my fats, and they’re going to make up a big bulk of my diet and then, when it comes to, I’ll have just some berries, generally, when it comes to fruit and bananas and lots of veggies as well. Yeah, if I’m struggling on the veggie front, one of the, I’ve got a NutriBullet. Have you guys seen the NutriBullets? Have you got one?
Stuart Cooke: I’ve certainly seen the adverts. Crikey, it’s on every channel.
Dan Henderson: Oh, mate, I’ll tell you what, Stewey, get one. It is, it’ll change your life. If I’m struggling to get fruits and veggies, just chuck some kale, some baby spinach, a few blueberries in there, a bit of coconut water, a bit of the 180 (there’s a plug).

Stuart Cooke: Plug away, mate.
Guy Lawrence: I haven’t heard of it.
Dan Henderson: It’s just really good protein. You guys should look into it. There we go.
Guy Lawrence: Is it powerful enough to chop all the kale up in that?
Dan Henderson: Mate, you know what? Kale used to be the bane of my existence, and putting that thing in a blender used to drive me mad, but, you know, NutriBullet just chops it right up. It’s got this super-fast and super powerful engine and it just does the job. It is the best. So yeah.
Guy Lawrence: That’s the one with the old David Wolfe’s pushing it on the…
Dan Henderson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guy Lawrence: I’m sold.
Dan Henderson: Get on them. Get on them.
Stuart Cooke: Wise words. It sounds great. Essentially you’re gravitating, it sounds like to me, towards kind of whole foods and away from processed foods.
Dan Henderson: In a nutshell. Absolutely. And that’s not to say…
Guy Lawrence: Do you have any tricky treats
Stuart Cooke: I enjoy sweets. Sweets and a big dark chocolate is my Achilles heel. And some good Messina gelato. That is, that is hard to resist. So, a couple of the sweets are good, but on a whole, refined food, and I think for listeners out there, and I don’t know, maybe this sounds all to idealistic, really just slowly cut down all your refined foods and you just find that you don’t actually want them much anymore. Actually, you’ll feel like your body wants whole foods and that’s what you’ll want to give it.
I mean, I’m sure you guys are a testament to that as well.
Stuart Cooke: Absolutely. You gravitate to what makes you feel great and your taste buds and pallet and you know cravings change, too. Cravings disappear.
Guy Lawrence: Do you drink alcohol all the time? You know, I’ve found that I gravitate to a red wine now and that’s about it, if I have a glass, but I don’t even drink beer anymore since I cut out the grains and that, you know? It just doesn’t work for me, not that I drink much these days.
Stuart Cooke: You’ve had your lifetime’s worth, I think, Guy.
Guy Lawrence: I have, in the early years in Wales. My God.
Dan Henderson: You can never, ever, you can’t even call yourself a Welshman now. You’re not drinking now.
Guy Lawrence: They’ve disowned me back home.
Dan Henderson: They’ve disowned you.
Stuart Cooke: That’s right. He’s lost his passport.
Dan Henderson: It’s the same thing. I don’t really feel like it. Like, I’ll have a beer, and I’ll make sure that it’s a good quality beer, like I’ll enjoy a really good quality ale and maybe I’ll have one of those a week on max, and that’s about it. I used to drink a lot more beer, but, again, it just makes me feel bloated. I can feel it in my sinuses the next day. My body just doesn’t like it, so, yeah, I don’t gravitate towards it, and maybe in a social setting I’ll have a really nice tasty more of a boutique pale ale, but that’s about as much as I’ll have these days.
Stuart Cooke: Fantastic. Well, I always go for a nice, full bodied mineral water. I push the boat out there.
Guy Lawrence: He does, man, it’s true.
Stuart Cooke: Why not? Treat yourself.
Guy Lawrence: And if he gets really extravagant he’ll put some lemon in it.
Stuart Cooke: Fresh lemon, mind, not that cordial stuff.
Dan Henderson: Living large.
Stuart Cooke: I know. I know. I’m worth it, as they say.
Guy Lawrence: We’ve got a wrap up question for you, Dan. It can be on any topic, but what’s the single best piece of advice you’ve ever been given that springs to mind?
Dan Henderson: I think I’ve kind of covered it already twice in this interview. It extends to nutrition, it extends to exercise, it extends to running business, it extends to relationships, the biggest piece of advice that I could really instill in people would be to trust your gut. And really, everyone’s got their intuition, other people turn into it more than others, and really your intuition will not let you down and that has been…I’m in the hiring process right now with some staff and intuitively I know whether they would be a good fit for my business within about 30 seconds. Really, and I think we tend to turn off that intuition. We tend to try to rationalise things and try to look at them logically, but if you’ve got a really strong gut feeling on something then you need to trust in that and that could be on your nutrition. It could be on your exercise. It could be in your relationships. It could be in your profession. So, really, really trust in that. That’s my pearl, Dan’s pearls of wisdom to finish up.
Stuart Cooke: Wise words. Wise words. Trust your Spidey sense.
Dan Henderson: Yeah. Absolutely. It won’t let you down.
Guy Lawrence: Fantastic, mate. How can we get more of Dan Henderson? For anyone listening to this?
Dan Henderson: Yeah, I guess the two businesses are always, if you want to learn more about them, I’m putting out information all the time. I’m a big advocate on putting out free information like you guys, so Coastal Bodies is the studio business. Australian Institute of Kettlebells is the kettlebell business. If you want to learn how to do exercises, mobilize, things like that, there are amazing videos there, video library. I write a blog for the Coastal Bodies, so you can learn a bunch of stuff on there, or hit me up on Facebook, and I have a habit of saying something profound. It’s rare, but having XXat the same timeXX [0:46:08]. So you can see some insights on there, so…
Stuart Cooke: Well, we’ll make sure all the details are on this blogpost, too, so we’ll spread the word.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, if anyone’s got an inkling for kettlebells, I can highly recommend the course. It’s a must.
Stuart Cooke: You lift weights, do you, Guy? You’ve tried this kettlebells.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, a little bit. I’ve got a six kilogram kettlebell here as doorstop.
Dan Henderson: Six?
Guy Lawrence: No, no. I’m back to my 24, mate.
Dan Henderson: There we go.
Stuart Cooke: Are you sure it’s not two point four?
Dan Henderson: Let him believe, Stu, let him have that, all right? He’s doesn’t do anything with the 24 kilo. It is a doorstop, but he’s…
Guy Lawrence: I carry it up and down the stairs.
Stuart Cooke: I’m sure. I’m sure his kettlebell is in inflatable, right?
Dan Henderson: It’s completely hollow.
Stuart Cooke: Exactly. Helium, that’s right. Currently on the ceiling.
Guy Lawrence: Awesome. That was amazing. You’re a wealth of knowledge, Dan. Thanks for coming on, mate.
Dan Henderson: My absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me, guys.
Stuart Cooke: Thank you, mate, and I’ll, I’m going to pop around in about 15, because I’m getting buff.
Dan Henderson: Let’s make it happen.
Guy Lawrence: Awesome. Cheers, guys.

Paul de Gelder: No Time For Fear. How a Shark Attack Survivor Beat the Odds

The video above is 02:14 long. Use your time wisely ;)

Paul de Gelder is one inspirational guy! From rebel, drug dealer and strip club worker to adventurer, soldier, fitness enthusiast, Navy diver, shark attack survivor, top motivational speaker with a best selling book and mentor to schoolkids across Australia, Paul de Gelder is an exceptional person to say the least.


