Shaun O'Gorman: From PTSD to The Strong Life Project. Making Everyday Count | 180 Nutrition

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Shaun O’Gorman: From PTSD to The Strong Life Project. Making Everyday Count

Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

Guy:  This week welcome to the show Shaun O’Gorman. He is the founder of THE STRONG LIFE PROJECT. He helps individuals, particularly Police, Military, and First Responders, be more connected, effective and strong leaders in their life. He helps them have the confidence to stand up, be counted and not give a shit what other people think. Being a loving, connected and powerful leader means you are the best Husband/Partner, Father, Friend and Colleague you can be, whilst not being influenced by other people’s opinions.

He has overcome many struggles and obstacles in his life and through this process he realised he has Developed the ability to help other people achieve amazing results for themselves in their lives and ultimately to LIVE THE STRONG LIFE.

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Questions we ask in this episode:

  • How did you come back from the dark times in your life?
  • For anyone out there who’s in a dark place, what 3 tips/advice would you give them?
  • Can you discuss the 4 keys to your work in managing mental and emotional health.
  • Your book is called “My Dark Companion” what is your dark companion?
  • What Is The Strong Life Project?

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Full Transcript

Guy

Hey, this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition and of course, welcome to another stellar episode of the Health Sessions. Every week we connect with leading global health and wellness experts to share the best and latest science thinking, and empowering us all to turn our health and lives around. [00:00:30] This week we are doing with the awesome Shaun O’Gorman. Boy did I love this show.Shaun is just a tower of strength, man. He set up what’s called the strong life project. Shaun has got a phenomenal story and background in what he’s doing. [00:01:00] To put it shortly, Shaun spent 13 years in the police force. We’ll get in to some of the things that he had seen and witnessed and had to deal with on a daily basis in the particular part of the force that he was in, in the dog squad. It’s quite incredible actually. He talks about his PTSD, and his depression, and his suicidal thoughts, and how he got through that and has come back out the other side to set up the Strong Life project, as a place for men in particular. Even that have been in the military or the police force, not necessarily, but where they can actually start to be open and talk about these things. [00:01:30] Shaun is sharing all his wisdom, what he’s learned and what he feels is necessary to turn these things around and then become a leader in your own family and your life. In Shaun’s words, he says, “This being a loving, connected, and powerful leader means you’re the best husband, partner, father, friend, and colleague you can be, whilst not being influenced by other people’s opinions.” It was just awesome and I loved every second of it. I have no doubt you’re going to get heaps out of this today. If you do know anyone that might be going through a bit of tough time or a dark place at the moment, then definitely, definitely share this episode with them after you listen to it because it’s things like this that can really shape and help people, the direction of their life moving forward, especially when it’s in that sort of place. It was awesome. [00:02:00] [00:02:30] Don’t forget guys, I want to mention as well, that we are giving away free samples of our 180 Super Food Protein Blend at the moment. All you need to do if you haven’t tried it, is come back to 180nutrition.com.au and click the big banner on the home page, and that will lead you where you can get your free sample. We just ask for a small fee in shipping and handling, which we think is fair enough. We always say, replace your breakfast with it. If you’re struggling to eat cleanly on a regular basis, start with a smoothie, start at breakfast time. It’s gonna be two minutes and you can get real food real fast. It’s empowering thousands of people. We aim to reach a hundred thousand people in Australia this year to at least try 180 so we can contribute and help their nutrition. So if you know anyone as well that you might think benefit from the 180 blend. Please, just send them over to 180 where they can actually grab a free sample and take it from there. All right guys, that is awesome. Let’s go over to Shaun. Enjoy the show, this is a great one. [00:03:00] Hi, this is Guy Lawrence, I’m joined with Stuart Cooke. Good morning, Stuart. Oh.

Stu

Hello, mate. How are you?

Guy

Wow, there’s a huge delay then. And our awesome guest today is Shaun O’Gorman. Shaun welcome to the show.

Shaun

Thank you, boys. Pleasure to be on.

Guy

Awesome, fantastic. Now, Shaun we ask everyone on the show that comes on, If a complete stranger stopped you on the street and ask you what you did for a living, what would you say? [00:03:30]

Shaun

A couple of things. But, the main one is Critical Stress Consultant. So, what I do now is help people with deal with stress, deal with PTSD, deal their mental health, and their life, so that’s the term I came up with.

Guy

Brilliant.

Stu

Wow. That sound like quite a needy job title. I think there would be quite a few people that would love to have a chat with you. Me included.

Shaun Yeah, that’s absolutely right. [00:04:00]

Guy

Totally. Now Shaun, obviously I know you pretty well, mate and know quite a lot of your journey. So would you mind taking us back, and why you got in to this in the first place, and where it all started from. Because yeah, it’s pretty amazing what you’ve been through, dude.

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Shaun

[00:04:30] Yeah, sure Guy. So the sort of two-minute version, I guess. I joined the police in 1989. I was a police officer for 13 years. I was in a police dog squad for nine of those years, so that’s pretty violent. Armed hold ups, fights, domestics, armed offenders, seizures, those sort of things. Left the police in 2001 with post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, and battled suicide. All that’s 15 years ago now, or 16 years ago now. So, as a result, a lot of the trauma and the violence that I saw as a police officer, obviously it had a pretty serious effect my mental health, and the people around me, relationships, all those sorts of things. [00:05:00] My father was a cop for 42 years, he’s retired now. Similar sort of thing, he’s also been diagnosed with PTSD post his career. So then, when I left the police 15 years ago, I couldn’t find anybody, spoke to psychs, spoke to psychologists, spoke to counselors, and nobody could tell me how to move forward from that. Everybody could tell me why I had the injury, that mental injury. They could explain to me the chemical imbalance, they could explain to me the trauma that caused it, but nobody could tell me anything better than, “We can medicate you and you cope with it for the rest of your life.” and I just wasn’t prepared to do that. So I went out and it wasn’t- [crosstalk 00:05:28]

Guy

I was gonna say- [crosstalk 00:05:31] [00:05:30]

Shaun

You go.

Guy

Sorry, there’s definitely a bit of lag here. What kind of roles did you used to do in police force, Shaun?

Shaun

[00:06:00] So, I spent the majority of the time in the police dog squad. So, that’s a general duties, first response role. You have a German Shepherd, you work on your own. You don’t have a partner. It’s pretty much just go to what police call hot jobs. So, anything violent, car chases, domestic violence situations. So it was a lot of violence and where a normal uniform police officer might go to one of those a shift, then be tied up for six or seven hours doing paperwork, it was not uncommon for us to do eight, or 10, or a dozen of those in one eight-hour period. So, it’s pretty intense.

