Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.
Stu: This week, I’m excited to welcome Elise Museles to the podcast. Elise is an attorney turned certified eating psychology and nutrition expert. She’s the creator of the Food Story platform with a mission to empower women to create healthier relationship with their food and their bodies by changing what’s on their plate and what’s in their minds.
Audio Version
Some questions asked during this episode:
- How did you come up with the concept of food Story?
- What is “Food Noise” and why is it so harmful?
- What is “The Chocolate Meditation” and its significance?
Get more of Elise Museles:
- https://elisemuseles.com/
- https://www.facebook.com/elisemuseles
- https://www.instagram.com/elisemuseles/
If you enjoyed this, then we think you’ll enjoy this interview:
- Kate Kordsmeier – Healing Your Body With Real Food
- Jema Lee – Health Advice Every Woman Should Know
- Dr Christiane Northrup – Unlocking the Key To Vibrant Health
The views expressed on this podcast are the personal views of the host and guest speakers and not the views of Bega Cheese Limited or 180 Nutrition Pty Ltd. In addition, the views expressed should not be taken or relied upon as medical advice. Listeners should speak to their doctor to obtain medical advice.
Disclaimer: The transcript below has not been proofread and some words may be mis-transcribed.
Full Transcript
Stu
(00:03)
Hey, this is Stu from 180 nutrition, and welcome to another episode of The Health Sessions. It’s here that we connect with the world’s best experts in health, wellness, and human performance in an attempt to cut through the confusion around what it actually takes to achieve a long lasting health. Now, I’m sure that’s something that we all strive to have. I certainly do.
Before we get into the show today, you might not know that we make products too. That’s right. We are into whole food nutrition, and have a range of super foods and natural supplements to help support your day. If you are curious, want to find out more, just jump over to our website. That is 180nutrition.com.au, and take a look. Okay, back to the show.
This week, I’m excited to welcome Elise to the podcast. Elise is an attorney turned certified eating psychology and nutrition expert. She’s the creator of the Food Story platform with a mission to empower women to create healthier relationship with their food and their bodies by changing what’s on their plate and what’s in their minds. In this episode, we discuss the concept of Food Story. Discover why food noise can throw us off track and uncover the significance of the chocolate meditation. Over to Elise.
Hey, guys, this is Stu from 180 Nutrition and I am delighted to welcome Elise to the podcast. Elise, how are you?
Elise
(01:27)
I am good. Thank you so much for having me on and being open to sharing Food Story with your listeners.
Stu
(01:35)
Look, I cannot wait to dig in to the story and all of your wisdom that you have to share as well this morning. But first up for all of our listeners that may not be familiar with you or your work, I’d love it if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself, please.
Elise
(01:48)
Okay, sure. Well, I always start with that. I grew up in Los Angeles. That kind of says it all, maybe we can finish. But I grew up in LA, always interested in health, wellness, and it bordered on obsession at a younger age. But then I pivoted though. I had a career in law and I was an immigration lawyer before I got into health and wellness. I am a mom; a dog mom, and a boy mom. I am certified in holistic nutrition and eating psychology. And really, the eating psychology is like where I spend most of my time trying to support people, because it is about helping people with their mindset around food.
There’s so much information on what to eat. At first I started with people on what to eat, but I realized really quickly that that’s only half the story with nutrition. Really, how we eat and why we eat, and all those other factors really play a role. So I got certified in eating psychology. This was in 2012. Ever since then, I’ve never looked back. I always say that I help people with what’s on their plate and what’s in their mind.
Stu
(03:08)
Fantastic.
Elise
(03:09)
That’s a snippet.
Stu
(03:13)
Well, I mean, that’s fascinating. I mean, psychology and nutrition, obviously there’s a whole heap of stuff going on in the background when we think about food, when we consume food, when we crave food, all of the above. But you’ve coined the phrase food story. I’m really intrigued in that, and just wondered if you could unpack that a little bit for our listeners. Tell us a little bit more about what that actually means to you.
Elise
(03:39)
Okay, good. I’m glad you asked that. Because I think that we usually talk about our relationship with food. When I was working with clients one on one, I would say, “Tell me about your relationship with food.” It was always the same variation of the theme, “Oh gosh, don’t get me started.” Or you’d see people tense up. They would think it was them and food, and it felt like almost like a dead end.
I knew that I had to have a different approach, but I also realized that it isn’t just about us and food. There’s so much more to the story. And so, when you think about how you relate to food, you’re born into a household, in a culture, where there’s going to be influence on the way that you relate to food. You have different themes and different chapters. You have heroes and villains. People who come in and out and who influence your food story.
