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Probably the Most Amazing Example Of Endurance Athleticism You’ll Ever See!

The above video is 3:55 minutes long.

Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

meredith loringI have a new hero… and her name is Meredith Loring. If you need a big dose of inspiration and want to know what the human body is capable of with the right nutrition, mindset and training, then you really must watch this video!

Meredith, along with her husband Sami Inkinen rowed from San Francisco to Hawaii. The row took them 45 days straight, rowing up to 18 hours a day and yup, they did it with no sugar or gels.

We also cover her own incredible journey from dealing with cervical cancer, then switching to raw food and then the slow transition into a high-fat, low carb’ diet. All this along with achieving some of the most incredible accomplishments in the world of serious adventurous endurance sports.

Full Interview with Meredith Loring: Raw Food & High Fat Diet Fuelled For Inspiring Jaw Dropping Adventures



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In this episode we talk about:

  • Why her dealings with cervical cancer made her look at her nutrition closely
  • Why she embarked on two of her toughest athletic challenges of her life within 10 days of each other
  • The highs and lows of rowing 45 days straight from California to Hawaii
  • How she fuels her diet daily to perform
  • What her diet and exercise routine looks like whilst 8 months pregnant
  • And much much more…

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Full Transcript

Guy Lawrence: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence at 180 Nutrition and welcome to another episode of the Health Sessions. The one thing we are very proud here at 180 Nutrition is when we look for podcast guests, we search high and low for people that we feel will have something truly to offer with their stories, their journey, their inspiration, their health message, all around nutrition. You know, questions that we want to answer ourselves.

And I have to say today’s awesome guest, which is Meredith Loring, is certainly inspiring and I guarantee that you’re going to get a lot out of this today.

Now, if you’re wondering who Meredith is, we had her partner, Sami Inkinen, on the show last month and as a couple they rowed from San Francisco to Hawaii. The row took them 45 days straight, rowing up to 18 hours a day and yup, they did it with no sugar or gels.

Now, if you’ve heard Sami’s podcast, you’d probably know a little bit about the background. But if you haven’t, you’re in for an amazing treat in today’s podcast.

And not only that, Meredith’s own personal journey is phenomenal. She discusses how she contracted cervical cancer at a young age and how she then looked into nutrition to help combat these things and then come into, you could say, eating a higher-fat, low-carb diet and she’s an exceptional endurance athlete as well. And she’s heavily pregnant at the moment, eight months, ah, eight and a half month I think.

So, we cover all these topics from her perspective today and you know, whether you’re a guy or girl, listening to this, you will take absolutely a lot out this and even as a couple too.

As always, I know I ask, let us know these podcasts inspire you, if you’re enjoying them. What guests you’d like to see come up in the future. Simply leave us a review on iTunes. That would really be appreciated. You know, just by subscribing, helps us get the word out there; we’re determined to do it and I think this message should be heard by as many people as possible.

Drop us an email to: info@180nutrition.com.au., too and let us know your thoughts on the podcast and if they are affecting your life in a positive manner in any way. It would be great to hear from you.

And of course, go back to our website, 180nutrition.com.au, there’s a wealth of resources there too and also, of course, these are shot in video, if you are listening to this through iTunes.

Anyway, let’s go over to Meredith. You’re going to really enjoy this one. Cheers.

Stuart Cooke: Yes.

Guy Lawrence: I always get this feeling every time, you know, it’s like just before you go on.

Anyway, hi this is Guy Lawrence. I’m joined with Stuart Cooke today, as always. Hi Stuart.

Stuart Cooke: Hello mate.

Guy Lawrence: And our lovely guest today is Meredith Loring. Meredith, welcome to the show.

Meredith Loring: Thanks for having me.

Guy Lawrence: I hope I pronounced your surname correctly, as well. I just thought about that then, but I’m thinking I got it right.

Meredith Loring: Yeah. It rhymes with “boring,” as my husband likes to say.

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic. So, we’ve had your husband, Sami Inkinen, on the show. We’ve had moviemaker Donal O’Neill on the show. We were all talking about Cereal Killers 2.

And we actually just held a screening for the documentary here in Sydney a few weeks back and it was sold out. We had a Q & A and it was just an awesome response.

And the one thing that was evident, especially with the females after the show and everyone was buzzing, was: We want to hear more of Meredith’s side of the story. So, yeah, fantastic; so, thanks for coming on.

Meredith Loring: Who knows what they were saying when I wasn’t there.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

So, we always start the show to get a little bit about the guest’s background and things like that, so, if you could share a little bit about yourself, because I’m guessing you’re not from Finland, like Sami.

Meredith Loring: Not from Finland. I’m from the East Coast. A pretty normal background, I guess. But I guess what’s revenant, for you guys, is probably fitness and nutrition stuff.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: Absolutely.

Meredith Loring: And yes, so, I’ve been kind of a competitive athlete my whole life. I was a competitive gymnast until I was in high school and then I started running in my 20s and really latched on to running and trail running in particular and started competing in trail running when I got out to California about four years ago, which is when I met Sami, my husband. And then …

Guy Lawrence: I recently read as well, is it true that you guys went on your first date in a kayak?

Meredith Loring: Weirdly, weirdly enough our first date was in a doubles kayak and I’d just come from New York City, literally the day before, and for me any kind of active date was really weird, because in New York you’d meet for drinks or coffee. So, I was very weirded out by the whole thing and then he wanted to have a captive audience. So, he stuck me in a kayak for a couple of hours.

Guy Lawrence: That’s awesome. Fantastic.

Guy Lawrence: So, you’ve always been obviously a competitive, well, it looks like sports and athleticism has been in your blood from day dot. Because we’re going to talk about the row especially a little bit further on as well.

So, I’m guessing now, to see you go ahead and do that; was it a major shock for you to find yourself ending up in a boat or did you…

Meredith Loring: It was shocking, like the sport was shocking, because neither one of us had ever rowed before and actually neither one of us was into rowing at all. So, just the sport choice was fairly shocking, but we try to do kind of big adventurous stuff on a regular basis, nothing quite that adventurous.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. That’s huge, isn’t it?

Meredith Loring: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: Go for it Stu.

Stuart Cooke: You’re interested in, obviously, you come from an endurance sport background, as well. How much of your dietary beliefs have changed over the years from obviously the endurance stuff to the crazy endurance stuff in the boat that we’ve just heard about?

Meredith Loring: Yeah, that’s a good question. So, actually, when I was 24 I had cervical cancer and I started looking at, like, alternative treatments. I didn’t want to go down a chemo route. And so I kind of decided after looking into all of the research way back then, this was like 2004, that our nutrition guidelines were all fucked up, pardon my French and …

Guy Lawrence: That’s the best way of describing it.

Meredith Loring: And so, I had totally cut out sugar and carbs and stuff from my diet and I went on actually a raw food diet pretty strictly for about six or seven years.

Stuart Cooke: Okay.

Meredith Loring: And then when I met Sami I started introducing things like salmon and fish, but I’ve been fairly consistent about my diet since then, just because of my health concerns and then from all of the research that I read. And also, my body responds really well to plants and responds very poorly to sugar.

Guy Lawrence: So, even when you were, because it’s the first thing that springs to my mind, even when you were on a raw food diet so that your carb and sugar intake were quite low? Is that correct?

Meredith Loring: Yeah. I was not eating a lot of fruit. I was eating mostly vegetables and nuts and, like, avocados and things like that. Lots of olive oil, but very few fruits, maybe one piece of fruit a day or two max.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, because I think that’s the one common thing, mistake, I see, Whether it be raw food, vegetarian, vegan; everyone seems to have a hell of a lot of carbs.

Meredith Loring: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: One of the main things I read, counter to me wanting to go on a raw food eating plan, was all of the tooth decay that happens from most raw foodists because they’re eating so much fruit. So, I was really conscious of that from the beginning because I didn’t want that to happen.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. And how did the cancer go? What happened?

Meredith Loring: I’ve been cancer-free and completely healthy. So…

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Meredith Loring: I don’t know how much of that is due to my diet, but it certainly made me feel like I was having a hand in treating myself. And also, after I read all of these studies that you can’t go back eating the way you were eating before. It’s so just; it so grosses you out that you can’t go there.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Wow, that’s phenomenal. That’s amazing.

So, when you were doing the endurance events before, was it all about carbs and sugar and gels before you had the cancer?

Meredith Loring: It was, and actually I reintroduced at least gels into my eating after I met Sami, because Sami had been pitching to me for so long, that if I wanted to really compete in trail running and cycling, that I had to be eating gels and carb-loading.

Yeah and I fought him for a really long time, because I knew how it made me feel. And I would call him before a race and be like, “Ah, this is so terrible. I’m never doing this again.” and he’d laugh really hard. But he had read the Lure of Running and read all the nutrition studies out there that pointed towards carb-loading and so he really urged me to do that. But I naturally gravitate towards not doing that.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Yeah and I guess with Sami, because he spoke about being almost a Type 2 diabetic …

Meredith Loring: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: … at one stage, would have had a shock and changed the approach altogether.

Meredith Loring: Yeah and for; I mean, I always knew what worked well for me, but I never try to impose my beliefs on other people. But the truth was, I wasn’t really looking at it from a what’s a typical American or a typical person worldwide facing until we found out Sami was pre-diabetic. And then I was really, I really started to noodle on. Like, okay, if Sami, who spends so much time and energy trying to figure out nutrition and athletic performance, if he can’t figure it out and he’s pre-diabetic, what chance does a normal person have.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: That’s such a good …

Meredith Loring: And it really made me kind of upset. And so we really just decided we’ve got to do something about this because we can’t just keep talking about it without any action.

Guy Lawrence: That’s phenomenal. And look, being involved in the documentary, with Donal as well and getting the message out there, it’s; I don’t know what it’s like in America, but there’s definitely a bit of a movement coming on here in Australia. More and more people are hungry for this knowledge because they’re all pissed off and confused. I mean, in the cinema itself there were so many light bulbs going off within that evening and the Q & A panel, we had; the cinema basically kicked us out at the end, because there was just not enough time. Everyone was hungry for more.

Meredith Loring: That’s exciting.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Well, it is, it’s fantastic. So, I’m taking when you do your endurance now, you know, no gels, no glucose, because there will be people listening to this that are doing that very thing, you know.

Meredith Loring: Yeah. I actually think it depends on what distance you’re doing. If you’re doing something that’s really short and high intensity, you’re definitely going to be burning carbohydrates. And so, that can give you kind of a mental break from fatigue and also give you some kind of a physical boost.

If you’re doing a really long event, I don’t think; you certainly don’t need to be eating the way you’re taught to eat. Like a huge pasta dinner and then eating carbs for all of your training.

What I do is I train practically zero-carb. I mean, I eat carbs from vegetables and stuff, but in my training I try to eat no carbs, if possible. And then in a race environment I’ll have some carbs. You really feel the difference if it’s a shorter event.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: So, what’s; when you’re talking about the race environment, so, what does your typical kind of pre-race or weekly exercise regime look like? What do you do?

Meredith Loring: Yeah. So, before I was pregnant I was running about 10 miles four times a week and then doing a long run once a week, like 15 or 20 miles.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: And then a four- or five-hour bike ride one day a week and then cross training one day a week. And that’s a lot; that’s a lot of exercise, but I would never have a gel during; like especially the runs. It would never even cross my mind to have a gel. In fact, I wouldn’t have eaten breakfast before an event.

And I’m still working out. Now I have to do mostly cycling, because I’ve broken my foot. But I still, even pregnant, I don’t need to eat breakfast before I do a workout. It’s just not necessary.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, because I know Sami said he did the same thing as well. It was literally …

Meredith Loring: It trains you to be a better fat burner and then once you’re in that mode you’re just not hungry and it feels better to have a more empty stomach, I think, when you’re doing hard workout.

Stuart Cooke: It does. And what about hydration during those prolonged periods of exercise?

Meredith Loring: Water.

Stuart Cooke: Just water, right.

Meredith Loring: Water, maybe some salts, depending on how long it is, I’ll have salt tablets or something or just put salt in my water. When I go for a bike ride I absolutely add salt to my water.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Right. I’m guessing that pre- that kind of way of eating it would have been sports drinks as well as well as the gels as well? Would it gravitate to …

Meredith Loring: No. I was never; I never touched sport drinks.

Stuart Cooke: Okay.

Meredith Loring: They’re just so low-quality and it’s just sugar water. It never made any sense to me.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. No, it’s true; like low-quality, but high promise. You know, they really do promise the Earth with all of their wonderful benefits, but yeah, sugar water.

Meredith Loring: I always thought it was bullshit. I mean, it’s total bullshit.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We hear ya man, we hear ya.

That’s another question that just popped in there; do you train with groups of other people? And do they follow the same philosophy as you or do you see all over the place or what?

Meredith Loring: No, I do train with groups of other people and people are usually fairly shocked to figure out I haven’t had breakfast or that I’m not going to have gels during our runs or our rides. Rides in particular, for some reason the way that Sami and I eat pre-enduring rides, is fairly shocking to people. It’s becoming more accepted here in Northern California now, but up until probably six or seven months ago, people would just fight and argue with us the entire time. Like about us not eating or just think that we’re crazy or have some kind of issue.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, exactly like …

Stuart Cooke: But I guess the results speak for themselves, don’t they, if you’re performing.

Meredith Loring: Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

Guy Lawrence: Definitely, I mean, I live on a cycle route, as in there’s always groups of cyclists every morning, flying past my place here, to down at the beach. And the one thing that is evident and I never want to be judgmental of people or anything, but a lot of them are overweight. Like, I see them, and I’m thinking, they must be clocking up to, I don’t know whether they’re doing 20, 30, 40ks in the morning, most mornings. And yet, I don’t know why the penny doesn’t drop. You know…

Meredith Loring: Yeah. For some reason people still don’t understand that exercise isn’t going to make you lose weight. It’s all in what you’re eating.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, it’s massive. We certainly push that word. Definitely.

So, can we talk about the row, Meredith, and one of the things I only found out last week, because thanks to Donal, mentioned that you competed in an Everest Marathon, which is the world’s highest marathon, weeks before you did the row. Is that right?

Meredith Loring: Yeah. I don’t know how smart it was, but I had signed up for it a couple of years ago, because it’s fairly difficult to get into and it was about 10 days before we left for our row. So …

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Meredith Loring: … you have to get to the base camp, basically and then you run from base camp, a marathon. And I had to continue, because I had a flight to catch the next morning, so I had to run to the airport. So, I did break a 50-mile run. And I was the first non-Nepali female. So, …

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Meredith Loring: I won my category.

Guy Lawrence: That’s insane. What height is Everest base camp?

Meredith Loring: I think it’s like 18,000 feet; something like that.

Guy Lawrence: That’s insane, because I only think about it, because I did trekking in Nepal and …

Meredith Loring: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: … I know Stu has done some there, but I got to I think 4,100 meters at one stage, because I did the Annapurna and I was just walking. But when I got there I was crawling. I was so exhausted. I was just wiped, I mean, there were runners passing me at the time and I think, “How the hell do you do that?”

Meredith Loring: Yeah, it’s brutal. It’s brutal, and my lungs at the end of that day, my lungs were in such pain and it really felt like I had flipped them inside out. You’re just gasping for air the whole time and the air is so thin up there.

Guy Lawrence: That’s unbelievable. Are you working your way down the whole event?

Meredith Loring: Not the whole event. I mean, it’s a net elevation loss, but there’s a lot of flat and there’s even uphill sections that are like, I don’t know, 10k long or something.

Guy Lawrence: Amazing. And did you do any altitude training before?

Meredith Loring: No, just the hike up there. It took about 10 or 11 days to get up there.

Guy Lawrence: Got it.

Meredith Loring: Which isn’t enough. It takes about two months for your blood volume to increase. And there were other competitors there who had spent two or three months on the mountain, practicing and trying to acclimatize, which is way too much time for me to dedicate.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah and just because I’d expect it from anybody listening to this, a 10- or 11-day hike prior to a marathon is pretty massive is some people’s books. Like I’d be looking at it going, “Right! That’s a mission.” And then to do a marathon after that is unbelievable.

Meredith Loring: It was so much fun. I’ve been trying to convince Sami that we should do it in November if we can figure out what to do with the baby.

Stuart Cooke: I guess you were lucky that you had that nice row to recover from your marathon.

Meredith Loring: Yeah. Well, the good news was that I didn’t have to do any running. So, as beat up as I was from running, my upper body became totally beat up after that.

Guy Lawrence: Unbelievable.

Stuart Cooke: Oh my word, that is just craziness.

So, just for all of our listeners that haven’t heard about the row, I wondered if you could just tell us what you did during that time; that crazy period.

Meredith Loring: So, my husband, Sami, and I rowed from Monterey, California to Hawaii over the course of about 45 days. In a rowboat, unsupported. So, we didn’t have anyone picking us up after a shift. We were sleeping in the rowboat. We carried all of our own food. We carried all our water. And we did it to raise awareness about the dangers of sugar.

So, we didn’t have any sugar or processed carbohydrates on board. We only ate real whole food, like macadamia nuts, salmon, dried vegetables, some dried fruit. And we were rowing about 18 hours a day each and then sleeping six hours a day each. So, there was someone constantly on the oars …

Guy Lawrence: Got it.

Meredith Loring: … when the weather was okay.

Guy Lawrence: Wow! What was the total distance between the two?

Meredith Loring: I think we ended up rowing something like 2800 miles.

Guy Lawrence: 2800, there you go. And …

Meredith Loring: Yeah. We went a little bit out of the way. We thought we could go directly, but the weather was really bad when we left California.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: So, we really got pushed off course and had to do a bunch of extra miles, unfortunately.

Guy Lawrence: And I think, if I recall, it ended up being 45 days straight rowing like that, right?

Meredith Loring: Yeah. It was 45 days, which was the record for two-person crossing.

Guy Lawrence: Unbelievable. So, what was your; I’m fascinated, what were your biggest challenges on the boat while you were doing it?

Meredith Loring: Yeah. I think getting into the boat, like mentally getting into the boat when we left, was quite a challenge, because we did not do a lot of preparation in our actual boat. In fact, we had only slept in our boat one time before we left and we were docked in a marina to another boat. So, we really had never been in the open ocean on any boat.

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Meredith Loring: And so, just coming to terms with the fact, like this is going to be our home; we thought it would take us 60 days, so this is going to be our home for two months potentially. And just being able to be like, “Okay, I’m going to stop thinking about getting off the boat and I’m just going to deal with this, and this is my life for the next two months.” That was pretty difficult.

Guy Lawrence: That’s massive. Did anyone tell you, “You’re crazy. Don’t do it.” or were you just …

Meredith Loring: Everyone. Everyone told us we were crazy. I mean, I don’t think most people believed that we were going to do it, because like I said, we had zero rowing experience and we had never even been in sailboats or anything. So, I think, most everyone just thought we weren’t going to make it. In fact a lot of people were commenting on articles that were posted about us in the newspaper that, you know, “There’s no way they’re going to make it.” And, “What are they thinking even trying.”

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Meredith Loring: Which motivated us even more.

Guy Lawrence: I know Stu’s itching to ask a question, but I’ve got to ask one more. How big did some of the waves get out there?

Meredith Loring: The waves were crazy big when we left. There was ridiculous bad weather. They were like 25 or 30 feet tall and they were crashing on the boat. And I’m pretty small, so I was actually getting pushed off my seat, which is why Sami and I were rowing together in the beginning.

We never planned on rowing together. We always planned on having separate shifts. But it was way too dangerous for either one of us to be out there alone, because if one of us got washed off, like, there’s really no hope of getting back on the boat if you don’t catch it right away.

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Stuart Cooke: Wow.

Guy Lawrence: Were you scared?

Meredith Loring: Yeah, I mean, it was scary.

Guy Lawrence: I’d be terrified. I go on a boat in Sydney Harbor and if it picks up I get nervous, let alone …

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: It was scary, but it’s kind of amazing how fast you adapt to what your view of reality is. Like after a couple of days of having this weather, maybe it was more like a week and we knew it wasn’t going to end, we got used to it. It just became the new normal.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, that’s incredible.

Stuart Cooke: So, how; I’m intrigued about the food side of it and you mentioned that you pre-prepared all those other foods, but how did you structure your eating? I mean, I’m guessing that you didn’t sit there, opposite Sami, underneath a kind of beautiful moon and toast the row with you know; how, was it; did you have packages for breakfast, lunch and dinner or was it just grabbing kind of handfuls of stuff as you went?

Meredith Loring: Yeah, we did; we put quite a bit of thought into packaging our food before the row, because you don’t want to be spending time, extra time, on the boat doing anything because over the course of two months, it adds up to be days and potentially longer than that.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: So, we worked with Steve Phinney when we were preparing so that we knew kind of like what our background nutrient profile should be and then what kind of supplements, if any, we should be taking and how much salt we should be taking.

Stuart Cooke: Right.

Meredith Loring: And then we packaged kind of daily rations and then we packaged like an add-on. So that if we needed extra calories, we could just grab something else. And then we’d grab that first thing when our rowing shift started, each of us, and then you would just work through that bag all day long.

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Meredith Loring: And we actually ended up throwing out a lot, because you think about when you’re leaving, “Oh I get to eat 5,000 or 6,000 calories a day. This is going to be awesome, because I can never eat that much.”

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: But it’s ridiculously hard to eat that much food, real food. It’s a lot of volume.

Guy Lawrence: Right.

Stuart Cooke: Oh, absolutely. And do you still enjoy those same foods today or are you sick to your hind teeth or something?

Meredith Loring: No. The funny thing is, we were eating the same thing before we left, you know, like salmon and nuts. Dried; well, not dried, but fresh vegetables and fruit and I’m eating the same things now, like every day.

Stuart Cooke: Perfect.

Meredith Loring: Because it’s fulfilling and it’s a variety of vegetables, it’s good food.

Stuart Cooke: That’s it and it’s nourishing and I guess if you’re getting that nourishment then your body’s accepting of it.

Meredith Loring: Yeah, that’s kind of an interesting thing. So, when you’re pregnant, everyone’s like, “You’re going to have these weird food cravings and you’re going to be eating all kinds of junk food and stuff like that.” But I’m really convinced that you’re cravings are based on you’re deficient in. Like your body knows you’re deficient in something and so you crave weird things.

Stuart Cooke: Yes.

Meredith Loring: I don’t get any cravings. Like, I’ll get cravings for raw salmon versus cooked salmon.

Stuart Cooke: Right.

Meredith Loring: Or potently some dairy product. But I don’t have cravings for any sweets or anything weird like pickles. My body is very well-nourished.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. Absolutely. No tons of ice cream, watching movies late at night.

Guy Lawrence: So, Sami mentioned that he was eating 70 to 75 percent fat on the boat. Was that the same for you?

Meredith Loring: Yeah. If, I mean, when you looked at the volume, if it was like 98 percent vegetables, but then calorie-wise …

Guy Lawrence: Got it.

Meredith Loring: … it was much more fat, because we were adding, just to get the calories, we were adding olive oil and nuts in everything that we’d eat.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, right.

Meredith Loring: And coconut butter. At the end we did like a week-long stretch, where we were pushing as hard as we could because these hurricanes were coming to the Hawaii.

We knew they were coming, they were kind of; we had like a one-day window to land or something.

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Meredith Loring: So, we were rowing really hard and all we were eating all day long was coconut butter and cacao nibs. Like, it was ridiculous.

Guy Lawrence: That’s amazing and …

Meredith Loring: And we were totally energized. It was awesome.

Guy Lawrence: Were your ketones measured as well?

Meredith Loring: No, we didn’t, I mean, the boat honestly was so disgusting I would not have wanted to puncture any skin unnecessarily.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuie’s just disappeared. He’ll come back in a sec. I don’t know what’s going on over there.

Yeah, that’s amazing, that’s amazing. And the other thing that was evident in the documentary as well, because Dr. Steven Phinney said that when you got off the boat as well, that your results were in some ways even better than Sami’s, in the fact that you didn’t really show much atrophy in muscle or …

Meredith Loring: Yeah. Well, I was definitely aware of the weight. So, Sami and I went into the row pretty differently. I had just run the Everest marathon. I was not at a body weight where it would have been acceptable for me to lose weight across the journey.

Guy Lawrence: Got it.

Meredith Loring: Like, Sami had bulked up in preparation for the row and had been able to keep all of that bulk. But when I went to Everest, kind of all of the mass that I had put on before came off. So, I was very conscious every day. Like, I need to eat; I need to eat a certain amount and I need to do kind of exercises to make sure I’m not losing too much …

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, yeah. Amazing. And the one last thing while we’re talking about the row as well, that became evident in from the movie screening as well, was how a lot of the couples got inspired that you did something like this …

Oh, he’s back. Hey, Stu.

Stuart Cooke: Hello. I’m back.

Guy Lawrence: … that you did this together. And so, the question that I was going to ask you is, they say travel is a great way to test the relationship. How did you guys get along, generally, on the boat and did you have any tips and tricks to keep it all together?

Meredith Loring: It was really interesting. We thought that in itself, crazy to say, we really thought there was a very good chance that we’ll get divorced during this row. Because in normal life there’s some level of friction between us, especially if we’re in a stressful environment.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: But when we got onto that boat and the weather conditions were really scary and tough, we were just so focused on working towards the same goal and making sure that we were both safe and that we were moving, that there was literally no friction between us entire time. It was shocking. It was so shocking. And in fact, we were working so well together that about the same time, within a 48-hour window, we both had this epiphany that we should have kids, which is completely contrary to anything we’ve ever said. We’ve always been like the “no kids” people.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: So, we were like, “Oh, we should have kids.” And then we started trying on the boat, which I would not recommend to anyone.

Stuart Cooke: Well, maybe it’s a strategy for marriage counseling then. Like, I’m moving forward, just throw in the odd crazy endurance event and everything will be fine.

Meredith Loring: We heard some serious horror stories from other people who had rowed oceans, like it does not always work out that way.

Guy Lawrence: That’s right. It’s not always that romantic.

Meredith Loring: There’s plenty of people who don’t talk to each other once they land.

Guy Lawrence: I’ve got; sorry I keep going off at times and sorry, Stu, and I’ve got one more question regarding the boat and this topic always fascinates me around mindfulness and being present. How did you cope with that? Is it; was it something you just got into rhythm?

And I only raise it, because a good friend of mine who came to the movie screening. He’s a sailor and he sailed from Curacao, which is off the top of South America, back to Australia, and he had one stretch that was 30 days at sea and there was three of them. And he said he found that really challenging, just being on a boat. But he wasn’t exercising and he saw what you guys done and was just blown away from that.

How did you find it?

Meredith Loring: Well, we have done a significant amount of meditation and mindfulness training over the last three years. So, I think mentally we were fairly well prepared for the monotony and the pain and just knowing that it’s going to be ridiculously boring and you can’t get out of that situation. And it was an excellent opportunity to practice that skill.

Because, you know, when you have these, like, nagging pains all the time and then it hurts even more with every stroke you take, you tend to be, “Oh, I wish I wasn’t here. I wish I was home” and thinking about all the things that you can’t have, which really just makes the situation that much worse. And if you can just be like, “Okay, this is my reality. This is what I’m doing. There’s no way to get off.” And the pain becomes more manageable when you do that.

So, we had plenty of opportunities to practice it, but you know what it’s like, constant battle. And then there were times where the boredom wasn’t so bad. Like when we first left, because it was so scary and you always had to be looking out for large waves and grabbing on so that you wouldn’t get knocked off the boat, your mind is constantly focused. But then once the weather calmed down it was really boring. All of our electronics broke during the first week, so we didn’t have music or anything.

Stuart Cooke: Oh, nice.

Meredith Loring: Yeah. We had conversations that you should just never have with your spouse, because there was nothing else to do. Sami and I were rowing for 12 hours together straight everyday. So, yeah, we talked about everything.

Stuart Cooke: A thought popped into my mind as well. How did you sleep on there? I mean, was it, was sleep quality good, given that you were doing so much exercise, but you’re in such crazy environment, I guess with the rolling and everything else. What was your sleep …

Meredith Loring: So, our sleep, I would say relative to other people who have rowed oceans, was amazing. Because almost everyone who has rowed in oceans goes with this sleep pattern, which is two hours rowing, two hours sleeping. And then they do that 24 hours a day.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: But you can’t get any growth hormone and repair your body or even dry your skin out, if you do that, and we were sleeping in six-hour blocks, so we would row 18 hours straight each and then we would each sleep six hours. And then the cabin, of course, was moving around a lot and you have alarms and stuff going off that wake you up. But you are so exhausted that the six hours is just like, it’s a miracle. It is a miracle to have that six hours.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: And so we would wake up being, I think, very refreshed considering what we were doing.

Stuart Cooke: That’s fantastic.

Guy Lawrence: It’s incredible. I’ve just in awe.

Meredith Loring: I think out of all of the things that we did differently, the sleep pattern is going to be what all ocean rowers do going forward.

Guy Lawrence: Got it.

Meredith Loring: Based on our results. Like, we walked off of that boat not having any real injuries, not really being sick, not really having any skin damage. And it’s partially our diet, because we’re not eating all of that total crap freeze-dried food.

Stuart Cooke: Yup.

Meredith Loring: And then I think a lot of it had to do with the sleep.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah and how many hours do you sleep now, like on a normal day? Do you still do six to eight hours? Do you find …

Meredith Loring: No. I need at least eight hours of sleep. And now I try to get even more. It’s tough. Like I’m in the bed for nine hours.

Stuart Cooke: Right.

Meredith Loring: And then maybe seven and a half to eight and a half is sleeping for me now.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: I need more, but it’s just hard to sleep now.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Just find what’s right for you. I wanted to touch a little bit on your pregnancy as well, which is fantastic news and you spoke before about your lack of crazy pregnancy cravings, food cravings. But have you tinkered or adjusted the way that you eat in any way?

Meredith Loring: Yeah. I try to be more moderate. Not shut down; if I’m feeling like I want to have cheese or milk, I will eat that stuff now and before I wouldn’t touch dairy with a 10-foot pole.

Stuart Cooke: Yup.

Meredith Loring: And also, the meat. I would never eat meat, other than fish, before and now if I want to have chicken I’ll eat chicken.

Stuart Cooke: Right.

Meredith Loring: But my eating habits are remarkably similar to what they were pre-pregnancy.

Guy Lawrence: Okay.

It’s kind of unbelievable, given what you hear from mainstream media and anecdotal stories from friends. I have a friend who’s as pregnant as I am to the day and I got in her car the other day and she’s a pretty healthy eater and there were cheese doodles and goldfish and sugary cereal and I’m like, “What are you doing?” And she was just like, “Well, I’m craving this stuff all of the time.” In my mind you crave that stuff after you start eating it because it’s full of sugar and it’s addictive.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah …

Meredith Loring: You don’t start eating it, you’re not going to want it.

Stuart Cooke: Exactly. Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Just out of curiosity then, how much vegetables do you eat a day, because that’s obviously the main staple. What does your typical day look like in a meal?

Meredith Loring: Well, I have like a; so, I wake up, I work out first thing in the morning. I come home, I’ll eat an apple or something after my workout and then I’m eating salad or sautéed spinach or something like that, massive quantities of it, with olive oil or some protein on it. And I’m eating that two major times a day.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, right.

Stuart Cooke: Right.

Meredith Loring: It’s a lot of volume. If you look at my stomach at the beginning of the day versus the end of the day, I look like I’m two XXmore pounds?XX [:36:46.3] at the end of the day. But that was the case before I got pregnant, so at least I have an excuse now.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: Another question, because even when we spoke before we started recording the broadcast, about your broken foot.

Meredith Loring: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: How has your exercise regime changed during pregnancy? It sounds like it hasn’t changed that much, because, you know …

Meredith Loring: I’m definitely working out. I’m trying to workout almost as much, like at least doing it cadence-wise as much. And I had been having the same workout program up until three weeks ago when I broke my foot. So, I was still trail running and I was still doing a lot of hiking and cycling and now I’m kind of only doing cycling.