Stu

Wow. Shaun: But, also a lot of fun. It was an awesome job.

Stu

Oh, crikey. Yeah.

Guy

What sort of things did you used to see? Like can you- [00:06:30]

Shaun

Oh, mate, yeah, one of the incidents that when I look back, had the biggest influence on my PTSD, and PTSD is an accumulative thing, but there’s normally a couple of defining incidences. [00:07:00] There’s was one for instance, I live in Brisbane, we had a car chase, a pursuit with two guys through Fortitude Valley. They were armed with a .303 rifle and a .243 rifle, so two fairly serious sort of weapons that aren’t available anymore. We got in a vehicle pursuit with them and they shot about 24 bullets in to the police car in front of me. I ended up the second vehicle in the chase. I was trying to get around them to ram them off the road, they were headed in to a reasonably populated area. But, the police in front of me were swerving all over the road, trying to not be shot obviously. [00:07:30] They crashed their car, jumped out of their car, ran down Brunswick Street Mall here in Brisbane, which is like a pedestrian mall with restaurants and night clubs. I chased them down the mall on foot with my pistol, didn’t have my dog. The other guys were still in their car. We rounded a corner, they ran about another block. They kept turning around and pointing the rifle at me, but I couldn’t shoot them because there were people around. If I had have shot and missed, then you can kill someone else, there’s all of those things you got to take in to consideration. [00:08:00] Turned the corner and the first guy, [inaudible 00:07:36] had one of the rifles, was holding the rifle. He turned and was facing me and I was a few meters away. I had my gun on him, there was a number of other police car there at that point. He put the gun in his mouth, pulled the trigger and shot himself. So he hit the ground, there was about half a second of silence, and then I started moving in on the second guy with my pistol pointed at him. Screaming at him to “get on the ground, get on the ground.” And he picked up the rifle, put it under his chin and shot himself.

Guy

Oh my word.

Shaun

[00:08:30] So, that’s a fairly extreme case but that was the most violent thing I had seen. But there was a lot of those sort of things, you know? You might go to a domestic incident where a guy had bashed his wife to a point where she ends up in a coma. She’s in the hospital, there’s kids in the house. You’d go to an armed hold up where people have been threatened by gunmen with shotguns or whatever, so the emotional impact on them, bad car accidents. So all this stuff that police, and soldiers, and first responders see that we’re just not built to handle. We’re just not built as human beings to take that sort of trauma onboard.

Guy

That’s-

Stu

Absolutely.

Guy

I’m speechless man. Do you get to a point where you’re desensitized from that kind of-

Shaun

[00:09:00] Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. The thing for me, I think that I have spent 15 years, I’ve done all sorts of personal development, I’ve done all sorts of things and dug so deep in to this, I believe some people are more susceptible to it, similar to diabetes or cancer or whatever. I also believe, if you’re fairly emotionally connected and caring, like I’m a heart on my sleeve sort of person, so that emotional impact of what you see, I think, hits you harder because you give more of yourself to it. You’re more invested in it. [00:09:30] That’s all I ever wanted to do was help people and make a difference as a cop. All I wanted to do is stand on what they call The Thin Blue Line, between the good guys and the bad guys. So you get to a point, mate, where you do become really desensitized. That was the thing that concerned me the most in hind-sight. I was very desensitized, but I was also very angry. I was getting violent and that’s all a sign of depression and a sign that you’re not coping with it mentally from a pure chemical imbalance. You’re in adrenal fatigue all the time. [00:10:00] You’re always waiting for things to happen, you’re driving around waiting for things to happen. You’re off duty, scanning everything. You never switch off. So your brain actually stops producing serotonin and stops producing dopamine. So, you actually end up in a chemical depression, if you like, and the only way you deal with that is try to desensitize. So a lot of police see the victims of crime as, for one of a better term, like pieces of meat. You know, they’re not really people. But, it’s very hard to do that. Then, it’s hard to be disconnected in your job and then really emotionally connected and loving in your life. You know, you can’t be both. [00:10:30]

Stu

No, absolutely. Were there strategies in place in the force that allowed you to work on those issues?

Shaun

No, mate. Not at all, Stu. Not then. Definitely not, there was very much that stigma. It’s a good alpha male thing, it’s a good Aussie male thing and female thing. When I talk about alpha males in the police, I mean alpha personalities. There’s plenty of very strong alpha women in the police as well. But, the culture is don’t talk about it. The culture is, if you show signs of weakness then that’s the end of your career potentially. [00:11:00] You’ve got to put yourself in the mind of a police officer or soldier. You have got to be on, you can’t show weakness. So, if turn up at a job and the guy’s got a gun, or he’s whatever … It could be anything, a massive fight or anything violent. If you turn up and show weakness, then you lose. Literally you’re the people that are there standing between the cretins of society who want to do violence and harm to people and the decent humans. So, that rolls in to not showing any weakness. [00:11:30] I must say, I’m back doing a bit of work now with the Queensland Police, that I was a member of before. I’m doing a fair bit of stuff. Starting to branch out to do some stuff with police mental health and military mental health in the States and here. The conversation started probably 12 months ago, I reckon, and it’s starting to build a bit more momentum. You’re seeing more news things, you’re seeing more 60 Minutes stories, you’re seeing more of those sort of things. But, it’s still in its infancy. [00:12:00] Like I deal with a good friend of mine, who is the Executive Director of Welfare here for Queensland Police, and they definitely have the right opinion these days. It doesn’t mean it’s perfect. It doesn’t mean the system works. You’ve still got a great system that may well not have the best people in it because there’s still the old school culture. But, it’s moving in the right direction. When I was in it, definitely no strategies. I had never heard of PTSD in relation to police officers. I had only heard of it associated to Vietnam Veterans, so I didn’t even know it was a thing.

Guy

Wow.

Stu

My word.