Full Interview

Free Health Pack

In this episode we talk about:- 

  • downloaditunesPaul’s rebel childhood to joining the forces
  • That almost fatal morning when he was attacked by a Bull Shark in Sydney Harbour
  • How the incident has changed his life for the better
  • How he handles the ‘tough’ days
  • Why the greatest gift in life is to give back
  • And much more…
  • CLICK HERE for all Episodes of 180TV

More

Lyn Mclean: Is mobile phone radiation dangerous?



2 Minute Taster Above – Full Interview Below

Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

This was actually a tough episode for me as I’m so reliant on technology. I’m quickly learning the very real concerns and problems that surround us daily which are completely invisible; electromagnetic fields/radiation. Like anything though I find the ostrich head burying approach doesn’t work so well in the long term as someone will come along and kick you up the butt! Investigation and preventative measures are needed.


If you want to jump straight to where we talk about mobile phone radiation and if it’s safe, skip to [010:40]

Ever wondered if using a mobile phone is doing the grey matter between our ears any favours?  What about that fancy bluetooth headset you own or the baby monitor that’s in the cot?

These are just some of the topics we cover in this eye-opening interview with EMR Australia expert Lyn Mclean, and more importantly, the steps we can take to counteract the very real problems with electromagnetic fields and radiation (EMR & EMF). After running this interview, I don’t think I’ll ever look at a mobile phone the same way again! Guy…

If you would like to learn more about EMR Australia, click here.

Further reading: The Force & Wireless-wise kids.

downloaditunesIn this weeks episode:-

  • What is EMF & EMR (electromagnetic field/radiation)
  • Is mobile phone radiation dangerous? [010:40]
  • What are the effects of using mobile phones in the car?
  • Laptops, iPads & wi-fi safety
  • Everything from microwave ovens to baby monitors
  • The preventive steps we can take to EMF/EMR exposure
  • and much more…

You can view all Health Session episodes here.

EMR Australia Transcript

McLean: So, the readings at your place were quite good, Guy, Stuart said.

Guy Lawrence: My readings were fantastic. I did all my sleeping area, the work area, and it was like 1. There was nothing higher than 1 in my house, was there?

Stuart Cooke: No. There was nothing higher than 1.9.

Guy Lawrence: There you go. Hence why I sleep so well at night.

Lyn McLean: Excellent.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, right. Very good.

Right, so I’ve got the book and. . .

Stuart Cooke: Let’s roll with it.

Guy Lawrence: I’ll do it, as always. This is Guy Lawrence and today I’m joined with no other than Mr. Stuart Cooke again. Stu, how are you doing? Good to see you. I wore gray today, by the way, so we’re not matching, which is. . .

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, very well, Guy. Probably your blue one is in the wash, no doubt.

Guy Lawrence: My only one. And we’re joined with Lyn McLean from EMR Australia. Lyn, welcome. Thanks for joining us.

Lyn McLean: Thank you. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Guy Lawrence: No worries. Basically, me and Stu ended up having the same colour T-shirt on for the last three recordings, so I’ve gone gray today and it’s worked, which is good.

Just to start, Lyn, for anyone that’s listening to this, can you just tell us a little bit about what you do, who you are and what EMR Australia is as well?

mobile phone radiationLyn McLean: Yes, look, I’ve been involved in EMR now for 17 years. I originally ran the EMR Association of Australia, so that’s how I got involved and was involved, I suppose, or caught up in this issue because I am fascinated by it, but also because there are so many people out there that are having problems with EMR. And it was a very satisfying experience to be able to help them. So, nine years ago, I set up EMR Australia in order that I could continue to do this sort of work in a supported way.

I’ve written three books on electromagnetic radiation and I am a community representative. I have been a community representative on a number of committees; one that developed a code for mobile phone towers and another one to a Department of Health and Australia’s Radiation Authority.

So, I try to represent the community and to keep tabs, I suppose, on what’s going on in the community and to be able to convey that information and hopefully lobby on behalf of people who need help.
Guy Lawrence: OK. All right.

It’s a very real thing. I mean, me and Stu have been quickly learning over the last few weeks, especially when you came and tested our units as well. A lot of people out there are not even aware of what this is. Could you just maybe just explain a little bit about that as well; what we’re actually talking about and dealing with here?

Lyn McLean: Yes, certainly. I think you’re quite right. People don’t know that this is a problem because they can’t see it. But, in fact, we’re surrounded by electromagnetic radiation at home and work.

And there are different kinds of fields. One is the fields from anything electrical, so those are the low-frequency electromagnetic field so they come from things like high-voltage power lines, ordinary power lines, wiring, transformers, conductive pipes. But also any electrical equipment. So, if you’re at work, any equipment that you work on will have an electromagnetic field or any household appliances will have electromagnetic fields.

Now, in some cases, they’re not a worry because the fields are too low to cause people problems. But in some cases, they can be quite high and then we get people who are actually getting sick, and sometimes by reducing those fields, people get better. And often we’re reducing those fields and people get better or feel better.

So, those are the electromagnetic fields. On top of that, we have wireless radiation, which has really just proliferated in the last few years. So, now I’m talking about things like mobile phone towers, TV transmitters, of course, and radio transmitters. But, more commonly, things like mobile phones, cordless phones, wireless modems, even baby monitors and microwave ovens have got this wireless radiation.
So, it’s all around us, and, again, people are getting sick from too much exposure and then when that exposure is reduced they feel better. So, what we try to do is help people, first of all, understand what their exposure is and they need to do what’s necessary and what’s easy, in fact, to reduce it.

Stuart Cooke: Very interesting.

Guy Lawrence: When you say people are getting sick from it, what would some of the symptoms be, because, I mean, we were just discussing it the other week because, you know, I just assumed EMF and EMR were the same things. Also, you know, Stu spoke about his sleep and just by shifting the bed he could sleep. So, that was a symptom and then it’s helped him greatly, I know.
So, when you say, “sickness,” what can some of the symptoms be from that?

Lyn McLean: Yeah, well, the serious problems are things like brain tumors and that’s where a lot of the research has been and there’s a whole science about brain tumors that we can go into. So, that’s one problem.
But other things are things like fertility, because there’s now quite a lot of evidence that shows that mobile phone radiation is affecting the behavior of sperm. And it’s affecting the behavior in ways that’s consistent with infertility. So, it’s quite likely that it’s contributing to infertility in males, particular.

Now, as well as that, there are a whole lot of things that a lot of people wouldn’t call “health problems,” but they’re things that you just feel terrible. If you’ve actually got things like headaches. And I’m talking about not just a little bit of headache but unusual headaches; really intense pressure or people will describe them as weird sort of headaches. Things like depression. Things like sleep problems that we mentioned.

Skin problems is a big one. A lot of computer users have had skin problems. Pain, in some cases. Nausea or gastrointestinal problems. Fatigue is another one. And heart palpitations. They’re actually quite a lot of symptoms and they seem to be symptoms of the nervous system. So, those. . .