And so, I just realize that if I talk about it as a story, just like we have a love story, we have money story, we talk a lot about story. We don’t oftentimes think of food like that. But when I started to ask people, “Well, tell me about your food story.” They’d say, “Wow, I never really thought about it like that.” But what was so incredible is that when they started to think about some of the plot twist and all the story language that we can apply to it, it was like suddenly a lot of the shame and the blame was lifted because it wasn’t just them and food. There were so many other factors that came in.
The other thing is that a story has flow that is ongoing too. It’s not stuck. When we say, “Oh, my relationship with food, it’s complicated. I’ve always been this way.” But with a story, you can always turn the page and write a new chapter. So that’s where the concept came from. This was back in 2013 and I’ve stuck with it ever since.
Stu
(05:45)
That’s fascinating. Perhaps pivotal moments, sorry, for perhaps your clients or even yourself where food story is concerned. Do any spring to mind?
Elise
(05:58)
Oh, well, I have a whole bunch of pivotal moments. But what I wanted to ask you, when you first learned about food story, did you start to think about your own differently?
Stu
(06:09)
Yes, totally.
Elise
(06:11)
Or have you thought about, “Oh, I didn’t realize I have a food story”?
Stu
(06:14)
I did. I absolutely did. Then I started to think about friends and family members that I have around me and realized that we’ve got friends that are, I won’t say chocoholics, but they love their chocolate and they think it’s like a naughty treat. I don’t know why. Then they realize that when they were younger, they used to get chocolate from their parents. Now when they eat it, it connects them with their parents. Then I start to think about myself and all of the podcasting that we’ve done over the last decade and how that’s shaped the way that I think about food.
Because I have a switch in my mind now when food is presented. It’s either food or it’s not. And so, because I’ve had so many conversations with so many experts that have shown me that this is actually happening in this light when you’re consuming this, or if we consume these types of foods, all of this stuff happens. If somebody brings me out a plate of chips and dips, for instance, there’s no switch in my mind that says, “This is food.” I just don’t get the signal. But if somebody brings me a beautiful roast vegetables and a meat dish, then I’m thinking, “Oh, I really gravitate to that. I can’t wait to have that.” So it’s a strange filter that’s happening in my own mind, I think, from everything that I’ve learned over the years, and subconsciously has embedded itself in a program for me, or a story like you say. So yeah, it is fascinating stuff.
Elise
(07:43)
But does it make you feel bad or you feel comfortable with your choices?
Stu
(07:47)
I love it. I love it for me because, I mean, my diet typically now is animal-based whole food. No processed foods at all, no packaged foods. I just like fresh food, preparing it in the kitchen, things like that. But it energizes me. It fills me up, super satiating, I don’t have any cravings.
Elise
(08:11)
Amazing.
Stu
(08:12)
I get great sleep of which I track through the foods that I eat as well. Boundless energy. So, that works for me particularly. But I do get a few strange looks when people bring out the chocolate cake and the chips and dips and crackers and treats and sweets. I just don’t even have a signal for me. It’s like you may as well bring me out a bowl of cat food and say, “There you go.” It’s like, well, that’s not food. I don’t know whether that’s particularly healthy or not, but that’s just the way it’s played out for me. But I feel pretty good and I don’t have the troughs and peaks of blood sugar and all that kind of stuff because I’m full, and I understand that I need to get my protein, my carbohydrates, my fats, fiber, and all of the other minerals and vitamins from food, and I kind of do it on autopilot. I don’t know whether that works, but you’d be the perfect person to ask.
Elise
(09:11)
I think that what I would say is that it works for you now, and that doesn’t mean it won’t work for you forever, but to always stay open to the seasons change or bodies change part of the story. Or just like maybe your activity level might change at some point. I hope you always know what feels good, but I always try to encourage people not to get stuck in any sort of label. Constantly ask yourself, not obsessively but maybe from time to time, is this working for me now?
One of the things that sometimes we eat on autopilot, but when we can slow down and pay attention to our body the things that we’re eating on autopilot … I’m not suggesting this for you, but just in general, we might realize, wow, you know what? I actually don’t even like it. Or, it makes me bloated or whatever it might be. But because we do so many things because we think we should, or we do it on autopilot, we don’t always stay connected to our body and know what feels good. So it’s just great to check in all the time and to be open to change if that’s what your body is asking for.