Guy

[00:12:30] Did you go in to the depression while you were still at the police force or was it when you kind of stepped away? Your life would have changed, I would imagine anyway, because all of a sudden you’re not in this intense environment every single day. Is that when it sort of kicked in, after, when you-

Shaun

[00:13:00] No. I didn’t know I was in depression. That was the difficult part. I just thought I was just an angry person. I just thought that I didn’t cope. And all the fears, doubts, and insecurities, walking in to … For instance, that job is an extreme one where the two guys shot themselves. [00:13:30] But, other jobs were … You know, I had another incident where there was a guy firing shots out of a house and, very long story short, I went with two other police to do a reconnaissance on it. When I got to the front of the house, I had a fairly … With all humility, I feel like a bit of a goose saying this, but I had a pretty big personality, as being pretty brave, and whatever and my dad very much along that line. So our family was like that in the police. So, we got to this house, I felt pressure that I then put on myself, we better kick the door in and go in to this place. So we did, but I was terrified, absolutely terrified walking up to kick that door. [00:14:00] You wouldn’t have known it to look at me. I didn’t see it in the other two guys I’m with, so also I’m thinking I’m the only one who’s scared. These other guys are really brave and courageous, I must be weak. So all of those things, the normal fears, doubts, and insecurities we all have, then laid to the point where you’re doubting yourself. The harder I worked, the bigger the reputation I built, the more I felt like I was a fraud because I didn’t feel brave. I now look and think bravery and courage is actually to feel that fear and do it anyway. But, that all lead to the depression. I didn’t realize there was anything wrong until pretty much the last job I did, which again, was a pretty violent thing. I would wake up in the middle of the night in tears and shaking. I had years of flashbacks and nightmares, but I just thought that was part of it. [00:14:30]

Stu

Yeah. Crikey. Wow, unbelievable. So, I wanted to talk about your book that you’ve written. Because I’m guessing that’s going to reveal a very large part of what you went through. Now it’s called, My Dark Companion. So, I wondered if you could just tell us a little bit about the book, and also perhaps, why the title?

Shaun

Yeah, absolutely Stu. So, the book chronicles my journey.

Stu

Yes.

Shaun

[00:15:00] I so don’t even like that word. My journey all the way through my police career. There’s a bit about my childhood because also being the son of a police officer, there’s a lot of understanding in that for families. But that into the police, there’s a lot of stories about the violence. There’s a fair bit of humor in there as well, but a self-deprecating humor. So it’s got the story of how I got to where I got to, but then the recovery process of … I talk about all, what I call a [inaudible 00:15:16] of courses I did and sitting in a room with 350 people who were talking about their childhood trauma and their emotions and stuff that just wasn’t me. It was just 180 degrees opposite to the person I was, and I hated it. [00:15:30] [00:16:00] But all of these things I worked with, kinesiologist and hypnotherapists and every weirdo hippie sort of thing I could think of at that time, which I now think is amazing, to get through to the process where I could come out the other side and live a good life. The book journals all of that. There’s a lot of sort of tools in there for just men. It’s based on a lot of my police story, but my target audience is men. Because we don’t talk. Men don’t talk about emotion, we don’t talk about stress, we don’t talk about the stuff that hurts us. Hence, the reason we’ve got … You know male suicide is the biggest killer of men in the Western society.

Guy

Wow.

Shaun

[00:16:30] So, it’s actually, male suicide is bigger, I think it’s 24 to 45 or something around that mark, in this country. Male suicide kills more men than the road top. More men than any other one factor. The thing for me was, the reason I wrote it, I left the police, no one knew I had PTSD. Nobody knew I was diagnosed with depression, or very, very few people. Nobody knew I battled suicide. I laid in bed three nights in row with my Glock pistol in my hand going to shoot myself, and nobody talks about that. So, I wrote the book and it was very cathartic, it was really difficult to write it, but it was really cathartic at the same time. Because, if I can have that story, which is pretty extreme. It’s a pretty extreme story of violence and death and lying in bed with a gun in your hand. [00:17:00] [00:17:30] At another incident I went to a party, a 30th birthday party and I actually stood outside on the balcony on the 24th floor of a uniblock on the Gold Coast smoking cigarettes, drunk, trying to find reasons to not jump off, actually trying to find the courage to jump off and I didn’t. All of that’s in there because I just think if men, and women, but if men can read this story, understand he can go from there and he can get to where I am now, at 47 and really happy. I’m in an amazing relationship, I’ve got two beautiful daughters, who I love to death, and 90% of the time life is amazing. Then, what I’m hoping to do is people can look at that and go, “Oh wow. If he can do it, then I can do it.” So just try and sort of get that stuff out there, out in the open. [00:18:00] The Dark Companion part, Stu, was suicide. So what I call my dark companion, was that suicidal thought. It was always there, it was there from … My dad, who I love to death, great guy. He’s one of the most highly decorated police for bravery in Australia still. He battled with it for many years. When I was pretty young, I remember I was about seven and I walked in … We had a shed where he worked on cars, that was his hobby. I went in there to help him one day and I heard him talking to himself. He said words to the effect of, “If this doesn’t get any better, I’ll blow my fucking head off.” That was the first time I’d heard … He didn’t say it to me, there was nothing, it was just bad timing. [00:18:30] So, it was always something that I realized was around. When I got to teenage years, I struggled a fair bit. When I was in the police, that was almost like a parachute. That was something that actually made life more bearable, because I knew if it gets too bad, that’s my parachute. I just pull that cord and away I go. Then, when I got to the point where I got really bad, because I didn’t have the courage to put my hand up and get help, that’s when it came with a crux. I had to look at myself and go, “Well, I either …” I didn’t have kids at the time. I had my parents, and friends, and those people of course. But, I had to look and go, “My dark companion was with me that whole way through the journey.” [00:19:00] It’s still there. It’s still there to the point where I’ve been fantastic for years then only a few weeks ago, I had a pretty dark couple of weeks. I’ve had a lot of things going on in my personal life. Some stuff that came up as a real challenge. And it’s amazing those thoughts are still there. But, I would never follow through on it now. And again, I think it’s something that some people have that and some people don’t.

Stu

Right. [00:19:30]

Shaun

And I don’t know why. I haven’t done enough research, but I don’t think everybody has those thoughts, but I think there are certain people who do. I think there’s people who will deal with depression and mental health with alcohol, sex addictions, gambling, drugs. I think suicide is another one of those coping things almost.

Stu

Right.

Shaun

Because, it’s a way to dull the pain. Does that make sense?

Guy

[00:20:00] Yeah, it totally does. What would be your advice or like where is the first step into changing this direction if you’re in that place? Looking back, what would you say the first step would be?