Guy Lawrence: What should we do if we’re worried about how much EMR we’re being exposed to at home or perhaps, you know, we have these symptoms, and, you know, we’re slowly joining the dots and thinking, well, you know, perhaps I should do something about this?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. The very first thing I suggest to people is to actually measure, because we’ve found is a lot of people ring up and say: I think I’ve got EMR from, let’s say, it’s the power line out front or it’s the transformer. And then often when you go and measure you see, yes, there is a little bit from that, but the biggest problems is something completely different that they didn’t see or didn’t think about.
So, the very first thing is to measure. And what that does is it actually shows up exactly what you’re exposed to. And I think that’s absolutely critical, because otherwise it’s a bit like going to the doctor and saying, “Look, doctor, I feel sick,” and expecting him to give you a pill that’s going to fix everything. Well, he’s not going to do that because he’s going to want to know what’s causing your sickness so he can give you the right pill. So, in the same way, we want to know what’s causing the fields or the exposure and therefore what’s the appropriate thing to put in place to deal with that.
So, we go out and measure or we hire meters to people and that’s one of them. I don’t know; can you see that one there?
Guy Lawrence: Yep, I can see that.

Lyn McLean: And I know that you had that at both your places. And what that will do; it will measure the fields for anything electrical. So, you can see exactly what you’ve go and that’s gonna help you make a decision about whether it’s too much or it’s OK.

But also you can see where it’s coming from. So, is it coming from the power lines out in the front, in which case, you know, there are some decisions you might make, or is it coming from the water pipe, in which case you’d do something completely different. Or is it coming from some appliance, in which case you could just move it further away from you. It’s trying to reduce your exposure.
So, what you put in place will depend on what you’re actually exposed to.

Guy Lawrence: Got it. Absolutely.

Stuart Cooke: So, when thinking about moving from, kind of, EMF now to more RF and radiation, your thoughts on mobile phones? You know, everyone now is; most people have a mobile phone and they’re certainly not going away. What are your thoughts? Are they safe?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. . .

Sorry; Guy?

Guy Lawrence: I was still; my head’s still thinking about the mobile phone comment you made five minutes ago and I’m just sort of like sitting here. But, sorry, carry on.

Lyn McLean: Are the safe? Well, no one can say that mobile phones are safe. Not our government, not our mobile phone manufacturers. Nobody can say they’re safe. And the reason for that is that there’s actually quite a lot of evidence that they’re not.

Now, I talked about the sperm studies a little while ago and I mentioned the brain tumor studies. But there are number of big research projects around the world that have actually found increased risks. So, I mentioned a name. There was one called the Interphone Study, and that had 13 countries from around the world take part in it and Australia was one of those countries.

And what it found was that for the people who used mobile phones the most, there was an increased risk of glioma brain tumors. Now, if you juggle the results around a little bit; juggle the statistics as the researchers did, they found that there was, for people who were the long-term mobile phone users, there was actually double the risk of gliomas. So, that is a bit of a concern.

And there’s another whole group of studies from Sweden, and what they’re finding is a similar sort of thing: that for long-term users, so I’m really now talking about people who use a mobile phone or a cordless phone for 10 years or more, that they have double the risk of gliomas and acoustic neuromas.

So, that’s a little bit scary, isn’t it? Because keep in mind that a lot of this research was done years ago when people didn’t use mobile phones as much as they do now.
Stuart Cooke: Sure.

Guy Lawrence: Everyone’s got one. I mean, I’m instantly thinking about my phone in my front pocket, like a couple of inches away from my crown jewels, basically. And that’s not; that can’t be a good thing, I’m guessing, then, because. . .

Lyn McLean: Yeah. Well, that’s right. And if you carry your phone on your body, then that radiation is going into your body as you’re carrying it, if it’s turned on.

Guy Lawrence: Because a lot of females will carry it, obviously, in a handbag and things like that and it’s keeping them slightly away from the body. But us guys, I mean. . .

Lyn McLean: Yeah, well, that’s right. But what we have is; and I’ll come back to that in a sec, Guy. But what we have is a lot of women carrying their mobile phones in their bras now, or in a breast pocket, and that’s a real concern because there’s a study in America that’s actually looked at a number of women who carried their mobile phones in their bras and they developed breast tumors. But these tumors are located in the exact position of the areas of their phones. And I’m talking about women in their early ’20s who have had mastectomies. And they didn’t have a genetic background that would predispose them to this. So, you have to ask: Is it the mobile phone?

We even have guys who are developing breast cancer where they carry their mobile phone in their breast pocket. So, yeah, I think it is a big problem. And one of the messages from this is: Keep your mobile phone away from your body. Now, if you have to carry it next to your body, we have a little sock; a radiation sock you can put your phone into and that will stop the signal going through into your body.

Guy Lawrence: So, do you use a mobile phone yourself, Lyn?

Lyn McLean: No. I don’t have one.

Guy Lawrence: Because, you know, it’s a part of my daily life; Stu’s. I’m mean, we run an Internet business and I’m on the phone all the time. I mean, what precautions can we take? You mentioned the sock. Would, like, wearing these headphones and then talking through a mobile phone help?

Lyn McLean: Well, the key thing is to keep the mobile phone away from you when it’s turned on. So, if you’re using it, don’t hold it right up against your head because that’s when radiation is being absorbed into your head. So, even if you hold it out a little bit, or you put one of those socks that I was mentioning. . .

Guy Lawrence: So, I could put it on Speaker and then maybe hold it hear and listen? That’s a lot better?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. Absolutely. Talk on; or, put your mobile phone down on the table and speak so you’re not holding it in your hand. Just anything that you can do to minimize your exposure. So, for example, using a corded landline phone if you can. You know, if you’re making those calls from home, then use that. Spending less time on your mobile phone, ringing people on their home phone or their work phone as opposed to their mobile phone. There are lots of things you can do to reduce that exposure.

Stuart Cooke: What about using a mobile phone in a car. Now, most new cars are equipped with hands-free Bluetooth devices. And, of course, most people yabber away when they’re driving. And it passed the time, for one. What are your thoughts on that?

Lyn McLean: Well, a couple of things are problem with that. One is that there is research now that people who talk on a mobile phone when they’re driving drive just as well as somebody who’s been drink-driving. And that’s not from holding the phone against their head; it’s just from talking on the phone. So, in other words, having the mobile phone and even using speaker function, can still affect people’s driving performance. And, obviously, it makes them worse drivers and increases the risk of accidents. So, that’s one thing.

But in terms of what you’re actually exposing yourself to, people are being exposed to radiation when the phone is operating in the car for a number of reasons. If you’ve got Bluetooth, then Bluetooth is a form of wireless radiation. So, you’re actually exposed to the radiation from that system. And we certainly get people who report that they can’t tolerate to be in cars that have got Bluetooth in them and have to get those systems disabled.

The other thing is, even if you didn’t have Bluetooth in the car and you just have your mobile phone turned on in the car, what the car is; you think of as a metal shell. That’s going to be reflecting that signal, amplifying that signal, passing it all around the car. And that means everybody there is getting exposed.

Now, again, we have people who, if somebody has a mobile phone even turned on in the car. . . So, I’m not talking about making a phone call, now, but just the phone is turned on. They get sick. And I talked to a woman a week or so ago who said her children got into the car and forgot to turn their mobile phones off and she said that was just the end of her. She spent a week in bed as a result of just that one exposure.

Stuart Cooke: Wow.
Guy Lawrence: I mean, is it; are there any preventative measures we can do whilst in the car to be able to use the phone in the car?

