Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.
Guy: This week welcome to the show Josh Sparks. Josh has spent the past 14 years in high growth leadership roles as CEO of sass & bide, Managing Director with Urban Outfitters Inc, and CEO of Thom Browne New York.
As a lifelong health and fitness enthusiast, and with five years of powerfully personal experience with ancestral health protocols, Josh was consistently astounded at the lack of any authentically healthy dining in top retail centres around the world. Recognizing the transformational potential for a health and wellness brand founded on evidence based dietary principles, and excited by the opportunity to genuinely enhance how customers look, feel and perform, Josh brought together his many years of professional experience and personal passion to create THR1VE.
Audio Version
Questions we ask in this episode:
- What are the main motivations behind the food industry? Profit? Wellness?
- How do we take people from thinking about wellness to actually empowering them and taking action?
- Has the word ‘paleo’ had it’s day? Where do you see the nutritional and health/wellness trends going?
- You’re in good shape. What are your fat loss tips for the time poor?
- Who inspires you in the health & wellness circles?
Get More Of Josh Sparks
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Full Transcript
Guy
[00:00:30] Hey, this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition and welcome to another episode of the Health Sessions where, of course, we connect with leading global health and wellness experts to share the best and the latest science and thinking, empowering people and ourselves to turn and health and lives around. This week, we welcome back to the show the awesome Josh Sparks who is the founder of THR1VE. It was always a pleasure getting Josh back on the show and we get into some fantastic topics today including, where is the food industry and where is it going?
[00:01:00] Are we seeing any improvements … Josh is in the firing line every single day with his THR1VE cafes … What are the main motivations behind the food industry and world? Is it profit, is it wellness and why we have to be proactive and educate ourselves and know exactly what’s going on so we can make better nutritional food and health choices moving forward. Josh also shares his top tips for fat loss and what he’s discovered over the years and what he does and how he maintains his shape. Josh is the same age as me and, which is 43, I think, too and he’s in fantastic condition, he looks after his health tremendously.
[00:01:30] We also get into his recent discoveries on longevity and what he did with Dr. John Hart, who was a fellow guest on the podcast as well. We get into that topic and we also get into a whole lot more including Josh’s ready-made meals and what he’s doing with THR1VE and making actually good nutrition much more accessible for people that are on a budget and have difficulty with time on their hands, which is a lot of us. No doubt, you’re gonna enjoy today’s episode.
[00:02:00] I just wanted to mention as well guys, if you do listen to our podcast on a regular basis through iTunes, please leave us a review. It takes two minutes to do, to say whatever you need to, whatever is honest, hopefully positive. If these shows are actually helping you and you get a lot out of them, a simple review, subscribe and a five star, goes a long way to helping us get the message out for other people that are trying to make the changes and find this content online, so that would be awesome. Anyway, let’s go over to Josh Sparks. This one’s a pillar.
Hi, this is Guy Lawrence, I’m joined with Stuart Cook as always. I’ll say good afternoon Stu.
Stu
Hello mate, how are you?
Guy
Awesome man and out fantastic guest today is Josh Sparks. Josh welcome back to the show.
Josh
Thank you so much for having me back, Gug and Stu.
Guy
[00:02:30] Josh, I got to say mate, you’ve made the next level ’cause you have now returned to the podcast. You’ve made like the elite few that have come on the podcast more than once.
Josh
That’s actually been my ambition, that’s been my dream. We’ve got a little jar of awesome up there, so I’m gonna write a note and put it in the jar of awesome.
Guy
Yeah, totally man, totally. Well, it’s been a while, I think it’s like two years almost, so it goes quickly, absolutely [crosstalk 00:02:48]
Josh
It’s flown by. I haven’t seen you guys in about that time, but it feels like not that long ago we were together doing the THR1VE conference on the [crosstalk 00:02:57]
Guy
You think? [00:03:00]
Josh
Mate, you’re looking fantastic. You like reverse aging or something, I don’t know. \
Stu
There you go, that was a big royal [inaudible 00:03:06] Take that mask off, Guy and we can get into [crosstalk 00:03:12] okay?
Guy
Yeah [crosstalk 00:03:13]
Stu
Mission Impossible [crosstalk 00:03:14]
Guy
[00:03:30] I know, I know. Josh, just in case … I ask everyone on the podcast this question. I don’t think I actually asked it to you last time you came on. Just in case our listeners haven’t been listening for the last two years, which is probably quite a few of them, if a complete stranger stopped you on the street and asked you what you did for a living, what would you say?