So, I’d do higher intensity cycling during the week indoors and then I go for a long ride on the weekends, like 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 hour ride, a group ride, on the weekends, in which I get a lot of really weird looks.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, I can only imagine.

Meredith Loring: I think the Spandex bike kit on a pregnant lady, it’s not the best look.

Guy Lawrence: You know, you don’t hear many 8 months, 8 1/2 months people pregnant breaking their foot out running, you know. It’s …

Meredith Loring: Yeah. Well, actually my podiatrist said he sees three or four women every week that are in their last month of pregnancy that have fractured their foot. Because your body is just not used to extra weight. I think I definitely accelerated the process by trail running.

Stuart Cooke: Right.

Meredith Loring: But it’s more common than you think.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, right. Okay. There you go.

Stuart Cooke: Thinking about food again and where baby and toddler and children are concerned, have you gotten any plans where food is concerned? Because historically, baby and toddler food is generally quite highly processed and full of crap, really; what are your thoughts on feeding on feeding your kids?

Meredith Loring: Yeah. I’ve been thinking about it quite a bit. Actually in the U.S., 98 percent of food for kids, like toddlers and small children, has added sugar or processed carbohydrates in it. So, it’s nearly everything.

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Meredith Loring: It’s, yeah, it’s pretty shocking. For adults it’s 80 percent. And I was really appalled to see that for kids it was even more. It’s disgusting. So, there’s not obviously a lot of good options for, like, convenient packaged stuff out there, So, I mean, I’m going to do what works, but I’m totally dedicated to having a kid that’s eating real whole food.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: And that probably means we have to spend the time to make it, because it isn’t available.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Yeah, there you go.

It’s like, you know, Stu’s got three girls and you’re always up for the challenge of preparing food.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. Well, that’s true. Well, we have the twins as well. So, I remember when they were born, it was all about food preparation and we were just, well, my wife was in the kitchen making up these huge like fish lyonnaise, fatty, buttery meals and then freezing them and then bringing them out and that was really the staple. I mean, it was just; the freezer was our savior, because we could just make huge amounts of food and then just come back to it knowing that we’ve cooked it.

Meredith Loring: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: And it’s just; preparation is the key, I think during that period.

Meredith Loring: I think so much of our taste is developed at a very young age.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, definitely.

Meredith Loring: And whose knows what else, genetically speaking, that we’re not going to fool around with it and take chances. And, like, I just don’t want it to be part of our kid’s life. That they’re eating the stuff, like, we know it’s poison; why on earth would we feed it to any children?

Stuart Cooke: That’s actually right.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, exactly.

So, Meredith, we always finish up the podcast with a wrap-up question that we ask everyone.

Meredith Loring: Okay.

Guy Lawrence: And that it’s, what’s the single best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Meredith Loring: Actually, Sami, gave me a really good piece of advice that was really relevant on our row, but then it; it actually is relevant every day of my life. And that’s not to set goals that aren’t 100 percent within my control.

So, don’t set outcome-based goals, like “I’m going to win a race.” Set goals that are more like, “I’m going to do 10 hours of training,” and, “I’m going to do training at a certain intensity.”

Stuart Cooke: Got it.

Meredith Loring: Because you’ll always be disappointed or almost always be disappointed if you’re setting goals that are outside of your own personal power.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. You don’t set yourself up …

Meredith Loring: … and during the row it helped, like, we were getting devastated, because we were setting these arbitrary goals about, “Oh, we’re going to row 60 miles each day and that means we’re going to land on July 15th.” and then, you know, we’d have a day where we either went backwards or we didn’t come close to that goal and we’d be so devastated that we wouldn’t be able to get out of bed.

So, we were constantly learning that. And I’m, it’s still something I have to remember.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Meredith Loring: I think it’s pretty …

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. That’s great advice. Don’t set yourself up for failure essentially, you know.

Meredith Loring: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, fantastic.

And if people listening to this and they want to find out more about you, is there anywhere they can go? Would the Fat Chance Row blog be the best place or?

Meredith Loring: Yeah, the Fat Chance Row blog is a pretty good place to find out about our journey and we recently launched a package food company, actually, called: Native Life. And that’s where I do most of my blogging now.

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic.

Meredith Loring: It’s grain-free, no sugar added cereal. So …

Guy Lawrence: Awesome, that’s awesome.

Meredith Loring: That’s what I’m focusing my attention on now.

Guy Lawrence: Good on you. We’ll put links to everything on the show notes as well …

Meredith Loring: Yeah, awesome.

Guy Lawrence: People are definitely find out about that.

Look, Meredith, thank you so much for coming on the show. That was, that was awesome. That was really cool and I have no doubt a lot of people are going to get a lot out of that.

Meredith Loring: Good. Thanks for having me.

Guy Lawrence: No worries.

Stuart Cooke: Thanks so much, Meredith.

Guy Lawrence: Thank you, Meredith. Bye, bye.

Stuart Cooke: Take care.

Rebecca Creedy Ironwoman: Lowering Carbs & Supercharging my Diet. This is How I Did it…


rebecca creedyThe above video is 3 minutes 30 seconds long.

Listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

This week we welcome commonwealth gold medalist and Australian Ironwoman Rebecca Creedy to the show. The elite athlete shares with us how she transformed her diet, including lowering her carbs and eating more wholefoods. Along with this came a massive positive effect on her episodes of hypoglycemia which now seems to be a thing of the past.

We also go deep into her training regimes, pre and post workout nutrition and what she does to to stay on top of her game.


downloaditunesIn this episode we talk about:-

  • Why lowering her carbs has improved her wellbeing
  • How she looks to ‘supercharge’ her plate
  • The training schedule of an elite ironwoman
  • Her favourite cheat meal
  • How to stay motivated in those ‘weak’ moments
  • Tactics around recovery
  • And much much more…

CLICK HERE for all Episodes of 180TV

Get More of Rebecca Creedy Here:

supercharge your diet with a 180 natural protein smoothie here

Full Interview with Rebecca Creedy Transcript

 

Guy Lawrence: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition and welcome to another episode of Health Sessions. Our lovely guest today is Ironwoman Rebecca Creedy. Now, Rebecca has got an amazing resume when it comes to being an athlete, including winning the gold medal in swimming in the Commonwealth Games. She’s also competed and won medals at the World Championships. All that was by the age of 21. And she’s gone on and won an IronWoman series in 2012 and it was awesome to have her on the podcast today as she shares her journey with us.

She …We first met Rebecca about a year ago. She approached us, because she found us on the internet when she looking for a natural supplement, of all things, and discovered 180 and has been a avid user ever since, which I’m proud to say.

She … In her own words she was “looking to clean up the diet.” She suffered from hypoglycemia and it was affecting her races. So, she really started to delve deeper into the world of nutrition and recovery and see how she could improve it and has gone on and had a fantastic series, which is a Nutri-Grain Kellogg’s IronWoman Series, which just ended last weekend.

So, she shares with us all the things she’s learned and it’s just; yeah; fantastic to have her on and I have no doubt you’ll get a lot out of this podcast today, especially if you’re competing as a high-end athlete as well, because she really doesn’t rely on the carbohydrates as much and the goos and the gels, which is of course, renowned within the; especially in the endurance fields of athleticism. And it’s something which we agree with too, you know, but…

So, there’re gems of information all the way through this and I have no doubt you will enjoy.

As always, if you are listening to this through iTunes, we’d love you to leave a little review. It takes two minutes. Can be a little bit complicated, but it really helps us with our rankings and know that you are enjoying the podcast too. If you want to see this in video and leave a comment as well, just come over to our blog, which is 180nutrition.com.au.

And, yeah, that’s it. Enjoy the show and I’m sure to catch you soon. Cheers.

Guy Lawrence: All right, let’s do it. Hi, this is Guy Lawrence. I’m joined with Stuart Cooke as always. Hello Stuart.

Stuart Cooke: Hey.

Guy Lawrence: And our lovely guest today is Rebecca Creedy. Rebecca welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on.

Rebecca Creedy: Hey guys. Thanks for having me.

Guy Lawrence: I thought I’d kick off, Rebecca, you know, well, I was looking a your resume on Wikipedia this morning and it’s insanely impressive, but I thought you’d do a better job in sharing with the listeners a little bit about what you’ve achieved in your swimming accolades over the years and to our listeners; a better job than me anyway.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Yeah. Look, I come from a swimming background. I represented Australia at two Commonwealth Games, a World Championships, two Pan Pacific championships. Won Commonwealth Games gold medals; Commonwealth Games records. It was a pretty amazing part of my life. Yeah, I made my first Australian swim team at the age of 14. So yeah, 14 to 21; yeah, yep, swimming was my life. So, I was around back in the days with Ian Thorpe and amazing people like that. So, I got to spend a pretty big part of my life learning off some fairly amazing athletes and characters. So, yeah …

Guy Lawrence: What got you into swimming? Were you always like a water baby or did you…

Rebecca Creedy: I’ve always was. I’ve always loved it. I actually didn’t grow up near the beach. so I was, I grew up in Redcliffe which has a beach, but not a lot of people swim there. I grew up as a pool swimmer and I used to beg Mum and Dad to take me swimming every day. So, I got introduced to swimming younger than most and really excelled and loved every minute of it.

Guy Lawrence: There you go.

Stuart Cooke: Awesome. So, tell us, Commonwealth gold medalist to Ironwoman, how did that come about?


Rebecca Creedy: Look it was, it; to be honest it even shocks me when I sit here and talk about it. When I was swimming I used to watch the Ironman series on television and think, “Wow. That’s such an amazing sport. It looks like so much fun.” You know, it never really crossed my mind that one day I would be up there taking out medals in that arena as well. But I finished swimming at the age of 21 and I just lost that drive to really seek what it takes to succeed in swimming and moved overseas and lived the party lifestyle that I missed out on.

Guy Lawrence: I say yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: So, I got that in for a good XXunintelligibleXX [:04:48.7] two years and one XXtechnical glitchXX[:04:50.8] and, “What am I doing? This isn’t where I want to be.” So, I moved back home and decided to get fit again and XXunintelligible surf lifesaving??XX [[:04:59.2]. Yeah, it was quite amazing that just, I took to the ski really quickly and picked up the ski paddling really quickly and the board paddling was a lot harder and skills it takes to catch waves and that took a little bit longer, but it kind of all comes together in 12 months and next thing I knew I was trialing for the Nutri-Grain IronWoman series. So…

Stuart Cooke: That’s awesome.

Guy Lawrence: Can you explain exactly for our listeners, because I know people, especially back in the UK or whatever, the listeners won’t have a clue what an Ironman/IronWoman series is?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: Can you just explain the concept of it all to us?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. So, the Ironman series, it’s all based around surf lifesaving and we paddle boards and skis and also swim. So, it’s kind of like a triathlon of sorts. It’s a three-legged race that lasts anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and we do those three disciplines in a race in varying orders and it’s a lot of fun. We go out in big surf and get to battle the elements and it definitely is character-building.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. So, there’s three disciplines, because I’ve never, I’m trying to think so you’d be; there’s a ski, right? Which is the; like a big kayak, would you say?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, it’s like a kayak and we go out through the surf and the waves, so it’s a little bit, a little bit harder than sitting in a kayak. A kayak easy in still water …

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: So, trying to master sitting in the ski when there’s six-foot waves can be a little bit tricky. But to be honest, I really enjoy it and the ski is probably my favorite leg,

Guy Lawrence: Right. And then there’s the swim obviously.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, the swim obviously came quite naturally to me.

Guy Lawrence: And what’s the other leg? I actually don’t know.

Rebecca Creedy: It’s wood paddling. So, the boards, you see those on the beaches now. It’s based all around the fact that we paddle boards to save lives and yet, it’s a very similar board to what you’ll see on the beach with the lifesavers. So, it’s a little bit more slimline and designed to go a bit faster, but, yeah, we paddle the boards and trying to get that out through the waves as well, can be a little bit treacherous.

Guy Lawrence: I’m assuming that it’s very strategic, right, because you’re; what’s the word I’m looking for? But the elements are going to change the dynamic of each and every race.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: At, you know, what point would they say, “Sorry you’re not racing today, it’s too big like.” How big does it get out there?

Rebecca Creedy: It does get pretty crazy. Last year in Margaret River for the first two rounds of the Nutri-Grain series, they actually took out the ski leg of the women’s race because it was too big. We were a little bit disappointed in that because the girls believed we were capable of dealing with it. But unfortunately it was an executive decision that had to be made. The waves; it was probably about 7 foot and even bigger in some of the sets that were coming through. But, yeah, it was a little disappointing that we had to make that decision. But they generally either cancel the race before they do things like that. So, yeah, so, it all depends on I guess the level of skill of the people racing. So…

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. That’s huge. Because me and Stuart both in our XXtrans?? rideXX [:08:20.7] you know and XXgo hit the elements a bitXX. But I can really, after doing that, I would be terrified. I can really appreciate what you put yourself through, honestly, like, waves are scary I think.

Rebecca Creedy: They certainly are. I still get scared out there. I’m a late bloomer so I only started this sport at the age of 23, 24; so for me, some of the skills I really have to think about what I’m doing out there and sometimes I have to overcome my fears just to kind of put the foot on the line and really get myself in the game. But, you know, once you take that first leap of faith, it; all of a sudden you have this confidence in yourself, you know, “Yeah, yeah. I can do this. This is fine.” But, yeah, it’s taking that first step and really having belief and confidence in your skills.

Guy Lawrence: No doubt.

Stuart Cooke: No doubt.

Stuart Cooke: You’re looking shocked, Guy. I’m just picturing you doing your run, swim, run down at Coogee Beach in your Speedos … that’s enough for us. But I see it down there, because I; Guy and myself are in the surf club and I do water safety for the nippers down there as well on a Sunday and you see these little kids who; I do the under 9’s, and we take them out in, you know, in sizable surf for their age and height and some of them just shine and just take to it and some of them are less so and quite scared. But they build that confidence at that early age and I think it just sets you up fantastically, especially for a country like Australia where we spend a lot of time in the water. It’s almost vital and it’s fantastic.

Guy Lawrence: It’s amazing.

Rebecca Creedy: I think, I think it’s a great sport for confidence. You know it’s not always about the fastest person winning and it is a skill-based work, you know, XXtechnical glitchXX [:10:06.9] public, I stay away from rips and things like that, but when it comes down to racing in surf lifesaving we use things like that to be able to the battle the elements and you know the fastest way out and easiest way out in big surf is straight out through the rip. It’s using things like that and that knowledge that you gain and understanding how the ocean works, it really does set you up for life. And I think if the general public understood a little bit more about the surf, it would make the whole; everyone a lot safer, but it takes years; it’s taken me years. I’ve been doing this sport for seven years now and I really feel that this year’s the first time I’ve really started to shine and really, I guess, set myself up for a even better series and a chance to take out the series next year.

Guy Lawrence: Because the series has just finished, right; which is the Nutri-Grain Kellogg’s?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. The Kellogg’s Nutri-Grain Ironman series, we did six rounds, So, we had two starting off over in Margaret River. Then we did two just here on Surfer’s Paradise and more local beaches and then we did two down in Newcastle and that was just last weekend. So, that was; it was an amazing series. I stayed consistent. Yeah, I got some fantastic results and I walked away really happy with how my season panned out.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, fantastic and you came in second overall, right? That’s phenomenal. If I’m not mistaken, amazing.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, second overall. I got on the top podium once this series, which was amazing, especially with such fantastic competitors. Liz Pluimers took out nearly every race, but managed to stop her taking the clean sweep.

Stuart Cooke: Fantastic. It’s awesome to watch, too, because we used to have the final down in Coogee, and I know if you remember that, Guy, so we used to go down there.

Guy Lawrence: I do. Yeah, I’ve been down there.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, I remember, you didn’t wave back when I was there. But, it’s really a great spectator sport and I love the fact that you don’t really; you don’t really know who’s won until right at the very last moment because anything can happen in the surf. You can pick up a wave on the ski or the board and everything changes, so so much fun to watch.


Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Yeah. Look, you know, people talk a lot about luck and things like that, but you can get a little bit unlucky, but usually find the people that do well can regulate, they just have the skills, they know where to put themselves, they know how to catch that wave that’s going to be coming through and things like that. So, it’s quite amazing. I love it. It’s frustrating sometimes. I got one race this year that I probably should have won and it didn’t quite happen, but it’s moments like that you kind of kick yourself and go, “Oh, those bloody waves.”

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: But, we always like racing the waves. It’s a nice little rest in between …

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, I bet.

Rebecca Creedy: … the next leg. So, yeah.

Guy Lawrence: So, what is your typical training day look like to prepare for an event like this?

Rebecca Creedy: Oh, it gets hectic. This off season I did the Coolangatta Gold, which is actually a five-hour race.
Guy Lawrence: Oh my.

Rebecca Creedy: So, it consists of the 20 kilometer ski paddle, 2K run, then a 4K swim and then a 7K board paddle and then another 7 1/2 K run at the end. So, to train for that this year, that really took it to the next level for me; a lot of, basically training three times a day. Trying to get your swim in every morning, board and skis in the afternoon and then a run on top of that. The one thing I had to drop this year was my gym program. I just; it’s basically something that I’m very; I’m a very strong athlete anyway, I’m very muscle-y, so it’s not something I really have to focus on too much. So, for me it was probably the first thing I decided to drop this year. At 31, it can be quite hard to recover in between sessions and I may have an idea of everything I want to achieve that week, but sometimes it doesn’t work out that way and you have to take that rest your body needs.

Guy Lawrence: Because you’re training at skills as well as fitness, right? It’s not like a runner, for instance, they’ll just go and run and expand their run and improve their time and things like that. Like there’s so many variables to what you’re doing …

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: … and to stay on top of that as well.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, it is. Like sometimes when there’s big surf on the; the most beneficial thing you can do is go out and go for a surf. It’s learning how to read the surf and get out quickly through the surf is just as important and how to catch that wave all the way to the beach. You know, if I can’t hold a wave in my ski then, to be honest, all the training I did on the lake isn’t going to help me.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: So, yeah, those little skills can be just as important as the speed-based and endurance training that we do. So, yeah, it can be tricky sometimes and I’m very fortunate I’ve got a great coach behind me, who’s also my partner, that teaches me some amazing skills and has passed on all his knowledge to me. So, yeah, I’m very lucky in that way.

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic.

Stuart Cooke: So, what about motivation? Where do you go, I mean, you even mentioned those longer legs where you’ve got 20K, you know, paddles and skis and 7K; I’m guessing that’s soft sand run as well, is it?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, well luckily it was low tide.

sc. Right. Okay. Excellent.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, but no it’s still, it’s still really hard and I’m not a natural runner, I’m a real water baby. So, for me that run leg was pretty tricky. I did a lot of running in the off season, which I don’t really enjoy, but I guess it’s just getting the most out of yourself that’s, you know, we all have days where I don’t want to get out bed and don’t necessarily want to go and do the swimming, but I’m 31 and I do these things for me now and I don’t feel like I have to do it for someone else. So, I just love the thought of being the best I can be. And I find that’s what motivates me the most is being proud of myself and the things I’ve achieved and, yeah, I guess I like being that person that people consider the tough competitor and the one that’s hard to mentally break and that as well, so that keeps me driven as well.

Guy Lawrence: What time is your first training session?

Rebecca Creedy: Five o’clock in the pool, XXunintelligible so 4:30 get up most days?XX [:16:48.3] As I’ve gotten older, though, I must admit I don’t really enjoy getting up early. So, I’m fortunate enough I do XXmix it up? 0:17:01.000XX at times and if I’m not feeling motivated to swim at that time I’ll swap it around and I’ll do a lighter session or I’ll go swimming in the afternoon and do a board session in the morning. And that’s really important for me at my age, because I do this sport because I love it and I don’t want to take that away. And forcing myself to do things I’m not enjoying I don’t believe gets the most out of my training and yet it’s definitely going to shorten my career if I’m just pushing and pushing and pushing. So, I think the number one key is to enjoy what you do and to just make it work for you, which is what I’ve really, really taken on board this year.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, amazing.

Guy Lawrence: It’s amazing.

Stuart Cooke: You’ve certainly got the right environment, I think, backdrop, to enjoy what you do. I mean, the beach up there is just pristine, so beautiful.

Rebecca Creedy: It really is. It’s a great lifestyle and that’s what I tell people. I’m avoiding the real world because, to be honest, it’s not a bad lifestyle I have here. It’s doing something I love every day. It just drives you, definitely.

Guy Lawrence: It’s magical, yeah. Magical. So, what do you; what do you use for recovery? Like, what tactics do you do, because obviously recovery is a big component of your training as well, you know.

Rebecca Creedy: Absolutely. I think, you know, I’m not 16 anymore and I can definitely feel that. It does get hard. And for me, being able to read my body is super important and understand what it needs. Fueling it in the right way. Putting what it needs into it. When you’re younger, you know, you have a tendency to eat just whatever you want and otherwise I’ve been quite fortunate. I’ve never had to really worry about my weight. So, I’d finish a training session and I’d chomp down on a chocolate bar or something. Whereas, as I’ve gotten older I’ve really listened to how my body responds to things and it’s been really important in my recovery this year and probably the last two years, I’ve noticed the changes. I guess fueling it with the right sources and things that my body, I guess, responds to in the way that it can back up the next session. So, yeah, that’s been really important and I guess 180 Nutrition has been a massive part of that. Something I seeked out from you guys and …

Guy Lawrence: Yep. I mean that’s how we first met, right? Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: Absolutely. A little Facebook message saying I found your product and I think it’s great and I’d love to get on board. And, yeah, I went from the typical; the typical brands you use that are over-processed and artificially flavored things that I just found weren’t doing what I needed and when I found this natural product I was really happy and I’ve been stoked with how it’s really assisted me in my recovery.

Guy Lawrence: Now that’s good to hear. We appreciate it.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: You look like you are going to say something, Stu.

Stuart Cooke: Well, yeah. I was just; I noticed that your diet has changed quite radically from what we’ve seen and heard over the last 12 months. Have you had any other kind of “aha” moments that you’ve taken on board where your kind of old-style eating versus your new style? And I’m thinking, kind of, you know, carbohydrate-loading versus more kind of natural nutrient-dense foods to help you in your training and competitions.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Look I’ve always; I’ve never really been a massive fan of carbs. I really don’t like the way they feel, like they make me feel. I’ve; it’s something I’ve spoken to a few people about and they don’t necessarily believe you need them to race on as well. So, for me I’ve always tried to, I guess, balance that quite well in my diet, but I guess it’s finding you guys and your product and I guess reading and understanding a little bit more about the clean eating philosophy and things like that it’s made it a lot easier for me to make that decision to steer away from a lot more, simply because most carbohydrates are really processed, contain a lot of artificial preservatives and things like that. So, it’s really helped me, I guess, develop my thinking toward products like that. So, yes.

Guy Lawrence: I think as well, what we found over the years with athletes, that they generally eat, like you say, carbs, but they don’t carry any other nutrients. They sort of; it’s almost like they’re pure glucose, you know and there’s no actual vitamins, minerals and fiber and everything else that the body needs to help recover as well, you know, to get up and do it all over again.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Absolutely.

Guy Lawrence: I think it’s a good message.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Well, that’s something to really think about. Every meal I make I try and think about all those vitamins and minerals my body needs. In the past I’ve had problems with things like low vitamin B, low iron and I’m also; I do have hypoglycemia. So, for me I know when I’m not putting the right things in my body, because I can go training and within 20 minutes into the session I’ll be having a hypo. So, for me, that’s; and as I’ve gotten older I noticed my episodes happening more and more often, so that was a real turning point as well, But being able to eat properly so those things don’t happen, because when it’s inhibiting my training that’s really, really negative.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. And have you been noticed improvements with that since you’ve been eating more whole foods and things like that?

Rebecca Creedy: Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, I can’t actually remember the last time I had one. I did get to a XXstage?XX [:22:49.3] point where I had to keep gels and all sorts of things in my bag just because I never knew when I was going to have one. And it’s a horrible feeling. You just start shaking and you just feel like you’ve got nothing in you because you probably don’t. So, for me, every meal I make like, even when I make a salad, I don’t use lettuce, I use spinach leaves. I just think about little things like that. It’s how can I get the most out of this meal and to put the best things into my body as possible.


Guy Lawrence: When we do the seminars Stu, you always mention that, right?

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. We call it super charging your plate. So like you just said, if you, if you’re going to make a salad, how can you super charge it? And so you’ve gone for the most nutrient kind of dense, kind of leaf and then we’d look at putting it in some, well let’s add some nuts, and seeds and olive oil and get some quality proteins and you know, more of the natural fats as well. And that kind of mindset on every meal that you prepare can really set you up for really enhanced health moving forward, because you just get more nutrients into your body, which is a fantastic thing.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Absolutely. And that’s what I love about, I guess, the 180 Nutrition supplement, as well, is I can integrate it into my diet in more ways than one. I don’t just have to have it as a shake. I love making my porridges in the morning and I throw that in there and it gives it that extra flavor. I add some berries to give me my antioxidants. I have my yogurt. Just little things like that, that it all just kind of works together and it’s really easy to throw something together with it to make a meal instead of just a supplement.

Guy Lawrence: It takes time though, right? It doesn’t happen overnight? You can’t just go, “right” and switch in and expect results. It’s a lifestyle.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Absolutely and that’s why I don’t like using the word “diet,” because I’ve never really been one to diet and it’s just; I do what I need to do to make my body feel good.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: And that’s like they say, “It’s a lifestyle.” and it can be hard sometimes. When I’m traveling a lot and overseas and you’re trying to look for a quick meal, it can be really tough and sometimes I do revert back to my old habits and I do notice it.

Guy Lawrence: And there good reminders, right?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I had a nice wake-up call one Monday morning after the Nutri-Grain series when I had a bit of a shindig on the last night and XXunintelligibleXX [:25.22.5] things like that any more. So …

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. Tell me about it.

Rebecca Creedy: You know, as you grow up you’re kind of better at making those kinds of decisions and choices and, yeah, you realize that there are other options out there and especially the way supermarkets are these days. It’s really becoming an accepted way to eat and it makes it a lot easier ducking down to the supermarket to pick up the ingredients you need that five years ago you wouldn’t have seen on the shelves.


Stuart Cooke: Yeah, exactly.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. So …

Stuart Cooke: So, what about, thinking about food on your race days, how do you structure your food? What do you prepare and eat on those kind of critical days?

Rebecca Creedy: You know, look, it’s dependent on what’s available. I love having a cooked meal before a race, if I can. I’m a big mushroom eater. So, for me a nice big plate of spinach with some mushrooms on top and a couple of poached eggs is fantastic for me. I love some sweet potato pancakes in there too. They’re always good and a great form of carbs.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: But you know sometimes, especially when you’re racing away, it’s not always that easy. We need to be down on the beach quite early so, without that available I love getting a nice natural muesli and adding my 180 Nutrition protein to it. And then I mix it in with some natural yogurt, plain natural yogurt, as low-sugar as possible and I just like to sweeten that up with some berries. And I really find that that really gives me the kick I need to kind of carry on, carry on through the day, because most of the time, you know, I’m down on the beach at 7 o’clock in the morning and don’t really get my next meal until about lunchtime. So, yeah, it can be tough when you’re racing sometimes to get something into your system that’s going to last that kind of period.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. I find the whole thing fascinating. I think the message is getting out there to more and more with athletes, because we get a lot more inquires from endurance athletes especially as well. And because we’ve got Sami Inkinen coming on the podcast next week and he’s a tri-athlete. But him and his wife rowed from California to Hawaii and …

Rebecca Creedy: Really?

Guy Lawrence: And physically rowed and it took them 44 days and they were rowing; what was it Stu? Fourteen to eighteen hours a day. And they did it all on whole foods with no gels or anything and the message was just to, you know, avoid sugar and actually XXunintelligibleXX[:28:04.0] …

Stuart Cooke: XXunintelligibleXX [:28:04.2] I think to highlight the importance of real food. And I think the message is kind of clear that no one diet suits everyone. We’re all so radically different and you know, what works for me won’t work for Guy and may work for you. We just got to find that sweet spot and you know what it is, because you feel fantastic, your sleep’s good, your energy’s good and you know, your health just feels great. So, it’s really important just to keep trying and testing and I think our bodies change over time as well. What we ate in our teens doesn’t work in our 20s to our 30s and 40s, so on. So, you just got to find what works for you, I think.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Look, I completely agree and it’s something that as I’ve gotten older I love reading and researching about what people are talking about and I don’t know if you guys watched Catalyst last night. They actually had a big thing about carbohydrates and the guy that actually originated making gels and he was the first one to stand there and say, “I was completely wrong.”

Guy Lawrence: Oh wow!

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, and it’s really amazing. So, if you can get on and look that up, I only saw part of it. I want to go and finish watching it, actually, and it talks about carbohydrates and how our body uses them and how we shouldn’t be relying on them as much. And it was really amazing to hear researchers that were actually the, I guess, the first stepping stone in that process of thought, standing there and saying, “No, I totally disagree with what I wrote ten years ago.” So, that’s quite an amazing thing to see people like that in their fields.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. It’s exciting. You know, new science is springing up every single day and we’re finding out things that we just didn’t have access to years ago and it’s, it’s certainly now we’ve got a whole barrage of information that can help us in the right direction.

Rebecca Creedy: I’m a science-based person and I just love reading about it. For me; anything I find, something I want to try, I want to go read the science on that first and …


Stuart Cooke: Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: And the ABC have done a fantastic job. You know, they’re always bringing out great messages around nutrition and making people sort of think twice about what they’re doing.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. No, and it’s good to see someone going out and doing the science instead of standing there and saying, you know, people are so quick to say “Paleo’s wrong.” But why? Not many people looking for the reason why it is. So…

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Guy Lawrence: And I think, as well, when you’re an athlete like yourself that is putting so much demands on your body, it really then highlights how powerful nutrition is, because, you know like you said yourself, the more actuate your nutrition is, the more you can continue to recover quicker, feel better and do it all over again. You know, if you’re sitting on a chair all day doing nothing, you can get away with a lot more, but it just shows you the effects of nutrition, I think, when you get to that level, you know what can happen.

Rebecca Creedy: I can even feel it some days. When I’ll get up and do my 4:30 set, I’ll be up at 4:30 doing my 5 o’clock session and I’ll come home, I’ll have a sleep, I’ll eat, obviously, have a sleep. And some days I honestly can’t even think of training until 4 o’clock in the afternoon and I can actually feel the time, it’s about 2:30, 3 o’clock, my body finally starts to say, “Okay, your ready to do another session now.” So, every now and then I’ll try and do a 2 o’clock session and I just go, “no.” My body’s not ready to get back into it yet and it’s seems like that, you know, you need to listen to and learn those responses and when your body’s saying “yes” and “no” and things like that.

Stuart Cooke: Always. Absolutely right.

Guy Lawrence: So … go on Stu.

Stuart Cooke: Well, Guy, I was just going to jump in and just ask about winding down and relaxing.. So, you’re so fast-paced and you’ve got this manic training schedule and competition schedule. What do you do to wind down? How do you relax?

Rebecca Creedy: I’m not very good at relaxing. I actually work in the surf club upstairs, so I actually work as a bartender and waitress, which can also make it even harder to wind down sometimes.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: You know, at work I have to be very happy and personable and things like that and sometimes I get home and it’s like all I want to do is just sit in a corner and not talk to anyone for an hour.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: So, it’s definitely important that I get my “me time” and actually, I actually find training helps that. The one thing about being a swimmer is you get to spend a lot of time by yourself. And, yeah, so spending that time on the black line [:32:59.3] and thinking about me and it can sometimes be a great way to chill out and I actually; if I don’t exercise I find I go a little bit nuts.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. I can completely appreciate that, especially with the swimming aspect, because we do a fair bit of ocean swimming and when you get out there into the rhythm, it’s almost mediation. You know, you’re going through the motions of stroking and turning and you can swim for an hour or so and just process thoughts and just kind of you know, de-stress that way. That’s kind of what we do too, definitely get out there and just immerse yourself in some way where you’re not constantly thinking about other stuff. It’s great to kind of switch off the mind, it you can.