Stuart Cooke: Turn your phone off, by the sounds of it.

Guy Lawrence: But, again, it’s something that I certainly do and a lot of people do. Would opening the windows help or anything like that, or is it just something: avoid; don’t do.

Lyn McLean: Yeah, there’s a lot of advice about not using mobile phones in metal shells and things like lifts and cars. So, really, anything you can do to reduce that exposure is a good thing.

Stuart Cooke: What about external aerials, Lyn, for your car? I mean, it’s almost taking us back a few years when mobiles were just; were the next big thing. Lots of cars had external aerials and you used to plug your phone into that. Would that make a difference?

Lyn McLean: Yeah, that’s a good thing to use. But you want to make sure your aerial is not in the position where your children sit or your baby sits.

Stuart Cooke: Right. OK.

Guy Lawrence: You mentioned Bluetooth. Bluetooth headsets. And, I’m assuming, that can’t be good.

Lyn McLean: Well, that’s right. That’s just replacing one form of wireless radiation with another form of wireless radiation, so it’s a; why use that system? There are better systems that you can use. For example, there are headsets, airtube headsets, that don’t have that wireless radiation.

Guy Lawrence: That’s staggering. I’m glad I ride a motorbike a lot. So I don’t have to deal with any of that. But I still keep my phone in my pocket when I’m riding.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, just slip your mobile in your helmet when you ride and I think you’ll be fine.

Guy Lawrence: Some of the helmets, now, well they have Bluetooth in there so you connect your phone and chat away while you’re riding a motorbike.

Stuart Cooke: Well, we know what to get you for Christmas.

Lyn McLean: If he comes to work with a headache, you’ll know why, Stuart.
Stuart Cooke: Well, when he comes to work, I get the headache!

Guy Lawrence: All right. Well, what we said about mobile phones, then, the first thing I think: What about kids? Every kid has mobile phone now. Smartphones, playing games, iPads. What are your thoughts on it? I mean, if it’s that?

Lyn McLean: Well, this is a real concern and there are lots of authorities around the world now who are saying: Reduce kids’ exposure to this radiation. And the advice was, from most of the authorities a few years back, was don’t let children under 16 use a mobile phone. Well, you know, I think that would be really hard to implement now, especially since schools are using them. But that was the advice based on the fact that there a risk for kids.

And there are reasons why kids are more vulnerable, and one is that their skulls are actually thinner. So that means that the radiation is being absorbed into their skull further. So, more of their brain is being affected than adults’ brains. So, remember the studies that have been done that I talked about earlier that were done on adults, and they found increased rates of brain tumors. Now we’re talking about kids who don’t have the protection in their skulls, who are absorbing more radiation, and using them at a younger age. So, what is going to happen to them in 10 years’ time? We don’t know, but in 10 years’ time we’re going to find out. And if; I think all of the people aren’t going to like the answers.

Kids have got a potential lifetime of exposure to us, so, unless us, who were probably mature when we started to use mobile phones, these kids might be using them for not 20, 30, or 40 but maybe 50, 60, 70 years. Now, if there’s a long-term effect of exposure, which the studies are indicating, then what’s going to happen to them in that amount of time?

In fact, people who have been using their phones for 20, 30 years would now be 70 or 80 at that time and it maybe doesn’t matter. But it does if you’re going to only be 40 in 30 years’ time.

Stuart Cooke: Crikey. So, I’m guessing, you know, for all the parents out there that pass on the iPhone for their kids to play the games, Flight Mode, I guess, if you’ve got a smartphone. That would be a precaution. How safe is the phone in Flight Mode? Are we good to go and can happily play with it?

Lyn McLean: In some cases, that’s enough, but in some cases you actually have to turn the wireless because there still can be a signal in Flight Mode. So, yeah, use Flight Mode but turn the wireless off.

But the thing that I’m concerned about is the whole idea of giving kids mobile phones as toys. You’re setting up the expectation in kids that this is something that’s OK to play with.

What I’m saying is that mobile phones; children shouldn’t be using mobile phones, or exposed to mobile phone radiation, unnecessarily. So, if you’re going to see this device as something it’s OK to play with, and Mummy and Daddy says it’s OK for me to play with it, then that’s going to set up that expectation that they can spend a lot of time on it, playing games, as they get older.

Now, that means that, of course, they’re being exposed to more radiation as they do. But it’s also setting up patterns of addiction and you don’t have to look very hard on the Internet to see that there are real problems with young people being addicted to this sort of technology. And there are clinics overseas that are treating people as young as 4 with Internet addiction.
Stuart Cooke: It’s interesting. And, I guess, not to mention, as well, the use of mobile phones affects the way that we communicate and are able to kind of integrate ourselves into communities and conversations, because we’re using to doing it all on the little device.

Guy Lawrence: This just seems such a serious matter, and yet, you know, the media doesn’t seem to cover it much. You hear random studies, but it’s almost made out as if it’s just pulling things out of the sky as if it’s not real, it’s not happening, it’s not there. And it gets swept under the carpet very quickly, really.

Lyn McLean: Well, that’s right. And one of the reasons for that is that the mobile phone industry advertises in the media so much, so for the media to take up this story might threaten a lucrative source of income.

So, in the end, I think it does get back to money. Because look who’s profiting from this. You’ve got the mobile phone companies. The government’s making a fortune from the sale of mobile phones. The media is making a lot of money from promoting this sort of technology. So, there’s a lot of information going out about, “Use me, use me, use me, use me.” And people aren’t necessarily having the balance of information about, well, yes, there is actually a risk. And, as I said, a lot of authorities are warning to be really careful with this technology, especially if they’re kids.

Stuart Cooke: Absolutely. And I guess, even with the manuals that you receive when you buy the mobile phone now, if you actually read the fine print, you will be told to hold the phone away from your ear so that they’re covering themselves, but who does that? We certainly don’t do that.

Lyn McLean: That’s right. That’s right. And because the mobile phones are getting smaller and thinner, the aerials are getting closer to people’s brains, too. So, it’s alarming for me.

Just going back to the question of kids, one of my concerns is that kids don’t have the information to make informed choices. So, I can monitor the Internet or we can find out information about the safety of this technology, but what 3- or 4-year-old or 10- or 12-year-old is going to do that and make a decision about should they be using it and how should they be using it.

For example, I have one Year 11 girl that I know who carries her phone in her bra, as we talked about before, and who didn’t know anything about the risks of that.

Stuart Cooke: No, it’s interesting. Thinking along those lines, you know, the parents the children, well, safety in the kitchen: “Don’t touch the oven; it’s hot. Don’t touch the knifes; they’re sharp.” But, of course, we have these external factors that are potentially much more damaging but we haven’t got any kind of guidelines there as to how to use them safely.

Lyn McLean: Well, that’s right. And that’s where it comes back again, to measuring. Because this is another of the measures that we have. You can see that there.

Stuart Cooke: That’s better; yeah.

A wall is made. So, you can actually hold that near a phone and it will pick up the signal and it will show you how strong the signal is and how far it extends. And I measured the phone that a young boy, he was in Year 7 so he’d be about 12, his phone, the other day, and, boy, it was really; you know, it was unbelievable.

Stuart Cooke: Off the scale.