Josh
[00:04:00] Oh wow, well, I would say that I’m the founder and CEO of THR1VE, which has been in my life for the last four and a half years or so. I’ve had an interesting journey pre-THR1VE. I spent 15 years building fashion labels of all things in Sydney and in New York and then in Philadelphia. It’s been a long and winding road, always focused on consumers. I’ve never done business to business, always business to consumer. I feel like I’m still selling to the same people, I’m just not selling them superficial surface stuff anymore. I’m selling them nutrition to actually change them from the inside out, rather than the reverse.
Guy
Yeah, I was gonna say, if they asked you what THR1VE was, what would you say then?
Josh
[00:04:30] Well, our little tagline is extraordinary health, made deliciously simple. It actually kind of is a good summary. What we’re trying to do is take the best of high performance nutrition, the best of nutrition science, match it up with our chefs to make it delicious, ’cause if it’s not, there’s not really much point and then make it as simple as possible. By that, we mean, accessible in terms that you can get it wherever you are, whenever you want and not crazy prices, not café restaurant prices, trying to make it available to as many Australians as we can.
Guy
[00:05:00] Got it. Last question before we get into the meat of it as well. Obviously we’ve known you for a while Josh, and you look after yourself, you’re healthy, we’re all the similar age. Was that there, pre-THR1VE, before THR1VE, when you were working in the fashion industry as well? Or did you have [crosstalk 00:05:01] epiphanies along the way around health and nutrition?
Josh
[00:05:30] Well, I’ve definitely changed my attitude to recreational drug use. No, I think that the fashion industry is not the healthiest industry in the world and I’m sure there’s saints in the industry that manage to avoid all temptation. It was a fun industry, it was a great place to spend my 20s and the first few years of my 30s, but ultimately, I think I wasn’t … I just wasn’t anywhere near as healthy as I am now. I also thought back then you could steer the ship through training, so it doesn’t matter what you eat, it doesn’t matter how stressed you get, doesn’t matter how little sleep you get, as long as you’re training hard enough, you’ll be okay. [00:06:00] Of course, by my mid-30s as has happened with so many of us, that philosophy kind of ran out of steam. It just wasn’t sort of working the way I though it should, so I discovered high performance nutrition and feel … I mean it’s such a cliché to say you feel 30 when you’re 43, but I really do feel better than I did, at 30. It’s a nice thing.
Guy
It’s a brilliant thing. I’m happy to say I feel the same way, hands down. I’m not sure about Stu, but …
Stu
When you say you feel the same way, Guy, what, you feel 40 now that you are 40? What do you mean by that? Guy: Exactly, exactly.
Josh
You’re aligned, perfectly aligned.
Stu
[00:06:30] Exactly right, the yin and the yang. I wanted just to ask you, Josh, about the food industry. You guys have been around … Did you say, was it four, four and a half years in THR1VE now?
Josh
Yeah, four and a half years.
Stu
What have you seen happening in that space, during that particular time?
Josh
[00:07:00] It’s a great question. There’s been a lot of change over the last four and a half years. I think a fair chunk of it has been fairly superficial, unfortunately. I think there’s a lot of people talking about health now. My fear is that it’s … You know, remember like 10, 15 years ago it was all about greenwashing, when the environmental movement were coming out and saying, just don’t believe all the hype that the corporates are pushing out when they’re talking about how green they are. It’s just window dressing, it’s a marketing exercise, et cetera, et cetera. [00:07:30] I remember Chevron at that point, the largest contributor to carbon output in the world had a whole run of green ads about how they’d invested in some solar panels. I think it’s great that they’re investing in solar panels, but when it’s 1% of their business … My numbers may be off and I don’t mean to belittle Chevron, but just that idea of corporates grabbing a hold of something that, for us, it’s our passion. It’s what we live for, it’s everything we’re trying to deliver to our customers and we take it really seriously and what you guys are doing, total authenticity in the product. I mean it is exactly … it delivers exactly as advertised. You’ve done so much work in creating a real food product, when others are creating a very processed product and trying to compete in the same space. [00:08:00] [00:08:30] We do the same thing with our menu. I think when we walk through shopping centers or we’re perusing media and we’re seeing everyone talking about health, I think it’s great. On one hand, it’s fantastic because it’s raising awareness and people are becoming more aware of the fact that nutrition is such a powerful lever to pull, when you’re trying to improve your health and wellness. On the flip side, I really hope that all of us, collectively, can work towards educating the customer, that because someone describes it as healthy, doesn’t necessarily make it so and really try to simplify, well, what are those follow up questions? You know, what should you be asking, to scratch the surface a bit and determine whether there’s real substance or whether it’s all just [style 00:08:42].