Shaun

[00:20:30] Just put your hand up, mate, is the first step, is actually to have the courage, and it does take courage, but have the courage to put your hand up and say, “I need some help.” So the analogy I use all the time is if you found a lump under your arm or whatever, you would go to the GP. You’d go to your doctor and say, “Hey, I’m not sure what this is. Can you help me with it.” And that would actually be the first step I’d tell anybody to take. What we do with mental health, because there’s such a stigma around it, and because for so long we’ve been conditioned, especially men are conditioned. Boys don’t cry. You’ve got to man up. You’ve got to be tough. [00:21:00] Just put your hand up and ask for help because it’s like any other illness or injury, if you get it early you can turn it around easily and quite quickly. I do a lot of work with police and soldiers and that now with PTSD, mental health and it’s amazing. Had a chat to a guy the other day whose not in Brisbane; he’s on the other side of the country. I chatted to him for about 30 minutes. I don’t know him, and at the end of that chat he sent me this message just going, “Wow, thanks so much.” He hasn’t read my book. He’s just bought my book and he’s like, “Thanks so much for what you’re doing. He said, mate, I feel so much better just after that 30 minute chat to understand what I’m going through is normal. I’m not the only person.” [00:21:30] That first step is just putting your hand up and understanding, unfortunately, it’s just a normal thing. Stu: Is it much easier for now for the guys in the forces to be able to put their hand up and receive help?

Shaun

[00:22:00] Yes, Stu. I think it is. It’s definitely a lot better than when I was there. I still think there’s a long way to go because there’s still … You’ve got guys my age or you know coming close to 50 who’ve been in the police for 30 years. Some of them from what you were saying before, Guy, are desensitized. There is still that stigma of well you’re weak. It’s getting a lot better, a hell of a lot better, but there’s also … The other part is you’ve got guys there who are probably struggling really bad themselves and if they admit that someone could be affected then they’ve got to look at themselves. It’s a lot easier to deflect that back and go, “Well, you’re weak.”

Stu

Right.

Shaun

Because then you don’t have to look at your own backyard.

Guy

Yeah.

Stu

[00:22:30] Yeah, absolutely. And from a strategy perspective, what were the areas that you found perhaps most beneficial in working towards overcoming the issues?

Shaun

[00:23:00] Four very simple, practical things, mate, that I think are the key to mental health, not just for police and military, for anybody, for any man, any woman, even kids, is nutrition is number one and obviously you guys know I use 180 Nutrition. That’s how we met. Good nutrition, exercise, sleep and mindfulness or meditation. Those four things and the nutrition stuff for me is, and you guys have obviously talked about this on your podcast a lot. I’ve listened to a lot of your podcasts, about eating clean food. For me, if it didn’t have eyes or it didn’t grow somewhere, don’t eat it because the high sugars, high preservatives, chemicals, mess with your brain. That’s part of it. [00:23:30] Exercise, the second part, is just to get out and move in the sun, get vitamin D. The more you move the more your body produces dopamine. Therefore, it’s that feel-good drug. That combats it, and sleep is huge. I was watching a doco yesterday talking about obesity in New Zealand and they’re now looking at sleep going, “Sleep is as important for weight loss and health and fitness as nutrition and more important than exercise.”

Stu

Right.

Shaun

Because if your body is not … For me, I worked all night work-

Guy

Yeah, right.

Shaun

[00:24:00] Actually, I’ll get back to that in a minute. So, your sleep is so important and then you go to your mindfulness and meditation. That stuff, if somebody said to me 15 years ago, “You should meditate,” I won’t use the language I would use, but it wouldn’t have been positive. It would have been, you know, sure I’ll sit in a caftan on a mountain somewhere. It would have just seemed ridiculous to me. Now I understand that your mind just spins with all the crap we come up with. When you wake up at 2:00 in the morning and your mind is spinning about what you need to do. We all have it right. [00:24:30] If you can practice that mindfulness and meditation, and I’m not perfect at it by any means, but you learn how to control the thoughts and the simplest explanation I can give is your real answers are in your heart. That’s how I look at it. Your real answers are your gut instincts, your heart, your intuition, whatever you call it. All the BS is in your head. That’s the stuff we just make up. We spend 99% of our lives trying to work it out in your head, not your heart. We’ve got it all back to front. When you meditate and you can calm your mind and quiet your mind, that’s when you can actually tap into your heart and what really is the best place for you to make your choices.

Stu

Got it.

Shaun

[00:25:00] So you run through those four, when you look at a place in the military, whatever, but you look at anyone, most people’s nutrition is pretty bad. It’s heaps of sugar, heaps of energy drinks and processed food and food-like substances. It’s not food. It’s all processed. There’s no nutritional value. Most people do very little exercise or if they do it’s under duress. They don’t enjoy it. Sleep is normally something that we just throw away because we don’t think it’s that necessary and most people would never practice mindfulness. So, no wonder we’ve got the mental health stuff we do. [00:25:30]

Stu

[00:26:00] Yeah, look, you know what, I am shocked but not shocked at your answer. Shocked in the sense that I was expecting you to say self help groups, chanting, neural feedback, some environmental stimuli somewhere. But when you think about it, of course it’s obvious. We are biological beings and it’s very easy to bombard ourselves with so many external highs, I guess, through sugar and adrenaline, caffeine, deprived by sleep because we’re on our devices and we’re all over the place, but those four things essentially are the blueprint for a happy life irrespective of where you are.

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Shaun

[00:26:30] That’s it, mate, and I think, Stu, once you’ve got those nailed, once you’ve nailed down eight hours of sleep a night, minimum, you know train at least four or five days a week, the nutrition is just like I said, clean food. Shop on the outside of the supermarket. Don’t shop in the middle because that’s where all the crap is. I gave up alcohol 18 months ago, 20 months ago. You don’t have to do that, but my personality is I know I’m 100 miles an hour. I’m zero or 100 so I never had two beers, I’d have 200 beers so I go I’ll just cut that out. It’s about what is important to you. Once you’ve got the machine working well, right? [00:27:00] This analogy the other day, your body and your mind is like the machine that drives everything in your life. It drives your income. If you had a machine in your life that produced your income, looked after your family, did all those things you would service it, maintain it. It would be the most pristine thing that you’d ever seen in your life because it would drive your whole life. We are the machine, and we’re the last thing we look after. [00:27:30] If you’ve got that machine right then you know listening to podcasts, reading books, doing self help and personal development stuff. Just Google it. There’s so much of it, then it’s easy to put it in practice. If you haven’t got the machine right- [crosstalk 00:27:32]

Stu

Well, that’s right and it is a great analogy too. It makes perfect sense.