Stu
(10:23)
Absolutely. That’s great advice. I mean, for me, I think it’s definitely a food is fuel angle that I think I take on nutrition because I live a very busy life. Very active as well and it’s really kind of rushing in. So it would be quite different to, I think, the celebratory, communal family meal times that are slow and enjoyable. It’s very much, “Right. What have I got next?” Food kind of fits into that. So, interesting to think about that, I think, for the first time when I looked into Food Story and what that actually means from a psychological perspective where our food is concerned.
Elise
(11:09)
Then also, we as parents, I know you mentioned that you have three daughters, our food story’s not our own. Just like a boring food story, the things that you are doing, the way that you’re eating, the way that you talk about food, the way that you behave around food, that’s all getting … no pressure, okay? That’s getting absorbed by-
Stu
(11:09)
I know.
Elise
(11:32)
… by your family and/or whoever you’re spending time cooking or eating with.
Stu
(11:39)
That’s a great segue then to my question about children. Because I’d be very keen to hear your perspective on how our children are impacted by our food stories. I’ll use myself then as a reference because obviously, I have a lot of knowledge now that allows me to make more informed choices. But I understand that the supermarkets and the marketing powers that be over here want to push their own products to make profit. Many of the products simply aren’t healthy, whether they’re loaded with sugar and/or inflammatory ingredients and colors and flavoring. All of those things that I know will set my children in a bit of a tired and wired scenario, fill them up with sugar and zero nutrients. But of course, I don’t want to be the boring dad that says you got to eat your meat and veggies when their friends aren’t. How would you navigate that knowing that you want the best for them, but you don’t want to alienate them or ostracize them in the playground for instance, or around their friends?
Elise
(12:49)
That’s such a good question. I’ve been on both sides because, well, like I mentioned, I started as an attorney. Also, we do the best we can with the knowledge we have at the time and things are always changing. I know that there are things that I did however many years ago and I’m like, “I can’t believe I did that.” We do the best we can.
And so, what first came to mind when you were sharing the different scenarios is that if we are too restrictive for ourselves, if we’re too restrictive for our children, they’re going to go to their friend’s houses or maybe whenever they have an opportunity to be on their own and make choices for themselves, and they will be tempted because it’s off limits. And so, how do you create that balance where you allow foods that you personally know aren’t going to serve them. Also, you don’t want label food as good and bad too. I had a podcast guest on my show who speaks, she’s like really good with language. She said that she talked about foods with foods that help you grow and foods that don’t help you grow. Kids. And so, instead of the good and bad scenario, it was foods that help you think or foods that might make you filled with energy and then super tired. Because you’re probably not going to be talking about blood sugar with your kids or the science of it. I mean, maybe at some point.
So it’s really about how you say it too. Also, if they see you eating your vegetables and happy and energetic, even if they’re like, “I don’t like veggies,” it sinks in. I’ll just tell you that I push the vegetables probably a little too hard, but this is how we ate. We ate from the farmer’s market. The way I still eat. We ate mostly fresh food because it’s accessible and I made balanced meals for them. They didn’t always, they would want the starch or the sweet or whatever. But now my sons cook on their own, and they cook exactly the way that they grew up. They both are phenomenal in the kitchen. That’s the other really big thing. If kids have ownership, if they’re involved, then they’re going to be more interested in that healthy food. So if they come with you to … Do you have farmer’s markets around?
Stu
(15:27)
Yes. Yeah, it totally is.
Elise
(15:30)
If they come with you to the store, the farmer’s market, or if you’re looking on the internet, or if you have cookbooks, you’re like, “Hey, I’m trying to figure out.” Younger kids you can say, “Let’s try to eat the rainbow. What should we do for red?” So there’s ways to really engage them without having to train them to be chefs or whatever. You can really engage them, just have them, “Hey, can you help me stir?” Or if they’re old enough, to chop a little bit. Then they become much more interested without you saying, “Eat your veggies.”
And so, I think getting the kids involved is huge. Sharing information in a way that is not threatening or that will make them automatically stop listening and just want to run out the room. And leading by example, that’s probably, that’s my favorite one. Because even if you don’t see it at first, eventually it shows up. I’ve interviewed hundreds of guests on my podcast and worked with hundreds and hundreds of clients. There are things that just trickle down from your family. Does this all sound good to you?