Rebecca Creedy: I’m a real nature lover. I have a degree in environmental science, so for me just getting out and being with nature, whether it’s going for a walk in the bush or something like that. I love taking my dog out and just getting away from it. And, yeah, you know, being on the ocean and being out there and feeling nature and it does relax you and it kind of takes away all the pressures and strains. It doesn’t expect anything from you. So, yeah, that’s probably my biggest cure.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, I like it. I like it.

Guy Lawrence: I want to touch on, quickly on sleep before we move on. How many hours a night do you sleep, Rebecca, normally?

Rebecca Creedy: Um …

Guy Lawrence: Or day and night or …

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah look, I probably don’t get as much as I should. I’m not; I’ve never been a good sleeper. I go through phases where I sleep really well and then other phases where I don’t. I have trouble switching off, is my biggest problem. So, I find when I’m not training I actually sleep about four or five hours a night sometimes. But when I’m training I try to get at least six hours, seven hours is usually the main, like six to seven hours is probably standard. And then if I can get an hour or two during the day that’s brilliant, but I don’t like to rely on daytime sleeps because I used to sleep a lot during the day when I was pool swimmer and I find it’s just a bad habit.


Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: It’s nice to use it as recovery and things like that, but when I have to work a lot of the time during the day and I have to start sleeping regularly, I find it really throws out my body clock. I find it harder to sleep at night and I really like to just try and stick to a pattern. So, for me I try to be in bed by 10 o’clock at the latest. You know, it just gets hard with life. I get home from training at 6:30 at night and then I have to make dinner and I have to clean up and then I like to have my wind-down time and things like that. So, it can get quite hectic, but as I said, you know, the hardest part in the morning is getting up and once you’re in that water and …

Guy Lawrence: It’s all worth it.

Rebecca Creedy: And, yeah it is and it’s just you and your thoughts and you working against yourself and pushing yourself to the next level and it’s; it’s amazing what your body can do and work off. I don’t believe I feel sleep-deprived most of the time.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: I get my weekend to catch up and then I’m ready to go again.

Stuart Cooke: Again, it’s finding what works for you and again, sleep is such a hot topic. You know my sleep is all over the place too and I’m constantly trying to find what works for me and you just got to dial into these little nuances that just assist you in get in that extra quality, I guess.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, because my other problem is, is that I find when I start sleeping in I’ll have a sleep in morning one morning and then it throws me off for the next night and I can’t get to sleep at night and things like that. I think sometimes I think I’m not getting enough sleep, but I think I also don’t necessarily work as efficiently when I have to much sleep either. So, it’s finding the balance and taking what you need when you need.

Stuart Cooke: Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: Exactly.

Stuart Cooke: What we’re going to do as well, just; we want to just back track a little bit into nutrition and we generally ask every guest this question as well. What did you eat yesterday and just blitz through maybe just breakfast to evening meal, just because people …

Guy Lawrence: Are curious.

Stuart Cooke: … want to eat; people are curious, they want to eat like and IronWoman. Absolutely.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah. Look I guess for breakfast I had; I basically try to eat the same thing as often as possible in the mornings, as I can. Especially being an athlete it’s really important that my body knows what it’s; I like to do it as a racing thing particularly every day before an Iron session, I’ll eat the same thing that I’m going to eat probably on race day. So …

Guy Lawrence: Right

Rebecca Creedy: I have my muesli, my natural muesli, followed with two scoops of the chocolate protein powder …

Stuart Cooke: Yep, yep.

Rebecca Creedy: … a plain all natural yogurt and some frozen berries mixed through that as well and I find that’s a great, a great meal, especially at the moment when I’m having a lot of wake up training, because it really ties over my hunger as well. And yesterday I had to work all day so, yeah, it’s great for when I’m at work because I can’t necessarily just grab a snack if I want to.

And then for the evening meal, I love a good steak so, for me it was a nice big piece of steak …

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Creedy: … and again, just a natural salad. So, I have heaps of spinach leaves, tomato, capsicum, snow peas, cucumbers. I do like my cheese, so I like to put a bit of feta in there and then just a balsamic and olive oil dressing. So, for me that really hits the spot. For my boyfriend, though, he insists that he has to have garlic bread with it. That keeps him happy. That keeps me happy.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, that’s what it’s all about, that’s what it’s all about.

Rebecca Creedy: It can be hard to balance meals sometimes when you’ve got someone isn’t so concerned about their nutrition.

Stuart Cooke: Exactly. Keep the home a happy one is what I say.

Guy Lawrence: Exactly.

Rebecca Creedy: Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: So, we’ve got one more question that we always ask on the show as well and this can be related to anything. What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Rebecca Creedy: Keeping yourself happy, I think. Putting yourself first. Yeah. Without you being happy, you know, a lot of what you do is a waste of time and I particularity find that with training. If I’m not happy my results show it. As I said again, I’m not happy when I wake up at 5 o’clock in the morning every day of the week. So for me, if I feel like I need I call, I think they call it these days a “mental health day.” I give myself a mental health day regularly. Some days I just have a day off training and I go do something that I wouldn’t have time to do otherwise and I go do shopping and I go to my favorite shop, which is Lululemon and I go there and I buy myself something nice and it makes me feel better and then the next day I’m ready to attack what I’m doing and do it properly and do it at a better, I guess, at a better effort level than I would have if I hadn’t a taken that time. So, I think it’s just knowing when to step back and reassess and I guess mentally build yourself up and get ready to do what you need to do.

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic.

Stuart Cooke: I like it. I completely agree with that and I’m going to take the rest of the day off Guy.

Guy Lawrence: Are you going to go clothes shopping, Stu?

Stuart Cooke: I am. I’m going to get something from Lululemon.

Rebecca Creedy: I know, it’s really sad when your favorite shop’s like a sport shop, isn’t it?

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, what does that tell you.

Rebecca Creedy: I don’t know, but it’s good. I can wear them into the gym and then I can wear them out of the gym.

Guy Lawrence: Exactly.

Stuart Cooke: They do make some good clothes. I’ll give you that.

Guy Lawrence: So, what does the future hold for you, Rebecca? What’s coming up? Do you know?


Rebecca Creedy: Yes. This week, as I said, has been a bit of a wind-down for me. It’s coming towards, I guess, the series has ended, but we’ve still got; we’ve got State Team coming up on Australia Day actually, down in Sydney at Manly Beach. So, I’m looking forward to that. We’ll have three days of competition at three different carnivals. So, that will be a little bit intense. But, mainly that’s a fun competition. It takes off a little bit of the pressure, I guess, not having, you know, the 15 girls for the series fighting it out. It’s all about getting there and racing, having a good time, making mistakes and catching up with people you don’t get to see very often. Then we go on to state titles, for Queensland state titles. And that will be, I think it’s in February and then I finish off the year in April with the Australian titles, which is; it’s all about the club racing for those two and I’m a member of BMD Northcliffe and they’ve been the Australian champion club, I think, for ten years now. So, I’m looking forward to racing for them in some team events and again taking our team to the next level and taking out that title again. So …

Stuart Cooke: I think they’re probably looking forward to you racing for them as well, aren’t they?

Rebecca Creedy: Oh yeah. Yeah, no, we’ve got some great girls in our club. You know, we all love racing as much as each other, so it’s great to be part of a team that all have similar goals and that want to go out there and do the best for the club and also for themselves. So, yeah, it will definitely be an interesting off season I’m sure.

Stuart Cooke: Fantastic.

Guy Lawrence: Awesome. And go on, Stu, are you going to speak?

Stuart Cooke: Well, I was just going to literally; you know, for people who want to find more about you, where would they go? What would be the best place to a bit more of Rebecca Creedy?

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, look there’s been, we’ve got the Kellogg’s Nutri-Grain IronWoman website now, which has, it’s got a profile in there of me and also some personal questions that I’ve answered as well. And so, that’s one thing. But I’m also on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and I’m pretty easy to find, because I’m the only Rebecca Creedy really in the world, which is quite convenient. But, yeah, I have the same name for all of them, which is Bec Creedy, so that’s beccreedy and that’s my user name for all three accounts.

Guy Lawrence: We’ll put some links there, because I know you update your Facebook page on a regular basis with all your swims and skis.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, we’re getting right into it. So, no, I think people definitely appreciate seeing pictures and things like that, so I try to stay on top of that some and even get a little bit of insight into my personal life as well.

Stuart Cooke: Exactly. Fantastic. Sounds great.

Guy Lawrence: That was phenomenal. Thanks so much for coming on the show and I have not doubt everyone going to get a lot out of that, when they listen to that. Awesome.

Rebecca Creedy: Thank you.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah and we hope to see you in Manly then, in Sydney, in our neck of the woods.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, yeah. I’ll have to drop you a line and let you know and we’ll catch up for a XXunintelligibleXX [:44:37.3].

Guy Lawrence: Absolutely.

Stuart Cooke: Let’s do that. We’ll see if we can get Guy in his Coogee Club Speedos.

Rebecca Creedy: Actually, I’m going to be in Bondi, too. I think I’m staying in Bondi the Monday after Australia Day.

Stuart Cooke: OK.

Guy Lawrence: OK. Good.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, I’m not going back till Tuesday, so …

Stuart Cooke: Right next door.

Rebecca Creedy: Yeah, well Courtney [:44:55.9] and I are coming and having a girls’ weekend. So, staying for an extra night or two.

Stuart Cooke: We might gate-crash you for a cup of coffee.

Rebecca Creedy: Sounds good. Sounds good.

Stuart Cooke: Okay. That is brilliant. Again, thank you so much for your time, really appreciate it. Its been awesome.

Guy Lawrence: Awesome.

Rebecca Creedy: Awesome. Thanks so much guys. I really appreciate it.

Guy Lawrence: Thank you.

Stuart Cooke: Thanks Bec.

Rebecca Creedy: All right.

Stuart Cooke: It’s good to see you.

How Meditation Cured My Wolf of Wall Street Lifestyle

Tom Cronin

 

The above video is 3 minutes long.

Imagine living the lifestyle of Jordan Belfort of the Wolf of Wall Street… it would be no surprise if you didn’t last to long! That’s how our special guest for the show this week, Tom Cronin once lived. He openly shares with us how this lifestyle led to depression, anxiety and ill health whilst being told he can’t be cured and would need anti-depressants. Tom searched for other means and found meditation, and he hasn’t looked back since.

Tom Cronin Full Interview

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Tom Cronin is the founder of the Stillness Project. He has been teaching meditation for many years now and has inspired thousands of people all over the world as a teacher, author and keynote speaker to unlock peoples stillness and calm with meditation.

He has been featured on national TV in Australia, The Sydney Morning Herald, Huffington Post and Vogue magazine to name a few.

downloaditunesIn this episode we talk about:-

  • Yes, people out there live like Jordan Belfort did!
  • The one style of mediation that Tom now uses for effectiveness
  • What meditation is and where it originated
  • How to quieten a really busy mind
  • Why stress can be so damaging and how to overcome it
  • How to start a daily meditation practice when it feels all too hard
  • And much much more…

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Enjoy the interview or got any questions for Tom or us? We’d love to hear them in the comments below… Guy

Transcription

Guy

Hey, this Guy of 180 Nutrition and welcome to the Health Sessions. You know, we cover a lot of subjects on our podcast, obviously, regarding health and most of it revolves around nutrition and a little bit about exercise. But one thing we’ve been keen to delve into as well is, obviously, the power of the mind and stress and how that can affect the body as well.
And so we’re very excited to have Tom Cronin on the show today talking about meditation, something that I grapple with a lot and it doesn’t come easy to me. So, we are very excited to have Tom on.

Now, Tom has been teaching meditation for many years. He’s inspired literally thousands and thousands of people all over the world as a meditational teacher and author and a keynote speaker. And he’s all about unlocking people’s stillness and calmness with meditation. He’s a fantastic guy, too.

He’s featured on the national TV for Australia, Sydney Morning Herald, Huffington Post, and Vogue magazine as well, to name a few.

Tom has an amazing story, too. He was a bonds trader in his early 20s and earning a massive amount of money and he said he’d compared his life very similar to the Wolf of Wall Street. So, you can only imagine he wasn’t going to last too long living that lifestyle. And, yes, he burnt out and then turned to meditation and has been teaching that for over 10 years.

So, I’m sure you’re going to get a massive amount out of this today, just as much as myself and Stu did.

If you are listening to this through iTunes, please leave a review. It takes two minutes to do. We know we’re reaching a lot of people out there, and, yeah, any feedback, fantastic. And the iTunes reviews help us get found easier and help us continue to get this good word out there of all the work we do. And, of course, come over to our website, 180Nutrition.com.au. We’ve got heaps of free stuff on there, too, and massive more amount of resources to help you get fitter and healthier every day. So, anyway, let’s go over to Tom, and enjoy the show. Awesome. Let’s get into it, hey?

Tom

Yeah, let’s do it!
Guy

So, I’m Guy Lawrence. I’m joined by Stuart Cooke, as always. Hey, Stewie.

Stuart

Hi.

Guy

And our awesome guest today is Mr. Tom Cronin. Tom, welcome.

Tom

Hey, everyone. Great to be here.

Guy

Fantastic. I’m very excited about this topic today. It absolutely fascinates me. But before we dig into the world of meditation, because I know Stewie’s keen on this one, too, can you share us your journey to what led you to being heavily involved in medication? Because it’s an awesome, inspiring story, I think.

Tom

Yeah. People seem to like this story. You know, the story started a long time ago, actually, when I was in finance. I started out as a broker when I was 19 years old and I just walked in off the street, basically, was looking for a job before I went to uni and didn’t really expect to be in finance at all.

I was gonna be a journalist, the Macquarie Uni, I had a few months to fill in before I went off to do my degree. And, you know, this was back in the late ’80s and the finance industry was booming. I was the old Gordon Gekko Wolf of Wall Street type. You know, you hear of Bonfire of the Vanities and Masters of the Universe and they were really expanding the bond market. And I took a job as a trainee.

It was crazy times, you know? I was on really big salaries really quickly. They gave us corporate expense accounts where we just basically were told, “Take clients out.” Which, our clients were the bankers. The traders. And our job was to basically entertain them and inspire them to do business with you. And our job was to XXclear their risk 0:03:41.000XX in the day and there was like a lot of turnover, you know, multiple millions and billions of dollars worth of bonds.

And I was young, you know, and we were just like young kids off the block doing crazy stuff. So, if anyone’s seen Wolf of Wall Street, the movie, it was literally like that. It was really, seriously like that. He started in 1987, the same year as me. He was 22. I was 19. We both started in 1987, and it was crazy times. We were doing crazy things.

And what happened with me successively over the years was I went further down that path of doing crazy stuff and getting way off track. And that let to symptoms.

Any time you start doing things that aren’t really aligned with natural law or aligned with harmony and peace, then you’re gonna get symptoms like the little red light on the dashboard. And I started getting insomnia and anxiety and then, you know, I kept doing the same thing over and over again. Eventually it really exacerbated into these full-blown panic attacks and depression.

And, again, I still didn’t stop. I was still doing the same thing. You know: doing some crazy stuff. I don’t want to go into too much detail. But, you know, let’s just say there was very little sleep, lots of late nights, and really high-energy work. And then that manifested further because, you know, the symptoms will just exacerbate if you don’t change tack.

And I kept doing the same thing and eventually I got agoraphobia. So, I couldn’t leave the house. I was just like ridiculous fear and panic and depression and I was a basket case.
I managed to get out of the house and down to the doctor’s, one day where I was having, like, a full-blown meltdown, and the doctor said, “Look. This is what’s happening. You need to take pharmaceuticals, we’ll send you to the top psychiatrist. And I went into the top psychiatrist and, to be honest with you, I wasn’t impressed. His diagnosis was, “Hey, you’re a stressful person by nature. We need to put you on antidepressants.”

I didn’t buy that. It was something in me. I didn’t know anything about what was happening to me, but I just didn’t buy that diagnosis. It was the most demoralizing thing I’d ever heard in my life, to be honest with you.

And I kind of was, like, sentenced to a lifetime of antidepressants. Now, I just didn’t feel like that was right. So, I started looking into alternatives. And, you know, I just knew I had to start doing something with my mind. And I knew some mind control was needed. So I looked into meditation. I didn’t know anything about meditation, but I just, back in those days, there was no internet. This was in 1996. And I had to get the big yellow pages book out, you know? We use these as door stoppers to stop the wind from shutting the front door.

So I’m going through the yellow pages looking for meditation. And I just rang all these different numbers. And went to different XX???? talks 0:06:11.000XX and different sessions and eventually I just found one that I really connected with. It was very science-based. It was very quick. Very powerful. Very effective.

So, that’s really what I did is I learned that technique of meditation. It was like a XXVedic meditation 0:06:25.000XX; transcendental meditation style. That’s what I’ve been teaching that same technique for the last many, many years now and practicing that technique for the last 18 years.

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Guy

Did you have to hit rock bottom before you started looking into alternative means? Like, is that a normal case scenario?

Tom

Only for stubborn, pig-headed people like myself. I’m a Scorpio so it’s my natural nature to be stubborn and pig-headed and, you know, most people ideally wouldn’t want to have to get to that point.

And, you know, we can get hints. We can get little hints, little guidance, from our body, from nature. Little messages come through each day. But, you know, for me, I was just ignoring them, that’s all. I was given those hints years before. And I could have done something different, but like Einstein’s definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again expecting different a different result. And eventually I got insanity.

Stuart

Wow

Guy

Fantastic

Tom

But, you know, that was the best thing for me. I was the sort of guy who had to get really slapped in the face for me to listen.

Guy

But you knew they were warning signs at the time? So, you just, like, “Well, whatever.” Just brush it off?

Tom

I thought it was normal to lie in bed two hours before falling asleep and then wake up at 3 a.m. in the morning, wide awake, with insomnia. You know, I just lived with that for years.
Going home at 3, 4 in the morning, guys around me, colleagues, sleeping under the desk and wearing the same clothes the next day at work because they’ve been at a bar or nightclub; strip club, whatever, until 4 or 5 in the morning, going to work for two hours, XXsleeping 0:08:00.000XX, and start the day again. Well, that was normal for us.

Guy

That’s incredible.

Stuart

So, for everyone out there that isn’t completely familiar with meditation, what; how would you define meditation and where did it originate from?
Tom

That’s a good question. Where it originated from, we’ll start with that one. I mean, no one; it’s just so far back that no one really can definitively say. I mean, a lot of the origins are looking like India. I mean, to honest with you, I’m not an authority on the origins of meditation, but it looks like it has come from, you know, thousands and thousands of years ago. I mean, I’ve got texts like the Bagavad Gita was supposedly written somewhere around between 2000 B.C. and 5000 B.C. And they start the Bagavad Gita talking about, you know, ancient times. You know? That they were using these practices.

So, it could go back as far as 10,000 years. They would talk about enlightened ages and golden ages, XXaudio problem 0:09:03.000XX of enlightenment. Many, many thousands of years ago.

And, like quite often happens, knowledge gets lost. It gets diluted as it gets passed down. And so it eroded.

But, you know, that’s looking like the origins of this sort of style. And for meditation, it really can be so diverse. You know, I practice a particular style of meditation using mantras. And what I do is, to make things simple for people, I condense it down into four distinct categories.

And you’ve got concentration meditations where almost you’re putting mindfulness in this category, when you’re using your mind to concentrate, focus on one particular point. And it’s about honing that attention into one specific target, which might be a breath, it might be a third eye, it might be a candle. Whatever it is.

Then you’ve got the contemplation meditation. So, this is where you’ve got some guidance going on. You’ve got someone taking you through a sequence, someone talking to you, someone really in the background or some music in the background doing something for you; going through your chakras.

So, in the contemplation, you’re still engaged in the mind. The mind is still active. There’s still movement within the mind. There’s still fluctuations. And because of that, there’s still going to be fluctuations within the body and movements within the body.
And you’ve got chanting meditations, which are like chanting things out loud: XX“om dimashiba, om dimashiba, om dimashiba, hari hari om, hari hari om, hari hari om.” 0:10:30.000XX

Chanting meditations, they can be sort of bringing the attention down to a single point by saying something out loud. There’s still activity. You’re verbalizing something. You’re thinking something. There’s some movement. There’s some movement going on.

 

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Guy

Something that sprang to mind, it might seem like a big question: What’s the purpose of the outcome of meditations? It is simply to still the mind?

Tom

You know, it can come from so many different things. It can have so many different objectives. And it’s going to depend on each individual person. Someone might want to have a connection to God. I can have four people come to me on a weekend course and say, “I just want to get rid of anxiety.” One might say, “I just want to sleep better.”

One might say, “I want to experience my higher self.” One might say, “I want to dissolve my ego and become one with the field of the cosmos.” I can teach all four of them the same course, slightly skew the dialogue, and they will all get exactly what they were looking for.

Guy

There you go.

Tom

And you can have someone start with, take for me, personally, my example: I started wanting to get rid of anxiety and depression. So, there was a pain point I wanted to be removed. Like, a splinter is in my foot. I wanted to tend to that and get the point out.

But now, after 20 years, my purpose of meditation isn’t to get rid of anxiety/depression. That went after weeks. Now, why do I meditate? Why do I sit down each day to meditate? To me, it’s the experience, the oneness, the feeling of oneness to merge with that cosmos. To merge with that universality. To experience the ultimate essence and define my ultimate truth. And to remove the layers of illusion and ignorance.

Guy

There you go. That’s very different than just removing anxiety, isn’t it?
Do you think everybody should be meditating, Tom?

Tom

That’s a really good question. I think everyone would benefit from meditating, absolutely. I think the planet would be an incredibly different place if we all meditated. And that’s my goal. My inspiration is to inspire one billion people to meditate daily.
I know we’d have a lot less angst, a lot less suffering, a lot less fear, a lot less anger, if we were meditating. But I don’t believe in “shoulds” or “shouldn’ts.” It’s something that we need to find our own way.

Stuart

So, where would be the best place to start if you were completely new to the concept of meditation. What would I do? Where would I go?

Tom

Just give me a call.

Stuart

We’ll put your local number on the site.

Tom

Don’t do that! There’s so many different ways to start. You know, some people say, the technique that I teach, they think it’s an intense practice, because it’s all about transcending. And this is one of the four ones that I didn’t get to finish. There was the three categories that I gave you: concentration, contemplation, chanting. But the fourth one is the one I’ve been doing for 20 years, and it’s a very different practice. And it’s a transcending style meditation using mantras.

You know, these mantras are repeated internally, quietly inside your head. And the mantra is like the carrot in front of the donkey. It’s a very effective mechanism to still the mind because the natural soothing quality of that sound.

And once we understand the nature of the mind, you’ll understand why this meditation technique is a very effective style of meditating, because the mind is always looking for something that’s charming.

The mind is like a little kid, right? You put a little boy, 4 years old, in the corner and he will get bored very quickly. Because he’s looking for something to entertain him. He’s fascinated by things. He wants to explore. And so that will boy will get bored of sitting still and he will start to wander.

And that’s like the mind. It will get bored of sitting still and it will start to wander, because it’s looking for something charming, and thinking is an incredibly charming proposition for the mind.

But when we introduce a sound to repeat effortlessly over and over again, the mantra, the mind finds this really charming. It’s so fascinating. We call these bija mantras, b-i-j-a, and they’re seed mantras that take the mind away from the gross expressed state down into the subtler states. And the mind will do that because of the natural charming quality of those mantras.

And eventually the mind will transcend thought altogether. And when the mind transcends thought, that is the mind has now gone to a place where it’s conscious and awake, but there’s no more fluctuations of the mind.

And the reason the mind will go there and stay there is because it’s found the ultimate source of bliss and charm, and that’s what we call true consciousness.

Stuart

The chatter stops.

Tom

The chatter stops.

Guy

Is that like; I’ve read that it’s just like a muscle. Is it that like a daily practice thing that you have to do to get better at it?

Tom

No. No. I’ve had people start transcending in the first week. If you were doing concentration meditation, that is a muscle that you need to flex. That will require effort. When you’re lifting a weight, which is a good analogy, thanks for using that; when you’re lifting a weight, you need to develop a muscle so that you can lift that weight more easily. And the same thing with concentration is that you’re forcing something to do something that it doesn’t want to do. The mind does not want to stay still, and you need to use force and a concentration meditation to get that mind to do something that it’s not trained to do or doesn’t want to do. Just as lifting the weight is a force. It’s a friction.

But in transcending style meditations, we don’t use force, we don’t use effort, we don’t try. It’s actually the complete opposite. It’s a gentle idea that we entertain inside our mind. We’re happy to surrender that mantra at any given point in time, because when the mind gets close to transcendence, it will go, “I don’t need this mantra anymore. I found something even more entertaining than the repetition and sound, and that’s pure consciousness. It’s so beautiful. It’s so blissful. I’ll just be residing here in this nectar of oceanic awareness.”

 

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Stuart

“Well, I certainly want some of that.”
Well, that does sound very appealing.

Tom

Yeah. It’s; there’s this beautiful realm that people don’t know exists behind the mind. You know, I just had a group of people from all over the world: Colombia, Brazil, Canada, USA, England, Australia, on retreat in Maui. They’d never meditated before, most of these people. And they were immersing themselves in such mind-blowing richness and beauty and glory and magnificence. There were realms that they were accessing they never knew existed before. And that’s because we used a simple vehicle, which is the mantra, to get into that space.

Guy

Like, because you, Stu, you admitted yourself, you’ve got a very active mind, right?
Stuart Cooke: I have such a busy mind. Like, such a busy mind. It doesn’t switch off, you know. I can wake up at 3 o’clock in the morning and I feel like I’ve just come out of a board meeting. I’m wired, thinking about a billion things.

And, you know, I have given meditation a go. But, crikey, it’s like I’m sitting in a cinema and everyone’s talking at the same time. You know, I really, really, really struggle. And so, you know, where would I go, because I’m guessing you’ve probably dealt with a billion people like me.

Tom

Yeah. Again, it comes back to, you know, what do you want to experience? You can start with simple apps like, you know, there are some apps out there where you can do some guided meditations. But, for me, personally, you can fluff around at the edges, dither and dather for 12 months, 24 months, trying meditations that are gonna be really difficult and really challenging, you’ll not really feel like you’re getting anywhere.

Or you can cut straight to the chase and do the meditation that I suggest that everyone should be doing, and it’s probably the most popular meditation that’s spreading across the world. It’s the one Oprah does. It’s the one Hugh Jackman does. The one Ellen DeGeneres does. It’s the one I’ve been doing for 20 years.

Why have I been doing it for 20 years? Because I’ve done all the research, I’ve tried all the meditations, for me, personally, and it’s not for everyone. Some meditations are gonna be better for other people, but for me personally, and for the students I’ve taught, I’ve never seen better results than the technique I teach. And that’s a transcending style meditation using mantras.

Now, if you’re telling me, “Look, Tom, I want to go off into a monastery in the Himalayas for the next 15 years. I don’t want to have to talk to anyone. I don’t want to be successful. I don’t want to have to have a girlfriend. I don’t want to have a mortgage. I don’t want to be dynamic. What do you suggest I do?” I’d say, “Don’t do my meditation.”

Because when you do this meditation, you will be so; you will start to become so successful and so drawn to doing amazing things in the world. This is an integrative meditation practice. You’ll get creative impulses that will blow you away where you’re, like, “God, I just can’t believe I had that idea. I’ve got to go and do something about that.” Whereas the renunciant concentration meditations are much more conducive to concentration meditations and much more conducive to that.

I just want to be; I want solitude. I want stillness. I want silence. I want to recluse from the world. And there’s something really beautiful about that practice. I don’t think it’s for you right now, personally, but if you wanted to do that, I would recommend a concentration meditation.

Stuart

Yeah, right.

Tom

And so it really depends what you want out of life, where you want to go, what you’re trying to achieve. If you want to dissolve stress, trying to sit in a chair and focus on your chakras, it’s going to be really hard work. With that said, focusing on your chakras is a really good meditation. But if you want to remove stress, you need to get deep levels of rest where your mind has become still, and metabolically your body’s dropped into a state of rest that’s equivalent to four times deeper than sleep. Then you need to do the transcending style meditations; the ones I teach.

Guy

You’d better do it, Stu.

Stuart

Well, I’m sold. Crikey.

Guy

You quickly mentioned chakras as well. Can you explain what that term means?

Tom

Yeah. I mean, we have many, many chakras through the body but we have seven main chakras. You’ve got your third eye, your throat, your crown chakra, your heart chakra, solar plexus. In every chakra, and then your base chakra. And so we’ve got all these different points, I guess, energy points, that are through our body and certain practices of meditation are about putting your attention on those energy points and clearing that point and seeing that it’s awakened.

In our world that we’re in in Sydney here and Western lifestyle, we’re quite dominant in our base chakra. So, the base chakra is all about survival, it’s about procreation, it’s about money. And that’s why we have a very grounded base chakra based, sort of focusing on XXtech? Tax? (audio glitch) 0:21:17.000XX and money so much in our lives. Whereas things like a heart chakra, where we just love unconditionally, we just love so openly, without fear, without conditions. It’s a totally different experience.

So, we don’t have very open heart chakras. Our crown chakra, our third eye chakra, is quite closed, because of stress and the nature of being obsessed about the base chakra.
So, for me, I was very base chakra dominant for a long time of my life. It’s taken me a long time to start opening up the other chakras. But, you know, I don’t teach a lot around that. It’s not my sort of niche. But it’s just something I’m aware of.

Guy Lawrence: A thought popped in as well, just we’re rewinding back a bit with the meditation. Like, if there’s somebody listening to this and, you know, the idea of meditation’s great, yeah, I want to do it. But, like you said, every time they go to sit down they get flustered and just move on.

And so, like, looking at it from a nutritional aspect, we hold clean eating workshops. And yet, even though we’re trying to teach people how to eat for life, we embrace them in a 30-day challenge. And we say, “Guys. Start with 30 days, commit to 30 days, and hopefully you’re gonna change enough habits to then go on and start eating better for your life.” You know? Could that work the same with your course of meditation, if we said, like, “Let’s do a 30-day challenge and then let’s see how we feel after that.” And then hopefully we’re gonna get the bug and, you know, keep going.
Tom

Yeah. Look, it’s interesting when you bring the word “challenge” and meditation together. I do have a 21-day program, which is my online meditation program. But I really like to let people do their own research. And I think that’s ultimately the best way for people to get results is that I’m gonna teach you a technique and this technique is gonna really change your life quite quickly. You’re gonna notice significant differences.

Now, a student said to me, “Oh, I dropped off my meditation. I’ve really noticed a difference.” I said, “Great. That’s fantastic. I’m happy that you dropped off your meditation, because now you have relativity and you can see through your own personal research what life’s like when you meditate and what life’s like when you don’t meditate.”
Now, if life’s better when you meditate, there’s your research. And if you don’t want to do it after that, then that’s fine. But you’d ask yourself why would you not want to do it.
Stuart

I think that answers my geek question, because I was going to ask how I could measure the effectiveness of it, either through. . .

 

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Tom

Yeah, it’s a good question. The difference will be for different people; the measurement for different people. Like, for me, what I noticed was I started sleeping immediately, as opposed to waiting one to two hours. That was the immediate effect within the first few days was that I would fall asleep when I put my head on the pillow. I thought, “Wow! That’s insane. I never had that for 10 years.”

Other people might go, “I get this euphoria. I get this blissfulness.” Other people I know, they started crying, because they were releasing emotions of sadness that were in their body. There’s a lot of purification that goes on when you start meditating.