Guy

[00:28:00] Totally, but you’d have to say as well though, guys, you still need to make the decision to want to do them things, and it’s like what drives that decision in the first place? Because we all know these things. You could probably stop … Well, I’d like to think you could stop a few people on the street and they’d say, “Oh, yeah. Sleep, makes sense.” But it’s the doing where we fall short. For you, Shaun, when you work with somebody one on one or when they come to you, what’s the point you can get them to tip the balance so they actually consciously want to do these things and actually take steps in that direction? Shaun: [00:28:30] Simplest thing in the world, Guy. It is the simplest thing in the world. Human beings are pain averse. We make all our decisions through pain aversion. Whatever is more painful, we’ll avoid. Like everybody goes we’re motivated and we’ve got this and that and that’s all great, but the reality is if it’s painful we don’t want to do it. Hence, the reason if you put your hand on a hot plate you’re physiologically, your limbic brain pulls your hand off before you think about it to save yourself. [00:29:00] It’s that same sort of neanderthal physiology that we have and so in your mind it’s less painful to be massively overweight, have poor self confidence, terrible relationships, whatever, sit on the couch and eat chips and drink soft drink all night. If that’s less painful than getting off your ass and going and exercising and eating well then you’ll stay on the couch. The only way that people change … I can’t motivate anyone to do anything. I can pump you up, and I can spend half an hour on the phone with someone and you can get off there and be double high fiving yourself and just think the world’s the best place ever and then at 4 o’clock tomorrow morning when your alarm goes off I’m not there next to you pumping you up, it’s not going to happen. [00:29:30] People need to understand that if you want to live an amazing life you’ve got to put in the effort, and it’s a consistent and constant lifestyle choice. It’s not a 30 day challenge. It’s none of that sort of stuff, because it’s not sustainable. The pain of it is, for me obviously lying in bed with a pistol in my hand it was pretty easy to choose which pain I was going to have. Now coming through my life for the last 15 years, still I make that choice all the time. I set my alarm for 4:00, turn it off wake up at 25 past 4:00. [inaudible 00:29:56] I train crossfit. I wake up and I was like, “I don’t want to go. That’s the last thing I want to do.” [00:30:00] I had to have a negotiation with myself of get out of bed, get out of bed. I got up walked out, went training and now I feel fantastic. It would have been so easy. I was on a plane yesterday, I spent four hours, two hour flight in the morning, two hour flight in the afternoon, worked all day, didn’t get home until reasonably late so I had all the excuses. I’m like if I want to be fit, healthy, happy, I’ve got to make the choice. It would have been more painful for me not to do it now as in during my day I wouldn’t feel as good, but it’s a hard choice still. [00:30:30] Stu: Yes, yeah. You mentioned that you went through a little bit of a rough period a couple of weeks ago. Given the fact that you are dialed into your nutrition, your exercise, your sleep and your meditation, what methods do you use to pull yourself out of that then? Shaun: [00:31:00] [00:31:30] Yeah, sure, mate. One thing is to explain how I got into it. The way I got into it in the first place was, you know everyone is super busy, heaps of things going on and it’s a challenge that I’m divorced from five years ago, so having a bit of a challenge with my ex wife around shared parenting with my kids and my two daughters I love to death, and they’re actually in the front of my book I dedicated the book to them, and I say that literally they saved my life. When my daughter was born in 2005 I had been out of the police three years and I’d done a little bit of work but not much and I was still pretty self destructive. When she was born I remember looking at her in the hospital and just thinking, “Holy shit, if this human being now relies on me I need to change who I am. I’ve just got to be the best version of me and be the best man, best father I can be or I’m going to commit her to a life of her own crap.” [00:32:00] The two girls mean so much to me, there was all the pressure on me around that, around work, there’s a whole lot of stuff and my nutrition was still pretty good, my training slipped a bit, my sleep had slipped so when I’ve got in the hole, well Rach, my partner who you guys know is just an amazing human, she said to me one day, “You know, babe, you need to start looking after yourself, spend some more time on yourself.” And I’m like, “Yeah.” And she’s awesome for me because she goes, “You can’t be teaching people this shit and then not walking your talk.” I’m like, “Yeah, you’re right.” Still human. We’re all fallible. I don’t profess to be perfect. [00:32:30] What I actually did, Stu, for that is actually I sat down and went natural antidepressants. I just Googled it. I came up with St. John’s Wort and B vitamin and I was like wow you know there’s probably a lot of that stuff that I’m not … My vitamin levels probably aren’t great and again it’s a chemical thing. I went to a nutritionist, who I know and she did my bloods and looked at them and went, “Yeah, you need more vitamin B. You need more vitamin C. You need this. You need that.” So I got that all sorted, back on track. [00:33:00] It’s to not discount the chemical imbalance side of mental health for people. It’s massive, and I don’t think we’ve got our heads around that as a society. We think go and talk to a psychologist or a counselor and that’s all great, and I think that’s fantastic, but again if the machine isn’t working efficiently it doesn’t matter what you put into it; it’s not going to work. Guy : [00:33:30] Yeah, totally, and there’s a lot of research coming out as well, Shaun. You’re probably familiar with gut health itself and I know mood and depression and whatever that might be as well. Because we had a good friend of ours Dave O’Brien on the podcast a little while back, and he’s huge on that topic, absolutely huge. Shaun: [00:34:00] Yeah, I listened to that one. There’s [inaudible 00:33:37] recently. He might have talked about it I can’t remember, about leaky gut. You know they talk about leaky gut. There’s a link to leaky gut to leaky brain. They’re talking about leaky brain now as a sort of similar sort of thing and it’s because of your gut microbiomes and that sort of thing. That’s massive. To me, it’s so important and we’ve go back 15 years again when I left the police, we didn’t have Google. It didn’t exist as bizarre as that sounds. 16 years ago it didn’t exist. Now you just sit down and type in there “gut health.” Type in whatever. I just feel there’s no excuse these days to not be living a new best version because the information is right in front of you.

Stu

Absolutely.

Guy

[00:34:30] Yeah, ignorance is a choice. You’ve just got to be a bit of a detective as well. But saying that, it is easy to get overwhelmed by the amount of information and go, “Shit, where do I start first?” All of a sudden that can take its toll. Having somebody like yourself that’s been through it and can sit someone down and go, “Right, this is what you need to do. This is how it works,” and actually give a structure and direction to the information is priceless. Shaun: [00:35:00] I’ve written the first book, then I’ve written a second one that I’ve edited that’s just sitting waiting that I’ll publish at some point. It doesn’t feel right at the moment. Which is about specifically mental health inoculation and whatever for police and military and first responders, but it’s general. Then I’m half way through a third one that’s about men’s mental health. All those things, there are so many resources out there for someone like me who’s lived a pretty up and down journey to put all that information into a box, into a book that I can wrap a bow around and go there read that. There’s some great stuff. That’s enough for people to get started. I think to your point, just do something. If you’re diet’s not great then just cut sugar out for the next week. [00:35:30] I talked to someone yesterday who said, “Well, how’d you give up alcohol?” I’m amazed. People’s minds are blown when they hear that I’ve given up drinking alcohol. To me, I go wow isn’t it sad that it’s such a thing in our society that you go well how did you … First thing they obviously think I’m an alcoholic. The second thing I’ll joke and go, “Oh, look the magistrate told me I had to.” Then they look at me and wonder if I’m serious. But to me I gave it up for a month and then I gave it up for three months, then I gave it up for six months and then it was done. Small chunks is the answer.