Stu
(16:48)
No, it totally does. I can absolutely associate what’s happening in my family with the things that you’re saying as well. I mean, my youngest, I’ve got two daughters that are twins and they’re 13, they cook. They’re in the kitchen. We have a turn that we cook every night and they’ll take one turn. They know what they need to do. They know that we need fresh food and they need to create something nice that we’re going to enjoy that as a family. That generally isn’t junk, for want of a better phrase.
Elise
(17:27)
Well, the other thing that you could do is if there’s an opportunity, if you know that your child doesn’t feel well because of eating too much junk is you could just say to that, “Maybe it’s great that you realize that you don’t feel well. Maybe next time …” Whatever. I don’t know what, too much chocolate or too many …
Stu
(17:56)
We had that on Easter time. One of my daughters ate all of her Easter eggs in one go and was sick. We said, “Well, look, you’ve eaten your Easter eggs.” Grace, my other child has still got most of them left and she’ll spread them over the next month or so. “You’ve eaten them all and you’ve been sick. How do you feel?”
Elise
(18:15)
Right, exactly. How do you feel? How did that make you feel instead of you … It’s true. I was going to tell you a story that happened when my kids were younger. My oldest son loved dessert. He just had a sweet tooth. The funny thing is he doesn’t now, but he would just, and I was the parent, this is how I grew up, it was before I was as evolved, I’d say, “If you eat your dinner, then you can have the dessert.” I would never do that now because, I mean, just for any parent who might be doing that, it just makes it more coveted and it’s like a reward. And so then, that’s why if we’ve had a bad day, we might crave that food that as a child we got as the reward, later in life. So, the story keeps going on.
I had read in a magazine that if you put the dessert out with the chicken, with the broccoli, with the sweet potato, and you put the whatever you’re serving, even if it’s a healthy dessert, it doesn’t matter, if you put the dessert out, then initially they might go to the dessert first because they’ve been conditioned like that. But then after a while, it’s like, it was so I did not like watching like a bite of the broccoli, a bite of the dessert, and then it just kind of all becomes even. It’s no longer the reward or the thing you get. That’s another, if parents are struggling with the child wanting only the dessert, make it so that it isn’t anything special. It’s equal with the vegetables.
Stu
(19:50)
You make a good point. Because I always liken treats for children when they’re sweet-based almost like sugar cubes to a horse. There are better things I think, because like you said, they’re not going to make the child feel good in the long term, and you are likening the sweet treat to something quite special when perhaps which shouldn’t be.
Elise
(20:15)
Right.
Stu
(20:15)
But you mentioned chocolate. I know that it’s a trigger for a lot of us. I’ve heard you use the term chocolate meditation. I’m just wondering what that means and why it might be significant when thinking about our food story.
Elise
(20:32)
I think you might appreciate this because you were talking about how busy you are. Chocolate meditation is an exercise. I do put that in my book, but I also do it in person every time I do a workshop. What it is is where you pretty much just bring all your senses to the table. You have a piece of chocolate, you close your eyes, then you touch it, you smell it, and you slowly, slowly eat that chocolate. And you keep your mind on that piece of chocolate. You don’t think about the next, what if you’re going to have another serving after you finish it. You’re just eating the chocolate. And so, it’s really exaggerated. I don’t really think it’s realistic that most people are going to sit there. It’s like a meditation because you block everything out and you’re just so focused on the chocolate.
But it really does illustrate how we do what I say eat and. So we eat and check our emails. We eat and drive. We eat and run out the door. We eat and scroll through social media. We eat and. And so, this is really to teach you how to just eat. That doesn’t mean every meal needs to be like that, but it really shows how you taste the chocolate. I mean, I had a guy who was in a workshop. He came up to me two weeks later and he is like, “I can still taste the chocolate.” Because it so powerful. And so, I really will encourage people to try something like that on their own to notice most of us aren’t tasting our food. That’s the example I brought up to you about being willing to change and realizing when you go slow that something doesn’t sit with you. So then, if you start bringing that awareness to the table, then you realize, “Wait, I’ve been eating this sandwich for however long and I don’t even like it,” or “I actually really do like this, and I do feel good,” whatever, insert the dinner.
So, it’s really powerful and something that I encourage all the listeners to try in their own way. In fact, if you wanted to include it somewhere, I could send you that to put on your blog so people can do the chocolate meditation on their own.
Stu
(22:52)
I think I’d like that. And I think it just plays into the fast-paced nature of our lives today which, as you pointed out, oftentimes brings technology into meal times. Even from a scientific perspective, if we are not concentrating on the food that we eat, then I don’t think that we are enacting all of the biological processes that need to happen to be able to digest properly.