Lyn McLean: Yeah. That’s right. And you have to be concerned about kids’ holding that. . .
Guy Lawrence: I think the problem is, well, this information is overwhelming. I mean, just sitting here talking to you and listening to the problems with it. You start to think and then you start to think, like you mentioned baby monitors, you mentioned kids; people using the mobile phone. I mean, we have a hard enough time dealing with the food industry and the way that’s going and actually trying to say our piece about it. And, you know, it’s another thing to think about.

Stuart Cooke: What about cordless home phones, then? What are your thoughts on that? I know they’re a convenient product where we can wander around and gasbag any room in the house.

Lyn McLean: That’s right. Well, the bad news is, cordless phones might be even worse than mobile phones. So much of the research that we’ve talked about so far has been done on mobile phones, but the same thing applies, then, more to cordless phones for these reasons. The cordless phone has actually got two elements. There’s the handset and there’s the base. Now, that base, in many cases, is transmitting 24-7. So, people don’t even know that as it’s sitting there beside their bed or on their desk or wherever it might be, it’s still sending out quite a high signal.

So, that’s just the base. In addition to that, they’ve got the handset. So, when you hold the handset of the cordless phone against your head, your brain is absorbing radiation in just the same way that it would be from a mobile phone, but maybe even more because a lot of cordless phones don’t have adaptive power control. So, they don’t power down the signal. In other words, it’s fairly high-power.

Now, we know that a cordless phone is going to be reasonably high-power because it’s going to transmit a signal from over here to right over there, where the base is, on the other side of the house. So, in fact, you’re getting this exposure from both sections and people, in addition, tend to use their home phone more than they do their mobile phone. So, a lot of people have gotten the message that mobiles are a bit dangerous and they’re dealing with that by going home and using their home phone, not realizing that it’s actually radiating just like their mobile phone is. And that they’re being exposed if they do that.

And, in addition to that, if that’s your home phone, then what about when your kids start making phone calls? They’re using a radiating device as a past.

Guy Lawrence: So, can we use corded phones; phones with a cord? Yeah, a corded phone has none of that problem, so it’s a much safer option.
Stuart Cooke: OK, so that was the alternative then. Because, obviously, everyone uses a phone.

Lyn McLean: That’s right. That’s the best thing. And with cordless phones you can be aware of the fact that this thing is giving out radiation, probably 24-7, and where you locate it, because I had a situation once where I went into a home and I measured the radiation coming from a cordless phone, and it was really high. And it was going right through the wall onto the bed, into the bedroom of a young girl; the daughter of the house. So, the mum hadn’t realized that it was actually radiating here as she slept, because it seemed that it was in a different room. But that happens.

Stuart Cooke: I can’t even imagine the strength of these, because we’re corded now. And prior to that, we had a cordless phone. And I remember walking down the street with it trying to test the range, and, you know, I got halfway down the road and still had a strong signal on this phone pressed to my head and thought it was the best thing in the world.

Lyn McLean: Yes. That’s right.

Stuart Cooke: But of course, perhaps, it wasn’t so grateful, but we’ve since learned otherwise and now gone to a corded and feel much happier about that as well.

Lyn McLean: Good on you. Well, I think people have to remember that the word “coverage” and the word “signal strength” really actually meant radiation. So, if the manufacturer is promoting “great coverage” or its fantastic signal strength or whatever it is, then you can interpret that as, oh, well, I’m going to get quite exposed from this technology.

Stuart Cooke: Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Just going slightly off topic, Lyn, you mentioned the bedroom. I guess the best bet is just to turn everything off, I’m guessing.

Lyn McLean: Yeah. Yeah. And to keep things away from your bed, because if you’ve got this technology on your bedside table at nighttime as lots of people have, then you’re being exposed to it as sleep, and that’s the very time that you want to be least exposed, because it’s as you sleep that you’re bodies. . .

Stuart Cooke: Because I know a lot of mates that will use mobile phone for their alarm clock as well.

Lyn McLean: Yes, yes.

Stuart Cooke: I mean, I still do that but I put it on Airplane Mode, so I’m assuming it’s not searching; not that it’s next to my head or anything. But still. I’m assuming that would be another preventative measure you could take?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. That’s a much better option, and for kids, the advice is to keep the mobile phone out of the bedroom, because we get a lot of situations where children are sleeping with their mobile phone under their pillow, even, so that they can hear the call as it comes in at nighttime or feel the call, and they can respond to it.

So, apart from the fact that they’re irradiating themselves, they’re actually losing sleep and that’s affecting their school performance, and there’s quite a bit now about that side of the problem, too, that it’s affecting kids’ schoolwork.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Lots to learn, I think.

So, moving from mobile phones and over onto wifi, now, what are your thoughts on wifi; home wifi networks, which, of course, make it easy and convenient for us to access the Internet with our iPads and laptops everywhere over, you know, in the house. How does that compare to, perhaps, the signals coming into a mobile phone and what should we do about wifi?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. A wifi modem has actually got quite a strong signal. So, if you have your modem next to, say it’s on your desk as you work at your computer, you’re being exposed to a very high signal as you sit there and work. If you’ve got your wifi modem near a bed, maybe on the other side of the wall from them bed, the same thing applies. So, that’s one way that you’re being exposed from the modem.

But then you’re being exposed from the technology that you use as well. So, whether it’s your laptop computer or your iPad that you mentioned, or some other device, that’s actually sending out a microwave signal as well. So, you’re getting a double whammy.

Now, you can measure quite high exposures in a house from this technology. And, in fact, people have got so much technology that you’d be surprised how high the signals can actually be. So, that’s inevitable when you use those systems.

Now, if you want to prevent that, there are a number of things that you can do, and you can go to various extremes depending on how precautionary you want to be. First of all, you can use corded connections. And if you use cords and wires, you’ve got none of that wireless; providing you turn the wireless off, of course. You’re still getting the benefits of the technology. You can still download stuff. You can still play games. But you’re doing it in a much safer way.

Now, if people don’t want to do that, they don’t want to go that far, anything you can do to minimize wireless exposure is really important. So, for example, turning the wifi off when you’re not using it. Maybe downloading, for people who like to watch movies or play games or something like that on the technology, downloading it first and then turning the wireless off as you’re actually using the game or watching the movie.
So, a lot of it comes back to common sense. Just realize that if you’re sitting in front of this thing, and it’s a wifi device that’s using the wifi modem, then you’re being exposed and so are the other people.

Guy Lawrence: So, I’m just thinking, because, I’m in my unit, right? And now I’ve moved my wifi after talking to you a few weeks ago, because that was about a foot from my leg when I was working in the day, and I’ve moved it to the other side of the unit, out of the way. But obviously the wifi is still on during the day. I turn it off at night, or when I go out, I just turn the wifi off; it’s not there. But am I actually moving around in a microwave oven because the wifi is on, or is it not so; does it affect is that much? Even though the router is 10 meters from me?

Because I’ll turn my mobile phone on when I’m in Coogee or in the street and it picks up 20 networks of wifi that are buzzing around. So, obviously, if the phone’s picking up I’m being exposed to it.

Stuart Cooke: You have to create a hat, Guy, out of tinfoil, like a Viking’s hat but tinfoil. And I’ve read that they’re quite effective.

Guy Lawrence: That could work, yeah.

Lyn McLean: Yeah, seriously, I do have people contacting me who have had to go to those extremes like shielding themselves or their homes to stop those signals coming in because they’re so badly affected by it. So, it is a concern.