Stu
Interesting.
Guy
[00:09:00] Yeah, and the thing that brings to mind, Josh, as well, within the food courts where you see where THR1VE are in, they’ve been in there, four and a half years now. Is that making other food courts raise their standards of the other businesses around yours? Or are people still just, I guess, led by what they believe to be around food and then don’t care and will walk straight into Mackers and just, you know, plow into the thick shakes and Big Mac [crosstalk 00:09:15] Josh: [00:09:30] Yeah, that’s really interesting to think about. I think that we’re … We’re certainly seeing a lot more competition. Some of it really good, some of it more along the lines of that veneer of health and wellness, but not necessarily delivering much in the way of substance. There’s certainly been an effort on the part of, both those who consider it really important and are authentic about how they’re pursuing it, and also those who aren’t really and are being a bit cynical but want to whack some health claims on some products that aren’t really genuinely healthy. We’ve certainly seen the talk round health increase dramatically in food court environments, airports, high traffic retail malls, that kind of stuff. [00:10:00] [00:10:30] The landlords really want us to expand much faster than we are. They’re coming to us and saying, “Look, our customer wants a THR1VE, and if we can’t get THR1VE, we’ll find someone like you.” There’s certainly a desire on the customer’s part to eat better and that’s translated into landlord’s seeking out brands who are doing it. There are a couple who are doing a really good job, you know, that I would consider genuine competitors for us. The vast majority are just … You know, it’s the same old, sugar snuck into the dressings and sugar snuck into salad dressings that are based on vegetable oils and have added sugars and it’s going on a salad, so therefore it’s healthy? You know?
Stu
Yeah.
Josh
That, I think is frustrating for us but more importantly, I think it’s really deceptive when it comes to consumers who are just trying to take … I mean, they have the best intentions, right? They genuinely want to take care of themselves.
Guy
[00:11:00] Yeah, that’s the one thing I was gonna add to that, ’cause like thanks to marketing … Marketing can be a fantastic thing ’cause you want people to buy into your message and what you believe in but on the flip side, it can be also very manipulative and depending on where they’re at. You’re competing directly against that. You know, if people, Josh: Yeah, 100%, 100%.
Guy
… are marketing to be 100% healthy, but then when you start to investigate a little bit and if you’ve got the education behind it, you can start to poke holes in it straightaway. I mean, how do you compete against that, Josh?
Josh
[00:11:30] [00:12:00] It’s really tough to … Well, first of all, we can’t outspend a lot of our competitors because they’re much bigger than us. Because they’re selling crappier food, they’ve got better margin, so they’ve got more cash flow to put into marketing, so that’s a legitimate challenge. That is a real challenge. Both in the food court and with our new ready meal business, where we’re doing fresh chilled ready meals delivered to home and offices, when we looked at the competitors at the high end … You know, if you pay $16, $17, $18 for a ready meal, there’s some genuinely good products. Like there’s some really good products out there, but if you’re paying 10, 11, 12, there’s a lot of offers that are just outright lying on their nutritional information panel. [00:12:30] We’ve pulled apart their meals. We’ve tested their meals and they’ll say it’s 28 grams of net protein and chicken dish, which means that there needs to be 95 to 100 grams of meat, and there’s 75 grams of meat in the dish. It’s just an out-and-out lie. That’s on the nutritional information panel. Then you look on the ingredients and it says chicken and then in brackets there’s about six ingredients, so it’s not chicken. It’s partially chicken, that then is being injected with a saline solution to pump up the volume. I think there’s a certain amount that we could do to suggest to customers that it is scratching the surface. You know, just put the meal on a scale, if you’re so inclined but certainly read the ingredients panel. [00:13:00] If there’s words there that you don’t understand, then that’s contrary to what our promise is, which is real food. If there’s words there that are a jumble up of chemical names and just words we can’t even pronounce, then maybe it’s not real food. I think that for us to go head-to-head in a big expensive, above the line TV billboard, et cetera, et cetera, marketing campaign is just not feasible. We need to do more of exactly this. This is what’s so great about what you guys are doing and others in the community, kind of attempting to bypass that very expensive marketing machine that only the large corporate can really play on, and getting the truth out there.