Elise
(23:19)
I want to talk about that. Actually, but I was going to share with you that, I don’t know the exact statistics right now off the top of my head, but they’re crazy. How many people eat with their phone. They can’t even imagine not having their phone next to them during a meal. I mean, we don’t need our phone to need to eat or document. I mean, I used to document all of it too because of social media. No, I don’t need to do that anymore. I get to enjoy my food. We get to enjoy it and we don’t need the pings and all of that. It takes away our peace.
Stu
(23:57)
It totally does. I always sound like an old man to my children, but I remember the time before mobile phones, before internet, and I tell them it was good because sometimes you were bored, and being bored is good sometimes because you have to sit there and figure things out and daydream and connect with people. Nowadays, all of that’s gone. We’ve got this instant gratification at our fingertips and we can have whatever we want at our choosing by swiping left, swiping right, or changing apps, whatever it is. It’s becoming invasive in terms of meal times. Even bringing the phone into the toilet. I just rewind and just remember when that wasn’t even an issue. Couldn’t have even thought about that ever happening. But now it is.
Elise
(24:52)
I remember that too.
Stu
(24:53)
Yeah, they were good times.
Elise
(24:55)
Talk about villains in our food stories. I would then say the phone is a villain, especially during meal times. And that if you can just give yourself 10 minutes or a little bit longer, where you go plug in, turn it upside down and leave it far from the table, it will make such a difference. If you’re having issues, if you tend not to be aware of your hunger and fullness cues, or if you’re like not feeling well because you eat too quickly, taking the phone away from the table can and may help that with those things.
Stu
(25:32)
No, that’s good. That’s good advice. I think that would benefit everyone. Trying to have these little breaks from tech is always a good thing. I’m thinking about, again everybody, as you pointed out, will have a food story in some way, shape or form. Many of us know people that want to eat a healthy meal or want to eat more healthily, but continually mess up. They’ll slip back into their old patterns. Or maybe they go through a challenging time and forget about healthy habits, and kick themselves for doing so. And perhaps in that period of feeling bad about doing so, would eat even more stuff that they don’t want to eat. Where would we start if we really wanted to address that? Because I know that there’s so much going on, certainly from a psychological perspective, but then also the noise that’s coming in from the foods that are tapping us on our shoulder, that perhaps make us feel good in the moment. How could we get out of that?
Elise
(26:37)
Well, first I wanted to say that when we talk about a food story, a lot of times people will think that a food story is only negative and all of these challenges. Your food story is filled with both positive memories and also whatever your obstacles and blocks are, but it’s not all negative. So, I just want to say that. I think for the person who notices these patterns over and over again and feels very frustrated, or it has to be that way, or there’s a lot of guilt, I think you were sort of getting at that guilt, they blame themselves. Really, stepping back and understanding, when did it all begin? Where did these patterns start? Because sometimes we can identify not the minute something happened, but a something, a moment in time. It could be a parent’s divorce when you were a child. It could be something traumatic that happened in your life or moving.
I think of this a lot. I had a client whose father, when she was going through puberty and her body was changing, her father got uncomfortable and would side eye her if she took more than one serving. And so then she became a closet eater. She would hide food in her room. When we were working together, she’s like, “I hate that I do this.” I asked her, “Well, when did it start?” She hadn’t even put two and two together. That can help release a lot of the blame because you realize, “Oh, my gosh, so that’s why I do that.”
Sometimes it’s not really even about the food too. When people are self sabotaging, what else is going on in your life? You have to ask yourself all those hard questions. What gets in the way? Sometimes you keep making the same mistake over and over again until you’re able to address it. It’s like a cry from your life. Why am I doing this?
And so, the other thing is that we constantly feel bad about ourself because of the noise that is coming at us all the time. You had mentioned noise and I have a term called food noise. It’s everywhere. So we were talking earlier and it’s there. It’s not just in the States, but I know just living in the States that it’s everywhere. And you said it’s rampant too, and we all have access to the internet, so it’s on the internet. But we get these messages all day long and we don’t even realize that we’re absorbing them. You open up social media and you see some influencer talking about their plan or the newest super food. There’s nothing necessarily inherently wrong with that. But over time, what it does is it takes you outside of your own body and listening to your own messages that we get all day long and thinking somebody else knows better about me than I do, which isn’t the truth.