Guy

Yeah. [00:36:00]

Stu

Absolutely.

Guy

Fantastic.

Stu

Recognizing change. We always say if you want to change something or if you want change then you actually have to change something. These things don’t happen ordinarily if you don’t change anything in your life at all.

Shaun

That’s right.

Stu

That’s interesting. I had a question as well, Shaun, around the Strong Life Project.

Shaun

Yeah. [00:36:30]

Stu

I’ve got a question down here. I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit about what that actually is.

Shaun

[00:37:00] Sure. So, the Strong Life project is my business. That’s my website and everything at the moment. That STRONG stands for living with Strength, Tenacity, Resilience, Optimism, Nurturing and Generosity. It’s a bit of a plan if you like. Strength to do what you know you need to do, make the decisions about whatever. Tenacity to keep going when it’s tough. Resilience to get up when you’re knocked down. The optimism to know things can always improve. Nurturing is about nurturing yourself and the people around you and generosity is that giving back, paying it forward sort of thing. [00:37:30] The Strong Life is really based just around helping people with mental health, with their confidence, with dealing with stress, with dealing with pressures, and you know I do my own podcast on there. I’m up to nearly 400 episodes. Doing them daily for the last … It’s probably 10 or 12 minutes a day so I’ve done a daily podcast for the last 400 days. I write blog articles on there and there’s stuff on there about to do keynote speaking and workshop things. I’m working on all sorts of stuff. It’s the one-stop shop to sort of get the information that we’re talking about so people can go to one place and understand this is the guy, and I would hope because of my story as a police officer and all that and because I got to such a dark place, people can look at that and go, “Wow.” Like I said earlier, “If that guy can turn it around, I can.” [00:38:00] That ticks the box. When I look back, through my life ironically I think it’s quite funny, in a negative sense, when I look through the challenges I’ve come through in my life. My mum and dad were divorced and I struggled with my confidence when I was a teenager and then the police stuff and then going through my own divorce and handling that process and handling the process of shared parenting with my daughters and a new relationship in that, leaving the police not knowing what I was going to do for a career. I had no idea. [00:38:30] For the last 15 years I worked in a corporate career in real estate and built that. With all these things I’ve done, and I’ve made some pretty bad choices in some of them so there’s been a lot of challenges, but all that information means anybody especially men, but women equally, anybody can probably read my story and know what it’s about and relate some part of what they’re going through to it. To me it’s that connection. People need to know you and trust you and understand what your motivation is and that you actually care. Then they’ll listen. That’s what the Strong Life is just all about. [00:39:00]

Stu

Fantastic and would that be, perhaps, one of the places that you would start then when you said if you need help, reach out. Could we dive into that and we’d be guided as to what we need to do next, perhaps, to start our journey? Shaun: [00:39:30] Yeah, definitely. Absolutely, Stuart. You know, 380 podcasts, what they come up out of is people literally, conversations I have, things I say, videos or whatever stimulus. I’ve got a list of 15 or 20 that’s always evolving. If I see something … A couple of days ago I saw one and there was an ex commando soldier from Afghanistan who committed suicide, unfortunately and that’s a huge problem with have in Australia. I did a podcast that day on the stigma around PTSD and reaching out, getting help and you literally just go on there and scroll through until the heading pops up and grabs people. There’s so much of that information, that, books, blogs, all those sort of things. You can be on that website for a month before you ran out of information. [00:40:00]

Guy

Do you do one on one coaching as well, Shaun? Shaun: [00:40:30] I do, Guy. Not a lot, because just by virtue of time, but I do and I encourage people if they are having struggles to shoot me a Facebook message or get on my website, send me an email. I’ll answer those, definitely. It’s also a bit of tough love. If somebody sends me an email. I’ve had a few people reach out to me since the book was launched and I’ll answer them and say, “Listen, are you doing this? Are you doing that? Are you doing that?” Those four things that we talked about. If their answer is no I go, “Go and do that and then come back to me because there’s no point in me doing anything until you get your stuff squared away.” People can absolutely reach out to me one on one.

Guy

Yeah, perfect, mate.

Stu

Brilliant.

Guy

Next question, moving on, what is your daily routine look like? You mentioned about the alarm clock going off at 4:00 am. I’m curious to know what you fit in it. [00:41:00] Shaun: [00:41:30] My day normally is up at 4:00. I wake up at 4:00. Alarm goes off 4:00 every morning, or probably five or six mornings a week. Crossfit at 5:00. I get up at 4:00 and just normally have a coffee and just chill out. I normally look at Facebook. For me, I don’t waste a lot of time on social media, but I use it, and that’s probably another really good tool for people. Social media, my Facebook feed is full of personal development things, educational stuff. I think it’s brilliant for that. I’ll skim through that, go and train, and then normally I finish training, there’s three or four guys I train with, we’ll go and have a coffee then. So I’ll have two coffees before about 7:00. [00:42:00] Then into my day and that will be meetings. That will be working on it could be program stuff, it could be my keynotes, can be talking to people, any one of a number of things through until probably, if I’ve got my girls you know I pick them up normally about 5:00 from after school care, 4:30 from after school care and then spend time with them. If I don’t have them then it’s very much about still working and that’s the challenge because my work is my passion, and I love it so therefore you’ve got to be really careful because it can end up being your whole life. Then at night Rachel will I will just sort of chill out and spend a bit of time together. We might watch maybe an hour of TV sort of towards the end just to chill and disconnect. Then I’m normally in bed by 8:30. [inaudible 00:42:23] [00:42:30] Again, that’s that discipline thing. If I’m going to get up at 4:00, I aim to get to bed at 8:00, but if I’m going to get up at 4:00 in the morning then I’ve got to be in bed at 8:00, 8:30 at the latest to get that sleep I need. Then the days I don’t train, the days where I rest then I don’t set an alarm. But I’ll still go to bed at 8:30 and [crosstalk 00:42:47].