Guy
Yeah, totally. [00:13:30]
Stu
I think one of our mates said … Do you remember, Guy, that little phrase about the amount of cash that you put into your marketing, is in direct correlation with the quality of the product? For instance, Coca-Cola spend a trillion dollars on marketing, because essentially it’s sugar water, whereas … Yeah, it’s so true, it’s so true. [crosstalk 00:13:54]
Guy
Oh, go on Stu.
Stu
Go on. After you, please. [00:14:00]
Guy
No, I was just gonna mention, you mentioned the ready meals there, Josh, as well. I’m wondering now where do you deliver?
Stu
[00:14:30] We deliver Brisbane City, Melbourne and some of the surrounding areas around the capitals. We’re sort of slowly increasing. We got 500 postcodes today and that will increase over time as we get the word out there. It’s a loss leader for us to even deliver that broadly now. I mean, sometimes we’re sending a truck to Brisbane with a … It’s just not economically sensible. We wouldn’t do it if we were trying to maximize profit. What we really want to do is get our product into as many hands as possible because honestly, when you taste the difference you understand the difference. As I said, there’s certainly ready meals out there, that I would consider highly competitive with us, but they’re typically at the higher end of the price range. [00:15:00] Because we’re trying to reach the broadest possible market … I mean we want to get out into the burbs, you know? We want to get to moms and dads. We want to get to single moms single dads, you know, women who have had babies and are just flat out trying to take care of their bub, let alone cook for themselves. We’re not wanting to just preach to the converted, those who really prioritize their health to the point that $16 or $18 for a ready meal is acceptable. We want to have an offer that delivers at $10 to $14. When you compare what we’re doing, with what others are doing, at that price point we feel that there’s a real point of difference. [00:15:30]
Guy
Yeah, they’re so handy as well, especially … It will definitely eliminate excuses. You think of just the amount of people that might have a bit of an epiphany, and they’re going, “Right, I’m gonna get to the gym. I’m gonna start to eat healthier and what do I eat?” If you’re working in the CBD, I mean, to me it sounds like a no brainer, really?
Stu
[00:16:00] Yeah. We deliver a lot into the city actually. The meals are sized such, that they are the perfect size for most people to have for dinner, men and women. Typically, if you’re a guy in heavy training, they’re probably gonna be a little on the small size, so we always suggest that you throw additional salad at it, whatever you’ve got in the bottom drawer basically to increase that. We don’t want to make it so big that it’s not portion control, because that is difficult for a lot of people as well. Also, because of the quality of the ingredients, if we made them a 450 gram meal, it would just be too expensive. [00:16:30] What a lot of guys are doing, in particular … When we look at where we’re delivering to, and the names that we’re delivering to, the vast majority of our customers, overall are female, but it’s almost 50/50 for CBD deliveries. We think that a lot of the guys are using them for lunch. They’re flat out in the office. They know they’re not gonna be able to get out and they don’t want to stand in line or go and sit down for half an hour and wait for food. They’re on a project, they’re on a deadline, whatever, so in two minutes they can have a great meal. [00:17:00] It is incredibly convenient. That’s the whole trend we’re trying to address, that even those of us who are committed to an active lifestyle, and try our darnedest to get balance in our lives and would much prefer to cook seven nights out of seven and preferably bring in leftovers or make their own lunch seven days out of seven, it just doesn’t happen. When people are stressed and they’re in a rush, that’s typically when they make their worst food choices. We think that’s a moment in time where we can really help.
Guy
Yeah, perfect. [00:17:30]
Stu
It is. I think the whole clean eating phrase, at its core, is typically about preparation and just having the forethought to go and say, “Right, this week I’m gonna be doing this.” I guess, like you said these convenient meals take that away from you if you’re super busy and just can’t get out and about and prepare for yourself. Josh: [00:18:00] Yeah, 100%. We still cook most nights at home, but we’ve got a stock of five ready meals in the fridge or the freezer so that on those nights where we get stuck in the office or something comes up, and you’re getting home at 7:30, 8:00 and you know that you’re just gonna jump on UberEats and order some dodgy curry, for half the price, you can pull it out of the fridge and have a good meal. I would not suggest that everyone eats anyone’s ready meal, every night of the week for the rest of their life. I think you’d do just fine on ours, actually, but we want to encourage people to cook. We want to encourage people to come into the restaurants. It’s just another piece of the puzzle, I think. [00:18:30] It’s also really useful for people who have made a decision to make a significant shift. These aren’t people who are already kind of on the journey, as it were, but your classic kind of, middle of January, “Oh my God, I can’t go on like this. I need to change my life,” and sign up for a PT, best intentions in the world. The PT does a great job but eating is so much of the solution. We’ll, they can jump on and order a meal plan for us and get literally every meal they need for the week delivered to them. That’s the full spectrum. [00:19:00] [00:19:30] I’m the customer that orders 10 meals and puts four in the freezer and keeps six out for lunch and dinner that week. We have a lot of customers like me. Then at the other end of the spectrum, we have people who are so busy but they’re really committed to making a shift and they want to make it as convenient as possible, ’cause they’re trying, to your point Stu, eliminate the excuses or just eliminate the moving parts involved in making such a big lifestyle shift. It definitely is a convenient solution and at least through us and some of the better competitors, a legitimately healthy solution as well and infinitely better than your average takeaway or delivery.