And so, for food noise, it’s in books, it’s in media, it’s your friends, it’s just all the old beliefs that you have, the first thing to do is just become aware that it’s there and you’re not going to be able to get rid of it because it’s a fact of modern living. But you can change the way you respond to it. When you become aware of it … I want to give an actual tip. Go through and take an inventory of your day and notice where it’s coming in, and see how you can reduce some of it. Whether it’s not following somebody on social media who makes you feel bad, even if that’s not their intention. Or when a commercial comes on, if you’re watching the news, just going and folding laundry or doing something different and diverting your attention.
So, it’s about the way you respond to it and trying to reduce it, but you’re never going to eliminate it. And so, acknowledging that is really, that makes it feel more doable, to be able to not let it penetrate. And to start to do things like that, chocolate meditation I explained, where you feel more connected to your body and to listening to your signals. You brought up the example of how feel good with what you eat, but to know you feel good you have to be connected to your body. You’re paying attention to your energy level. You’re paying attention to your thoughts. That they’re positive and that you’re not doubting yourself. Did that answer your question?
Stu
(31:42)
That totally did. And so, I mean, do you journal? Do you use …
Elise
(31:49)
It’s a good thing. I’m glad you brought that up. A lot of people will dismiss it and say, “I’m not a journal. I don’t journal.” And so, whether it’s journaling, you don’t want to call it journaling, or you just are going to write something down, I have a lot of exercises that I do with clients and I have in the book. Because writing actually releases it from your body. It is so powerful. The other thing is, if you are somebody who struggles with negative self-talk, write down what you’re saying without judgment. Just write it down. Then, when you’re not in that moment, go back and read it. You will be amazed at the way you talk to yourself. Of course, you’ve probably heard, would you talk to your child like that? Would you talk to your best friend? But just you know, it’s like an objective way of observing your own inner dialogue or inner narrative. So, journaling, writing, all of it is so, so, so effective.
Stu
(32:53)
What do you say to customers or clients, friends, family that are confused by the information that we are currently being exposed to in terms of what is the best diet. How should we eat for longevity for optimal health? Because currently there are so many different sides to this conversation. You’ve got on the very far left veganism, and on the very far right carnivore, and then everything in between, which may be low carb, high carb, Mediterranean, paleo, pescatarian, pollotarian. There’s so much noise. I think everybody that is typically proclaiming that this is the best diet has generally cured an ailment of themselves. They feel evangelical, and now they’re talking to the world, “Look what this does to you,” when it’s really just an experiment on themselves. So it’s really hard to get an understanding of where we sit. Should we be eating more vegetables? Should we be eating more meat? Should we be fasting? Again, that’s another sort of noise that’s just coming out.
Elise
(34:04)
That’s a good one. That’s a really good one. There’s a lot and everyone has science to back up their science for all advice. I think that nutrition is confusing. We still have a lot of work to do in that field. But my answer to this is not the easy answer. First, I don’t really care for labels because I think that if we’re talking about feeling guilty, if you’re following as prescribed, and then you don’t or life happens, which inevitably will, then that for sure will lead to guilt. But I think that, we are all so different and we go through different times and seasons. Someone might eat differently during their cycle or when they’re pregnant or in menopause or whatever.
So I think it’s really, really important, this is where staying connected to your body matters. That doesn’t mean that you can’t listen to the expert or be curious. Maybe you do want to try intermittent fasting because something in you said, “Wow, I think that might work for me. But the optimal word here is might. I want to just say one thing, that if you’re someone who with a history of an eating disorder or disordered eating or where you’ve had a lot of rules and that’s really been not good for you mentally, that intermittent fasting may not be right for you. But for somebody who’s like, “Wow, there is science to back it up. I’m curious,” I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying new things. Otherwise, we’re always stuck and we can never evolve, which is a good story. Always evolve.
So I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying new ways of eating new super foods or a different protein powder or whatever it might be. But as long as you say, I’m curious and you try it, and then you are connected enough to yourself to know whether this feels good to you. But you don’t do it because you think you should, or because it’s the latest and greatest thing that someone else is talking about. So, it’s hard because if you’ve been disconnected from your body for so long, how do you suddenly connect to it? Well, you slow down. You listen to the messages. We have that gut feeling, we ignore it. I still, to this day, I’ll ignore my gut feeling. And how many times have you said, “I should have listened to my gut.” The same is true with food. I think being open to change is a great thing, and then figuring out what works for you without labels.