Stu

[00:43:00] Your quality of sleep? You said that, obviously, in your earlier days I would imagine you would have had a barrage of mental chatter that you just can’t turn off. You’ve worked hard. Is that primarily through meditation to get I guess strategies to deal to that? Shaun: [00:43:30] Yeah, Stu, that’s part of it. My meditation still isn’t perfect by any means. And you know I go through fits and starts as we all do. To me it’s actually the way I set my day up, helps my sleep. It’s again, a lot of people go home and have a glass of wine at night. That’s full of sugar, that’s full of … Even though it’s a depressant it’s still a stimulant. I don’t drink coffee after 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon. Because that will affect my sleep. I don’t eat a high processed carb diet at night because that again pumps your body full of sugars and insulin dumps. A lot of it again is that physiological chemical part for me. But I have blacked out curtains the room [inaudible 00:43:43]. I don’t have a TV. I think watching TV in your bedroom is just crazy because you’re so stimulated. [00:44:00] I endeavor to never look at my phone, but I can’t say I do that 100% of the time. It’s all those things. It’s again just the habits. If you put the good habit in, and it’s the pain thing. When I go to pick up my phone I actually say to myself, if you get six hours sleep and you feel like shit all day tomorrow, is it worth checking Facebook one more time? I go, “No.” So I don’t do it. It’s literally, you’ve almost got to be your own conscience. And literally have those conversations in your head as bizarre as it sounds. Stu: [00:44:30] [00:45:00] I think so, and understanding the importance of a routine for sleep as well. We’ve all got different triggers that work, and we’ve also got the buttons that we know will send us in the opposite direction. I think there’s a recognition of that and just I guess visualizing your routine every single night and working towards doing that. I know I’m a bugger for that. Seriously, I’m a routine driven human and if I do it right I get a great night sleep. If I don’t then in the morning I think, “What did I do wrong?” And I’ve always done something wrong if that’s the case.

Shaun

The other thing that I didn’t mention is actually something that Rach taught me, is I’ll have a shower an hour or so before bed just to literally clean the shit off you from the day. As out there, hippie that sounds it actually works because if you’re utilizing it to go, you’re actually just washing the crap off for the day so you can be calm and not be stressed about something. If you use it as that sort of process. There’s just a mental trigger again to switch off, it’s brilliant. [00:45:30] Stu: That’s right, and there’s science to support the temperature fluctuations in your body as well after you’ve had that shower. Absolutely, yeah. Another plus. Another thumbs up.

Guy

[00:46:00] I like it. Shaun, what I want to ask you as well, mate, is what your nutrition looks like during the day? What would you eat? I raise it as well because one of the things we tend to hear a lot is I don’t have time. Even when I worked as a fitness trainer, when I was doing one on ones everyone was like, “I’m busy. I don’t have time.” Then they would reach for crap during the day and say, “Oh, maybe tomorrow.” Clearly, you’re a busy man so what do you do and how do you do it? Shaun: [00:46:30] I’ll tell you. Give me on sec. Something I heard the other day that I love, if you don’t have time for nutrition now make time for disease later, make time for ill health later. Which I love. You either make time for your health now or make time for it later because it’s going to be rubbish. You’ll be in hospital. You’ll have low quality of life. I thought, “Wow, that’s a pretty good motivator. It’s that pain thing.” It seems a bit less painful to actually get your stuff together today if you’re potentially going to have your foot amputated from type 2 diabetes in 10 years’ time. That’s the motivator. [00:47:00] [00:47:30] For me it’s clean, man and I’m like you, Stu, I’m a creature of habit especially food. I’ve trained myself to … I don’t use food emotionally. I’m not an emotional eater. I look at it as fool. Food is just pure fuel. It took me years to get that, but I wake up in the morning. I’ll sometimes have a coffee, sometimes not before training, come home after training and I’ll have a protein shake, 180, of course. 180 Nutrition protein. A protein shake with a banana, normally [inaudible 00:47:11]. And then some almonds, maybe 15 or 20 almonds, maybe mid morning then lunch and I don’t do food prep very often. I travel a lot. I’m on the road a lot. I’ll go and just eat clean things. It’s just like chicken salads or lamb salad. It’s simple stuff. No breads. No processed foods. No crap. It’s just, again, if it had eyes I eat it. If it grew somewhere I eat it. If it’s been processed at all I don’t. So bread for me, we still process wheat into bread so I don’t eat it. It will be chicken salad, simple things. [00:48:00] [00:48:30] If I’m really struggling, if I’m on the move and it’s 2:30 in the afternoon and I haven’t eaten since 10:00 and I know I’m blood sugar susceptible so I get hangry. I’ll start to get hangry and I’ll go, “Oh, shit. I’ve got to eat.” I’ll have a kebab for instance. It doesn’t sound so healthy. The wrap is pretty good. The meat is not too bad, and it’s salad. Even though we think of a dodgy kebab at 4:00 in the morning if you have a kebab with no sauce or anything on it that’s still pretty clean. If you go to Subway for instance, I went with the girls, they were on me the other day, “Oh, can we go to Subway, Dad?” I went to Subway and I got one of those salads. It was just a bowl with chicken and all the salad in it. It was like $10. As I was eating it I was like, “Wow, this is great.” I didn’t realize they did this sort of stuff. I’ll do that. Mid afternoon, I might have another protein drink or often I don’t eat anything then because I just get caught up and then dinner’s always salmon, chicken, steak and veggies. Just such simple stuff, beautiful.

Stu

[00:49:00] That’s right. Once you understand, and I guess get to recognize the foods that will hold you back it’s very easy to find great choices almost everywhere. You can go into almost any restaurant and get protein and veggies.

Shaun

That’s it, mate. [crosstalk 00:49:07]