So, the effectiveness of it will depend upon that person, the stress that’s in that individual, the stress that needs to come out of that individual, some get heightened euphoria, some get sexually aroused, some get the ability to sleep really well, some just feel light and blissful. Some feel quite uncomfortable, because they might have a lot of stuff inside, a lot of anger that they haven’t released. It’s sort of, “ahhhh,” coming out.

Guy

Just a release.

Tom

Yeah. Usually, the effectiveness will be measured by the sensations that they’re getting.

Guy 

Right.

Stuart

I guess everyone’s different so you will know if you feel different.

Tom

Yeah, absolutely. I had one client just recently that, there as a couple, a married couple, and they both learned with me. And the wife was just, like, “Oh, my God! This is amazing. I can’t believe it. This is like the best thing I’ve ever done. I just can’t believe how incredible I feel.” That was, like, two weeks later. The husband was completely the opposite. He was like down in the dumps, angry with the world, bitching and just gnarly as all heck. And I had a session with him and what had happened was that this person, all their life, had never been able to find their voice. I mean, just being pushed and shoved and accepted that. And meditation says, “That’s not your truth.”

Guy

Right.

Tom

And if that’s not your truth, you need to find your truth. And all of a sudden all that anger and all that being oppressed all his life, as a kid, was coming out. And so his experience was totally different. And yet they were doing exactly the same technique and the same course.

Stuart

That’s fascinating.

Guy

How much do you think stress affects our health, then, Tom? I mean, obviously you’ve been through a lot of stress. There’s a lot of stressed people out there. A lot of people holding things in, exactly like you said. And now they’ve got their voice. I mean, do you think that directly affects people’s health in a big way?

Tom

Yeah. I mean, Bruce Lipton, who’s the professor at Stanford University Medical School, he said in one of his papers that 95 percent of all sickness is a product of stress. And you can put that down to impaired vision; not eyesight, but impaired vision, awareness, in making poor decisions.
Because when you’re stressed, your brain operates in a completely different way. You go from being intuitive and creative and wise to just operating from primal survival. When you’re stressed, your metabolic rate changes. Your blood pressure changes. Your cholesterol levels change. I mean, when you’re stressed, everything becomes imbalanced. Everything becomes enormous. I’d say stress is one of the biggest killers we’ve got in our society. And the biggest negative impacts.

Because when you’re stressed, what do you do? You start drinking alcohol. When you’re stressed, you start smoking cigarettes. When you’re stressed, you start taking drugs. When you’re stressed, you eat shit food. I mean, it affects us in every single way in our life.

Guy

Definitely.

Stuart

So, what specific factors do you think, Tom, would inhibit meditation? I’m thinking of, well: Is it too noisy? Is it too light? You know. Are there too many distractions?

Tom

Time of day.

Stuart

Exactly. Because we’ll all be in these very different scenarios in our lives. What should we be wary of?

Tom

Um. You know, it’s gonna be almost impossible in our life, in the cities that we live in, to find a completely quiet space. Obviously, noise is gonna be one of the greatest challenges. It’s very distracting for people when there’s noise in the background.

But what we teach with this technique is that if you’re on a bus and there’s someone talking in front of you to their partner, there’s someone behind you on the phone, and there’s someone next to you listening to music on their headphones, you’re still in your headspace and you’re still thinking.
So, if you’ve got a mantra to repeat, you can repeat that mantra regardless, wherever you are. And that will, in effect, be a meditation. I used to meditate on the train nearly every day going to work.

So, noise isn’t really; it can be a distraction. I know being down at the beach where there’s waves moving around, people walking by, there’s some wind, I’m probably gonna have less a deep meditation than if I’m in a really quiet room or a quiet parked car.

Anywhere there’s limited movement, limited activity, limited noise, then it’s going to be more conducive to a meditation, particularly for beginners. But for more advanced people, you can meditate anywhere. I can meditate at a football game and still be OK.

Stuart

Oh, wow.

Tom

Yeah. You just learn to bring your awareness inward, through the training. But in the beginning, you know, there’s a lot of; your senses are continuously going externally, looking for the source of the noise or the smell or the feeling.

Guy

Another question that popped in there, and this seems, probably, a bit contradictory, but, like, if there’s a very busy person, and for this set amount of time you can shorten the meditation, are you going to get the same effect from five minutes as 20? Or does it vary?
Because I know, like, if you started meditating, Stu, the first thing you’d ask is, “Well, how long would I have to do it for?”

Stuart

Minimum effective dose.

Tom

There’s a lot of fancy gadgets coming out these days: five-minute meditations, one-minute meditations. It’s great that we pause. You know, it’s really important that we pause through the day. I think, depending on the meditation style, if you’re gonna do a deep, transcending-style meditation, minimum is 20 minutes. I mean, I don’t recommend you need more than 20. But 20 minutes, you know, 15 to 20 minutes. Under 15, you’re kind of not having enough time to XXdig inside 0:29:55.000XX your nervous system, to wind down the mind.

You know, we have such stimulated nervous systems, such stimulated minds, that it’s really just not enough time to get into those deeper states. I mean, that said, you can get into transcendence within three minutes. I’ve seen my students who come into my courses and come to my Monday night sessions and I have a look around the room and I can see them dropped into deep states within the first five minutes. But I think, for the rebalancing process to really take effect, I’d like to see 20 minutes for the meditation practice.

Guy

There you go. Is there a best time of day to do or do you just fit it in when you can or. . .”

Tom

Ideally, do one before breakfast and one; anytime, I’d say, between lunchtime and dinnertime. Ideally, I like between 3 and 6 o’clock is a nice time. Three and 7 o’clock in the afternoon is a good time. Before dinner.
And, again, it depends on your meditation. See, the transcending style meditation that I teach, the level of rest is so profoundly deep, it’s equivalent to about four hours’ sleep. A deep meditation; 20-minute meditation.

So, ideally you wouldn’t do that before bedtime, because if you had an equivalent of four hours’ sleep at 9 o’clock at night then it’s going to affect your deep sleep session. But if you’re gonna do, like we do a guided meditation before all the kids’ bed, so my family will all sit on the sofa at 8:30 before the kids are about to go to bed and we’ll put on one of my guided meditations and we’ll all sit there with a blanket and listen to 10 minutes of my guided meditation and what that does for the kids is it just XXde-excites? 0:31:26.000XX their nervous system after watching TV. It’s a lot of stimulation with the music and ads and all that sort of stuff going on on TV for 12-year-old kids’ nervous system. So we wind them down with a guided meditation before bed. And that’s a really effective thing to do. So, it depends on the meditation.

Stuart

It just reminded me of, you know, I said I don’t meditate. I have tried meditation once and I went to a; I was given a voucher for a class on; for this little place in Bondi. And I’m not the most open-minded sort of guy, so I thought, you know, OK, I will give it a go, but, you know, I don’t expect anything to come from it. And now I just remember sitting in this class with a lady; I was actually the only guy there and there were about 12 others in there and this lady was telling me to picture myself as a flower all curled up. And upstairs in this, I think it was like in a youth center, there was like junior karate. And every kind of three seconds, one of these chaps would be thrown on the; slammed on the floor. And I’m just trying to picture myself as a flower.

And then there was another guy outside tuning up his Harley-Davidson motorcycle. It was just; it was like a comedy for me, and that was my first experience and I thought, “You know, I don’t know whether this is for me or not.”

But I can see, through what you’ve told me, that that probably wasn’t the best experience and it’s something that I would really benefit from looking into.

Tom

Yeah. Yeah. It’s just, we can’t judge all meditation on that one experience. There are certainly other ways to do it.

Stuart

Are there any factors that could enhance that? I mean, can I drink a cup of chamomile tea and slide into meditation a little easier?

Tom

Definitely, lead-up to meditation is important. You know, you guys have come to my Monday night meditations and you’ll notice, you know, I turn off the overhead lights. I put candles on. We light incense. So, I deal with all five senses. I put on some nice, quiet music.

So, as soon as you walk in you’re getting a sense of your nervous system calming down. Your nervous system’s being prepared for something. I talk softly so you’re hearing soft voices. And it’s really a nice prelude, so people tend to go quite deep in those sessions. And that’s because I’ve prepared their physical body, their nervous system, their mind, for a deeper experience.

And we can do that on our own at home. You know, if you’ve been running around all day, just been shopping and being up at the XX junction wall? 0:34:15.000XX and you’ve been listening to the radio and having heaps of meetings all day and then you suddenly sit in a chair and start meditating, it’s gonna take you a lot longer than if you actually just: Take some time preparing your room, putting on some nice music, lighting some candles, getting some incense out, do some gentle breathing, maybe do a bit of yoga. And then you start your meditation. It’s going to be like a completely different experience.

 

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Guy

You’ve got to work at it, right? It’s not like: “Ah, let me finish this action movie and then, XXfeck it?? I figure?? 0:34:41.000XX, I’ve got to fly to my 10-minute meditation time and then. . .”

Tom

You can still do that. I mean, if you’re pushed for time, it’s still worth doing that. But if do it for a little bit of time, it’s the prep. Not every one is going to have time for the prep. So, it’s one of those things. . . Or the space for it. You know, you just get on a bus and all of a sudden you start meditating. You haven’t got time to light candles and sit them in front of you and burn some incense.

So, you know, there are certain times you just aren’t gonna do it. But it does; I think it does help.

Stuart

Have you ever meditated; you said you’ve meditated on the way to work. Have you ever missed your stop on the bus or the train?

Tom

I have, yes. I ended up; I was supposed to go to Martin Place. I ended up at Town Hall and Central. I told my work that’s why I was a little bit late that day.

Stuart

I’m guessing you probably don’t promote meditation while driving.

Tom

It’s not a good idea, no.

Guy

What; like, we ocean swim a lot. And I do a bit of yoga a couple of times a week as well. Is that a form of meditation?

Tom

Oh, yes, definitely. You know, anything that’s repetitive. Walking can be meditation. Swimming is a really meditative practice, particularly doing laps in a pool, looking at that little black line below you, it’s “breath, one, two, three, four, breathe, one, two, three, four, breathe.” It’s definitely a meditation.

What you’re not gonna get is metabolic rest. OK? So, mentally it is definitely a meditation. But physically, you’re not gonna have metabolic rest. So, in stillness, when the mind is still, and not moving in transcendence, your physical body’s oxygen requirement is almost zero, and it’s been proven metabolically that you are about four times metabolically deeper in rest than you would be in a deep sleep.

Guy

Wow. That’s incredible.

Stuart

I’m looking forward to getting into this. That’s for sure.

Tom

This is where the repair happens. So, the body is this incredible organism that has this intelligence within it that it will repair. It will operate and function at the highest level. We have sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. It’s a beautiful design by nature. We’re just not getting the levels of rest that are appropriate enough to get that deep healing process activated. And that’s what happens in meditation.

Like, for me, OK, I had anxiety, I had depression, I had insomnia, I had agoraphobia. Huge levels of distortion. Constantly getting sick. I didn’t have to take tablets. I didn’t have to see doctors. I didn’t have to see therapists. I just simply put my body in a deep level of rest twice a day, morning and evening. I had all the anomalies. I started producing serotonin, oxytocin, reduced adrenaline, norepinephrine, cortisol. I started healing on every level; started getting rest. And it was just a natural mechanism in my body to do that.

Guy

I’m inspired. I want to do it. I think high-end athletes would benefit greatly from this.

Tom

Yeah. A lot of high-level athletes are now starting to realize the power of meditation.

Guy

When you describe it like that, yeah.

Tom

Yeah. Yeah. It surprises people when I talk about it on a physical level, but it is just as much, if not more, a physical practice than it is a spiritual and mental one.

Stuart

What are your thoughts on the plethora of iPhone apps and gadgets out there? Is it something that we should be doing on our own, or can we plug in to technology?

Guy

XXFinding Real Bits?? 0:38:12.000XX is another one as well, isn’t it?

Tom

I mean, everything’s relevant. We’ve got technologies causing a lot of our problems in the world today, with stress levels and our constant attachment to acquiring information. But it’s also gonna be the source of the solution to the problem.

By my online program, I can now get meditation to people all over the world. I have people every day emailing us from Mexico, Kenya, Venezuela, and even a remote XXGalapagos? 0:38:45.000XX north of Finland. Some woman said, “You know, you’ve changed my life. You’ve taught me how to meditate.” And that’s because what I teach in person I can now deliver to the masses through digital format. And we couldn’t do that less than 10 years ago.

Stuart

Yeah. It wouldn’t work so well as like a bulk mail-out, would it?

Tom

What’s that?

Stuart

A bulk mail-out wouldn’t work quite as well.

Guy

Yeah, sending fliers out to Venezuela.

Tom

Oh, that’s right. Exactly. Yeah.

Guy

Mate, we got an Instagram question pop up and I thought, ah, this one’s a good one: What were the key lessons that you learnt, allowing you to improve your meditative experiences?

Tom

That’s a good question. Well, I’ll answer that in regards to my specific practice. And one of the things that was most relevant for my practice, which is different from a concentration meditation, but for a transcending style meditation, using a mantra, one of the most important things that I was taught that helped me refine that practice was to not hold onto the mantra as a clear, firm pronunciation, but to very effortlessly entertain it as a faint idea so that as the mind is moving toward the transcendent state, toward stillness, it’s able to surrender the attachment to the sound and let it go. So, if you hold onto that as the clear pronunciation, then the mind is attached to the repetition sound, which means the mind is moving constantly.

Guy

Could you be stressing yourself out to think that you’re getting the mantra right or wrong? The pronunciation?

Tom

Absolutely. That’s why we emphasize, and that’s why it’s important to do a course where you get guidance. I highly recommend for anyone that, this is the big challenge people have is that they’re trying to do meditation on their own. It’s probably the most important thing you can do. And yet we’re reluctant to get authorities to guide us in that space.

And it’s really important that you have someone to assist you in your meditation practice, because not only do you want to make sure that you understand the process very well, and understand why you’re gonna have certain sensations or why you’re gonna have certain experiences that might be a little bit challenging at times. But you’re talking about your unconsciousness here. And everything that you do in life is gonna flow from your consciousness.

And we go to chiropractors, we go to doctors, we go to dentists, we go to mechanics to fix our car. We see professionals in every area of life except for our mind.

Stuart

Yeah. The most important part as well.

Tom

The most important part.

Guy

Hey, Tom, yes, good point. We ask one question on the show at the end, every guest. And I can just see Stewie’s face. His brain is working overtime.

This gold. I mean, we’ll be talking about this for weeks after, Tom.
So, what’s the single best piece of advice you’ve ever been given.

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Tom

Yeah. That’s a really good question. I would have to reference a book, it was a reference from a book called Emmanuel’s Book. And I don’t know if it’s advice as opposed to an insight, but I probably take it as an insight. And that is that ultimately, beyond all the thoughts, all the seeming conditions of what I perceive myself to be, there is the subtle essence of who I am. My ultimate truth.

Is it, “I’m love?” And all I need to do is embody that. And when I’m embodying that as my ultimate truth in every moment, then that’s what we call in Sanskrit “moksha.” Freedom. That is true freedom. There is no circumstance you can’t feel liberated in when you’re just embodying the truth of who you are. And that’s love.

Guy

Fantastic answer.

Did it take you a long time to; like, if somebody had that to you when you were in your stock-trading days, bond-trading days, you know, probably wouldn’t have registered the same as to the Tom of today, right?

Tom

There’s a reason for that in that knowledge gets superseded by our experience. So, you can have a concept in your head, but if your experience isn’t aligned with that concept, then your experience will override the concept. So, if your concept is, “I’m peace and love,” but if you’re stressed to the hilt, you’ve been up all night doing cocaine and drinking bourbon, and you wake up and you say as an affirmation, “I’m peace and love,” or, “I’m the light.” Your experience will tell you a different story.

And when you’re driving to work in your BMW and there’s a traffic jam and you’re late for a boardroom meeting and a lot of things depend upon this and you’re really stressed and you’re hammering the steering wheel, cussing and cursing, listening to some, you know, hard-core metal music, it doesn’t matter what that concept is. You could have little Post It notes written all over your car on the dashboard saying, “Hey, I’m peace and love.” We need our experience to align with the concepts. And it took me a long time for my physical body to be purified of the imbalances so that I could start to feel that.

So, now my feeling is aligned with the concept.

Guy

That makes so much sense when you put it like that, Tom. It really does.

Tom

You know, I had a guy at work had heard a lot about the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. And this guy, like, he was a stress bag. A typical broker, just as I was. And he said, “I really want to read this Power of Now. It sounds really good. It’s something I think I should read.” I said, “Sure. I’ll lend it to you.” And I lent it to him. And he wasn’t a meditator, and I knew that he was gonna struggle with that book because if you don’t know how to still the mind or if the mind isn’t naturally, spontaneously living in the now, then (and the mind doesn’t really like to live in the now. It’s in the future and in the past; it’s forecasting and remembering).

And he got about a third of the way through the book and gave it back to me and he said, “You know what? I kind of get what he’s talking about, but I don’t get it.” And that’s because his experience was invalidating the content in the book. He didn’t know how to live in the now, because his mind was always in the future and the past. Without meditation, it’s almost; I’d almost say it’s a great book to read after you’ve been meditating.

Guy

Right. And be present. It’s funny you say that, because I’ve read a book, and I’ve gone, “What the hell are they on about?” And picked it up five years later and it’s a completely different book. Even though it’s the same book.

Tom

Yeah. Absolutely.

Guy

That’s awesome. Any last words, Stu?

Stuart

Well, I just need your phone number.

Tom

I’ll answer it in a second and I’m coming to see you.

Guy

Where can we get more Tom Cronin for our listeners, Tom?

Tom

The best place to probably go is to the Stillness Project. And the Stillness Project really is a movement we’ve created. Its foundation is to inspire a billion people to meditate daily. Because we see the power of meditation when we incorporate that in their lives. Everything changes. And if we get more people meditating, we’re gonna have a better planet.

So, the Stillness Project is about that. It incorporates retreats, digital programs, digital mentoring, live mentoring, live programs. They can get most of what they need to find about me at the Stillness Project.

Guy

Awesome. We’ll drop a link below anyway on our website.

Tom

It’s StillnessProject.com.

Guy

Excellent. Fantastic.

That was awesome, mate. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Tom.

Stuart

Thank you so much for your time. This stuff, I can see now, it’s critical to mind, body, spirit, holistic health and wellness. I look forward to finding out more and experiencing more. Put it that way.

Tom

Nice stuff guys, Thank you.

Guy

Thanks, Tom.

Stuart

Thank you, buddy.

Guy

Cheers, mate.

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Is Your Brand of Fish Oil Healthy?

After recently chatting to the Baker Boys (full interview below) it appears that some brands of fish oil shine over others. Learn how to put your brand to the test above in this short video clip.

Brothers Michael & Christian Baker are nutritional advisors & professional speakers. They have also collected a massive amount of experience over the years within the supplement industry. They were one of the first guys to setup a major supplement store franchise from the USA here in Australia. Strap yourself in for this one as we dig deep into the world of supplements. Join us and find out what actually goes on in one of the most confusing industries out there!


Full Interview: Insider Knowledge & Truths About the Supplement Industry

downloaditunesIn this episode we talk about:-

  • If supplements actually make you healthy
  • The biggest mistake people make when choosing supplements
  • How to know if your fish oil is any good
  • Why some supplements are simply expensive urine
  • The damaging effects of artificial sweeteners (yes they are in many so called ‘health foods’ & protein powders)
  • The best post exercise supplements to take
  • And much more…

CLICK HERE for all Episodes of 180TV

Learn about the Baker Boys HERE


Truths about supplements transcript

Guy Lawrence: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition and welcome to another episode of The Health Sessions. Today you’re in for a treat as we dig deep into the truths, or what we feel to be the truths, about the supplement world.
Our special guests today are the Baker Boy Brothers, Michael and Christian Baker. These guys were the first franchisees in Australia of probably one of the largest companies in the world, supplement companies, and they’ve been in the industry a long time. They certainly know their stuff.
They’re in the firing line, if you like, of the end consumer, and, you know, they’ve seen a lot of things. Well, as you can imagine, we had so many burning questions, from supplements to “Do we need them?” to the quality and grade of them, you know, “How effective are they? What ones should we be looking for? What ingredients are in them? Is there anything we should be concerned about?” And what to check when looking for them in general, you know?
There are so many gems of information in here. It’s not funny. I certainly learned a lot from this episode, and I’m sure you will, too. So sit back and enjoy it. You’re in for a treat.

Also, if you are listening to this through iTunes, we’d really appreciate the review. That just helps our rankings and helps us get the word out there as we spread the good message about food and health and what we believe. So, yeah, enjoy!
Guy Lawrence: So, hey, this Guy Lawrence, and I am joined today, as always, with Mr. Stuart Cooke. Hey, Stu.
Stuart Cooke: Hello!
Guy Lawrence: And our special guests today are the Baker Boy Brothers, Michael and Christian Baker. Welcome, lads!
Christian Baker: Thanks for having us.
Guy Lawrence: So, we are on all four corners of Australia: Coogee, Maroubra, Bondi Junction, and Newcastle.
Michael Baker: Yes, nice.
Stuart Cooke: Excellent.
Guy Lawrence: First of all, I wanted to just say, you know, you guys are at the firing line, if you like, of the end consumer in retail and working in the supplement industry a long time. It’s going to be fantastic to get your insights on that today. We’re excited to have you.
Michael Baker: We’re glad to be sharing.
Guy Lawrence: We’ll start with you, Mick. Tell us how long have you been in the industry and how’d it all begin for you lads?
Michael Baker: Sure, well, being the older brother it is appropriate, I guess, that I start. I’m probably about six to eight inches shorter than Christian, but it’s okay. I usually get, when people come into the store, and we’re side-by-side, they usually call Christian the older guy and then I’m his younger brother, but it’s not the case.
I’m the one with the beard here.
Yeah, basically, as far as my memory can go back, I used to come home from school, from high school, year 11 and 12, and see Christian on the lounge playing video games. I was like, “Christian, I just come from the gym. I feel amazing. I’m starting to get muscles and, you know, I really enjoy this. You’ve got to get off your lazy bum and come join me one time.”
And, being the stubborn young brother he is, he would always pretend like he wasn’t even listening, just totally ignored me. And I think after about two years or so of drilling him with this, “You’ve got to get to the gym. You’ve got to get to the gym,” he finally, one day, just joined at the gym and literally went, I think, every single day for a whole year straight. He became obsessed with it.
And that’s pretty much what got us into health and fitness. We then went and did our personal training qualification and dabbled into, you know, nutrition a little bit, but we didn’t really know that much, and then, to the point where we are now, which is being in the industry, the supplement industry, heavily for five years.
It’s been some interesting insights and learnings.
Stuart Cooke: Fantastic.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, I can imagine. Did you have any, you know, you’ve been doing it a while now. Obviously, we know you guys well and know the industry pretty well. Did you have any preconceived ideas before starting? Christian?
Christian Baker: Yeah, obviously, being more of a gym background than a nutrition background, at least in the beginning, I didn’t really know what to expect from the supplement side of things other than what I’d seen in magazines, and I had all these ideas of supplements being magic and all this good stuff, so, yeah, I think going into the industry, in terms of the nutritional supplement side, I had really high expectations and a lot of them weren’t met.
I realized certain corners were being cut, certain claims that were being made, a lot of things, yeah, weren’t quite what they seemed.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, I know. It’s intriguing, because, obviously, I started out as a fitness trainer ten years ago and, from the outside looking in, is a very different perceived…perception to when you start getting amongst it.
Stuart Cooke: Yeah, it’s certainly a big world out there. Say someone ate a balanced diet, okay, so a reasonably healthy, balanced diet. Would they get much benefit from taking supplements?
Michael Baker: I think, absolutely. I guess most people’s idea of a balanced diet, even a healthy person could be shopping at Woolworths or Coles, you know, big name grocery stores, and if you’re buying, whether it be chicken, steak, fish, usually it’s always grain-fed or, you know, soy-fed, or just corn-fed, again, something terrible, which show up inside the animal. They’re also going to pump it with hormones. You guys know this already. It’s shocking what they actually feed the produce.
And then the vegetable side of things, I mean, it’s one thing to eat vegetables, but if they’re not organic, you’re not really going to get much from them, so I think supplements can really fit in well. A probiotic can really come in handy, especially to anyone on hormones. It can help put the good bacteria back into your gut just so you can actually digest these proteins and foods properly.
Stuart Cooke: It’s a good point. I mean, we also say we are what we eat, but we are kind of what our animals eat, as well, and all of that is completely unknown to us.
Christian Baker: If they’re feeding our animals junk food, so, you know, these leftover grains instead of the fresh produce that they’re designed to eat, then what are we eating? We’re eating junk chicken and junk beef.
But, hey, if someone came to me and they had a diet that was spot-on with huge amounts of green veggies, colored veggies, nuts, fruits, grass-fed meats, and all that stuff, in most cases they wouldn’t really need much else, but you find me a person who does that in all of Australia and then you’re not going to find many.
I think everyone can do with a top up of a few extra things on top of what they eat.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, but, you know, from what I’ve seen, and I’m sure you’d be able to highlight this more, there are a lot of people out there that think, you know, no regard indiscriminate to what they eat, if they take a vitamin pill every day or supplement, say, then they’ve given themselves insurance.
Christian Baker: Yeah, exactly. A lot of people like to use it as an excuse to eat crap, because they are using the vitamins for damage control. Which, you could use that strategy if it’s a holiday or something like that, but as a daily strategy, you just can’t, you know, you can’t do that.
And you’ve got to think about that, as well. How many new micronutrients and, on a deeper level, phytonutrients, they’re the tiniest little things, are becoming revealed over these last few years? If you say, “Cool. I’m taking a vitamin instead of eating a bunch of veggies and then we find out there’s something in veggies that we haven’t been putting in the vitamins, then you haven’t been getting that either. So you really don’t know what you’re not getting if you’re not having enough veggies and fruits in real food.
Michael Baker: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, good point.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, from your experience with people walking into the stores every day, you must have seen, like thousands of thousands of thousands of people now. What do you think is the biggest mistake people make when choosing supplements if they, you know, are not under any guidance?
Michael Baker: Personally, I think, and Christian would probably agree, it’s like most things in life, people want things fast. They want fast results and when you say fast, people want to lose weight fast, and it’s…it’s just…we want to pull our hair out sometimes. They come in drinking a juice from a well-known juice company, full of sugar, and we look in their shopping trolley, maybe they’ve got some chips and some white bread in there, and they’re like, “Hey, do you have a fat-burner? I’ve got a wedding coming up in two weeks. What’s the best thing you can get for me?” And, like, they need to lose weight really fast.
We feel like honestly saying to them, but you can’t really say it like this, “Look, you’ve been putting crap in your body for ten years, and you’ve got ten years of damage, and now you want to heal it, you know, fix it within two weeks. It just doesn’t work like that.”
Most people want short-term results. They’re not willing to actually make the proper changes that may happen a lot slower, but they’re going to live a lot longer and benefit from it.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Right. Marketing play, I mean, you know obviously we all work in the industry, marketing plays a lot in that, as well, I think.
Stuart Cooke: Absolutely. well, every supplement claims to be the best out there, and if I went into a store, I could find, you know, a whole range of supplements that do exactly the same thing, but do they vary in grade or quality, or even effectiveness?
Christian Baker: Oh, god, so much. Australia’s got really good laws for protecting consumers when it comes to making sure that we’re having, you know, decent ingredients, safe ingredients.
Stuart Cooke: Yeah.
Christian Baker: But what we don’t regulate, and what I think we really should, is the grade and the quality of ingredients. So, for example, if you get something like zinc, lots of people taking it, there’s about ten, twenty, or thirty forms of zinc. You can take what’s called a zinc chelate or you can take what’s called a zinc gluconate, they’re two different things both providing you with zinc at the end of the day.
Your body can absorb one of them almost entirely, which is the gluconate, but the other one your body can barely absorb at all, and that’s unfortunately more commonly used, because it’s cheaper. If you check the same man taking, you know, a zinc supplement every night, he thinks he’s taking the same amount, but he’s not actually keeping the same amount. His body can’t absorb it.
So, that’s a big concern with where we’re heading in terms of quality of supplements. They’re becoming more varieties out there, but we just don’t have the facts for the quality.
Stuart Cooke: Would it be safe to say that the more I pay the better quality of product I would be getting?
Christian Baker: In most cases, yeah, but…
Guy Lawrence: Not all?
Michael Baker: Depending on the brands. I mean, just, back on that in terms of quality, there’s a lot of products that they’ll have all these claims and everything and then you check the label and there’s what’s called proprietary blend on the back, and it’s so commonly used in the supplement industry, and it’s mainly used in the U.S. where you’ll have this product that’s perfectly branded, has some amazing claims, contains some awesome ingredients, right? XXdistortedXX [0:11:33] The actual doses of the good ingredients versus the lesser ingredients…you have no idea.
Yeah, people are just so used to seeing it, they don’t even question it. Why? Because, it’s like, “We will give you five good ingredients with 20 terrible ingredients, such as high fructose corn syrup.”
Stuart Cooke: Yeah, right.
Guy Lawrence: What about fish oil? Because fish oil, you know, you see in absolutely every single chemist, stacked mountains of it, you know? What are your thoughts on the grading of fish oil?
Christian Baker: Well, fish oil, for starters, is one of my favorite things. I think it’s somewhat of a controversial topic. Everyone’s got their opinion, but I think, if people are taking fish oil…but, yeah, not all fish oil is created equal. Some people take the extra step of processing it an extra step to keep its freshness. Other people just do the minimum required by the government and that does have an impact.
And even when you open the container and smell it, you can tell. A friend of mine, actually, what she does every time she buys a batch of fish oil is pricks one of the capsules with a pin and, if it’s good quality, it’ll smell a bit fishy. No worries.
But, if it’s bad quality, it’ll smell rancid, and it’ll smell terrible, and you should throw the whole container out, and, unfortunately, most…I’ll save you buying fish oil from a supermarket. You should reconsider that. It’s better to go to a health food store or somewhere that is specializing in fish oil rather than just storing a generic brand on the shelf.
Stuart Cooke: That’s awesome take. You do realize that everybody now is going to be rushing to the kitchen and pricking their little tablets of fish oil. Me included.
Christian Baker: Please do it over the sink and get ready to wash your hands, because…XXdistortedXX [0:13:20]
Michael Baker: It stinks.
Stuart Cooke: That’s good to know. Thank you.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah. That’s excellent. If there’s one thing that I’ll spend money on, it’s fish oil. I’ll never, personally, buy from, straight from the shelves like that.
Michael Baker: Which one do you take, Guy?
Guy Lawrence: Hmm?
Michael Baker: Which one do you take? I remember you saying a really high quality one you’re taking once.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, I buy, actually, Metagenics fish oil.
Michael Baker: Yeah.
Christian Baker: Good brand.
Guy Lawrence: Moving forward, what’s the biggest misconception then? Like, claims that won’t die, you know, people must be coming in with a perceived idea.
Michael Baker: Really? That’s so tough. I mean, we could talk about carbohydrates. We could talk about getting big quick. I mean, there’s so…
Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Big quick’s a good one. I had to deal with that all the time as a personal trainer.
Michael Baker: Yeah.
Christian Baker: You guys would get that all the time with your product.
Stuart Cooke: Yes.
Christian Baker: I think, yeah, there’s so many misconceptions and also things that won’t die, like, such as, don’t take vitamins because it’s expensive year-round, or vitamins don’t work, blah, blah, blah, blah, but the one that’s the most relevant at the moment, just because the fastest growing market of people purchasing protein is not body-builders and fitness freaks, it’s typically normal people who just want to be a little bit healthier and maybe want to lose a little bit of weight and are starting to realize that protein powder is just food. It’s just like chicken or beef. It’s nothing magical, but when they tell their friend to get it, or their friend’s friend or whatever, straight away if they’re a woman or even, a lot of time, with guys, they’ll go, “Oh, my god, I don’t want to take protein, because I’ll get too big.”
I’m like, “Well, I tried to get big for a long time.” So, you know…XXdistortedXX [0:15:08]
Michael Baker: When was the last time you ate chicken? You’re not huge.
Christian Baker: Yeah, exactly. So, like, protein, you don’t see when you go to the supermarket and go to buy a chicken breast, there’s not some big muscley dude on the front, even though chicken breast is the most commonly eaten food by bodybuilders. It’s just protein, and protein powder’s the same.
And I think, over time, it’ll probably get better, but, we got to clear the misconception that protein is for making you huge. Protein is just protein.
Stuart Cooke: Got it.
Michael Baker: You’ve got to get your calories from proteins, carbs, or fat, so, if you want to eat carbs all day and eat plenty of processed carbs and sugars like most people do, you’re going to get fat. You want to eat protein, you’re actually going to probably lose weight, but to try to explain this to the average consumer sometimes takes a good half-an-hour just to do it.
Stuart Cooke: Yeah, it’s, I don’t think it’s, it’s certainly not an easy topic to broach, especially when you’re in your shop.
Michael Baker: People have feelings, too, you don’t want break that. If for the last 20 years their great-grandmother taught them to do this, and they’ve got all these ways of eating and living and now, you know, you break their heart. You tell them they can’t have fruit for, you know, fruit for dessert with yogurt before bed, you know, you want to have a lean protein shake instead, they’re like, “What do you mean? Fruit’s good for you. Low calories.”
Stuart Cooke: That’s right, yeah. Nature’s dessert. That’s what we like to call fruit. You mentioned sugars, as well, Mick. Now that brings me on to artificial sweeteners.
Michael Baker: Yeah.
Stuart Cooke: These are to, you know, the general public could be seen as a very good thing, because they reduce the amount of sugar in there which is a great thing, too. You know, are they a good thing, or are they a cause for concern?
Michael Baker: Both Christian and I, fortunately and unfortunately, have asthma, and I mean we’re, I’m 30 now, and I’ve still got asthma. It just hasn’t gone away, but I know, I basically know how to control it. So, for me, it’s mainly environmental and what I’m putting in my body, and you know, from dust and some pet hair, but mainly from putting bad foods in my body.
Like, if I have, right now, if I had a diet Coke and then, maybe, even a protein shake with artificial sweeteners, I wouldn’t be able to breathe. I literally wouldn’t be able take part in this podcast, because my lungs lock up and it’s game over for me.
Like, for many years when Christian and I first went into the industry, we’re like so keen to try everything, so we’re pre-workouts, during workouts, post-workout, bedtime, and like a million different shakes, and we’re taking all the top brand names, but yet, we used to finished a workout, we’d have massive anxiety and we’re like, “Oh my god, why can’t we breathe right now?”
Like, we’re really struggling with our breath, and it was funny enough because of the shakes we were taking. They’re fluff, you know, something called Ace-K, sucralose, sometimes aspartame, all of these hidden nasties that reduce the calories but just really don’t do good to you.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, because, from my understanding, there are still a lot of companies suing them, I mean…
Christian Baker: They’re pathetic.
Michael Baker: A majority.
Christian Baker: Sweeteners, god, they’re such a controversial thing. I think, especially going back to what I said before about the growing market with people trying to be a little bit healthier. You know, a lot of people don’t realize that health and fitness are, in fact, two very different things. You know, you get them both right they’ll complement each other, but if you’re only pursuing one and you’re forgetting about the other, you know, you can get off-track.
Case in point, most people start going to the gym, might even take a protein supplement. They might start eating more chicken and stuff like that, but they won’t back themselves up with extra veggies. They won’t take a greens powder with vitamins in it to offset the protein they’re having, and they wonder why they get sick.
Or maybe they’ll look good, but then their skin won’t look so good, or they’ll have bad breath and all these other things, and they have no idea, because there are so many artificial things, you know, getting put into food and supplements, to reduce calories and to make you in better shape, but not with your health in mind.
One thing I wanted to say about sweeteners is from a vanity point of view, which is probably the best way to get it across to most people, is if you look up any study they’ve done with mainstream sweeteners, especially aspartame sweetener e951 that’s used in diet Coke and diet soft drinks and all those things, in nearly every single study, unanimous across the board, people who drink diet soft drinks eat more calories with their next meal, and usually eat more calories across the board through the whole day.
And it’s like the diet soft drink paradox, because your brain is hardwired to get excited and expect some calories when you give it something sweet. It’s a survival mechanism. And, if you’re having these sweet things, these artificial sweeteners, your brains like, “Okay, cool. Where’s the calories at?” And then it’s waiting, waiting…
“Still no calories? Something’s wrong. We need more calories.” And it keeps telling you to get hungrier and get hungrier until you satisfy that craving, but it’s just all messed up. You can’t trick your brain, and artificial sweeteners, they just mess with the way we work, and there’s so many other bad side effects we could talk about, but that’s one of my main concerns.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, and interestingly enough, as well, if somebody is actually having a diet Coke I wonder how conscious they are about their actual, you know, the foods they’re putting in their body, and then the calories that they’re eating more of later are going to be, actually, probably of poor quality, I’d imagine.
Christian Baker: Yeah. Absolutely right.
Guy Lawrence: Escalating the problem. I mean, that’s why 180 started, you know, because, you know, working as a trainer, especially with the people with chronic disease, we couldn’t find a protein supplement without these sort of things in it.
Michael Baker: That’s why we love your protein, because it’s, you take it, you feel awesome after it. Like, you feel like you’ve just had all the nutrients you need. You can go for a run straight after it, whereas the other stuff we used to take, we’d have to like lie down and do deep breaths, like, recover.
Guy Lawrence: And that’s not healthy. I’m just touching on what Christian said, you know, like even from my experience you see a lot of people focusing on their physical appearance and fitness and can look great, but I’d question how healthy they actually really are underneath all that.
Michael Baker: Yeah, Christian and I went to a bodybuilding, a really big bodybuilding event. Last year’s Arnold Classic over in the U.S.
Guy Lawrence: Oh, yeah, that’s right, yeah.
Michael Baker: Yeah, and it was a really great experience, but we could not believe how unhealthy the people were there. Like, it’s meant to be the health and nutrition…
Christian Baker: Industry…
Michael Baker: …industry, but there were people that were in their early 30s, women, that were losing hair, because of who-knows-what they’re putting in their body. You know, just, acne, redness under the eyes, pimples on the back of their delts and their triceps and it was just, stretch marks, yeah, it’s because they were loading up only supplements and then probably some other stuff in the backroom that you don’t know about. They’re not actually eating food. They’re not eating any real food.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, wow. While we’re on the topic of supplements, what are your personal staples? You know, your nutritional supplement routines that you do?
Michael Baker: Christian, you go first. He used to take four to five times as many supplements as me.