Stu
(36:49)
Oh, absolutely. I think you’re spot on. Oftentimes, coming back to the mindset and the thought that we are continually evolving and our digestive system can change from season to season, maybe because we’ve eaten something and we react to it in the summer, it might not be the same in the winter. And oftentimes people can adopt a more plan based way of eating for maybe three months that feels invigorating, but in over the course of maybe 6 to 12 months leaves us feeling flat because we need to constantly evolve and change and figure out what works for us. It’s food. It’s a fascinating subject, isn’t it?
Elise
(37:32)
It is. But there are some constants. We do know that whole real foods, I mean, I’m not going to pretend, whole real foods are better for everybody. Eating with the seasons is the way mother nature intended. It’s amazing how juicy fruits and vegetables are what’s in season in the summer. That’s what our body needs; whereas the hardier grounding root veggies are in season for the fall. So, I do think eating as close to the earth and the seasons is possible. That’s always helpful. And it connects you also to your food, it connects you to your environment. It’s the way that, like I said, mother nature intended. You’re just going to, you’ll feel more in sync with everything around you.
Stu
(38:22)
I think. It’s a great place to start as a default or a template if we can try and eat more whole foods, real foods, less packaged foods, seasonal foods, local foods, nose to tail, farm to table, all these different phrases come out. But there’s meaning behind it.
Elise
(38:40)
And just not to be so caught up in the rule or to think something is wrong or you’re bad if you eat, I don’t know, a kiwi. I’m going to bring up like a kiwi in the winter. That’s a nice season in the winter, right there? But you would have it. So if you do that once in a while, it’s not really a big deal. But I think people need to be gentle with themselves too. I have this phrase, let yourself be human. Go out, celebrate a birthday. Don’t think like, “Oh no, I blew it, and I’m not ever going to eat the way I know feels good because I blew it at this one meal.”
Stu
(39:19)
Exactly, right.
Elise
(39:20)
Is it going to make difference? Right?
Stu
(39:23)
Totally. Exactly right. Oftentimes I think it pays just to think about things and become, I think, less stressed on trying to beat yourself up about any given topic. I kind of just realized we’re kind of coming up on time, almost there. But I wanted just to ask you personally about perhaps daily non-negotiables. Things that you do that you have learned maybe to include into your day or the start of your day that you do every single day in order to win that day. It might be that you need to journal or do yoga, or you like to drink water with vinegar in the morning, all those things that it’s just autopilot that make you feel vibrant.
Elise
(40:11)
So funny, we’re very in sync because I actually posted about that in my stories yesterday. I wrote about daily non-negotiables years and years ago, but I’ve been thinking about them recently and then you just asked about it. So, that’s really cool.
Here’s the deal with daily non-negotiables. I feel like we can make this super long list of daily non-negotiables and then we become frustrated and beat ourselves up because we didn’t do our daily non-negotiables. So my advice for anybody who is thinking, what are my daily non-negotiables, I think you have to have a short list of daily negotiables. Things that make you feel real good that you do no matter what. Then you can have the nice list. Like, that would be nice. Because not everyone has two hours in the morning for their morning routine. I’ve seen that all over. It just isn’t realistic.
I do the sunlight in the morning. When I say sunlight, we have cloudy days too, but it still counts, but I go outside. I mean, having dogs helps with that. Then something that during the last two years that I really picked up is spending time in nature. I’m so lucky I live in the middle of Washington, DC and nature is like, I walk eight minutes and I’m in the middle of the woods.
Stu
(41:29)
Fantastic.
Elise
(41:31)
Not everyone has that, but there’s trees, there’s pockets of nature in the middle of city. Just being surrounded by the sound of nature or the greenery is incredible. It helps with sleep and your circadian rhythm, but it also is so calming and good for your mood. So, nature and sunlight. They can be together movement. It used to be exercise was tied to punishment food for me, when I was restrictive. Now I just move because I get the creative juices flowing. I work out stress. I love it. I’m not like, “Oh, I have to run.” If I feel like walking, I will walk. I still run. I used to run marathons. But I like to mix it up and I like to move my body every day. So some days are harder and some days are easier just for that balance, but movement is key.
Then, I would say, I’m going to just name one more of my every day. I have a matcha ritual. Sure, I love all the nutrients in matcha, and it tastes good. I love that I’m flooding my body with that. But I think that more than all the nutrients in matcha, I think it’s the actual ritual. That it’s like, this is time, there’s no phone. I get to sift the matcha, whisk it, make it. It’s just like sacred time for me.
And so, I would say those three things. Three things?
Stu
(41:31)
Yeah.
Elise
(43:11)
Are ideally non-negotiables. But also making sure I eat all the fresh food, and doing some sort of prep so that I don’t let time be an excuse. Those are things that are part of my non-negotiables. But the other things are the habits that I do every single day. Does that make sense?