In terms of the router, the further away from you it is, the less you’re exposed to it. But the fact is that you’re still getting some. And the problem is, well, how much is OK? And that’s the difficulty because we don’t really. . .

Guy Lawrence: We can’t really measure that, can we?

Lyn McLean: We can measure it, yes.

Guy Lawrence: But how much, the limit; how much is OK? How much is not?

Lyn McLean: That’s right. Well, you know, you’d like to think, well, it complies with the standard. That should be OK. But the standard’s actually not protecting people from this sort of use. It’s only protecting against short-term acute heating effects. So, it’s not protecting against long-term, continuous, non-heating effects, which is what we’re talking about. So, for people who are using this technology hours a day, every day, all their lifetime, essentially, it’s not protecting against that.

And there’s a survey done recent that’s showing that people are spending up to 16 hours a day now using this technology. So, that’s a lot of exposure. So, it might be lower-power, but you multiple that by time, if that makes sense. So, it’s a cumulative exposure.

Guy Lawrence: You mention shielding, Lyn. What; can you elaborate on that, please?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. For the high-frequency, the wireless technology that we’re talking about now, if people want to block that signal, what they can do is they can put a shielding paint in place. So, we have a shielding paint. You pat it on the wall and it will block the signal that’s coming through from outside. So, you can actually create a little safe haven if you want to do that.

And, often, people do that only when they’re experiencing symptoms like we have on a lot of people from Victoria who had SmartMeters installed and have experienced all sorts of very unpleasant symptoms. And they very often block the signal. They put it on the side of the house where their meter box is and that stops the signal coming through from the SmartMeter.

Guy Lawrence: From your experience, Lyn, just all these questions keep popping in; sorry.

Lyn McLean: Oh, it’s great.

Guy Lawrence: If a person is healthier, can they withstand the exposure more, as if to somebody that might be already ill; say they’re fighting a disease of some kind. They might be chronically sick. And then they’re exposed to this. Do you think they would be more sensitive to the exposure?

Lyn McLean: I am talking about my experience now and talking about the conversations that I’ve had with people who are dealing with the condition of electromagnetic sensitivity; the researchers around the world who have dealt with that. And, yes, that does seem to be the case. And when you look at the research that is being conducted, the mainstream research, it’s showing that there’s a very big difference in how different organisms respond to EMR. And it would depending on the way that the signal is; whether it goes this way or it goes that way. The genetic background of the animals or the cells that are being exposed. The health or condition of those animals.

So, there are a lot of factors that will affect the way that people respond, and that’s why in a family of, say, four or five people, you might get one person who’s affected badly by this technology and nobody else. It’s a very individual response.

Guy Lawrence: So, what about the wifi in schools? Because I know that gets installed now. I mean, it’s another problem outside of mobile phones. I guess the question has already been answered.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, schools are very proud, aren’t they, to present this. “You know, we’ve installed wifi all over now and all of our children are happily using wireless tablets now to do their sums.” Surely that would be a concern.

Lyn McLean: This is a concern for a number of reasons. Now, you remember I said that there’s a high field that comes from the router. So, let’s think about where this router might be. You know, maybe it’s by the teacher’s desk or maybe it’s by a particular student’s desk. Maybe it’s working at very high power.

I had one teacher who rang up and said that he couldn’t work with this wifi. He couldn’t have it. He couldn’t be in the classroom where it was. And in this school, it was very high-power because it had to get from one classroom through to another classroom through this cement and concrete floor. So, it had to really have a lot of power to be able to do that. In other words, the signal was strong and the amount of radiation that people were being exposed to was high.

So, you have that. But in addition to that, you have all these kids using this technology, where they are exposed to their technology and the person beside them’s technology and around her.

Now, they are really, basically, just sitting in a little microwave oven. It’s a concern, because we’re experimenting on children. And I don’t know, really, that any ethics committee would allow that, you know? An experiment.

But we’ve got young kids now that are in infant school that are being exposed to this technology when we haven’t even demonstrated that it’s safe for adults. Why would we do this to our kids? Why would we take that risk?

As I said, I’ve got; I mentioned that one teacher. There are actually quite a few teachers who’ve contacted me. Some of them had to give up work because they can’t work in a school with wifi in it. We have a principal who’s resigned because she can’t be in the school because of the wifi.

There are schools overseas pulling out their wifi systems because kids become sick.

It’s a very big risk, I think, and my question is: What happens if this exposure affects kids and they become sick down the track? Will we see litigation against the education departments? And I think that’s a real possibility.

Stuart Cooke: Where standards are concerned, Lyn, how does Australia fare to the likes of Europe, say, for instance?

Lyn McLean: Well, there are international standards that the World Health Organization; our body as connected to the World Health Organization has put in place. And a lot of countries around the world use those standards, and Australia’s standards are pretty much in line with those standards, too. So, they’re very consistent with the majority standards.

In Europe, because there’s been so much concern about the risks of this technology, a lot of countries have put in additional layers of precaution. So, they’ve put in either standards or guidelines or something like that that say, well, we don’t really want people to be exposed to it so much.

And I think that that’s a way of helping to address these concerns.

What I think is really important is that people start to apply these precautions in their own homes and in workplaces. That’s a starting point. You can actually do; if we wait for governments to change status we’ll be very long, I think.

Stuart Cooke: We’ll be around forever.

Guy Lawrence: When you talk about precautions, as well, another question I wanted to cover was the mention of there’s a lot of products out there now that are claiming they can harmonize or neutralize the wifi; the mobile phone. I mean. . . What’s your thought on that?

Lyn McLean: This is a concern, because a lot of people will say: Look, I’ve stuck this on my phone or I’ve that on my phone or I’ve stuck it on my wifi so I’m safe. And, in fact, that’s not necessarily the case at all, because if you measure; if you get a device that measures the radiation, and you measure with one of those stickers or whatever it might be, stuck onto the mobile phone, you take it off and you measure again, the amount of radiation is identical. So, these devices are not making any difference whatsoever to the amount of radiation that we are exposed to.

They don’t even claim to do that. They claim to harmonize. Now, what does that actually mean? We don’t know what that means. It doesn’t; there’s no scientific way that can explain what these devices might be doing. If they’re doing anything, it’s in a way that we can neither understand, nor measure. And that means to me that we’re taking a risk by using them.

It’s much better, in my opinion, to use conventional precautions that can be demonstrated to work; that can be measured to work. Because then you know that you actually are protected and you’re not taking that risk.
Guy Lawrence: Because the problem is, as well, obviously, the education’s not here. I mean, from chatting to you we learn it first and we’re starting to be proactive about it. But the reality is, a lot of people are going to take it: “Oh, I’ll buy a new mobile case for it and that reflects the signal or I’ll stick something on the back or wear something around the neck” and just assuming they’re doing the right thing.

Lyn McLean: Exactly. But if they do that and then continue to use the technology and think, “I’m safe. I’m safe, so I can talk on it for a long amount of time,” then they could be at more risk than if they. . . took no precautions.

[phone rings]

Lyn McLean: Excuse me. I forgot to turn that off.

Stuart Cooke: It’s good to hear the call of a landline. The proof was in the pudding.

I’ve got a question, Lyn, and you touched on it a little earlier: baby monitors. Now, should we be wary of these products? After everything that you’ve told us I think, crikey, that would be the last thing that I want to use now. But how about all our friends out there that are actively using them and feeling safe by doing do?