Christian Baker: Yeah, how much time do we have?
Guy Lawrence: Cause I know, obviously, quite a few people that work in the industry, and generally the people that work around supplements take more.
Stuart Cooke: That’s right. We can always offer your list, as well, Christian, as a PDF download, if it’s too lengthy.
Christian Baker: Yeah, if it’s a small enough file for download. I used to take a lot of things, and I still like to introduce different things at certain times. I’m very much a human guinea pig, but at the moment I’ve cut myself right down to what I think are, you know, the essentials in terms of my lifestyle, so I take a greens formula, so like powdered vegetables with superfoods antioxidants, all those things, wheat grass, barley grass. I do eat a lot of green veggies and a lot of colored veggies, but I take as well just as backup because I do a lot of exercise.
A multivitamin, as well, even though I’m taking already greens, I will take the vitamin as well. I take fish oil, of course, to help with my joints, but also it does help with skin and also help with fat loss, as well. Protein, but only natural protein, I don’t take any sweeteners, so I take 180. I also take two other different ones, as well, which are natural.
I’ll take branch chain amino acids, which are really good for training and recovery and increasing your strength, but also minimizing any kind of muscle loss, if you’re dieting down, which, at the moment, I’m losing weight, so they’re good, but I do them unflavored which tastes terrible, but, also, because I’m avoiding sweeteners, and that’s the gist of it, but then I add other things for small periods of time.
Like, at the moment, I’m taking zinc, just for a good six weeks or so because we are going into winter, and it does help me with the…
Michael Baker: He just got a girlfriend, as well. He wants to increase his testosterone.
Christian Baker: Yeah, zinc does help with testosterone. In a few days, when you take zinc, so, if you’re a guy, definitely take a zinc.
Guy Lawrence: That is a good tip. What about you, Mick?
Michael Baker: I’m pretty similar to Christian. I do all my daily supplement regime is first thing in the morning it’s the greens powder, then usually about an hour to an hour-and-a-half, I usually go for a big hour walk in the morning. I have a nice shot of double espresso, which is not a supplement, but it’s caffeine in its purest form, and, yeah, with my two main meals I have a multivitamin.
At the moment, I’m taking a bit of olive leaf. It’s olive leaf extract for immune system, because I work quite a bit and I just can’t really afford to get rundown. Training-wise, pretraining I take an unflavored XX?XX [0:25:17] . I take arginine, which is,hands down, the worst tasting supplement on the planet.
Christian Baker: It’s fantastic.
Michael Baker: For pumps and vascularity, but it’s, it tastes like chlorinated pool water with tuna mixed into it.
Stuart Cooke: Nice.
Christian Baker: With a seaweed aftertaste.
Michael Baker: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, so I take XX?XX [0:25:39] and arginine before training. After training, I’ll have coconut water with either 180 or just an unflavored protein that I have, and I’ve got a massive sweet tooth, so I usually have one to two XX?XX [0:25:52] bars a day. Even though, it’s my justification, like, the nice little hit of cacao and all that stuff makes it, makes me feel like I don’t want to go for chocolate bars, so it does the job.
Stuart Cooke: Fantastic. And you guys essentially follow quite a clean diet, as well, don’t you? Devoid of most processed foods?
Christian Baker: Yeah, I think, I don’t get too caught up in exact protocols, like I’ve tried many diets to the letter for a time, just so I can experience it and just kind of take what I want and get rid of what I don’t want.
But, if you had to sum up my diet, it’s pretty much just eating real food, like most of it is real food, real veggies, real fruits, lots of nuts, lots of lean meat. Plenty of fat, too, from good sources, like grass-fed meats, nuts, avocadoes, fish, eggs.
Michael Baker: Are you eating bread these days?
Christian Baker: On the weekend, I’ll have bread, and if I am going to have bread, I’ll have sourdough, because it digests a lot better. Maybe one day a week I’ll have some bread with breakfast or lunch or something like that, because I do like bread, I just don’t want to eat it.
Guy Lawrence: I don’t think I’ve met a person that doesn’t like bread.
Christian Baker: Whoever made bread is a smart man and awesome. Yeah, if you had to match my diet up to an actual diet, I think the closest diet that I eat to would be the Wahls Protocol. Remember Dr. Terry Wahls who you guys interviewed? I’m a massive fan of her, and because her diet works from a fitness point of view as in it helps me train, but it’s centered around health.
Her diet is all about cellular health and giving the body what it needs to regenerate, and I’m a massive fan of that. Even though it takes a lot of effort and a lot of plates of red cabbage…
Christian Baker: The first day that we saw Christian do that, oh, my god, myself and our friend Jeremy was sitting there, all having a steak together, and but Christian had this massive salad bowl full of red cabbage and all this colorful stuff, and we’d finished our steak. We’re pretty much about to just clean and start doing the washing up. Christian hadn’t even started the steak. He’s still eating cabbage.
Christian Baker: I was committed.
Stuart Cooke: Color. Yeah, that’s it. Get some color on your plate. That’s an awesome tip.
Guy Lawrence: What supplements would you recommend, guys, for those that exercise regular? Because I know there have been quite a few, you know…
Stuart Cooke: Yeah, we’re talking, you know, male, female, Joe Public.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah, because we get a lot of Cross Fitters, as well, obviously.
Michael Baker: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, your protein just flies out the door, especially Cross Fitters. They are just obsessed with it. I guess it gives them the perfect blend of healthy fats, some nice quality carbohydrates, really good quality protein, no sweeteners, no fillers or anything. So, I mean, that’s, yeah, your 180 protein is like the perfect protein.
Even for women that come in for weight loss. I still recommend it to them, because I’m like, “Look, you’re not going to have cravings. You’re going to get some healthy fats. Yes, fats are good for you. Slow release carbs. A good quality protein. Instead of having your…”
You know, actually, I won’t say the full title, it’s called Celebrity something, I mean, you get it from my words, and I was, I just said, “Okay, do you actually understand what’s in there? You’ve got vegetable oil. You’ve got soy protein, and you’ve got first ingredient skim milk powder, and you, just so many terrible ingredients, and it’s 100 percent sugar, as well.
So then I, you know, switched her over to the 180. Showed her that it’s actually whole foods and not fillers, and, yeah, so, she’s going to be loving it.
Stuart Cooke: Will you recommend like a general multivitamin, as well, to accompany, you know, to accompany their daily lives, as well?
Christian Baker: Yeah, I think, for Joe Public, the average person who wants to be a little bit healthier and who is eating a reasonably good diet, if you follow good diet protocols from Australia which involves a lot of grains, then I would recommend you choose at least either a greens powder, so powder with fruits and veggies and wheat grass, or a strong multivitamin, or you could do both, which is even better, but at least if you start with one of them that’s a good start.
However, unfortunately, with vitamins there’s a huge variance, so please don’t buy any of the ones you see on TV. They seem to put more money into their marketing than they do their research and development. And, if you’re using cheap forms of vitamins like that, you can take the tablets, but your body won’t absorb much of it at all…
[talking over each other]
Christian Baker: Sorry?
Michael Baker: That’s expensive urine right there.
Christian Baker: That’s where the saying comes from. And then, so, yeah, greens or a multivitamin and fish oil, I think that’s a good start for anyone, and if they do that, given that they drink enough water, as well, at least two or three liters a day, like, really, most people don’t do that, that alone is enough to make most people feel significantly healthier.
And most people just don’t buy into that, but literally a few days of doing that consistently, you feel dramatically different, if you haven’t taken those things for a while.
Michael Baker: Getting protein first thing in the morning, if you can do it within a half-hour of waking up, protein as your first meal instead of sugary cereal with some milk, it’s going to help with the blood sugar, their energy, their body fat, metabolism, everything. So, it’s 180 protein first thing in the morning, don’t need to add anything to it. There’s nothing. It’s got everything you need, pretty much for everyone.
Stuart Cooke: Breakfast like a king, I think. That’s the term, isn’t it?
Michael Baker: That’s it.
Stuart Cooke: Mick, you touched on weight-loss shakes, as well. This is a huge can of worms in itself, but what are your thoughts on weight loss shakes, you know, and he marketing that they use out in the High Street?
Michael Baker: Yeah, it’s, first of all, the marketing works, and that’s scary. It does work. Like people like to see labels that say, “Lose weight fast,” or something with “slim” or something…
Christian Baker: If the word toned is on it, women are for it.
Michael Baker: I know. There’s no real definition to “toned.” You can’t go to the gym and get toned. Yeah, it’s, I mean, everyone’s own personal perception, but, yeah, I mean, weight loss shakes, what I would tell to everyone is do your own research to how you can lose weight and then find your own ingredients to make a perfect shake, or go for a 180 shake or something that has got proper whole foods in it.
Like, a typical weight loss shake is not going to make you lose weight. Maybe, you know, for two weeks you might lose weight, because you’re not having calories from other food, but long term, as Christian said before, a lot of them have got the sweeteners in there, so therefore, you’re tricking yourself into not eating other foods and then you’re going to actually going to eat more in the long run.
And then you’re going to put on weight. You’re body’s bacteria, like good bacteria, is not going to be happening. Your gut health is not good. Your liver’s not going to be good. Everything’s going to slowly deteriorate, but the problem is short-term they usually do work, and that’s why people do want them for the quick fix, but it’s just slowly screwing your insides.
Stuart Cooke: Yeah, it never fails to amaze me the amount of artificial sweeteners in weight loss products that will have a direct link to your gut health or deterioration of gut bacteria, which is the one thing that you really need to regulate your hormones and weight control, as well, so it’s just a…
Christian Baker: Absolutely.
Stuart Cooke: It’s just, it’s crazy, isn’t it? It’s a vicious cycle.
Christian Baker: And, actually, on that point sweetener 950, sorry, sweetener 955, sucralose, was invented by accident when they were all trying to make a pesticide. So, it was originally designed to kill bacteria in microorganisms, so when you take it into your own gut it starts killing the microorganisms, the bacteria, whether they’re good or bad. It doesn’t discriminate.
So, a lot of people experience bloating, poor digestion, and things like that when they’re taking a lot of sweeteners, and that’s often why, because they’re destroying the environment down there.


Guy Lawrence: The reality is of that, as well, if you have been down that path for years and then one day go, “Oh my god, I’ve been doing this to me,” some things you just can’t fix overnight.
Michael Baker: That’s it. Unfortunately not. Yeah, I mean, back on the weight loss shakes sort of things, the best thing you can do, I guess, is grab the product, turn it around, look at the label, try to see that there are no numbers. If you don’t know what the number is, look up the number, and if you don’t understand the ingredients, run, like, do not, do not go for it.
Another ingredient that’s a killer, which is not really related to sports supplements but it’s called MSG, monosodium glutamate, and that, for me, it’s my kryptonite. It just destroys me, because I’ve got and MSG allergy, which is in all Asian food, flavored chips, but it’s in so many different things, and now they hide it under yeast extract, as well.
Guy Lawrence: Is that right?
Michael Baker: Yeah, it’s another hidden thing that’s in so many different ingredients in the supermarket, gravies and soups and…
Stuart Cooke: Flavor enhancer is another generic term for MSG. It really is funny, but I think the great thing about the society that we live in today is that we do have, or most of us have, smartphones, and most of us have access to, you know, so much information, so when we’re out and about we can make these checks instantly.
Michael Baker: Yeah, totally.
Christian Baker: Yeah, and if you Google a lot of ingredients that you don’t understand, it just comes up, and it gives you two or three different alternate names for them and often times, like Mick said with the whole yeast extract thing, it’s, yeah, it’s something that’s a common irritant or problem for a lot of people but it’s disguised under different names.
Like, a lot of people are terrified of trans fat and for good reason, because there’s no justifiable reason to ever eat it, except that it makes the texture of food really good, but that can be called vegetable shortening, so it’s got the word vegetable in it, so you’re like, “Vegetable. Cool.” But shortening is just another long word for fat, and vegetable fat, you know, if you look at, say, olive oil or vegetable oil, it’s always runny and it’s always a liquid, because it’s an unsaturated fat.
If it’s solid, and it’s not a saturated fat, because they’re solid at room temperature, like butter and stuff, but somehow it’s solid, you know it’s been modified, which is what trans fat is. It’s been messed up and hydrogenated.
Guy Lawrence: Hydrogenated, yeah.
Stuart Cooke: I avoid it.
Guy Lawrence: If, for people listening to this, if you were to say what would just like a really simple breakdown, what would you list to say, “Look, just check these in the ingredients. You need to avoid these.” Vegetable oil would definitely be on there for me.
Christian Baker: Yeah, do you mean when looking for supplements or just in food in general?
Guy Lawrence: Probably both. Let’s do supplements first.
Christian Baker: Okay. Well, yeah, I would say, if you can, avoid, well, we’ll go back to Mick’s point with the whole celebrity kind of shakes and weight loss shakes and those things, the ones that are in supermarkets and on TV.
I think, before you even look at those, you should, kind of, make some rules for yourself, which is what we’re going onto now, you know, what to avoid. You should look for certain things that you want and, also, look for things to avoid, and I think the number one things to avoid would be vegetable oil, because there are so many better ways to get healthier fats. Vegetable oil is notorious for inflammation and causing problems.
I would also avoid skim milk powder, because then you know straight away that the brand is using cheap ingredients. You want a protein powder; you don’t want a milk powder. You can milk powder from anywhere and it’s cheap.
Avoid soy protein, because a lot of people can get away with a small amount of soy in their diet, but in its concentrated form soy protein can wreak havoc on both the male and female bodies. It’ll throw estrogen levels really high, cause you to gain fat instead of lose it, and it can, also, cause other hormonal craziness problems, too.
So, yeah, they’re my top three, and then I would say, also, trans fat, of course, which is less common to find in these shakes, but definitely avoid trans fat, which is written either as hydrogenated something, could be palm oil, any kind of oil, or vegetable shortening.
Guy Lawrence: Like the low fat margarine that you see in so many people’s fridge.
Christian Baker: Yeah, if you’re doing margarine, throw that stuff in the bin, please, like seriously.
Michael Baker: Eat butter.
Guy Lawrence: Cholesterol lowered margarine, too. That’s what on the label.
Christian Baker: Margarine is like spreadable plastic. It’s one molecule away from being actual plastic. It’s crazy. It was only invented because there was short supply of butter during the war or something like that, so I don’t know how it even survived after that, but…
Michael Baker: Anything that says fat free or reduced fat is always a worry, because XXtraffic noise drowned his wordsXX [0:39:40] to be safe, but the majority of the time it’s just a no go, because the only way to reduce the fat or to avoid the fat is to put in sugar or sweeteners or something to replace it. So, it’s just, stay clear form that. Full fat is good.
Stuart Cooke: That’s good advice.
Guy Lawrence: Cool. I was just, sorry, I thought he was going to just throw in some in there, Stu. Alright, guys, look, moving on. We kind of covered your diet. Do you have cheat meals, by the way?
Christian Baker: Absolutely.
Michael Baker: You’re kidding. Cheat meals? You’re talking to Christian. Could I please tell them about one of your cheat meals?
Christian Baker: Please do.
Michael Baker: And it may be a few details off.
Christian Baker: Yeah.
Michael Baker: I remember there was a day, not too long ago, Christian had some, I think he made French toast out of croissants…
Christian Baker: Yep.
Michael Baker: As if croissants don’t have enough butter and goodness already. French toast croissants. after he demolished them, probably covered in Nutella and maybe jam and peanut butter, he then proceeded to buy, I think it was the 24-pack of chocolate chip cookies, and a full liter of, it might have been, full cream milk or Cleopatra milk. He poured the milk into a big mixing bowl, poured the 24 cookies into the bowl, crushed them up, and sat there eating them.
Christian Baker: Yeah.
Guy Lawrence: How did you feel after that?
Michael Baker: It was like punishment.
Christian Baker: I felt high, like I felt euphoric.
Michael Baker: Were you watching Cross Fit videos while you were doing this?
Christian Baker: Yeah, I was like, “I need the calories.” But, no, it’s, I think cheat meals are very beneficial if you’re doing them right. Like, if you are on a, especially if you’re on a weight loss diet, you’re most likely, if it’s working, then it means you’re eating the kind of calories where your body is losing weight from week to week, and because your body is smart and it doesn’t want to starve to death, it’s eventually going to catch on to the idea that you’re trying to lose weight, and it’s going to try to stop you losing weight, because it doesn’t want to lose weight, because that’s not a good thing from a survival point of view.
So it’s starts to rev your metabolism down, down, down until even the same low-calorie diet won’t burn any more calories, but if you spike your metabolism again, and you give it a whole bunch of food, you go, “Hey, guess what? We’re not starving. There’s lots of food around. You can burn more energy again.” Your metabolism goes up and you’ll burn more fat the next week.
Also, I think it’s a good psychological release, if you feel like, “Oh my god, I can never eat a cookie again, or I can never eat Nutella again,” which Nutella, by the way, is like my favorite thing in the world, if you haven’t noticed. So then it’s a psychological benefit, too, but absolutely it can be abused.
Like, if I did the kind of meal that Mick described, if I did that that every Saturday when I do my cheat meal, I’d probably be really fat. That was, you know, sometimes they’re big like that, sometimes they’re smaller. I’ll go eat, like, smaller for me, so I’ll eat, like, a pizza, and then a Max Brenner dessert, which, for me, that’s a lot for most people, but I can easily do that, like, no worries.
Guy Lawrence: Give it ten years, mate. You’ll a…
Christian Baker: I’m the youngest in this group. I know. But then the next day I’ll be fasting half the day and then I’ll be doing a heavy workout like squats or something, so I burn it off.
Michael Baker: A lot of the time when we do a cheat meal we’ll do it post-workout, so you know we’ve opened up our glycogen, like our muscle receptors are going to put all our glycogen into our muscle. Glycogen being sugar, and other crap, into our muscles, so off putting a lot of the damage.
Guy Lawrence: That’s a really important point, isn’t it?
Christian Baker: Timing is super important. Timing is extremely important.
Michael Baker: Sometimes we’ll take some alpha lipoic acid, as well, to help balance the blood sugar, and we might even have a shot of espresso after to help with gastric empty, to, you know, get all Tim Ferriss style to, you know, make sure you don’t absorb all that food.
Christian Baker: If anyone wants, like, the ultimate way to do cheat meals and minimize the damage and not get as, you know, try not to store much fat from it, or any, check out The 4-hour Body by Tim Ferriss. It’s one of the greatest books ever written on health and fitness, and it’s also hilarious and really fun to read.
Guy Lawrence: Awesome read. Yeah.
Christian Baker: But just one final note on cheat meals, I think it’s not for everyone, like, if from a psychological point of view, I really like doing things in extremes, so I’d rather be super strict and then super crazy, but I’ve got friends who just aren’t into that. They like to, they’re the kind of people who can go to the gym, come home, eat a few cookies with their protein shake, and they use those cookies for good calories, like it goes to their muscles, and then straight away get back on the bandwagon, eat a salad for dinner with chicken. I won’t do that.
If I start with one cookie, it’s going to result in 24 cookies. So I’ll do none, and I’ll do them all on Saturday.
Stuart Cooke: …and then all.
Christian Baker: But, yes, think about your personality and then that’ll kind of help tell you if you are…
Guy Lawrence: Absolutely, and I think body type has a lot to do with it, as well, because I know Stu could have a cheat meal every single meal and not gain an ounce of body fat.
Stuart Cooke: Come on. We put that to the test in Fiji, didn’t we, and it didn’t, and it absolutely worked to treat. I ate 6,000 calories a day for two weeks and lost a kilo-and-a-half.
Michael Baker: What?
Christian Baker: Oh my god. What? You were doing, you were doing, what’s that guy? That awesome guy who’s friends with…
Stuart Cooke: Yeah. Nate Green.
Christian Baker: Nate Green. You were doing his kind of stuff. He’s super ripped.
Michael Baker: That is insane.
Christian Baker: The calories he eats on some of his programs are amazing, and he’s still super lean, so, yeah. Stu is the Aussie Nate Green.
Stuart Cooke: I’m the skinny version of Nate Green. That’s the problem. But, yeah, I think DNA and certainly our genes have a lot to play in the way that our body responds to food, for sure.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah. All right. I was just looking at the time, guys. I’ve got a wrap up question, as well, we always ask every week. This has been awesome.
So, I’ll start with you, Mick. What’s the single bet piece of advice you’ve ever been given? And that can be outside of the nutritional world, as well. Anything.
Michael Baker: Oh, put on the spot, okay, off my gut, it’s, I’m going to have to go with my granddad, or our granddad, he’d always say in his broken German accent…He’d always be lecturing us and…
Christian Baker: Do the accent.
Michael Baker: …telling us war stories, and he’d be like, “Michael, whatever someone can do, you can always do better. Never settle for average, you know. If you see someone, you can do it better.”
That was probably, eh, I mean it’s always stuck with me. It’s very basic. You can interpret it how you want, but it’s just like, go learn from the best and do better.
Stuart Cooke: Absolutely. There’s truth in that.
Guy Lawrence: 100 percent. Christian?
Christian Baker: Yeah, no, he’s a great man, and he’s a good immigrant success story, as well. The guy came out from Germany after the war and built himself up in Australia, so we love that guy.
Stuart Cooke: He certainly did it better.
Christian Baker: Yeah, no, he did a great job, and he’s still around. One, my favorite piece of advice is one that Mick and I both love a lot. It’s from one of our favorite business mentors, a gentleman named Fergus, and he said, he passed on something to us that his dad told him growing up, and it’s in the context of business, but I think you can put it into any area of your life, and that is, “Top line vanity; bottom line sanity.” So he’s talking about, if a business is making millions of dollars but not keeping anything, well then it’s stupid. You think you’re cool because you may have lots of money coming in, but you’re not keeping anything.
And I think the same thing can be done with health and nutrition. On the surface, you’ve got this awesome program you’re doing six days of training a week. You’re turning up for all your sessions. You’re doing that morning cardio and that afternoon weight-training. You’re hitting all this perfectly written down routine, but then you’re falling short on your nutrition, and you’re not eating enough veggies, and you think you can get away with cutting corners, and eventually it catches up to you until you look at the bottom line, what the actual results are.
You’re not in good shape. Your immune system sucks. You’re not as energetic as you should be. Your skin’s no good, and you’re falling to pieces, and I think that’s what’s happening to a lot of people.
Michael Baker: Adrenal fatigue.
Guy Lawrence: Massively, yeah.
Christian Baker: People burning the candles on both ends, thinking they’re invincible.
Guy Lawrence: It’s interesting with human nature. You tend to gravitate what you love most and enjoy and go, but you can neglect other areas, and…
Stuart Cooke: That’s right.
Christian Baker: Yeah. It’s hard to control that.
Guy Lawrence: You know, it can fall apart a bit, you know, but I think we’ve all done that at some stage in our lives, as well, you know, and you learn the lessons. Yeah, that’s great, tips-wise. So, where can we get more of the Baker Boys? If anyone who listens to this wants to check out a little bit more?
Michael Baker: At the moment, the best place to get us is bakerboysblog.com.
Guy Lawrence: Right, we’ll have the link up anyway. It’ll be there, so we can support that.
Michael Baker: What about you guys? Just a quick one back on you, I’d be interested to know, like, what’s, well, in terms of nutrition and activity-wise, like, what’s your daily ritual? What’s one thing you do every day? Starting from when you wake.
Guy Lawrence: Starting from when I wake. I’ll go first. What I generally do, because I’m fortunate enough to live right by the beach, I get up, it’s normally by ten past 6:00 a.m. I’m outside. I’ll have a long black and I’ll sit on the beach and then I will dive in the ocean. So that’s how I start the day.
And then, I do that pretty much every day, and if I know me and Stewey are getting into the surfing thing, so if there’s waves and there not too big and scary, I’ll actually start the day with a surf.
Michael Baker: Awesome.
Guy Lawrence: That’s been probably the most addictive thing I’ve got into in a long time, just to be in the ocean and doing that. It’s amazing. And then I come back and I’ll generally have a 180 shake, and then I’ll have a shower and stuff like that and then I’ll tend to have a breakfast a few hours later, so like a late morning breakfast, but I know Stewey’s eaten half his cupboards by 7:30 a.m. If I’m not mistaken, mate.
Stuart Cooke: No, no, I do have a bit of a ritual. So, I start the day every single morning with a big steaming hot water with lemon and ginger. So fresh lemon and ginger. That’s the first that I’ll have, and then I’ll take a multivitamin, some fish oil, and then I’ll get as much color into my breakfast as possible. So I might use breakfast, kind of, making salads, and I’ll just have everything under the sun, and I’ll alternate that perhaps one day with a mega-salad and the other breakfasts I’ll have just a mega-bowl of steamed veggies, and I’ll just drizzle that with oil. I’ll put sardines on the top. I have a 180, you know, a 180 shake is generally my midmorning snack.
Guy Lawrence: And I will add, as well, this is a guy who has to get three kids ready for work, as well, so anyone who’s saying they haven’t got time for breakfast…
Stuart Cooke: Yeah.
Guy Lawrence: …needs to rethink their strategy.
Stuart Cooke: Our house can get crazy in the morning. We’ve got three girls and getting them ready for school and getting them on the good breakfast, as well, yeah, we just kind of start that way, and I’ll get as much color into my meals every single day as I can.
Christian Baker: All about that color. Just quickly on your, when you have lemon in the morning, because I’ve been doing that for years, as well, do you ever find it makes your teeth enamel feel a bit funny? Sensitive?
Stuart Cooke: A little. A little. You know, strangely enough, I was finding that more with peppermint tea, which is really strange, because I wouldn’t have thought I should’ve felt that at all, because the acidity levels, but, yeah, every now and again, but I just feel so almost cleansed when I do that. That I think it, yeah, it really works for me, yeah, just getting that in there.
Michael Baker: Nice.
Stuart Cooke: How about that? So, a few tips there for you boys.
Michael Baker: It’s great. I’m taking notes.
Guy Lawrence: it’s the first time anyone has asked us questions.
Stuart Cooke: That’s right, but seriously if you’re interested in what we eat, jump on to Instagram and we photograph most things.
Christian Baker: We always follow that.
Stuart Cooke: Just to guide people…
Christian Baker: Breakfast out and about in Coogee and Bondi. It’s always avocado, eggs, everything’s very colorful.
Stuart Cooke: Exactly. Exactly.
Guy Lawrence: Keeps us honest when you go public. It’s like I can’t put, oh…
Stuart Cooke: That’s exactly right. Guy does his, Guy addresses his treat meals indoors, I think.
Christian Baker: I’ll never be seen outside of my house eating in public unless it’s like a carrot or an apple or something. Ever. Ever.
Michael Baker: He eats those cookies when the lights are off, and he’s like…
Christian Baker: Yeah, yeah, when the doors are closed, I’ll have cookies, but never, never in front…
Guy Lawrence: Just check if anyone’s looking.
Stuart Cooke: Yeah, no, that’s right. That’s awesome. Boys, thank you so much, guys, for your time. Your insights have been invaluable and, as ever, it’s been a blast.
Guy Lawrence: That was awesome.
Michael Baker: Love your work. Love your learnings.
Guy Lawrence: This will go down XX?XX [0:52:52] this podcast. That was fantastic.
Stuart Cooke: Yeah, awesome.
Christian Baker: It’s an honor to be part of it. I love your show. I listen to it all the time.
Guy Lawrence: Thanks, fellas.
Michael Baker: Thanks, guys. Cheers.