Stu
(43:32)
That makes perfect sense. With the exception of the matcha, we share exactly the same set of healthy habits and non-negotiables. Exactly the same. I love movement, sunlight, nutrition, and it’s been interesting as well. Because I like to walk a lot. I like to get steps in during the day, just incidental, outside of the gym. I’ve found that I used to listen to podcasts, listen to music. But this year I’ve concentrated on not listening to anything, just thinking. It’s made a complete difference to the way that I feel. Because I think prior to that, there was so much sensory overload from tech that I felt like almost like a nervous tension that was always there. Almost like a hum of a speaker in the background. When you take that away, you can actually think clearly and process things and plan things in your mind. It’s been game changer for me, which has been fascinating. But certainly, all of that feeds into sunlight, which just helps with everything, sleep and mood and mindset. Maybe I’ll try the matcha. I don’t know.
Elise
(44:53)
That’s okay. I don’t want to have to convince you, but I love, I’m a huge walker. We moved into the city about four years ago in DC, and I don’t even drive. I’ll drive once a month.
Stu
(44:53)
That’s great.
Elise
(45:01)
I just try to when I’m like, “Oh, the yoga studio is too far if I can’t walk there.” So, I walk everywhere. But I think it’s sort of interesting when you were talking about the experience, how the walking without distractions makes you feel. I feel like we’re coming full circle. It’s the same thing as when you eat without distraction. You get to be tuned into your body, and for you, your mind when you’re walking too. I think, if I could give the listeners a piece of advice, it is to really minimize those distractions. The distractions from food noise, the distractions that take us away from being connected to our bodies during meals, the distractions you talk about during movement, and just really allow yourself to sometimes just do that one thing.
Stu
(45:48)
Oh, it’s a game changer. And if you walk the same route, try and notice different things about the way that you’re walking about your environment. It’s fascinating. The stuff that presents itself can be quite unusual and unique because you’re seeing it for the first time. But yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing those tips.
Elise
(46:09)
Likewise. Thank you.
Stu
(46:11)
What’s next? What have you got in the radar? I mean, we are more than part way through the year. What’s in the pipeline?
Elise
(46:19)
I’m so glad you asked because I was so focused on the book for a long time. I’m actually doing a food story course. And so, I’ll have up on my website a waiting list. I love, love, love teaching. I think that everybody takes in information differently. It feels different when you’re reading versus when you’re having a discussion or it’s being presented to you in a video. I’m really excited about that. So that’s what I’m focused on and my podcast, and you should come on as a guest.
Stu
(46:56)
I would love to. I would love to.
Elise
(46:56)
Right? So, we’ll have it. It’s called Once Upon a Food Story. The book that you mentioned, your listeners are from all over the world, but it’s called Food Story: Rewrite the Way You Eat, Think, and Live. Then, I’m constantly updating recipes, my blog. I have a good time on Instagram.
Stu
(47:17)
Fantastic. Well, boy, you are busy. I don’t know how you fit in everything that you do. For all of our listeners then that want to find out more about food story, grab a copy of the book, follow you, where can we send them? Where would be the best place?
Elise
(47:36)
Well, I was thinking that on Amazon, the UK, I know that the book is available there. I’m not sure it’s in Australia right now, but it’s all over, you have listeners everywhere.
Stu
(47:51)
[crosstalk 00:47:51]
Elise
(47:51)
To see where you can find it, so the book, and if you can’t get the hard copy, then you can get the digital copy. Then, my website, you can get links to everything on my website, which is my name elisemuseles.com. My social media is now elisemuseles. My podcast, wherever you listen to podcast.
Stu
(48:17)
Fantastic. Well, look, thank you so much. We’ll put all of the links that you’ve spoken about today in the show notes and send a ton of traffic your way. Hopefully, people will understand exactly what you mean about with the food story, and will be able to connect with you, and possibly connect with your program as well, when that goes live, which would be very exciting.
Elise
(48:37)
Well, thank you so much for having me and for all the work that you do. It’s just also so nice to see a dad so thoughtful about his daughters. That’s really meaningful.
Stu
(48:52)
I don’t think they think the same way that you do about me.
Elise
(48:55)
They will. They will. I promise you, they will. [crosstalk 00:48:55]
Stu
(48:55)
But thanks, again. Really appreciate your time. Thank you.
Elise
(49:02)
Goodbye, Stuart.