Lyn McLean: Well, “feeling safe”; isn’t that an irony, because these devices are actually giving out high levels of magnetic fields or wireless radiation are measured; in fact, there are several baby monitors in the cot where the baby slept and the fields were so high that when the mother actually saw it, they picked up the device and took it out and threw it in the bin.

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Lyn McLean: So, we’re putting these things next to babies whose brains are just newly hatched where they haven’t had a chance to develop, where their skulls are thin, where they’re very, very vulnerable. And we’re exposing them to really high fields.

Now, I’ve to go ask whether that’s really protecting them at all. And, again, we’re talking about long-term cumulative effects.

Now, if I could step back a bit from the baby monitors, there are a couple of studies now that have looked at pregnant women using mobile phones and the scientists have found that if you monitor the behavior and the performance of those kids when they’re 7; that is 7 years after that exposure, these kids have got more behavioral problems or performing worse in schools than kids whose mothers didn’t use a mobile phone.

In other words, it can take a long time for effects to show up. So, if we’re exposing these babies, we might have to wait seven years, eight years, but it could be affecting their academic performance down the track.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Interesting thought.

Lyn McLean: And, again, we don’t know but it’s question of precaution. How much risk do you want to. . .

Stuart Cooke: I think that’s just it. We just don’t know, do we? A little bit like the cigarette industry in the early days. We didn’t know, you know. Cigarettes were even claimed to have health benefits.

Lyn McLean: Absolutely. That’s right. Yeah. And there’s a story that Sir Richard Doll, who’s the guy who made the connection between smoking and lung cancer, and the Health Department actually told him not to let his results out to the general public because that might cause alarm. That was back in the ’50s.

Stuart Cooke: Wow. I can just picture the packaging, then, in 20 years’ time, on my new mobile phone that I buy. Crikey. With these horrible pictures on the side.

Lyn McLean: Well, yep, we don’t know, do we?

Guy Lawrence: No, we don’t.

Lyn McLean: And I think it all boils down to how much risk do you want to take? Now, this is a question of society and we’re grappling with it every day as parents make choices about what sort of food to feed their children or whether to put a fence around their pool or, you know, to strap their child in a car seat or use seatbelts. All the time, we’re making decisions about precaution and safety, and this is just something else that we need to address. But people have to be aware that it’s critical.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, absolutely.

Stuart Cooke: Well, I think they do. And I think you can; you don’t have to scared by this. I mean, after speaking to you, as a family, we have made certain changes, and they’re by no means radical. I mean, we tested our apartment. We moved our positioning of beds. We went to corded phone. I use a plug-in, wired Internet now. So, our wifi is gone. And I use my speakers at all times on my mobile phone. And, while carrying it, I bought a little shield. So, if I have to slide it in my pocket, I’ve got this going now. And I feel like I’m doing, you know, to the best of my abilities to try and stay on top of this.

So it’s, you know, by no means kind of radical stuff, but just small changes.

Lyn McLean: Well, that’s quite right and sometimes it’s just a question of moving something from here to there. And I mentioned a story to you before where we had a woman who had depression and sleep apnea and she was on medication for those, and her husband had problems with depression, too. And she heard me speaking about the meter box having high electromagnetic fields, and she decided that she’d do a little experiment. She moved the bed from right beside the meter box up the wall a little bit; just a little bit further away. And she found that her depression cleared up, her sleep apnea cleared up, her husband’s depression cleared up, and they didn’t need medication anymore.

So, it didn’t cost her anything to do that and rang me up after about three weeks because she wanted to make sure that the changes lasted, and they did.

Stuart Cooke: It’s small things, isn’t it?

Lyn McLean: Exactly.

Stuart Cooke: I guess it’s just being aware. I found a high magnetic field on the floor where I previously slept from a light fitting to the foyer of a block of units downstairs. And that was, you know, very high. But a meter to the left or right of that, those levels dropped significantly, and I sleep better now.

Lyn McLean: So, you moved your bed in order to. . .

Stuart Cooke: I just moved my bed. Yep. Moved it to the other side of the wall, and that’s all I did. And it’s made a world of difference. But it’s just knowing.

Guy Lawrence: I’ve got one last question for you, Lyn, before we wrap up. Microwave ovens. Somebody mentioned them on Facebook the other day as well. I haven’t used one since I immigrated, like, seven years ago. But what are your thoughts on them?

Lyn McLean: Well, microwaves are really interesting because they’ve got a number of problems that, first of all, they change the chemical composition of food. But leaving that aside, because that’s not to do with radiation, they have several fields. They have a high magnetic field that’s just because they’re an electrical appliance. So, if you have your microwave oven sitting on the bench and not doing anything, not cooking any food, the chances are it’s giving out a high magnetic field and you can measure that.

But when you put the food in it and you turn it on, it starts to cook, the magnetic field generally goes very. So, in fact, you would want to keep quite a distance away from it when it’s cooking, just to be out of that magnetic field.

In addition to that, it’s also got the microwaves that cook the food. Now, microwave ovens are allowed to legally leak a little bit of microwave radiation, and in some it’s a little bit more than others, depending on how secure the door seals are. So, you can measure the microwave radiation from these as well. Sometimes, as it’s starting to escape, it can be quite high in even the room adjacent to the microwave.

Guy Lawrence: See, you wouldn’t want to be leaning over, staring through the glass to see if your milk’s gonna boil.

Lyn McLean: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you definitely want to keep a distance from them, but I would say check them, too. Measure to see whether you’ve got any microwave leakage or too much microwave leakage.

Stuart Cooke: Crikey.

Guy Lawrence: There you go. I’ve never liked those things anyway. I’m all for that one.

Stuart Cooke: It sounds like you’re living in a microwave oven with a wifi network. I’ll surely not be visiting anytime soon.

Guy Lawrence: It’s just to keep you out, mate.

Stuart Cooke: Well, it’s working.

Guy Lawrence: Lyn, thanks very much for joining us today. It’s been awesome. My God, I’m going to have to take stock of all this information myself.

If anyone wants to learn more, EMR Australia, the website, would be the best place to contact for you?

Lyn McLean: Yep. Certainly.

Guy Lawrence: And then, obviously, you can provide all the necessary information if they’ve got more questions and things like that.

Stuart Cooke: And also, Guy, not to forget the book as well; Lyn’s fantastic book called The Force, which I’ve read and I think I’m gonna read it again. It just really does kind of just enforce all these little pockets of knowledge that I think are so empowering. So, if people wanted to purchase the book, Lyn, whereabouts could they do that?

Lyn McLean: They could do that through our website. Can I just share, also, excuse me as I lean over, that what we do with the kids, because having talking about the risks of this radiation for kids: Wireless-wise Kids, which is actually, and if you can see it there; I think we’re getting a bit of reflection from the blinds, but it’s got beautiful illustrations by an Australian artist, Janet Selby, and it’s quite easy to understand. So, kids can understand, but also the parents get a lot.

Stuart Cooke: I’ve purchased a copy of that as well and we went over that as a family, so we’ll put that information on the website for the viewers, too.

Guy Lawrence: Absolutely. Fantastic.

Thank you for your time, Lyn. That was mind-blowing.

Lyn McLean: Thank you very much. I appreciate you talking to me about this issue. I think it’s a really important one and I’m glad you’ve given us the chance to speak.