Stu

Same with cafes as well. Salad and protein for lunch. Shaun: [00:49:30] It’s easy, Stu, and the funny thing, I had, my daughters and I, they’re 12 and nine, great kids. I went to a shopping center the other day and that was a long story, but in the end they said, “Oh, can we get a slushie from [Mackers 00:49:23]?” They’d been really good [inaudible 00:49:28] and my youngest one was like, “Oh, you know we did this.” I said, “Yeah, righto.” We went there and I bought it, and mate, I was actually really, it was a couple of months ago. I was pretty shocked by it. They bought this massive thing and I think it was like $1 each or something and I looked at it and thought, “Wow.” So we sat down and I’m thinking to myself, “How do I actually educate them?” Because me going, “That’s no good for you.” They’re going to go, “Whatever, Dad. You’re an idiot.” They aren’t going to listen. [00:50:00] [00:50:30] I Googled it and it said there’s between 15 and 30 teaspoons of sugar in a slushie. I erred on the side of caution and said 30, of course, and I said to the girls. There’s effectively, you know, 30 teaspoons of sugar, and my youngest one goes, “Oh, that’s why it tastes so great.” My oldest girl [inaudible 00:50:09] she’s like [inaudible 00:50:10]. I said, “Honey, would you get a glass of water and put 30 teaspoons of sugar?” She said, “Oh, that’s disgusting.” I said, “Well, that’s what you’re drinking.” They said, “Oh, can we throw it out?” I said, “Yeah, sure you can.” They still love sugar. They still ask for slushies, but same for us is educate yourself on what you’re eating. They thought it was amazing, until they understood what was in it. Now it hasn’t changed their behavior 100%. Stu: [00:51:00] That’s right, and you’re so right as well. I’ve got three daughters. I’ve got twins coming up to nine and I’ve got a 12 year old as well. I’m in a similar boat to you. I always liken the sugar analogy to those little sugar sachets that you get in the cafes. Every now and again we’ll go and get a coffee and they’ll fiddle around with these sugar sachets. I’ll say to them, “Right. You want this? Well, there are 10 sachets in there. Would you put 10 sachets into your water or your coke?” “No, of course not.” Well that’s what you’re doing. They went out the other day and they went to the shops and brought back this yogurt because we asked them to do a bit of shopping for us and they got sweetened version, and I said right the sweetened do this, all this sugar. Of course, they get it because they go oh wow that’s so much sugar. It’s really just an awareness I think. [00:51:30]

Shaun

[00:52:00] It’s also to understand for people, when you’re looking at nutrition, it’s emotional. Because sugar, they look at now and they think that sugar is as addictive as heroin or cocaine in your brain. You need that sugar hit. Hence, the reason we’re programmed from a young age when you walk … It’s not a surprise, they put all the chocolate bars and all the crap at the checkout of the supermarket. Because your body sees it and goes, and again we’ve evolved so far as humans, but we still are driven by that lizard, limbic brain that is so basic. It goes that we need that to survive because we need a level of glucose to survive. I should eat that now because I might not be able to get it later. We’ve got this modern lifestyle where food is everywhere, but our brains still operate like we’re cavemen where we might not see another source of food for three days. It’s understanding simple things like that then you go well if I don’t eat it now in 10 minutes’ time I’m probably not going to care. If I do eat it now in 10 minutes’ time again I’m not going to care, but I’m going to have a massive insulin dump. [00:52:30]

Stu

Yeah, totally. Absolutely right.

Guy

Love it. Love it. So, Shaun, a couple of questions to wrap up the show, mate that I always ask. One is what are your nonnegotiables to be the best version of yourself?

Shaun

[00:53:00] Yeah, integrity, mate, is my number one nonnegotiable. Must have integrity. For me I have to walk my talk. If I’m going to tell other people what to do and teach other people what to do then I’ve got to do it myself. That’s hence not drinking alcohol and the example I used when I spoke to someone yesterday. They said, “You could still have a couple of beers.” I said, “Yeah, I could. But if I’m telling people to eat well, watch your nutrition, blah blah blah.” And then a photo pops up on Facebook of me at 2 o’clock in the morning dancing around the nightclub, then there’s no integrity. [00:53:30] Nonnegotiable is integrity and the other thing is being emotionally connected. As much as I possibly can with anybody in my life, I’m emotionally connected. I live with a bit of a mantra. I go if I died tomorrow do the people in my life that matter to me, know how much they matter to me? I can put my hand on my heart and say yeah, you know my parents, my family, the girls, my friends, the people I work with … I’m no longer afraid to … Something I talk about in the book is the mask. Like in there’s a mask that we all wear and I think men wear especially. We have this tough exterior, don’t give a shit, whatever else. We don’t talk about our emotions. [00:54:00] As much as I possibly succeed at it I try not to wear that mask. I’d say 90% of the time I never wear it. I’m just open with people because if you have integrity and you’re emotionally connected, the rest of your life takes care of itself.

Guy

Love it.

Stu

Brilliant.

Guy

And, Shaun, what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Shaun

It’s the [inaudible 00:54:15] definition of insanity. It’s probably my favorite, to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result is insanity.

Guy

Which is an easy trap to fall into.

Stu

So very true.

Shaun

It’s very easy. [00:54:30]

Guy

Brilliant, mate, brilliant. So, for everyone listening to this, if they want to know more is it thestronglifeproject.com.au? Is that correct?

Shaun

.com, so it’s thestronglifeproject.com or my podcast is obviously on iTunes. Just The Strong Life Project and Shaun O’Gorman on Instagram, but if you go to thestronglifeproject.com then you’ll find all the links are on there. Everything is on there. The book’s on there. The book’s on Amazon. You can get that through there. I should have showed you that earlier. I’ll have to send you guys a copy, I don’t think, you haven’t got a copy have you? [00:55:00]

Guy

No, no.

Shaun

[00:55:30] Mate I’ll email you both a copy, email, I’ll mail you a copy. That’s actually ironically, that photo that’s on the front there, I don’t know how well you can see it, it’s actually a photo of me in 1992. It was just the strangest thing. When the book came out my dad was the president of the police union here and they wanted someone to do a photo shoot and they used these posters about without us you’re on your own for the police union and somebody sent me that as I was in the middle of writing my book and said are we still using that poster? I contacted some guys I still know and got that. It’s quite all right.

Stu

Perfect. [crosstalk 00:55:37]

Shaun

That’s all on the website as well.

Guy

Brilliant. Brilliant. Well, Shaun, thank you so much for coming on the show, mate. That was awesome. That was simply awesome, and I really appreciate your honesty and your integrity and getting your message out to the world, and I’m glad that we could help share it to more listeners for you, mate.

Shaun

[00:56:00] [00:56:30] Good on you, boys. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. I love what you guys are doing and I think very similar in the space I’m in. You’re doing that in your own way through 180 and what you’re doing with that and the thing for me, and obviously you guys don’t talk about yourselves very much, but I’ve known you both for a long time and I know you guys are absolutely men of integrity. That’s the thing is what you guys do and what you deliver to people I think’s fantastic. 180 nutrition is not just products. Right? There’s a whole ethos and there’s a whole lot of emotion and love and integrity and commitment behind that. I think it’s just nice for your listeners to hear that, that you guys in your humility no doubt probably don’t talk about it that often. But from me to you, mate, thank you very much for what you guys both do. I think it’s amazing and I’ve really enjoyed being on the podcast. I appreciate it.

Guy

Likewise.

Stu

Much appreciated, mate. Appreciate it very much. Thank you.

Guy

Thank you, boys.

Shaun

Good on you, guys.

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