Dave Asprey: The Bulletproof Executive


You can listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

downloaditunesIn this weeks episode:-

  • Dave reveals his personal health journey & how he lost 100lbs [04:15]
  • What Dave eat’s in a day & why he doesn’t eat all morning sometimes [14:45]
  • The Bulletproof Diet. Why bulletproof coffee & intermittent fasting is so effective for health & longevity [20:10]
  • The fine line between CrossFit, exercise & overtraining [39:40]
  • Why he wrote the Better Baby Book [47:15]
  • This is a must: Dave’s single piece of advice for optimum health/wellness [55:10]
  • and much more…

dave_aspreyDave Asprey aka The Bullet Proof Executive is one exceptionally smart man. On top of that he’s a really great guy too! He shares with us his journey from being 297lbs (134kg) in weight to then hacking his health for the fastest & most effective results possible.

He’s also single handily changed the way I drink my coffee (& many others) in the morning. If you haven’t heard of the bulletproof coffee with MCT oil and grass-fed butter (yes you read that right), then it’s only a matter of time before you do! Guy

If you would like to learn more about Dave Asprey and the bullet proof diet, click here.

You can buy bullet proof coffee in Australia here.

Further reading: Better Baby Book

You can view all Health Session episodes here.

Did you enjoy the interview with Dave Asprey? Would love to hear you thoughts in the Facebook comments section below… Guy

 Dave Asprey: The bulletproof executive transcript

Guy Lawrence: I’m Guy Lawrence. This is Stuart Cooke. And our very special guest today is Mr. Dave Asprey. Mate, thanks for joining us. I really appreciate the time.

Dave Asprey: You’ve got it. I’m really glad to be here. I’m a huge fan of Australia. Love visiting.

Guy Lawrence: We’re in heaven over here. We both live near the ocean and we feel blessed, that’s for sure. Definitely.

Stuart Cooke: We certainly do. We make the most of it.

We’ve immersed ourselves in all things Bulletproof over the last month or so, because we knew that we’d be chatting to you. And I had a little bit of a question and a realization that you know a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. And I think that if Google were a person, I think that person would be Dave Asprey. Have you figured out a way to connect to Google from your mind to kind of pull in this information? It’s insane.

Dave Asprey: Yeah, it’s actually this thing right here, see? It’s got a little Google USB port for the head and you just do that and. . . no. This is actually the upgraded focus Brain Trainer. It teaches you to move blood to the front of your head. But I haven’t got the Google direct connect, but I’ve often wished for just a docking station for whatever my PDA at the time is. It used to be a Palm Pilot. Now it’s an iPad or whatever. Samsung NX, I guess.

Stuart Cooke: I’m sure in the future it will all be very Matrix-style and we’ll dock ourselves into something. But let’s see what happens.

Guy Lawrence: Well, me and Stewie sat down the other day and we thought, Dave’s coming on the show, and what should we ask him? We had so many questions for you and so we’re gonna try to condense it and obviously for our listeners as well. And I thought we could start from the beginning, because I was listening to your Joe Rogan show, I think it was the first one, literally last week, and . . . listening to the Joe Rogan show and you mentioned that you were nearly 300 pounds overweight, which I didn’t realize.

Dave Asprey: I wasn’t 300 pounds overweight. I was 300 pounds in total; only a hundred pounds overweight. If I was 300 pounds overweight there’d be, like, stretch marks on my forehead.

Guy Lawrence: Fair enough.

Dave Asprey: I only have stretch marks around my midsection and, like, here. I do have a lot of stretch marks, but I got them when I was 16. It was no good.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, so I guess the question; the first question would be: Can you tell us about that journey from being overweight to where you are today, so people get to know a little bit about Dave if they’re not sure who you are.

Dave Asprey: Sure. It’s kind of funny, but I was just fat as a kid. And I never knew why. In fact, I always figured it was because I was too lazy or I ate too much; I didn’t have enough willpower or something like that.

And it got really bad. By the time I was done with my first four years of university, I was 297 pounds. I’d had three knee surgeries. I had arthritis in my knees when I was 14. And I was on antibiotics about once a month for 15 years straight for chronic sinusitis and strep throat and things like that.

I had nosebleeds five, 10 times a day, was pretty common. And I bruised easily and I still had played soccer for 13 years. I used to be a kind of competitive cyclist. But I was always fat. And it was kind of like, “Whatever. What can you do about it?”

And it was in my mid-20s I got really serious. Like: “This is enough.” And I started working out like six days a week, an hour and a half a day, 45 minutes of cardio, 45 minutes of weights. And the cardio was with a backpack full of bricks on a 15-degree incline, going up, not running but walking, enough that you’re panting like crazy.

And I never lost the weight. Got strong. Didn’t lose the weight. And I kept having the same problems. You know: bad skin, zits, body odor, just the whole nine yards. “What’s going on here?”

So I decided that I was gonna be a biohacker. I also noticed along the way here that my brain was failing. And this, maybe, is what really put a nail in that decision.

I was working at a company called 3Com in Silicon Valley. This was one of the pioneers in the networking business. It was 3Com or Cisco was gonna win and, well, Cisco won. But at the time, those were the two dominant players.

I would sit in meetings, and after the meeting, I would think, “I don’t really know what happened in there. I’m a zombie.” I’m sure I was there; people didn’t tell me I fell asleep but I’m pretty sure I was asleep. So, whatever.

And I got so concerned about this that I took out disability insurance at 26. Because I was scared: Like, how am I gonna make ends meet if I can’t work? I’m young. I should be in my prime and I think something’s wrong, but maybe it’s just me.
So I started measuring my performance on this simple solitaire game you can play on your computer called Freestyle. And I would plot it. And some days, the data showed I was a zombie. And it’s really liberating to have zombie data, because when you get that data it tells you that it’s not all in your head, so you can actually have a view of yourself.

That’s what we call self-awareness, really, but it was data-driven self-awareness. And what that did for me was it let me say, “All right. Now I need to attack a problem.” And being a computer hacker by trade, you know, I helped to create modern cloud computing; not like Al Gore created the Internet but, you know, I was at the company that created cloud computing called Exodus Communications and played a key role there.
So, given this whole: “How do you hack it? How do you get around it? How do you engineer a solution to a new problem?” I said, “All right. My brain is dead, so I’m gonna start taking smart drugs.” And it worked! I actually got my brain back enough that I could start upgrading the rest of my body.

And we go 15 years later, I’ve spent the last 10 years as president, chairman, or board member of an anti-aging research and non-profit group called Silicon Valley Health Institute. I’ve had a chance to talk to more than a hundred anti-aging doctors and researchers and physicians, and, kind of, people leading their field to understand what’s going on in the human body, what’s going on in the mind, how does the nervous system work, how does biochemistry work, how does the cell membrane affect things, what are neurotransmitters.

Not from a medical perspective. I’m married to a doctor and she knows more about the tibia, fibula, and the neck bone’s connected to the ankle bone stuff than I ever will, to be perfectly honest. But when it comes to hacking these systems to get the outcome you want, without knowing every intermediate step, which we don’t know in the human body. . . And, by the way, when you’re troubleshooting a complex cloud computing system, you don’t know every step in the middle either. You have to hypothesize and test.

So, that’s what I started doing with an N equals 1 experiment on myself way before Quantified Self was cool.

Guy Lawrence: That’s awesome. So, I guess, in a nutshell, that’s biohacking? Self-experimentation, to a degree?

Dave Asprey: There is two parts of it. There’s the Quantified Self angle, which isn’t really biohacking. This is kind of common. You get devices like this. This is a watch, although the battery’s dead, and it monitors your heart rate without a chest strap. And I’m actually; I’m a CTO of this company. It’s called Basis. And I usually only just wear it for show and it’s not that useful as a daily-wear watch. It’s not waterproof, for one thing. A slight problem. But it’s a cool gadget.

So, there’s also those scales where you weigh yourself every day. They upload to the web. And sleep monitors. I’m looking at; this is prototype one from a company called BEdit, which I’m super-excited about; I’m starting to work with those guys.
So, there’s all these devices that can tell you what’s going on in your body. Because, honestly, unless you’re a very unusual person, you probably suck at knowing what’s going on inside your biology.

You can teach yourself what’s going on. So, there’s this whole cognitive feedback loop where you’re, like, “OK, if I, at the end of the day or the week or the month, I look at what I did, I can learn more, and I can make a decision to do something different.”

The thing I discovered after doing that for a long time is that my intent and my decision would be: I’m gonna do acts to improve my health. Let’s say I’m not gonna eat bagels this week. Well, then, you’re in a meeting, halfway through the week, and you’re kinda tired and you’re kinda hungry and somehow you convince yourself that it’s a great idea to take a bite of that bagel. And then you go, “Damn it! I ate a bagel! I’m a failure. I’m a bad person.”

What’s going on there is a core part of biohacking. It’s that there’s parts of your nervous system way faster than your conscious thinking. And if you don’t manage those parts of your nervous system, they’ll convince you to eat the bagel. But it’s not actually you eating the bagel. It’s an avatar in your head eating the bagel. Right?

So, that’s what’s going on. And you can train that part of the body. It’s just like you train an animal. And the liberation that comes from understanding that when crazy thoughts pop into your head, or behaviours that are really not the behaviours that you intended, happen, that it’s a part of your automated defense systems of your body that are driving those behaviours, not your conscious decisions. And it’s also a sign, if you’re doing those things, that you need to learn how to manage the unconscious parts of your body, because that’s where all the trouble happens.

And the three kinds of trouble are really, really obvious. You’ll see these in any dog. Number one is: “Oh, look! Food! I’ll eat it. It doesn’t matter if it’s cat poop. It might be food. I’m gonna eat that, too.” Right?

Then you go, “All right. What else does a dog do? “Oh, look! A stick!” And distractibility; you’re all over the place.

And the final one, which is maybe my favorite, is, “Oh, look! A leg! I’ll go hump it.”

Those are the behaviours that get most people in trouble most of the time, and they’re all unconscious, high-speed behaviours that happen way faster than you can think about it and go: “Actually, come to think of it, I don’t want to hump that leg.” Your body’s already like, “Yeah, do it!” And it’s convincing you that you should do it. Well, that’s your body misbehaving. You’ve got to tell the body to behave itself.

Stuart Cooke: How would you; you have a lot of stuff going on in your life, I’m guessing. You know: with work and commitments and Bulletproof. Family. You know, a lot of stuff going on. How do you disconnect from that to rest and calm yourself, in the nighttime, you know, just to sleep.

Dave Asprey: Well, if you’re watching the video, let’s see. See that device back there? I connect my head up to it. OK. Not the one with all the dials and gauges. But the laptop, underneath them. That’s a neuro-feedback system. So I actually will play my brainwaves back to myself. You get the brainwaves from the head, and then you actually turn it into sounds and you play the sounds back to you.

So, my brain, even though it’s pretty darn highly trained; I’ve done this 40 years, the “Zen in 7 Days”-type thing and I have 40YearsOfZen.com. And things like that. So, I’m more aware than the average guy, but I’m sure there’s people that are more aware than I am. I just cheated. I didn’t spend an hour a day mediating for 40 years to get there. I spent a week hooked up to expensive computers.

But this is kind of a junior version of that, and what I’m doing there is I’m laying down on the floor, sitting in a chair, and just listening. And I hear music. And then the music kind of has static. And the static is happening when my brain is flopping from one state to another.

And the brain doesn’t like static very much. So, it’s says, “Oh, wait. I was flopping.” And it stops flopping around and it calms down. That’s one thing I might do to disconnect.

The other thing is, I have a 6-year-old and a 3-year-old and my computer would, like, break half the stuff from my office if I told it out of all this stuff it’s stuck to. But if I turned it around, you’d be seeing my office, my biohacking lab here, there’s a deck overlooking a little pond, and a forest surrounds me. So, I go out, I have lunch with my kids. I work from home. I work really hard. I work long hours. I’m up late at night. I’m talking with people. This is my fourth podcast today.

Guy Lawrence: Really? Wow.

Dave Asprey: Oh, yeah. And you can see my energy level. I’m doing pretty good, right?

Guy Lawrence: Absolutely.
Dave Asprey: This is a guy who used to have chronic fatigue syndrome, Lyme Disease, small intestine bacteria overgrowth, mercury toxicity, obesity, pre-diabetes, really thick blood and high risk for a stroke and heart attack. Right?

If I can do this, imagine what you guys can do, because you’re nowhere near as screwed up as I used to be.

Guy Lawrence: Your days are packed, right? And everyone complains about short of time, they make bad food choices, there’s a million things of why they can’t look after their health. If you’re so busy, what do you eat through the day as well? How do you stay on top of that?

Dave Asprey: Number one, snacking is for people who are starving. You don’t need to snack if your body is well-fed. So, for breakfast this morning I had Bulletproof coffee made with upgraded coffee beans, which, by the way, you can buy in Australia. We actually have them stocked there now. And it’s OptimOZ is the name of the company.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, we know Leon.

Dave Asprey: He’s totally Bulletproof. He’s an awesome dude.
So, definitely check out OptimOZ. You get the beans there. And does it really matter, the beans? Actually, it does. If it didn’t, I wouldn’t make the darn things. Like, I’m not interested, and certainly not in the business of making stuff that’s, like, “Oh, yeah, everyone else has that but I have it, too.” I try to find things that are unique and that work really effectively. And most of the world. . . Actually, that’s not true. Europe and Asia have certain standards for coffee that other countries don’t have. So, while we’re getting poor-quality coffee that affects your brain thought.

So, you start Bulletproof coffee, the beans, grass-fed butter, and, by the way, there’s awesome grass-fed butter available in Australia. When I was there, I found three or four different brands when I looked around. I thought that was kind of cool. And it was really good, too.

And then, from there, I added Upgraded Collagen, which is a protein supplement that I make. I don’t always put that in in the morning. Usually I just do Bulletproof intermittent fasting, which is just the coffee, MCT oil, upgraded MCT, upgraded coffee, and butter.

Some days, because I worked out two days ago, I’ve gotta have a little extra protein. I’ll do that.

Lunch, I had a salad with a ton of guacamole. Slide a little salad dressing on it, made from scratch, relatively easy to make. Immersion blender, sliced-up cucumbers, and some cold salmon left over from either last night or this morning. So, basically, it’s salmon salad.

And that was around 1:30. And then I haven’t had any snacks. That would be completely like; I don’t even want to have a snack. I’d get tired if I had a snack.
So, I will get again. . . Let’s see. It’s 5:30 my time. I’ll have dinner around 6:30 and it will probably be like a steak or a hamburger, a bunch of vegetables prepared from the Upgraded Chef book, which is basically a soup. I’ll put a bunch of steamed vegetables, a bunch of butter, MCT, blend it with some spices, and maybe some other vegetables or some other side dish. I’m not sure. I’m not gonna be cooking that dinner.

If I was cooking it, I could have it on the table within 20 minutes of starting to cook, and that would be the biggest meal of the day. Lunch was a five-minute meal. Breakfast was a five-minute meal.

Stuart Cooke: Pretty quick. So, starches, grains at all?

Dave Asprey: Probably not today. If I was gonna have any kind of starch, it would be at the evening meal. And, grains, the only grain I would touch would be white rice. The rest of the grains, honestly, if you can afford it, don’t eat them. They are not gonna make you live longer. They are not good for your health.

Stuart Cooke: And even these new “wonder grains,” the, like quinoa, I guess, that they are saying is kind of this fantastic health-giving grain?

Dave Asprey: Are those the same people that said soy was a fantastic, health-giving food?

Stuart Cooke: Could be. Could well be.

Dave Asprey: Here’s the thing. It doesn’t have strict gluten in it, but if you were a seed, let’s say, who evolved as a seed. Your function is to not be food for animals because then you don’t get to sprout. Your function is to sprout. Your function is not to spoil, because there’s a lot of bacterial and fungal pressure on carbohydrate sources.

So, basically, everyone wants to get what’s in you. So, do you just sit there and die and then not evolve as a species and become extinct, or do you develop natural pesticides and coat yourself in them, which make animal sick if they eat too much of you and repel other invaders?

Well, that would be what we call “whole grains.” So, grains have phytic acid and they have a whole bunch of other defense systems, mostly lectin-based, which is a kind of protein that sticks; a kind of sugar that sticks to. . . I’m sorry; I have it backwards. It’s a kind of protein that sticks to a sugar that lines your cells. And it’s a problem.

So, if you were to eat a legume or a grain, what you’d want to do is you want to soak it for a long time and then you want to sprout it a little bit to deactivate most of the defense systems.

But, honestly, even if you do that, you’re still getting a lot of starch. It’s gonna raise your insulin. It’s gonna raise your blood glucose levels higher than you want. So, why don’t you just eat white rice, which is the least toxic of all of the grains? Don’t eat it all the time. Not for breakfast. Eat it a couple of times a week on a Bulletproof diet once a week. Like, have a day where you eat a lot of starch to refuel so you don’t get adrenal stress from being always in fat-burning mode.

But you want to be in fat-burning mode a couple of days a week, at minimum.

Guy Lawrence: I’ve got a question for you, Dave, and I’m sort of jumping forward a bit, but with the Bulletproof coffee, because I’ve been doing that now probably for a month. I’ve been putting the MCT on in and the grass-fed butter in the morning and I put it up on Facebook and the first thing, question, was, you know, “Why?” And they were, like, “Why MCT oil? Why intermittent fasting?” So, I thought I’d ask you that question so you could explain it, because you’ll explain it a lot better than I would.

Dave Asprey: All right. First, intermittent fasting is well-established to change your genetic expression in such a way that it replicates long-lived animals. So, basically, if you want to live a long time, you at least want to make an animal live a long time, you cut back on the number of calories they eat, and they live longer.

That’s true for humans, too, and there’s a group of people, some of whom are my friends, who have gone on those radical, low-calorie diets and they walk around looking like sticks and they’re super-thin. And I don’t actually advocate that in the slightest. But it is an anti-aging sort of proposed technique.

You can get most of the same benefits of doing that by just not eating for 18 hours a day.

Now, if you’re like I was in my; when I was 25 or 28, the idea of not eating for 18 hours was repellant and offensive, because it would disable me. I used to, like, stop meetings at 11:45. “Sorry, guys. I know that the meeting goes till lunch, but if I don’t have lunch right now, I’m gonna kill one of you and eat your arm.”

And, literally, I would just stand up and walk out. And people were, like, “Are we gonna finish the meeting?” And I was, like, “Sorry. I don’t really care because I’m not here.”

Guy Lawrence: “I have to eat.”

Dave Asprey: Yeah. And now I’m like, 18 hours, whatever. I can go 24, 36. It’s really not a big deal. At 36 hours I’m gonna be kind of hungry, a little tired, but it’s not gonna kill me.

And what’s going on there, with intermittent fasting, is that you’re telling your body, “OK, there’s no food here, so you might as well take all this stuff you’re ready to digest food and use it to clean yourself out.” It’s a processed called autophagy. And it turns on.

So, you get some real benefits, including weight loss, that come just from intermittent fasting. The down side is that people who live a high-intensity life like I do, or even just people who have kids and a job, OK, you’re gonna end your 18 hours right at about 2 o’clock in the afternoon. So, the time when you’re coldest and tiredest is right in the middle of your workday. And you’re gonna be cranky. So, people can’t stick with it.

What I did with Bulletproof intermittent fasting is I said, well, let’s look at what fasting really does. It turns off the protein digestion and the sugar digestion cycles. But if you eat only pure fat, which, in this case, with coffee, what happens is that your body thinks you’re still fasting but you get all the energy from the fat. So, you get this laser focus; this amazing energy.

And why grass-fed butter and MCT oil? Let’s talk first about inflammation. Inflammation is a major issue in human performance. If you’re inflamed, you’re less likely to perform well and you’re more likely to get sick. In fact, you might just be sick, which itself can be a cause of inflammation.
So, when you eat butter from grass-fed cows, you’re getting a short-chain fatty acid called butyric acid. It’s shown in publicly available studies to decrease brain inflammation. When you have a decrease in brain inflammation, your brain can actually conduct the electricity faster. You think faster.

Butyric acid also is one of the things that cures your gut. So, this is just a normal thing butter does, but short-chain fatty acids help to keep the gut lining intact. So, people who practice this Bulletproof intermittent fasting and put grass-fed butter in their coffee are getting the benefits of the grass-fed butter.

And then we have the benefits of coffee oils themselves. You need to brew your coffee using the upgraded beans without a paper filter. This means a French press, a gold filter in your coffee maker or espresso. Coffee oils themselves are anti-inflammatory for two different inflammation pathways in the brain. So, you’re using coffee as like a performance-enhancing kind of herbal thing.

And you do that and, to cap it all off, you add upgraded MCT oil. Upgraded MCT oil does something kind of magic. It’s six times stronger than coconut oil in terms of this one effect. And the effect is that normally we burn sugar all the time. And it takes 26 steps to turn sugar in your diet into ATP or the fuel in your cells. It takes three steps to turn the MCT oil into ATP energy in your cells. MCT goes to BHB and then it goes to co-enzyme A and then it goes straight to ATP.

What this means is, think about, like, a hybrid car. You have an electric motor and a gas motor. And you’re the same way. You can run on fat and you can run on sugar. Well, if you want to be most powerful, you should metabolically be flexible to work either one when your body needs it, or even, better yet, to burn both at the same time.

So, when you’re drinking this cup of coffee, you’re seriously hacking your brain. You’re turning off inflammation. You’re giving it an addition energy source it didn’t have before. And you’re telling your body and your brain, including your stomach, like: “Hey, it’s time to take a break here.”

So, it’s having the benefits of intermittent fasting without paying the price. In this case, you can have your butter and eat it, too.

Stuart Cooke: Wow. That’s insane. Now, I have to confess, and I don’t know how this is gonna go down, but I have never had a cup of coffee in my life, ever.

Dave Asprey: Why’d you let him on the podcast?

Guy Lawrence: I’ve been putting cups of coffee in front of him: “Mate, you’ve gotta try this. This changed the way I drink coffee forever.” And he. . .

Stuart Cooke: And another confession, Guy, I’ve been sneaking some of your MCT oil into my smoothie that I’ve been making ‘round at your place.

Dave Asprey: I do that all the time. MCT in smoothies is awesome. And if you want to, like, rock your world, make guacamole. Just mash up avocados and squirt MCT in it and mash it up some more. It changes the mouth feel of foods without changing the flavor. It’s phenomenal. I put it in everything. I pour it on my vegetables. I don’t like going without it.

Stuart Cooke: We do that. I had a whole avocado coconut oil smoothie just before we came on here. But I am intrigued to want to try a cup of your Bulletproof coffee now that you’ve explained exactly what’s happening with it.

Dave Asprey: There are, I would say, I know probably a hundred people who didn’t drink coffee who decided to try coffee as a nutritional supplement, essentially. Where they were saying, OK, green tea has certain known effects. Well, coffee does, too.

And what no one talks about is that coffee is the number one source of antioxidants in most of the Western world. It blows wine out of the water. If you’re going around having a glass of red, nice Australian wine thinking it’s for the antioxidants, like, seriously, have two espresso shots and you’ll have, like, 17 cups of wine worth of antioxidants. It’s that big of a difference.
Guy Lawrence: Is that right?

Dave Asprey: Yeah.

Stuart Cooke: How does that stack up against green tea as an antioxidant?

Dave Asprey: It dominates green tea. Green tea’s number two but coffee wins.

Guy Lawrence: There you go. OK.

Stuart Cooke: All right. You know what you’re going to be doing tomorrow, Guy. You’re going to be making two cups of coffee and I think I’ll record myself drinking my very first cup of coffee and we’ll put it out across Facebook.

Guy Lawrence: Fantastic.

Dave Asprey: That’s gonna be cool. I really want, not just to have you drink it, I want a recording of you 30 seconds to an hour after you drink it going, “Whoa!” And here’s warning: Well, actually, you already take MCT oil. You’ll be fine. There are a group of people who have to start out with just a teaspoon of MCT oil until they get used to it, because their body is turned off metabolically that if you turn everything on all at once, they get, like, they feel sweaty and hot and it’s a little bit uncomfortable.

Stuart Cooke: Oh, OK. OK. And I hear that loose bowels as well, if you’re not used to this kind of stuff? I mean, it will clean you out that way?

Dave Asprey: We call it “Disaster Pants.”

Stuart Cooke: Right. OK.

Stuart Cooke: If you take too much of it and you’ve never had it before, it’s bad. In fact, there’s a reporter from Yahoo! News, really awesome woman, super into Bulletproof, and I’m not gonna name her because, well, I said “Yahoo! News”; maybe it’s too late. But she ignored the warning, being kind of a Bulletproof mindset, said, I’m, like, “Start slowly!” And she took like a half a cup of MCT oil in her first coffee. Which is a big dose. I think that would affect me and I kind of take the stuff all the time. And she said, “Ah, I felt kind of strange afterward.” And at the end of her story she kind of reported that.

But, yeah, that’s what happens if you take too much. So, it’s a really powerful thing. It’s like the octane booster stuff you can put in your car. You can buy it at the automotive store and you put it in the tank and it raises. . . Well, if you only put that in your gas tank, well, you’re gonna start your car up and it will shoot out the back. It’s the same idea.

Stuart Cooke: I’m going to shop for a man nappy this afternoon. And then I’ll come round, I’ll be very prepared at Guy’s place.

Guy Lawrence: I like that you’re trying it at my place, not yours.

Stuart Cooke: I’ve got kids here. I don’t want to mess the toilet.

Dave Asprey: You already put it in your smoothies. You’ll be fine.

Guy Lawrence: We should give that a go.

Stuart Cooke: We are; Guy and myself, we’re very focused on nutrition and we’re gonna hit you with the million dollar question of cause. Which is kind of crazy. But in a nutshell, why are getting fatter?

Dave Asprey: There’s a lot going on there.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah.

Dave Asprey: The short answer is, we could blame Apple; the computers. They seem responsible for lots of environmental ills. So. . .

Stuart Cooke: OK. Let’s blame them.

Dave Asprey: I’m only saying that in jest. There’s many different factors involved. But one of them actually is your electronic devices. And it has to do with circadian rhythm and how you go to sleep and how well you sleep and your melatonin levels.

Stuart Cooke: Very interesting. We’ve done a bit of research into EMR and EMF as well, and being aware that we’re living in an environment now where we are exposed to wifi and stuff like that and how that can mess up with your natural rhythms of your body. So, I can certainly understand where you’re coming from there.

Dave Asprey: That’s a part of it. I don’t think EMF is necessarily the top thing that makes us fat. It increases myological stress. And stress does cause weight gain.

But it’s actually the light that comes off these devices. One of the things I do with my Bulletproof coaching clients, and part of what I do is I set aside time every week and I have a set of coaching clients around the globe and I just do it over Skype, but we talk about, like, hedge fund managers and entrepreneurs and CEOs and people who are really into high performance and occasionally like a pro athlete or someone.

But it’s usually people who are really, like, “How do I have the energy and the focus to just go all day long and to manage all these stresses in life?” And it’s always sleep that’s a problem when we start our sessions. And then we hack that first.

So, staring at a bright light, including your iPhone screen, including your computer, at night, after the sun goes down, really jacks up your biological systems. You don’t make melatonin for four hours after you look at a bright light, even if you get up in the middle of the night, you flip on the lights to go the to bathroom, flip ‘em off, you’re done. You’re not making melatonin again that night. And that’s a problem.

So, in our house, we have a light in our bathroom, and this is something I carry on the website, but it’s a light that doesn’t emit any blue spectrum. It’s like a yellow bulb. And when you turn that on, you don’t hurt your melatonin.

When I’m here in my office at night, I have software that turns down the intensity and changes the color spectrum. But it’s not enough. Either I wear orange glasses or I do this.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah! Right. OK.

I’ve seen the orange glasses, and I’m aware of the blue light, and. . . Yeah, insane. So, where would we get the glasses from and how would we wear them?

Dave Asprey: The cheapest glasses are laser protection goggles made by Uvex on Amazon. I have a pair right by my bed so I’m not gonna, like, disconnect from the headphones and grab them. Normally they’re on my desk.

And you just wear them after the sun goes down. You don’t have to wear them every night. But you really will sleep better.

And the other thing is, turn off the LEDs in your room. Every single LED, whatever color, but especially blue and green. Put black tape over them. The curtains, if there’s light coming around, get another curtain to put over the top of that. You should be able to open your eyes at night and not see anything. When you do that, you will sleep profoundly.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. That’s insane. Sleep has been a big topic, I think, especially for us. Me in particularly because I have; my sleep has been shot for the last five years. But I think I’ve been through a journey where we’ve looked at magnesium. We’ve looked at melatonin supplementation as well. We’ve looked at EMF; moving the bed, you know, outside of heavy fields.

But it was only the other night that I thought, you know, I reckon it might be down to my sinuses. Because I was a mouth-breather at night. And I thought, wow, that’s really insane. And I have quite a clear nose, and when I lay down, my nose gets quite stuffy and I breathe through my mouth. So, I did a little experiment last night and bought a nasal decongestant and blast it up each nostril. Super clear. Went down and had a great night’s sleep. Which is insane.

Dave Asprey: You need to do an allergy, like a blood allergy panel. If this is happening when you lie down but not the rest of the time. . . What’s your comforter made out of? How old is it? Do you have a dust mite cover on your bed? And maybe you have an allergy to dust mites. But environmental allergies will decimate your sleep. And so will food allergies. You could have a dairy intolerance or something. And if you’re eating dairy protein and you shouldn’t be, that would cause your sinuses to be more congested.