Stu
Absolutely. How can we get these meals onto every plane in the sky at the moment? Because you know what it’s like when you open up that menu on the plane and you think, oh no, [crosstalk 00:19:52]
Josh
[00:20:00] I know. It’s such a good point. We actually spoke to the airline. I won’t mention the airline. Their target price for airline food, the cost price is frighteningly low, so there is a reason you’re eating what you’re eating on the plane. Look, we would love that, and we would certainly love to have some sort of pop-up at the airport or maybe a THR1VE location at the airport one day, so for people who wanted to, they could take the food with them on the flight. [00:20:30] Working through the airlines, at least so far … There might be a more progressive airline out there that’s having the same conversation right now. We did only speak to one airline, so I don’t want to tab a whole industry with the same brush. But certainly once we went through the conversation at price point, I was like, “Guys, that wouldn’t even pay for the protein, let alone the side, let alone the packaging, let alone the labor.” It’s like, how do you do it?
Stu
Well, we know how they do it because we’ve eaten that food.
Josh
Exactly. [00:21:00] Josh: I do think there’s an opportunity though for us at one point to look at a frozen range as well. At the moment, we’re doing just fresh chilled. I prefer fresh chilled because that gives you the option of having it never being frozen or if you want to, you freeze it at home and that’s your decision. I’m not making the decision for you. It does mean that in remote areas of Australia, we’d be at mines, remote communities, armed forces bases, all that kind of stuff. I’d love to be able to provide something to that customer as well. [00:21:30] My brother-in-law has worked fly-in, fly-out for a number of years and he’s just gone through a really big detox and got his diet under control and he now brings all his own food into camp, which is a nightmare ’cause he’s cooking on a camp stove. You can do it but my goodness, you’ve got to be committed. To be able to give them an option out there, would be fantastic.
Guy
[00:22:00] [00:22:30] That’d be phenomenal, yeah, absolutely. Josh, we were in email chat through the week and someone triggered this question off, kind of taking it left field slightly, but it was regarding making the wellness connection because … I’m sure you see it from working in the CBD as well now. We seem to be having more wellness theme things within the corporate world that is trying to educate. Technology is increasing but I still worry about the fact that we’re not seeing it with the people, itself. How do you take that knowledge into actually, action, and where does THR1VE fit in with that as well?
Josh
[00:23:00] It’s a really, really great challenge for us to collectively solve for, I think, in terms of you guys ask the community more broadly. The link between … there’s some great sites for inspiration. By sites, I mean businesses be they online or not. There’s some great sites for empowerment. Okay, I’ve been inspired, I now want to educate myself. I want to feel empowered and understand the moving parts. The link to action is one that we’re wanting to solve for, so inspiration empowerment action, that entire journey, I think we need to solve for. To speak to what we’re seeing out in the market, before I talk about THR1VE, that is still the missing link. [00:23:30] [00:24:00] When we attend corporate wellness days and there’s nutritionists speaking or a doctor speaking or an exercise physiologist or whoever, a great speaker will rev up the crowd. Like that crowd is good to go. By the time they finish, you’ve got a good 50% of hands shooting up and saying, “Yes, I’m committed and …” It’s like, “Great, good luck,” and they then have to figure it out for themselves. How do we solve for that? For us, what we’re working on is we have the THR1VE product protocol, which is our eight week transformation program. It works … I’m happy to send you guys a link to put up in the show notes for free download, if you’d like. It’s not something we’re trying to make money out of. [00:24:30] We want as many people to understand this material as possible. Even with that eBook, A, it’s an eBook and people have to read it. No one likes reading anymore. Secondly, there’s no kind of one click ordering. It’s like, “Okay, I got it. Nutrition is a huge part of the puzzle. Let me click here and get it delivered.” That’s our challenge. We need to build a digital platform to accommodate that over the next six months. We just closed a fund raising deal to bring $10 million into the business, which literally closed a week ago. Huge amount of work over the last six months. [00:25:00] A big part of that is to really build out that platform to be, hopefully, better creators of content and aggregators of other people’s great content, so a bit of a community platform for