Guy Lawrence: We do, too. Thank you again.

Lyn McLean: Thank you. It’s my pleasure. Have a lovely day.

Guy Lawrence: Cheers. Thank you.

Stuart Cooke: Goodbye.

 

Exercise less & lose more weight (part II): The best exercises for weight loss

best_exercise_for_weight_loss

By Guy Lawrence

“If you motivate an idiot, they just do stupid things faster… Education is key!” – Unknown

Last week I told my mate he needed to exercise less to improve his health and lose more weight. If you have no idea what I’m on about, read this post first (part 1) before going on. I asked him if he liked the idea of exercising 1 hour a week instead of 1 hour a session. He did…

I’d finally started to make some inroads with his way of thinking. He could see that to gain success with weight loss, it needed to be a byproduct of living a healthy lifestyle. Not living for weight loss and hoping he’d become healthy. A subtle difference but an extremely important one.

I love exercise, I do it most days. I always look for ways at how it can be fun yet challenging, and for me it can be extremely rewarding too. But weight loss is the last thing on my mind, and I wanted to hammer it home for my mate too.

He asked me what/why exercises he should be doing and this is what I said…

His Goals: Health, fat loss & muscle tone

All of the above were my mates goals. For him to achieve this, contrary to popular belief, I believe more exercise is not necessarily better. The key is the quality of the exercise, not the quantity. The way I see it, jogging forever on the treadmill or spending hours lifting weights is not the way forward to achieve what he wanted (or anyone for that matter). And now he was wanting to know the best exercises for weight loss.

There’s a great saying – If you motivate an idiot, they just do stupid things faster…Education is key!

Not saying my mate is an idiot, but simply getting him pumped up and throwing on his trackies and running shoes isn’t necessarily the way forward.

Let’s take a look at his goals:

1) Health

I believe one of the biggest players when it comes to overall health is sleep. I don’t care how well you eat or exercise, if you don’t sleep well on a regular basis you are still going to go backwards.

We now know from the last post, another factor of his health will come from what he eats daily. I also believe the other major player in health is to stimulate the release of human growth hormone (HGH) on a regular basis. (this also ties in with sleep as well as exercise) This is like opening a parachute on ageing and slowing the whole process down, increasing vitality and preventing muscle wastage. (I wrote a post called The fountain of youth if you want to learn more about HGH).

Human Growth Hormone

What’s the best way to produce HGH? Short bursts of significant exertion along with brief rest periods. Rowing, cycling, sprinting  and even yoga are all good. But using weights &/or kettlebells are excellent. These can challenge the muscles very quickly in very few sets. The great thing about these exercises is that there are countless studies showing that they improve insulin sensitivity, prevent muscle wastage and actually lower insulin levels. This is a really cool thing because the less insulin you produce, the better your health and longevity. And remember, if insulin is present in the body, the body can’t burn body fat for fuel.

The other thing I wanted my mate to avoid was cortisol production. Long periods of excessive exercise has been shown to produce a lot of cortisol, which makes sense as it’s our primary stress hormone and exercise is a form of stress. Cortisol also raises blood sugar levels and is catabolic. In other words, it eats muscle and other tissue. So with long periods of exercise you can actually end up going backwards.

The one thing that really concerns me is that your heart is a muscle too, and it makes me wonder what excessive cortisol production would do to that.

2) Fat loss

Now what’s really really cool about shorter and more intense interval training is this: EPOC (excess post exercise oxygen consumption). It’s the after effect if you like from the short bit of hard work you did. I wanted my mate to have this so his afterburners are kicking in many hours after he’s exercised. This is a much more effective way for burning body fat long after he’s finished training. But this is where the food he eats is crucial. We don’t want to elevate blood sugars and create an insulin response. Remember, less insulin production, more body fat burnt… Did I say that already?

diet afterburners

The other thing that’s a must is incidental fitness. In other words walk everywhere. Take the stairs, park further away. Simply try to move daily as much as possible. Fat is the main fuel for low levels of aerobic activity, and as long you are not eating high carbohydrate foods and creating an insulin response you will steadily burn body fat. Doesn’t sound glamorous, but if you were to carry a pedometer around with you for a week you will soon see that it all adds up.

3) Muscle tone

It still amazes me how many people (you ladies especially) that think they are going to get big and bulky if they do some body weight exercises or weight training. Putting on size is a lot of hard work for guys, and almost impossible for girls.

Lets look at the facts. If you have 1kg of muscle and 1kg of fat side by side, the 1kg of muscle would be approximately 20% smaller. If you did a straight exchange for say 5kg of fat for 5kg of muscle, I assure you you would like the end result! Your body size would have decreased, body fat would be lower and you’d be left with a much more taut and firm body. Now who wouldn’t want that exchange?

MUscle vs Fat

Hot tip: Throw away your weighing scales and use clothing size for reference instead.

The best exercises for weight loss

So what’s the best exercise for weight loss? If you are like most people I’ve spoken to, then dropping the love handles and being healthy, lean and trim with some muscle definition is the usual response. And combining the above things I’ve mentioned will get you there (providing your nutrition is in check).

In a nutshell it’s short sharp bursts of exercise that will create an EPOC response for recovery, along with using those muscles to create HGH and muscle tone which will also further improve metabolism when recovering. Throw in daily incidental fitness everywhere you go and you will end up becoming a fat burning machine.

This all sounds well and dandy, but if you’ve been hunched over a computer for a year and the most energetic thing you’ve done is pull your pants up this morning, believe me, you’d be in a world of pain if you applied the above concepts straight off.

So what’s the key? Progression.

Scalable progressive exercise

The reality is, until I spend some time with my mate, I’m not sure whether he could do 20 air squats or 20 weighted squats (I could have a good guess though!). Sprint 10m or sprint 400m five times. Swing a KettleBell or knock himself out with it! But as you can see, all these exercises are scalable.  (I wrote a post a while ago on the benefits of a KettleBell swing and how to make it progressive. If you would like to do a KettleBell course, I can highly recommend AIK).

If there was one impression I wanted to leave with my mate with it was this: Start with what you feel is comfortable, it needn’t be more than 20-25min of exercise. Each session you should look to increase the intensity slowly by increasing the difficulty, but not the time. All he needed to do was ask himself how can I make this a little harder than last week? And then apply it. He would then be making his exercise regime progressive. Make sense?

An example of a workout for my mate would look something like this:-

4 rounds for time:

All these exercises are scalable and simply reducing the rest increases intensity too. My mate could knock this out in under 20min no problem. If he then looked to mix it up and varied it every time he did a workout he would have a much greater responce, as he will keep his body guessing. The choices are endless.

So what exercises apply to everyone else? It depends on whether you are a couch potato, weekend warrior or a supreme specimen of athleticism. But more or less the principles will remain the same.

Just remeber, if the most energetic thing you’ve done today is pull your pants up… Go slow to begin with!

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On a side note: I truly enjoy writing these posts, hence our frequent blog posts. At the end of the day though, these are just my thought’s and feelings around a topic I’m passionate about. I encourage everyone to do their own research and check out the facts for themselves.

If you did enjoy the post and got something from it or have something to share on the topic, I would love to hear your thought’s in the comments section below. If you feel others would benefit from this then it would be great if you could share it using one of the icons below (Facebook etc). Cheers, Guy…