But I see this all the time. In fact, even for me this was a problem about 18 months ago. My wife is from Sweden and they sleep with these ridiculously thick, like, sheet things but they’re; I grew up in a desert. I sleep with, like, a sheet and a blanket like a civilized person. But these Vikings, I tell ya, featherduster things. Whatever. So, I noticed she fluffed it. I was, like, “Bleh! What is that?” She said, “Oh, these don’t ever go bad. These feather things are good forever.” Like, it’s 20 years old, get it out of here and let’s try it without. And my sleep quality improved, too.

So, check out your mattress. And they have these, like, closed-cell, hypoallergenic covers. Totally get one of those. Put an air filter in your room. And see what happens. You might be amazed.

But that’s not why we’re all fat. It’s only a part of it.

You’ve got to read my sleep-hacking post. There’s a bunch more stuff like that.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, I’ve been through them and we’re gonna be pushing it out to our readers. Because I know that sleep is a huge thing.

Guy Lawrence: But would it be fair to say, than, that if your sleep falls apart then that’s the base of; that’s gonna cause all the other problems as well. Because if you’re not sleeping well and you’re tired, you’re gonna start making wrong decisions as well, aren’t you?

Dave Asprey: Well, not necessarily. I did two years where I ate 4,000 calories a day. I didn’t exercise at all. And I slept five hours or less per night every night. In fact, sometimes only two hours.

And I actually grew a six-pack during that time. And I don’t think I made bad decisions.

You can train yourself to, as you go through stress conditioning, to make great decisions while you’re tired. And one of the things that’s really strange is that a lot of what happens when you’re operating in a tired state is that that dog in your body that I was referencing earlier; it’s worried. It’s like, “Oh, my God! I’m tired. I’m gonna die.” And it has this little: “Go to sleep! Aaa!”

So, there’s a lot of, like, nervous energy that comes from being tired that’s unnecessary. It’s when you train that part of your nervous system to basically accept the fact that you’re tired and you’re not gonna die, you’re still gonna do what needs doing and you’re gonna to go to sleep, that’s what happens in boot camp in the military. That’s one of the reasons that they torture you like that, so you realize, yeah, you can function at the level you need to function, even if you’re really tired. And when you realize that, the stress of being tired, not the stress of not getting enough sleep, but actually just the worry about the state, goes away and suddenly your performance goes up dramatically. And I’ve certainly done that.

Stuart Cooke: So, how many hours a night would you get of quality sleep?

Dave Asprey: I get about five hours a night, usually. Lately, in the last six months, I’m doing an experiment. I’m like, OK, maybe I really do need more. So, I’ve gotten my average up to five hours and 57 minutes over the past six months. I have a little monitoring device.

Stuart Cooke: I was gonna say, can you be a little bit more precise in that timing?

Guy Lawrence: Would you increase that sleep if people are exercising a lot?

Dave Asprey: Oh, absolutely. One of the reasons that I’m a huge fan of the exercise protocols on the Bulletproof Executive, which are based largely on Body By Science by Doug McGuff is, well, I don’t really have a lot of recovery time. So, I’m going to, after this, after we’re done here, I’m gonna go up and have dinner with the kids, play with the kids, spend some quality time with my wife, and around 9 p.m. I’m gonna come back here and I have another three hours of stuff scheduled. And then I’m probably gonna write something and I’ll go to bed around 2 and I’ll wake up around 7:30 or 8.

And I do this over and over and over and over. So, what was your original question? I forget.

Guy Lawrence: Increasing sleep with exercise.

Dave Asprey: So, basically, if I work out, I’m gonna have to add at least an hour to that. So what I’ll do today is I’ll probably stand on my whole-body vibration platform (I have an Ultra Vibe) and that’s gonna get my lymphatic circulation going, it’s gonna get all the muscles firing, more so than a walk for an hour would, really. Because 30 times a second, my body’s doing this.

And while I’m doing that, I can relax, I can close my eyes, or, heck, I can watch something on TV if I want to, like it’s totally free time.

But I’m only gonna lift weights once this week.

Stuart Cooke: So, for those of us that don’t have access to a system like you just explained, is there anything that we can do that will simulate the effects?

Dave Asprey: Well, the rebounder, the old little trampoline that you jump on? It’s a really good detoxing thing. It’s good strengthening. It keeps your bones strong. The problem is, you’re gonna do one a second. I’m doing 30 a second. So, you might want to rebound for a half-hour or something.

Guy Lawrence: Three days.

Stuart Cooke: That’s awesome. Guy, I think why don’t we go into the overtraining as well.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, sure, absolutely. Because that was another question. You know, I CrossFit a fair bit. I see guys that do a lot of training. A lot. And I’m always conscious of where’s that line between exercise for, you know, athleticism, and then also overtraining, and, you know, doing yourself more harm than good long-term. What would your take on that be?

Dave Asprey: I love the intensity of CrossFit. I don’t like the frequency of CrossFit.

And it’s so easy to make a daily habit, and so I totally understand why you’d want to do that. And when I used to exercise six days a week, that made it really easy because you just do it every day. It’s much harder to stick with something you do once or twice a week. It requires a calendar and scheduling and an amount of self-discipline a lot of people don’t have.

So, with CrossFit, I see this very often in my clients. In fact, one of them who lives in Australia was getting ready to compete in the CrossFit Games and just, like, lost his mojo. Like, his passion for life was going down. And he’s a pretty high-performance guy. And I said, “Look. Your sleep quality is disrupted.” One of things that comes from overtraining is completely useless sleep and not very much of it.

And I said, “Why don’t you just get a cortisol panel? Like, get a blood test. And let’s see. I can predict what’s gonna happen here.” And he got it and his cortisol was sky-high. So he backed off on his number of workouts and his zest for life returned very quickly. It helps, too; he had made a mistake some people make on the Bulletproof Diet. They go low-carb and they feel so amazing when they’re eating just the meat, vegetables, and 60 percent fat, maybe, from the healthy kinds of fat. You just have just this Bulletproof state. It feels so amazing when you get there.

The problem is, you stay in it. He wasn’t doing the carbohydrate refueling that I recommend for guys at least once a week. If you’re lifting heavy during CrossFit, you probably need to do that twice a week. And there’s some people who try to stay in ketosis all the time and do CrossFit and your adrenals are not gonna like that eventually.

So, it’s a dangerous thing to be overtrained. It’s no different to overtrain than it is to starve yourself by not eating enough of the right food or to be under, like, huge amounts of emotional stress. Even, like, a divorce or, you know, your house burning down or something like that. The level of stress your body goes under, it doesn’t matter if it comes from exercise or nutrition or factors emotionally around you. You have a bucket of stress you can handle every day, and we measure that in adrenal reserve.
So, if you’re gonna kind of beat the crap out of your body by overtraining at that level, you need to support your adrenals first and foremost. Number one recommendation: a teaspoon, maybe half a teaspoon, of salt in the morning. Sea salt in a glass of water, right as soon as you wake up.

And that sounds a little weird, but when you wake up, here’s what happens in your body. This is not what happens up here. This is what happens in a mammal; the dog inside you. So, your eyes open and it says: “I’m gonna have to get out of bed. If I stand up real quick, there might not be enough blood pressure, so there won’t be blood in the brain. If that happens, I’ll fall down and hit my head on a rock and a tiger will eat me. Then I would die. That would suck.” So, it’s an emergency situation.

So, immediately the adrenals turn on. They create cortisol and adrenaline and the cortisol is working really hard to raise potassium like it does in the morning to lower potassium, which happens in morning. Well, if you give it the sodium that it’s trying to do, it stops freaking out and at that point you’ve saved that adrenal reserve for later in the day to handle other stressors in life.

And this is a really powerful technique. And it’s something they use for people who have dysfunctional adrenal glands. But you can use it even if you have functioning adrenal glands to give yourself more kick later in the day.

The down side? If you have too much salt in the morning, it’s gonna give you Disaster Pants. So, start with half. . .

Guy Lawrence: So, if you up the salt and up the MCT if you haven’t done it before, then you’re in for a treat.

Dave Asprey: Pretty much the worst of all is if you do salts; a ton of salts, a ton of MCT, maybe some extra magnesium, and then stand on the whole-body vibration platform.

Stuart Cooke: That is fascinating. So, you take the salt before you get out of bed, so you’d have it by your bedside table?

Dave Asprey: That is the most ideal way to do it but then you have to think ahead. I just kind of wake up in the morning and I pop a handful of amino acids and stuff like that. I throw some salt in the hand and swallow it.

Guy Lawrence: Bang. Fantastic.

Stuart Cooke: So, you’re talking about popping salt and amino acids. Supplementation. I hear on the grapevine that you supplement quite well, and in the past you have taken quite a lot of supplements. What do you currently take?

Dave Asprey: It’s kind of a long list, still. At the height at my, kind of, anti-aging and also recovery regimen, recovering from years of my body not working very, I took 187 capsules a day.

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Dave Asprey: Yeah. So, I think I had Ray Kurzweil by two capsules or something. This famous inventor who also has an anti-aging program and all.

And that requires a certain amount of organization and planning, and it also is kind of expensive. But what I do now is I have kind of three groupings a day. There’s one in the morning, because there’s things that work best on an empty stomach or things where it doesn’t matter. So, I take those when I first wake up.

Then there’s a group of things that you take with a meal. And if I’m on the road, I’ll take them usually with dinner. If I’m at home, I’ll usually take them with lunch. It doesn’t really matter.

And those are things that are gonna upset your stomach if you take them on an empty stomach, or things that require fat in order to be absorbed. And then the final thing is right before bed I take another small handful of pills. And these are things that enhance sleep and recovery. So, kind of in reverse order. At night, I would take GABA, theanine, magnesium, vitamin C, and glutathione; the liposomal form, in fact, that I was squirting in before the show. The stuff; upgraded glutathione.

Guy Lawrence: I’ve got that. Yeah, I take that, yeah.

Dave Asprey: Yeah, and it doesn’t taste great. I’m working on making it taste better.

Guy Lawrence: It’s interesting taste. The first time I had a shot of that under my tongue, I was, like, “Whoa! That’s pretty. . .”

Stuart Cooke: Well, the smell is pretty extreme. It smells powerful.

Dave Asprey: It’s a sulfur-bearing molecule. It is made out of sulfur and it is not pleasant-tasting, but I don’t know if either of you felt really strong effects from it. A lot of people really notice it. And I even know a nationally renowned author who’s a shaman and writes about shamanic experiences in Peru and things like that who uses glutathione regularly because he can get into those really advanced meditation states better for it.

So, I have no doubt in my mind that glutathione enhances cognitive function and there’s lots of studies about that. So, it also works for detox reasons. And we live in a world full of chemicals that cavemen didn’t deal with, so the idea that I’m gonna get my vitamins from my foods, great, just get your toxins from Mother Nature and you’ll be perfectly balanced. Not gonna happen.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, well, cognitive function I guess, Guy, try a couple of sprays tomorrow. See what happens. See how that works for us.

We had a question regarding a book that you’ve written as well. And kind of moving forward a little bit. It’s a babies book. Now, I’ve got three kids who have got lots of friends with books. There it is.

Dave Asprey: I don’t know if you can see it.

Stuart Cooke: I can see it.

Dave Asprey: There we go. No, that’s not my wife, by the way. Stock photos. Wiley, my publisher, was evil about that. They’re like, “No.” I’m like, “You haven’t even seen the photos!” They said, “We don’t care. We always use stock photos.”

Stuart Cooke: I wondered if you could just briefly explain what the book is about, as well, for our audience.

Dave Asprey: Sure. The Better Baby Book (by the way, BetterBabyBook.com would be the place to go to learn more) is what my wife and I did to reverse her infertility. When she was 35, she was diagnosed with polycystic ovary syndrome and told she wouldn’t be able to have kids. We had our first child at 39 and our second at 42 without any fertility treatments other than what’s in the book.

And what’s in the book is how do you use food and the environment to change the way your body reacts and to change even the genetic expression of your children.
We learned, about 15 years ago, that the environment changes your genetic expression and those changes are inheritable. We learned then and then no one ever said what to do with that information. So, I went out and, as a biohacker, we compiled 1300 references to all sorts of things you could do to decrease inappropriate inflammation, to reduce the chances of autoimmune problems, and to increase pregnancy health.

And our midwife, who has delivered 700 kids, said of Lana; she said, “You have the healthiest maternal tissues of any woman of any age I’ve ever worked with.” This is to a 42-year-old woman. Which is pretty amazing, because she’s delivered babies from 24-year-olds quite frequently.
So, to be able to have that healthy of a pregnancy blew our midwife away and she convinced us to write the book about all the things we had done to give our kids every advantage that was already theirs. We just wanted to maximize the chances of what was already them, just giving them the opportunity to express it.

The results have been really profound and there’s lots of women now who visit my wife for her coaching practice over Skype. She helps women with fertility and with pregnancy know what to eat and know what to do and look at their progesterone and estrogen levels and things like that.

And I wrote this book because my goal is for there to be 10,000 less children with autism as a result of the program in the book. And I wrote it before The Bulletproof Executive, which is the book I’ve been itching to write. But I wrote this because, honestly, you have the most leverage. The younger you are when you start biohacking or optimizing systems and looking at how the environment affects you, the more leverage you have. So, preventing problems in the womb has the highest leverage. Trying to take a 90-year-old person and make them young again is a lot more work, a lot more pain, a lot more money, and a lot harder to do than taking a baby and just helping them form properly in the first place. That’s why I put so much energy and about four years into writing this book.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, fantastic. We saw the little video, I can’t remember, you were talking on a microphone and you mentioned the book and it’s just fascinating stuff. And one thing that intrigued me as well is what you feed your kids as well. Because I think so many parents struggle with that. And what we see, isn’t it, Stu, you know obviously you see it a lot more as well with. . . It’s amazing.

Dave Asprey: It depends when you start. So, my wife, I mentioned she’s Swedish, so sardines are a treat or chicken liver. So, when you eat things; at least when the mother eats things, the baby gets a taste for them later in life. And when you feed them to children when they’re very young, they get used to it.

So, my kids, they eat meat, they eat lamb, and they eat beef, and they love avocados. And vegetables are something you eat raw or cooked; it doesn’t really matter. I don’t get away with cutting any vegetable we eat without them walking into the kitchen and saying, “Can I have some of that?”

So, cauliflower’s good, broccoli’s good, all of that, because it’s just food. There’s no discussion about it.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, right.

Dave Asprey: And if they say, “I don’t like that,” at the table, then: “OK, that’s fine. But it’s what we’re having for dinner. You don’t have to eat it.” “I want something else!” “Well, actually, that’s not what we’re having for dinner.”

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, that’s how it is.

Dave Asprey: They’ve never left the table; they’ve never left the table hungry. They think about it, they decide what to do, and there was one time, my 3-year-old, he’s a boy, so he’s a bit more strong-willed. And he said, you know, like, “OK, fine. I’m going.” And an hour later: “I’m hungry!” “You’re gonna be hungry till morning.” That was the last time he ever did that.
So, honestly, your kids, if they eat normal foods; normal on a Western diet, they’re starving inside. Literally, they have food cravings all the time caused by the foods they’re eating. So, they have a desperate need to eat. And of course they want to eat things that are gonna give them the most glucose and the most fat, because that’s what the liver uses to remove toxins from the body. You want to oxidize something, you need the fuel, and those are the two fuel sources. Protein’s crappy fuel. It makes more toxins in the liver than it takes out.

So, when you get to that perspective and you realize how hungry your kids are like that, number one, give them fat. They’ll calm down and stop misbehaving so much. Butter? Yes. MCT oil? Absolutely, my kids get MCT oil. And they go to school and all their friends are eating snacks and my kids are like, “I guess we’ll have a snack.” But they don’t snack at home. They don’t need snacks. And that’s amazing.

But when they’re properly fed, they behave really well and they focus and when you’re a parent, it doesn’t matter if your kids misbehave a little while. If you’re on path to making them have the biochemistry so they can focus and behave, then deal with it. When they say, “I don’t like it,” say, “Great! We’ll take it away and you’ll be hungry.” They’ll learn to like it pretty fast.

Stuart Cooke: Absolutely. We’re on a campaign to completely eradicate wheat. It’s time. It has to happen. I watched a podcast of yours a few weeks ago with the chap who wrote Wheat Belly and it was just. . .

Dave Asprey: Dr. Davis! He’s a great guy.

Stuart Cooke: Fascinating.

Dave Asprey: Yeah, and look at his credentials. I mean, Track Your Plaque. That guy’s a leading cardiologist. He’s not messing around in that book. And he’s right. It’s not just about getting fat or getting autoimmunity. It’s about your brain. Wheat makes you stupid.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah. And it’s a tricky one, so we’re gonna be tackling that over the course of the next month or so. But when we’ve nailed that one, and we’re not too far away, I think we’ll be well on the way to good times.

Dave Asprey: It helps. Just watch out. It’s not something to take out gradually. It’s crack. It’s an opiate substance, the way it’s digested. So, it turns into something called a gluteomorphin and when you have wheat one day, even just one bite, “Oh, it’s Saturday. We’ll celebrate. We’re just gonna have a little pizza. Just one slice.” Right? The next day, the little Labrador in your head’s gonna say, “You know what? I’m starving because I need more wheat and I’m addicted to the stuff. I think it would be a good idea to have just one more piece.”

And you’ll convince yourself, because of that input, that it’s time to have just one more piece, and you’ll be just like someone who’s shooting heroin in their arm. “Oh, yeah, I’m giving it up this time. I’m sure I’m done.” And then later they end up with this. It’s because of that same process. So, go cold turkey, take lots of L-glutamine; the amino acid. That’ll help you to deal with the food cravings you’re gonna get for three days. And then you’re done detoxing and then wheat is not food after that anymore.

Stuart Cooke: Perfect tip. Fantastic.

Guy Lawrence: How are we doing for time?

Stuart Cooke: We’re absolutely mindful of your time, so I guess, Guy, if you’ve got. . .

Guy Lawrence: We’ll do a wrap-up question; a question we’re gonna ask on every podcast: If you could offer a single piece of advice for optimum health wellness, what would that be? For everyone listening to this.

Dave Asprey: Learn forgiveness.

Guy Lawrence: Learn forgiveness.

Dave Asprey: Yep. It is a very difficult skill to master. It’s easy to say, “I forgive you.” It’s very hard to actually do the biological activity of forgiveness and to neurologically forgive someone and to really let go. But when you learn to do that, and you practice it, which is how you learn or, better yet, if you do some neurofeedback that teaches you forgiveness, but this kind of thing lets you stop carrying a stress burden for all sorts of stuff that you don’t even know you’re carrying.

So, if you had an invisible backpack full of stones on, you would never know you had it, because it’s invisible to you. And the grudges you hold and the ill will towards others that you hold; it holds you back. It keeps you from performing at the level you can be. And it takes quality of life away from you, but it’s invisible.
So, when you learn how to do this, suddenly you’re, like, “Oh, my God. I’m not carrying whatever that heavy thing was anymore.” And certainly I’ve spent an enormous amount of time working on that myself. And one of the reasons, you were asking: How can I perform like this and still see my kids and do the things I do? It’s because I’ve done a lot of forgiveness work.

So, Bulletproof Diet, yes, Bulletproof coffee, lifesaving, lifechanging, all those things. But at the end of the day, before any of that, practice forgiveness.

Stuart Cooke: That’s perfect.

Guy Lawrence: Perfect answer, mate.

Stuart Cooke: So, Guy, you need to forgive me as I steal half of your MCT oil tomorrow for our experiment.

Dave Asprey: There’s a way to make this forgiveness easier. When he’s not looking, put four times extra in his coffee and see what happens.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Exactly.

Dave, thanks so much for your time. If anyone wants to learn more about what you do, where’s the best place for them to go, mate?

Dave Asprey: Check out BulletproofExec.com. All the info on the site’s free. It’s there. A quarter-million words. It’s there as a public service. You know, I’m grateful for all the cool stuff that’s happened in my life and I’d like to help other people do it, too.

Also, I’m hoping to make a trip out to Australia sometime in the next six months or so, so when I know that’s coming together I’ll let you guys know.

Guy Lawrence: Please do. Please do. Fantastic.

Thanks for your time.

Dave Asprey: Have a great day.

Stuart Cooke: Thank you, Dave. Speak to you soon.

 

Lyn Mclean: Is mobile phone radiation dangerous?



2 Minute Taster Above – Full Interview Below

Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

This was actually a tough episode for me as I’m so reliant on technology. I’m quickly learning the very real concerns and problems that surround us daily which are completely invisible; electromagnetic fields/radiation. Like anything though I find the ostrich head burying approach doesn’t work so well in the long term as someone will come along and kick you up the butt! Investigation and preventative measures are needed.


If you want to jump straight to where we talk about mobile phone radiation and if it’s safe, skip to [010:40]

Ever wondered if using a mobile phone is doing the grey matter between our ears any favours?  What about that fancy bluetooth headset you own or the baby monitor that’s in the cot?

These are just some of the topics we cover in this eye-opening interview with EMR Australia expert Lyn Mclean, and more importantly, the steps we can take to counteract the very real problems with electromagnetic fields and radiation (EMR & EMF). After running this interview, I don’t think I’ll ever look at a mobile phone the same way again! Guy…

If you would like to learn more about EMR Australia, click here.

Further reading: The Force & Wireless-wise kids.

downloaditunesIn this weeks episode:-

  • What is EMF & EMR (electromagnetic field/radiation)
  • Is mobile phone radiation dangerous? [010:40]
  • What are the effects of using mobile phones in the car?
  • Laptops, iPads & wi-fi safety
  • Everything from microwave ovens to baby monitors
  • The preventive steps we can take to EMF/EMR exposure
  • and much more…

You can view all Health Session episodes here.

EMR Australia Transcript

McLean: So, the readings at your place were quite good, Guy, Stuart said.

Guy Lawrence: My readings were fantastic. I did all my sleeping area, the work area, and it was like 1. There was nothing higher than 1 in my house, was there?

Stuart Cooke: No. There was nothing higher than 1.9.

Guy Lawrence: There you go. Hence why I sleep so well at night.

Lyn McLean: Excellent.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, right. Very good.

Right, so I’ve got the book and. . .

Stuart Cooke: Let’s roll with it.

Guy Lawrence: I’ll do it, as always. This is Guy Lawrence and today I’m joined with no other than Mr. Stuart Cooke again. Stu, how are you doing? Good to see you. I wore gray today, by the way, so we’re not matching, which is. . .

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, very well, Guy. Probably your blue one is in the wash, no doubt.

Guy Lawrence: My only one. And we’re joined with Lyn McLean from EMR Australia. Lyn, welcome. Thanks for joining us.

Lyn McLean: Thank you. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Guy Lawrence: No worries. Basically, me and Stu ended up having the same colour T-shirt on for the last three recordings, so I’ve gone gray today and it’s worked, which is good.

Just to start, Lyn, for anyone that’s listening to this, can you just tell us a little bit about what you do, who you are and what EMR Australia is as well?

mobile phone radiationLyn McLean: Yes, look, I’ve been involved in EMR now for 17 years. I originally ran the EMR Association of Australia, so that’s how I got involved and was involved, I suppose, or caught up in this issue because I am fascinated by it, but also because there are so many people out there that are having problems with EMR. And it was a very satisfying experience to be able to help them. So, nine years ago, I set up EMR Australia in order that I could continue to do this sort of work in a supported way.

I’ve written three books on electromagnetic radiation and I am a community representative. I have been a community representative on a number of committees; one that developed a code for mobile phone towers and another one to a Department of Health and Australia’s Radiation Authority.

So, I try to represent the community and to keep tabs, I suppose, on what’s going on in the community and to be able to convey that information and hopefully lobby on behalf of people who need help.
Guy Lawrence: OK. All right.

It’s a very real thing. I mean, me and Stu have been quickly learning over the last few weeks, especially when you came and tested our units as well. A lot of people out there are not even aware of what this is. Could you just maybe just explain a little bit about that as well; what we’re actually talking about and dealing with here?

Lyn McLean: Yes, certainly. I think you’re quite right. People don’t know that this is a problem because they can’t see it. But, in fact, we’re surrounded by electromagnetic radiation at home and work.

And there are different kinds of fields. One is the fields from anything electrical, so those are the low-frequency electromagnetic field so they come from things like high-voltage power lines, ordinary power lines, wiring, transformers, conductive pipes. But also any electrical equipment. So, if you’re at work, any equipment that you work on will have an electromagnetic field or any household appliances will have electromagnetic fields.

Now, in some cases, they’re not a worry because the fields are too low to cause people problems. But in some cases, they can be quite high and then we get people who are actually getting sick, and sometimes by reducing those fields, people get better. And often we’re reducing those fields and people get better or feel better.

So, those are the electromagnetic fields. On top of that, we have wireless radiation, which has really just proliferated in the last few years. So, now I’m talking about things like mobile phone towers, TV transmitters, of course, and radio transmitters. But, more commonly, things like mobile phones, cordless phones, wireless modems, even baby monitors and microwave ovens have got this wireless radiation.
So, it’s all around us, and, again, people are getting sick from too much exposure and then when that exposure is reduced they feel better. So, what we try to do is help people, first of all, understand what their exposure is and they need to do what’s necessary and what’s easy, in fact, to reduce it.

Stuart Cooke: Very interesting.

Guy Lawrence: When you say people are getting sick from it, what would some of the symptoms be, because, I mean, we were just discussing it the other week because, you know, I just assumed EMF and EMR were the same things. Also, you know, Stu spoke about his sleep and just by shifting the bed he could sleep. So, that was a symptom and then it’s helped him greatly, I know.
So, when you say, “sickness,” what can some of the symptoms be from that?

Lyn McLean: Yeah, well, the serious problems are things like brain tumors and that’s where a lot of the research has been and there’s a whole science about brain tumors that we can go into. So, that’s one problem.
But other things are things like fertility, because there’s now quite a lot of evidence that shows that mobile phone radiation is affecting the behavior of sperm. And it’s affecting the behavior in ways that’s consistent with infertility. So, it’s quite likely that it’s contributing to infertility in males, particular.

Now, as well as that, there are a whole lot of things that a lot of people wouldn’t call “health problems,” but they’re things that you just feel terrible. If you’ve actually got things like headaches. And I’m talking about not just a little bit of headache but unusual headaches; really intense pressure or people will describe them as weird sort of headaches. Things like depression. Things like sleep problems that we mentioned.

Skin problems is a big one. A lot of computer users have had skin problems. Pain, in some cases. Nausea or gastrointestinal problems. Fatigue is another one. And heart palpitations. They’re actually quite a lot of symptoms and they seem to be symptoms of the nervous system. So, those. . .

Guy Lawrence: What should we do if we’re worried about how much EMR we’re being exposed to at home or perhaps, you know, we have these symptoms, and, you know, we’re slowly joining the dots and thinking, well, you know, perhaps I should do something about this?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. The very first thing I suggest to people is to actually measure, because we’ve found is a lot of people ring up and say: I think I’ve got EMR from, let’s say, it’s the power line out front or it’s the transformer. And then often when you go and measure you see, yes, there is a little bit from that, but the biggest problems is something completely different that they didn’t see or didn’t think about.
So, the very first thing is to measure. And what that does is it actually shows up exactly what you’re exposed to. And I think that’s absolutely critical, because otherwise it’s a bit like going to the doctor and saying, “Look, doctor, I feel sick,” and expecting him to give you a pill that’s going to fix everything. Well, he’s not going to do that because he’s going to want to know what’s causing your sickness so he can give you the right pill. So, in the same way, we want to know what’s causing the fields or the exposure and therefore what’s the appropriate thing to put in place to deal with that.
So, we go out and measure or we hire meters to people and that’s one of them. I don’t know; can you see that one there?
Guy Lawrence: Yep, I can see that.

Lyn McLean: And I know that you had that at both your places. And what that will do; it will measure the fields for anything electrical. So, you can see exactly what you’ve go and that’s gonna help you make a decision about whether it’s too much or it’s OK.

But also you can see where it’s coming from. So, is it coming from the power lines out in the front, in which case, you know, there are some decisions you might make, or is it coming from the water pipe, in which case you’d do something completely different. Or is it coming from some appliance, in which case you could just move it further away from you. It’s trying to reduce your exposure.
So, what you put in place will depend on what you’re actually exposed to.

Guy Lawrence: Got it. Absolutely.

Stuart Cooke: So, when thinking about moving from, kind of, EMF now to more RF and radiation, your thoughts on mobile phones? You know, everyone now is; most people have a mobile phone and they’re certainly not going away. What are your thoughts? Are they safe?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. . .

Sorry; Guy?

Guy Lawrence: I was still; my head’s still thinking about the mobile phone comment you made five minutes ago and I’m just sort of like sitting here. But, sorry, carry on.

Lyn McLean: Are the safe? Well, no one can say that mobile phones are safe. Not our government, not our mobile phone manufacturers. Nobody can say they’re safe. And the reason for that is that there’s actually quite a lot of evidence that they’re not.

Now, I talked about the sperm studies a little while ago and I mentioned the brain tumor studies. But there are number of big research projects around the world that have actually found increased risks. So, I mentioned a name. There was one called the Interphone Study, and that had 13 countries from around the world take part in it and Australia was one of those countries.

And what it found was that for the people who used mobile phones the most, there was an increased risk of glioma brain tumors. Now, if you juggle the results around a little bit; juggle the statistics as the researchers did, they found that there was, for people who were the long-term mobile phone users, there was actually double the risk of gliomas. So, that is a bit of a concern.

And there’s another whole group of studies from Sweden, and what they’re finding is a similar sort of thing: that for long-term users, so I’m really now talking about people who use a mobile phone or a cordless phone for 10 years or more, that they have double the risk of gliomas and acoustic neuromas.

So, that’s a little bit scary, isn’t it? Because keep in mind that a lot of this research was done years ago when people didn’t use mobile phones as much as they do now.
Stuart Cooke: Sure.

Guy Lawrence: Everyone’s got one. I mean, I’m instantly thinking about my phone in my front pocket, like a couple of inches away from my crown jewels, basically. And that’s not; that can’t be a good thing, I’m guessing, then, because. . .

Lyn McLean: Yeah. Well, that’s right. And if you carry your phone on your body, then that radiation is going into your body as you’re carrying it, if it’s turned on.

Guy Lawrence: Because a lot of females will carry it, obviously, in a handbag and things like that and it’s keeping them slightly away from the body. But us guys, I mean. . .

Lyn McLean: Yeah, well, that’s right. But what we have is; and I’ll come back to that in a sec, Guy. But what we have is a lot of women carrying their mobile phones in their bras now, or in a breast pocket, and that’s a real concern because there’s a study in America that’s actually looked at a number of women who carried their mobile phones in their bras and they developed breast tumors. But these tumors are located in the exact position of the areas of their phones. And I’m talking about women in their early ’20s who have had mastectomies. And they didn’t have a genetic background that would predispose them to this. So, you have to ask: Is it the mobile phone?

We even have guys who are developing breast cancer where they carry their mobile phone in their breast pocket. So, yeah, I think it is a big problem. And one of the messages from this is: Keep your mobile phone away from your body. Now, if you have to carry it next to your body, we have a little sock; a radiation sock you can put your phone into and that will stop the signal going through into your body.

Guy Lawrence: So, do you use a mobile phone yourself, Lyn?

Lyn McLean: No. I don’t have one.

Guy Lawrence: Because, you know, it’s a part of my daily life; Stu’s. I’m mean, we run an Internet business and I’m on the phone all the time. I mean, what precautions can we take? You mentioned the sock. Would, like, wearing these headphones and then talking through a mobile phone help?

Lyn McLean: Well, the key thing is to keep the mobile phone away from you when it’s turned on. So, if you’re using it, don’t hold it right up against your head because that’s when radiation is being absorbed into your head. So, even if you hold it out a little bit, or you put one of those socks that I was mentioning. . .

Guy Lawrence: So, I could put it on Speaker and then maybe hold it hear and listen? That’s a lot better?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. Absolutely. Talk on; or, put your mobile phone down on the table and speak so you’re not holding it in your hand. Just anything that you can do to minimize your exposure. So, for example, using a corded landline phone if you can. You know, if you’re making those calls from home, then use that. Spending less time on your mobile phone, ringing people on their home phone or their work phone as opposed to their mobile phone. There are lots of things you can do to reduce that exposure.

Stuart Cooke: What about using a mobile phone in a car. Now, most new cars are equipped with hands-free Bluetooth devices. And, of course, most people yabber away when they’re driving. And it passed the time, for one. What are your thoughts on that?

Lyn McLean: Well, a couple of things are problem with that. One is that there is research now that people who talk on a mobile phone when they’re driving drive just as well as somebody who’s been drink-driving. And that’s not from holding the phone against their head; it’s just from talking on the phone. So, in other words, having the mobile phone and even using speaker function, can still affect people’s driving performance. And, obviously, it makes them worse drivers and increases the risk of accidents. So, that’s one thing.

But in terms of what you’re actually exposing yourself to, people are being exposed to radiation when the phone is operating in the car for a number of reasons. If you’ve got Bluetooth, then Bluetooth is a form of wireless radiation. So, you’re actually exposed to the radiation from that system. And we certainly get people who report that they can’t tolerate to be in cars that have got Bluetooth in them and have to get those systems disabled.

The other thing is, even if you didn’t have Bluetooth in the car and you just have your mobile phone turned on in the car, what the car is; you think of as a metal shell. That’s going to be reflecting that signal, amplifying that signal, passing it all around the car. And that means everybody there is getting exposed.

Now, again, we have people who, if somebody has a mobile phone even turned on in the car. . . So, I’m not talking about making a phone call, now, but just the phone is turned on. They get sick. And I talked to a woman a week or so ago who said her children got into the car and forgot to turn their mobile phones off and she said that was just the end of her. She spent a week in bed as a result of just that one exposure.

Stuart Cooke: Wow.
Guy Lawrence: I mean, is it; are there any preventative measures we can do whilst in the car to be able to use the phone in the car?

Stuart Cooke: Turn your phone off, by the sounds of it.

Guy Lawrence: But, again, it’s something that I certainly do and a lot of people do. Would opening the windows help or anything like that, or is it just something: avoid; don’t do.

Lyn McLean: Yeah, there’s a lot of advice about not using mobile phones in metal shells and things like lifts and cars. So, really, anything you can do to reduce that exposure is a good thing.

Stuart Cooke: What about external aerials, Lyn, for your car? I mean, it’s almost taking us back a few years when mobiles were just; were the next big thing. Lots of cars had external aerials and you used to plug your phone into that. Would that make a difference?

Lyn McLean: Yeah, that’s a good thing to use. But you want to make sure your aerial is not in the position where your children sit or your baby sits.

Stuart Cooke: Right. OK.

Guy Lawrence: You mentioned Bluetooth. Bluetooth headsets. And, I’m assuming, that can’t be good.

Lyn McLean: Well, that’s right. That’s just replacing one form of wireless radiation with another form of wireless radiation, so it’s a; why use that system? There are better systems that you can use. For example, there are headsets, airtube headsets, that don’t have that wireless radiation.

Guy Lawrence: That’s staggering. I’m glad I ride a motorbike a lot. So I don’t have to deal with any of that. But I still keep my phone in my pocket when I’m riding.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, just slip your mobile in your helmet when you ride and I think you’ll be fine.

Guy Lawrence: Some of the helmets, now, well they have Bluetooth in there so you connect your phone and chat away while you’re riding a motorbike.

Stuart Cooke: Well, we know what to get you for Christmas.

Lyn McLean: If he comes to work with a headache, you’ll know why, Stuart.
Stuart Cooke: Well, when he comes to work, I get the headache!

Guy Lawrence: All right. Well, what we said about mobile phones, then, the first thing I think: What about kids? Every kid has mobile phone now. Smartphones, playing games, iPads. What are your thoughts on it? I mean, if it’s that?

Lyn McLean: Well, this is a real concern and there are lots of authorities around the world now who are saying: Reduce kids’ exposure to this radiation. And the advice was, from most of the authorities a few years back, was don’t let children under 16 use a mobile phone. Well, you know, I think that would be really hard to implement now, especially since schools are using them. But that was the advice based on the fact that there a risk for kids.

And there are reasons why kids are more vulnerable, and one is that their skulls are actually thinner. So that means that the radiation is being absorbed into their skull further. So, more of their brain is being affected than adults’ brains. So, remember the studies that have been done that I talked about earlier that were done on adults, and they found increased rates of brain tumors. Now we’re talking about kids who don’t have the protection in their skulls, who are absorbing more radiation, and using them at a younger age. So, what is going to happen to them in 10 years’ time? We don’t know, but in 10 years’ time we’re going to find out. And if; I think all of the people aren’t going to like the answers.

Kids have got a potential lifetime of exposure to us, so, unless us, who were probably mature when we started to use mobile phones, these kids might be using them for not 20, 30, or 40 but maybe 50, 60, 70 years. Now, if there’s a long-term effect of exposure, which the studies are indicating, then what’s going to happen to them in that amount of time?

In fact, people who have been using their phones for 20, 30 years would now be 70 or 80 at that time and it maybe doesn’t matter. But it does if you’re going to only be 40 in 30 years’ time.

Stuart Cooke: Crikey. So, I’m guessing, you know, for all the parents out there that pass on the iPhone for their kids to play the games, Flight Mode, I guess, if you’ve got a smartphone. That would be a precaution. How safe is the phone in Flight Mode? Are we good to go and can happily play with it?

Lyn McLean: In some cases, that’s enough, but in some cases you actually have to turn the wireless because there still can be a signal in Flight Mode. So, yeah, use Flight Mode but turn the wireless off.

But the thing that I’m concerned about is the whole idea of giving kids mobile phones as toys. You’re setting up the expectation in kids that this is something that’s OK to play with.

What I’m saying is that mobile phones; children shouldn’t be using mobile phones, or exposed to mobile phone radiation, unnecessarily. So, if you’re going to see this device as something it’s OK to play with, and Mummy and Daddy says it’s OK for me to play with it, then that’s going to set up that expectation that they can spend a lot of time on it, playing games, as they get older.

Now, that means that, of course, they’re being exposed to more radiation as they do. But it’s also setting up patterns of addiction and you don’t have to look very hard on the Internet to see that there are real problems with young people being addicted to this sort of technology. And there are clinics overseas that are treating people as young as 4 with Internet addiction.
Stuart Cooke: It’s interesting. And, I guess, not to mention, as well, the use of mobile phones affects the way that we communicate and are able to kind of integrate ourselves into communities and conversations, because we’re using to doing it all on the little device.

Guy Lawrence: This just seems such a serious matter, and yet, you know, the media doesn’t seem to cover it much. You hear random studies, but it’s almost made out as if it’s just pulling things out of the sky as if it’s not real, it’s not happening, it’s not there. And it gets swept under the carpet very quickly, really.

Lyn McLean: Well, that’s right. And one of the reasons for that is that the mobile phone industry advertises in the media so much, so for the media to take up this story might threaten a lucrative source of income.

So, in the end, I think it does get back to money. Because look who’s profiting from this. You’ve got the mobile phone companies. The government’s making a fortune from the sale of mobile phones. The media is making a lot of money from promoting this sort of technology. So, there’s a lot of information going out about, “Use me, use me, use me, use me.” And people aren’t necessarily having the balance of information about, well, yes, there is actually a risk. And, as I said, a lot of authorities are warning to be really careful with this technology, especially if they’re kids.

Stuart Cooke: Absolutely. And I guess, even with the manuals that you receive when you buy the mobile phone now, if you actually read the fine print, you will be told to hold the phone away from your ear so that they’re covering themselves, but who does that? We certainly don’t do that.

Lyn McLean: That’s right. That’s right. And because the mobile phones are getting smaller and thinner, the aerials are getting closer to people’s brains, too. So, it’s alarming for me.

Just going back to the question of kids, one of my concerns is that kids don’t have the information to make informed choices. So, I can monitor the Internet or we can find out information about the safety of this technology, but what 3- or 4-year-old or 10- or 12-year-old is going to do that and make a decision about should they be using it and how should they be using it.

For example, I have one Year 11 girl that I know who carries her phone in her bra, as we talked about before, and who didn’t know anything about the risks of that.

Stuart Cooke: No, it’s interesting. Thinking along those lines, you know, the parents the children, well, safety in the kitchen: “Don’t touch the oven; it’s hot. Don’t touch the knifes; they’re sharp.” But, of course, we have these external factors that are potentially much more damaging but we haven’t got any kind of guidelines there as to how to use them safely.

Lyn McLean: Well, that’s right. And that’s where it comes back again, to measuring. Because this is another of the measures that we have. You can see that there.

Stuart Cooke: That’s better; yeah.

A wall is made. So, you can actually hold that near a phone and it will pick up the signal and it will show you how strong the signal is and how far it extends. And I measured the phone that a young boy, he was in Year 7 so he’d be about 12, his phone, the other day, and, boy, it was really; you know, it was unbelievable.

Stuart Cooke: Off the scale.

Lyn McLean: Yeah. That’s right. And you have to be concerned about kids’ holding that. . .
Guy Lawrence: I think the problem is, well, this information is overwhelming. I mean, just sitting here talking to you and listening to the problems with it. You start to think and then you start to think, like you mentioned baby monitors, you mentioned kids; people using the mobile phone. I mean, we have a hard enough time dealing with the food industry and the way that’s going and actually trying to say our piece about it. And, you know, it’s another thing to think about.

Stuart Cooke: What about cordless home phones, then? What are your thoughts on that? I know they’re a convenient product where we can wander around and gasbag any room in the house.

Lyn McLean: That’s right. Well, the bad news is, cordless phones might be even worse than mobile phones. So much of the research that we’ve talked about so far has been done on mobile phones, but the same thing applies, then, more to cordless phones for these reasons. The cordless phone has actually got two elements. There’s the handset and there’s the base. Now, that base, in many cases, is transmitting 24-7. So, people don’t even know that as it’s sitting there beside their bed or on their desk or wherever it might be, it’s still sending out quite a high signal.

So, that’s just the base. In addition to that, they’ve got the handset. So, when you hold the handset of the cordless phone against your head, your brain is absorbing radiation in just the same way that it would be from a mobile phone, but maybe even more because a lot of cordless phones don’t have adaptive power control. So, they don’t power down the signal. In other words, it’s fairly high-power.

Now, we know that a cordless phone is going to be reasonably high-power because it’s going to transmit a signal from over here to right over there, where the base is, on the other side of the house. So, in fact, you’re getting this exposure from both sections and people, in addition, tend to use their home phone more than they do their mobile phone. So, a lot of people have gotten the message that mobiles are a bit dangerous and they’re dealing with that by going home and using their home phone, not realizing that it’s actually radiating just like their mobile phone is. And that they’re being exposed if they do that.

And, in addition to that, if that’s your home phone, then what about when your kids start making phone calls? They’re using a radiating device as a past.

Guy Lawrence: So, can we use corded phones; phones with a cord? Yeah, a corded phone has none of that problem, so it’s a much safer option.
Stuart Cooke: OK, so that was the alternative then. Because, obviously, everyone uses a phone.

Lyn McLean: That’s right. That’s the best thing. And with cordless phones you can be aware of the fact that this thing is giving out radiation, probably 24-7, and where you locate it, because I had a situation once where I went into a home and I measured the radiation coming from a cordless phone, and it was really high. And it was going right through the wall onto the bed, into the bedroom of a young girl; the daughter of the house. So, the mum hadn’t realized that it was actually radiating here as she slept, because it seemed that it was in a different room. But that happens.

Stuart Cooke: I can’t even imagine the strength of these, because we’re corded now. And prior to that, we had a cordless phone. And I remember walking down the street with it trying to test the range, and, you know, I got halfway down the road and still had a strong signal on this phone pressed to my head and thought it was the best thing in the world.

Lyn McLean: Yes. That’s right.

Stuart Cooke: But of course, perhaps, it wasn’t so grateful, but we’ve since learned otherwise and now gone to a corded and feel much happier about that as well.

Lyn McLean: Good on you. Well, I think people have to remember that the word “coverage” and the word “signal strength” really actually meant radiation. So, if the manufacturer is promoting “great coverage” or its fantastic signal strength or whatever it is, then you can interpret that as, oh, well, I’m going to get quite exposed from this technology.

Stuart Cooke: Exactly.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Cooke: Just going slightly off topic, Lyn, you mentioned the bedroom. I guess the best bet is just to turn everything off, I’m guessing.

Lyn McLean: Yeah. Yeah. And to keep things away from your bed, because if you’ve got this technology on your bedside table at nighttime as lots of people have, then you’re being exposed to it as sleep, and that’s the very time that you want to be least exposed, because it’s as you sleep that you’re bodies. . .

Stuart Cooke: Because I know a lot of mates that will use mobile phone for their alarm clock as well.

Lyn McLean: Yes, yes.

Stuart Cooke: I mean, I still do that but I put it on Airplane Mode, so I’m assuming it’s not searching; not that it’s next to my head or anything. But still. I’m assuming that would be another preventative measure you could take?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. That’s a much better option, and for kids, the advice is to keep the mobile phone out of the bedroom, because we get a lot of situations where children are sleeping with their mobile phone under their pillow, even, so that they can hear the call as it comes in at nighttime or feel the call, and they can respond to it.

So, apart from the fact that they’re irradiating themselves, they’re actually losing sleep and that’s affecting their school performance, and there’s quite a bit now about that side of the problem, too, that it’s affecting kids’ schoolwork.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Lots to learn, I think.

So, moving from mobile phones and over onto wifi, now, what are your thoughts on wifi; home wifi networks, which, of course, make it easy and convenient for us to access the Internet with our iPads and laptops everywhere over, you know, in the house. How does that compare to, perhaps, the signals coming into a mobile phone and what should we do about wifi?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. A wifi modem has actually got quite a strong signal. So, if you have your modem next to, say it’s on your desk as you work at your computer, you’re being exposed to a very high signal as you sit there and work. If you’ve got your wifi modem near a bed, maybe on the other side of the wall from them bed, the same thing applies. So, that’s one way that you’re being exposed from the modem.

But then you’re being exposed from the technology that you use as well. So, whether it’s your laptop computer or your iPad that you mentioned, or some other device, that’s actually sending out a microwave signal as well. So, you’re getting a double whammy.

Now, you can measure quite high exposures in a house from this technology. And, in fact, people have got so much technology that you’d be surprised how high the signals can actually be. So, that’s inevitable when you use those systems.

Now, if you want to prevent that, there are a number of things that you can do, and you can go to various extremes depending on how precautionary you want to be. First of all, you can use corded connections. And if you use cords and wires, you’ve got none of that wireless; providing you turn the wireless off, of course. You’re still getting the benefits of the technology. You can still download stuff. You can still play games. But you’re doing it in a much safer way.

Now, if people don’t want to do that, they don’t want to go that far, anything you can do to minimize wireless exposure is really important. So, for example, turning the wifi off when you’re not using it. Maybe downloading, for people who like to watch movies or play games or something like that on the technology, downloading it first and then turning the wireless off as you’re actually using the game or watching the movie.
So, a lot of it comes back to common sense. Just realize that if you’re sitting in front of this thing, and it’s a wifi device that’s using the wifi modem, then you’re being exposed and so are the other people.

Guy Lawrence: So, I’m just thinking, because, I’m in my unit, right? And now I’ve moved my wifi after talking to you a few weeks ago, because that was about a foot from my leg when I was working in the day, and I’ve moved it to the other side of the unit, out of the way. But obviously the wifi is still on during the day. I turn it off at night, or when I go out, I just turn the wifi off; it’s not there. But am I actually moving around in a microwave oven because the wifi is on, or is it not so; does it affect is that much? Even though the router is 10 meters from me?

Because I’ll turn my mobile phone on when I’m in Coogee or in the street and it picks up 20 networks of wifi that are buzzing around. So, obviously, if the phone’s picking up I’m being exposed to it.

Stuart Cooke: You have to create a hat, Guy, out of tinfoil, like a Viking’s hat but tinfoil. And I’ve read that they’re quite effective.

Guy Lawrence: That could work, yeah.

Lyn McLean: Yeah, seriously, I do have people contacting me who have had to go to those extremes like shielding themselves or their homes to stop those signals coming in because they’re so badly affected by it. So, it is a concern.

In terms of the router, the further away from you it is, the less you’re exposed to it. But the fact is that you’re still getting some. And the problem is, well, how much is OK? And that’s the difficulty because we don’t really. . .

Guy Lawrence: We can’t really measure that, can we?

Lyn McLean: We can measure it, yes.

Guy Lawrence: But how much, the limit; how much is OK? How much is not?

Lyn McLean: That’s right. Well, you know, you’d like to think, well, it complies with the standard. That should be OK. But the standard’s actually not protecting people from this sort of use. It’s only protecting against short-term acute heating effects. So, it’s not protecting against long-term, continuous, non-heating effects, which is what we’re talking about. So, for people who are using this technology hours a day, every day, all their lifetime, essentially, it’s not protecting against that.

And there’s a survey done recent that’s showing that people are spending up to 16 hours a day now using this technology. So, that’s a lot of exposure. So, it might be lower-power, but you multiple that by time, if that makes sense. So, it’s a cumulative exposure.

Guy Lawrence: You mention shielding, Lyn. What; can you elaborate on that, please?

Lyn McLean: Yeah. For the high-frequency, the wireless technology that we’re talking about now, if people want to block that signal, what they can do is they can put a shielding paint in place. So, we have a shielding paint. You pat it on the wall and it will block the signal that’s coming through from outside. So, you can actually create a little safe haven if you want to do that.

And, often, people do that only when they’re experiencing symptoms like we have on a lot of people from Victoria who had SmartMeters installed and have experienced all sorts of very unpleasant symptoms. And they very often block the signal. They put it on the side of the house where their meter box is and that stops the signal coming through from the SmartMeter.

Guy Lawrence: From your experience, Lyn, just all these questions keep popping in; sorry.

Lyn McLean: Oh, it’s great.

Guy Lawrence: If a person is healthier, can they withstand the exposure more, as if to somebody that might be already ill; say they’re fighting a disease of some kind. They might be chronically sick. And then they’re exposed to this. Do you think they would be more sensitive to the exposure?

Lyn McLean: I am talking about my experience now and talking about the conversations that I’ve had with people who are dealing with the condition of electromagnetic sensitivity; the researchers around the world who have dealt with that. And, yes, that does seem to be the case. And when you look at the research that is being conducted, the mainstream research, it’s showing that there’s a very big difference in how different organisms respond to EMR. And it would depending on the way that the signal is; whether it goes this way or it goes that way. The genetic background of the animals or the cells that are being exposed. The health or condition of those animals.

So, there are a lot of factors that will affect the way that people respond, and that’s why in a family of, say, four or five people, you might get one person who’s affected badly by this technology and nobody else. It’s a very individual response.

Guy Lawrence: So, what about the wifi in schools? Because I know that gets installed now. I mean, it’s another problem outside of mobile phones. I guess the question has already been answered.

Stuart Cooke: Yeah, schools are very proud, aren’t they, to present this. “You know, we’ve installed wifi all over now and all of our children are happily using wireless tablets now to do their sums.” Surely that would be a concern.

Lyn McLean: This is a concern for a number of reasons. Now, you remember I said that there’s a high field that comes from the router. So, let’s think about where this router might be. You know, maybe it’s by the teacher’s desk or maybe it’s by a particular student’s desk. Maybe it’s working at very high power.

I had one teacher who rang up and said that he couldn’t work with this wifi. He couldn’t have it. He couldn’t be in the classroom where it was. And in this school, it was very high-power because it had to get from one classroom through to another classroom through this cement and concrete floor. So, it had to really have a lot of power to be able to do that. In other words, the signal was strong and the amount of radiation that people were being exposed to was high.

So, you have that. But in addition to that, you have all these kids using this technology, where they are exposed to their technology and the person beside them’s technology and around her.

Now, they are really, basically, just sitting in a little microwave oven. It’s a concern, because we’re experimenting on children. And I don’t know, really, that any ethics committee would allow that, you know? An experiment.

But we’ve got young kids now that are in infant school that are being exposed to this technology when we haven’t even demonstrated that it’s safe for adults. Why would we do this to our kids? Why would we take that risk?

As I said, I’ve got; I mentioned that one teacher. There are actually quite a few teachers who’ve contacted me. Some of them had to give up work because they can’t work in a school with wifi in it. We have a principal who’s resigned because she can’t be in the school because of the wifi.

There are schools overseas pulling out their wifi systems because kids become sick.

It’s a very big risk, I think, and my question is: What happens if this exposure affects kids and they become sick down the track? Will we see litigation against the education departments? And I think that’s a real possibility.

Stuart Cooke: Where standards are concerned, Lyn, how does Australia fare to the likes of Europe, say, for instance?

Lyn McLean: Well, there are international standards that the World Health Organization; our body as connected to the World Health Organization has put in place. And a lot of countries around the world use those standards, and Australia’s standards are pretty much in line with those standards, too. So, they’re very consistent with the majority standards.

In Europe, because there’s been so much concern about the risks of this technology, a lot of countries have put in additional layers of precaution. So, they’ve put in either standards or guidelines or something like that that say, well, we don’t really want people to be exposed to it so much.

And I think that that’s a way of helping to address these concerns.

What I think is really important is that people start to apply these precautions in their own homes and in workplaces. That’s a starting point. You can actually do; if we wait for governments to change status we’ll be very long, I think.

Stuart Cooke: We’ll be around forever.

Guy Lawrence: When you talk about precautions, as well, another question I wanted to cover was the mention of there’s a lot of products out there now that are claiming they can harmonize or neutralize the wifi; the mobile phone. I mean. . . What’s your thought on that?

Lyn McLean: This is a concern, because a lot of people will say: Look, I’ve stuck this on my phone or I’ve that on my phone or I’ve stuck it on my wifi so I’m safe. And, in fact, that’s not necessarily the case at all, because if you measure; if you get a device that measures the radiation, and you measure with one of those stickers or whatever it might be, stuck onto the mobile phone, you take it off and you measure again, the amount of radiation is identical. So, these devices are not making any difference whatsoever to the amount of radiation that we are exposed to.

They don’t even claim to do that. They claim to harmonize. Now, what does that actually mean? We don’t know what that means. It doesn’t; there’s no scientific way that can explain what these devices might be doing. If they’re doing anything, it’s in a way that we can neither understand, nor measure. And that means to me that we’re taking a risk by using them.

It’s much better, in my opinion, to use conventional precautions that can be demonstrated to work; that can be measured to work. Because then you know that you actually are protected and you’re not taking that risk.
Guy Lawrence: Because the problem is, as well, obviously, the education’s not here. I mean, from chatting to you we learn it first and we’re starting to be proactive about it. But the reality is, a lot of people are going to take it: “Oh, I’ll buy a new mobile case for it and that reflects the signal or I’ll stick something on the back or wear something around the neck” and just assuming they’re doing the right thing.

Lyn McLean: Exactly. But if they do that and then continue to use the technology and think, “I’m safe. I’m safe, so I can talk on it for a long amount of time,” then they could be at more risk than if they. . . took no precautions.

[phone rings]

Lyn McLean: Excuse me. I forgot to turn that off.

Stuart Cooke: It’s good to hear the call of a landline. The proof was in the pudding.

I’ve got a question, Lyn, and you touched on it a little earlier: baby monitors. Now, should we be wary of these products? After everything that you’ve told us I think, crikey, that would be the last thing that I want to use now. But how about all our friends out there that are actively using them and feeling safe by doing do?

Lyn McLean: Well, “feeling safe”; isn’t that an irony, because these devices are actually giving out high levels of magnetic fields or wireless radiation are measured; in fact, there are several baby monitors in the cot where the baby slept and the fields were so high that when the mother actually saw it, they picked up the device and took it out and threw it in the bin.

Guy Lawrence: Wow.

Lyn McLean: So, we’re putting these things next to babies whose brains are just newly hatched where they haven’t had a chance to develop, where their skulls are thin, where they’re very, very vulnerable. And we’re exposing them to really high fields.

Now, I’ve to go ask whether that’s really protecting them at all. And, again, we’re talking about long-term cumulative effects.

Now, if I could step back a bit from the baby monitors, there are a couple of studies now that have looked at pregnant women using mobile phones and the scientists have found that if you monitor the behavior and the performance of those kids when they’re 7; that is 7 years after that exposure, these kids have got more behavioral problems or performing worse in schools than kids whose mothers didn’t use a mobile phone.

In other words, it can take a long time for effects to show up. So, if we’re exposing these babies, we might have to wait seven years, eight years, but it could be affecting their academic performance down the track.
Guy Lawrence: Yeah. Interesting thought.

Lyn McLean: And, again, we don’t know but it’s question of precaution. How much risk do you want to. . .

Stuart Cooke: I think that’s just it. We just don’t know, do we? A little bit like the cigarette industry in the early days. We didn’t know, you know. Cigarettes were even claimed to have health benefits.

Lyn McLean: Absolutely. That’s right. Yeah. And there’s a story that Sir Richard Doll, who’s the guy who made the connection between smoking and lung cancer, and the Health Department actually told him not to let his results out to the general public because that might cause alarm. That was back in the ’50s.

Stuart Cooke: Wow. I can just picture the packaging, then, in 20 years’ time, on my new mobile phone that I buy. Crikey. With these horrible pictures on the side.

Lyn McLean: Well, yep, we don’t know, do we?

Guy Lawrence: No, we don’t.

Lyn McLean: And I think it all boils down to how much risk do you want to take? Now, this is a question of society and we’re grappling with it every day as parents make choices about what sort of food to feed their children or whether to put a fence around their pool or, you know, to strap their child in a car seat or use seatbelts. All the time, we’re making decisions about precaution and safety, and this is just something else that we need to address. But people have to be aware that it’s critical.

Guy Lawrence: Yeah, absolutely.

Stuart Cooke: Well, I think they do. And I think you can; you don’t have to scared by this. I mean, after speaking to you, as a family, we have made certain changes, and they’re by no means radical. I mean, we tested our apartment. We moved our positioning of beds. We went to corded phone. I use a plug-in, wired Internet now. So, our wifi is gone. And I use my speakers at all times on my mobile phone. And, while carrying it, I bought a little shield. So, if I have to slide it in my pocket, I’ve got this going now. And I feel like I’m doing, you know, to the best of my abilities to try and stay on top of this.

So it’s, you know, by no means kind of radical stuff, but just small changes.

Lyn McLean: Well, that’s quite right and sometimes it’s just a question of moving something from here to there. And I mentioned a story to you before where we had a woman who had depression and sleep apnea and she was on medication for those, and her husband had problems with depression, too. And she heard me speaking about the meter box having high electromagnetic fields, and she decided that she’d do a little experiment. She moved the bed from right beside the meter box up the wall a little bit; just a little bit further away. And she found that her depression cleared up, her sleep apnea cleared up, her husband’s depression cleared up, and they didn’t need medication anymore.

So, it didn’t cost her anything to do that and rang me up after about three weeks because she wanted to make sure that the changes lasted, and they did.

Stuart Cooke: It’s small things, isn’t it?

Lyn McLean: Exactly.

Stuart Cooke: I guess it’s just being aware. I found a high magnetic field on the floor where I previously slept from a light fitting to the foyer of a block of units downstairs. And that was, you know, very high. But a meter to the left or right of that, those levels dropped significantly, and I sleep better now.

Lyn McLean: So, you moved your bed in order to. . .

Stuart Cooke: I just moved my bed. Yep. Moved it to the other side of the wall, and that’s all I did. And it’s made a world of difference. But it’s just knowing.

Guy Lawrence: I’ve got one last question for you, Lyn, before we wrap up. Microwave ovens. Somebody mentioned them on Facebook the other day as well. I haven’t used one since I immigrated, like, seven years ago. But what are your thoughts on them?

Lyn McLean: Well, microwaves are really interesting because they’ve got a number of problems that, first of all, they change the chemical composition of food. But leaving that aside, because that’s not to do with radiation, they have several fields. They have a high magnetic field that’s just because they’re an electrical appliance. So, if you have your microwave oven sitting on the bench and not doing anything, not cooking any food, the chances are it’s giving out a high magnetic field and you can measure that.

But when you put the food in it and you turn it on, it starts to cook, the magnetic field generally goes very. So, in fact, you would want to keep quite a distance away from it when it’s cooking, just to be out of that magnetic field.

In addition to that, it’s also got the microwaves that cook the food. Now, microwave ovens are allowed to legally leak a little bit of microwave radiation, and in some it’s a little bit more than others, depending on how secure the door seals are. So, you can measure the microwave radiation from these as well. Sometimes, as it’s starting to escape, it can be quite high in even the room adjacent to the microwave.

Guy Lawrence: See, you wouldn’t want to be leaning over, staring through the glass to see if your milk’s gonna boil.

Lyn McLean: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you definitely want to keep a distance from them, but I would say check them, too. Measure to see whether you’ve got any microwave leakage or too much microwave leakage.

Stuart Cooke: Crikey.

Guy Lawrence: There you go. I’ve never liked those things anyway. I’m all for that one.

Stuart Cooke: It sounds like you’re living in a microwave oven with a wifi network. I’ll surely not be visiting anytime soon.

Guy Lawrence: It’s just to keep you out, mate.

Stuart Cooke: Well, it’s working.

Guy Lawrence: Lyn, thanks very much for joining us today. It’s been awesome. My God, I’m going to have to take stock of all this information myself.

If anyone wants to learn more, EMR Australia, the website, would be the best place to contact for you?

Lyn McLean: Yep. Certainly.

Guy Lawrence: And then, obviously, you can provide all the necessary information if they’ve got more questions and things like that.

Stuart Cooke: And also, Guy, not to forget the book as well; Lyn’s fantastic book called The Force, which I’ve read and I think I’m gonna read it again. It just really does kind of just enforce all these little pockets of knowledge that I think are so empowering. So, if people wanted to purchase the book, Lyn, whereabouts could they do that?

Lyn McLean: They could do that through our website. Can I just share, also, excuse me as I lean over, that what we do with the kids, because having talking about the risks of this radiation for kids: Wireless-wise Kids, which is actually, and if you can see it there; I think we’re getting a bit of reflection from the blinds, but it’s got beautiful illustrations by an Australian artist, Janet Selby, and it’s quite easy to understand. So, kids can understand, but also the parents get a lot.

Stuart Cooke: I’ve purchased a copy of that as well and we went over that as a family, so we’ll put that information on the website for the viewers, too.

Guy Lawrence: Absolutely. Fantastic.

Thank you for your time, Lyn. That was mind-blowing.

Lyn McLean: Thank you very much. I appreciate you talking to me about this issue. I think it’s a really important one and I’m glad you’ve given us the chance to speak.

Guy Lawrence: We do, too. Thank you again.

Lyn McLean: Thank you. It’s my pleasure. Have a lovely day.

Guy Lawrence: Cheers. Thank you.

Stuart Cooke: Goodbye.

 

Shane Warne hooked on ‘meal replacement shakes’ with more weight loss on the Jo public menu

Too many meal replacement shakes?By Guy Lawrence

Image: Snapper Media

Meal replacement shakes seem to come in waves. Sales die off then a bit of marketing with a celebrity and a new quick fix wave of diet shakes are readily available. The latest being international cricketer Shane Warn hinting a certain diet shake contributed to his 12kg weight loss over the last two months. The headlines read – ‘Shane Warne ‘addicted’ to diet shake, says supplier’

No mention of cleaning up his act and a healthier lifestyle though. More