you guys and people who we really admire in the business and then to have the eBook broken down into bite size chunks, no pun intended, you know, daily inspirational videos and quotes and recipes and things to cook at home or things to order from us. Then, right the way through to, “Yes, I want to do this program. I’m gonna sign up for the first week. Click here, all my meals are delivered or click here and I can collect at the restaurant, or click here and I get a free download of the cookbook and I can cook at home.” [00:25:30] I think the inspiration empowerment thing, part of it has to happen at a community level. Obviously, it’s way too big a problem for us to solve on our own or for you to solve on your own. I think it’s about taking people further than that first couple of steps, like offering to hold their hand right the way through the process. Get them hooked up with the right trainers, run through a suggestion of places where they could eat, have a shortlist of supplements that we endorse. [00:26:00] Obviously, we love what you guys are doing, that’s why we offer on our online business. If the community works together and I think, commits to taking that journey, that few steps further, because we’re trying to create a habit. We’re trying to replace bad habits with a new habit. That whole thing about 21 days to create a habit, a one hour inspirational speech from the best nutritionist in the world, it’s just not gonna cut it. We need to stay with them for a period of weeks.
Guy
Yeah, it’s a tough [crosstalk 00:26:14]
Stu
[00:26:30] I think that success also comes with personal achievement as well because the moment that you start to feel different, then a spark goes off in your head, because we know nutrition is vitally important, but it’s a pillar. If you haven’t covered your sleep, your exercise, your mindset, your food, all of the above, hydration, then you’re probably not gonna feel at the top of your game. The moment you get a little bit of advice that just works for you, for instance, “I’ve done something different at night and I’ve slept better and I’ve woken up feeling better than I ever had before,” that, I think, is when you start to think, “Oh, I’m gonna dial in a little bit closer now and listen.”
Josh
Right, 100%. [00:27:00]
Stu
Yeah, it’s so important. Just touching back to your eBook and the wellness program, what are your top level tips for improving oneself?
Josh
Okay, this is the 220 pages distilled into three sentences.
Stu
Yeah, exactly.
Josh
[00:27:30] Well, maybe give me five or six sentences. Number one tip, and this is geared someone who is looking to shed excess body fat, okay, so I should say that from the outset. Obviously, our advice would be different if you were looking to maintain and improve health or you wanted to gain muscle. This is about, “I want to shed excess body fat, but I want to do it in a healthy way. I want it to be simple to achieve and I want it to be effortless to sustain, which is the big one, no yo-yoing, right?
Stu
Yes.
Josh
[00:28:00] First two weeks, we recommend a genuine ketogenic approach for two weeks. Very difficult for most people to sustain. Socially, emotionally, culturally, very difficult to sustain indefinitely. Also, the law of diminishing returns does kick in with a purely ketogenic approach, when it comes to weight loss. Other benefits, absolutely, but when it comes to weigh loss … We recommend for two weeks, just as a metabolic and endocrine reset, to basically force the body [inaudible 00:28:14] burning stored body fat as a source of fuel, as opposed to relying on glucose. After those two weeks, we then recommend a cyclic low carb approach. [00:28:30] [00:29:00] That’s still, by anyone’s definition, very low carbohydrate, however post training we recommend two strength sessions a week and two high intensity interval sessions a week, which are like 8 to 12 minutes for the high intensity interval training sessions, very brief. Strength is all focused on the big compound, multiple joint, multiple muscle group movements. You squat, you bench press, deadlift, chin ups, military press, very simple stuff. In and out of the gym in 25 to 40 minutes, depending on how much people want to do. You’re talking about anything between an hour and two hours a week, in total training. [00:29:30] Subsequent to those training sessions, you have a bit of a carb refeed. It’s clean carbs, it’s what you and I would call clean carbs, gluten-free sources of carbohydrates, sweet potato, white potato, rice quinoa, et cetera, et cetera. The more dialed in on that you want to be, the more you can be. If you prefer white potato to sweet potato, we don’t consider that disastrous, if you are being sensible about portion size, and we’re not talking fries. We’re talking actual potatoes.
Stu
Potato chips.
Josh
[00:30:00] Exactly, he said I could have potato. Ketogenic for two weeks, and then six weeks of cyclical carb. Now in reality, I’ve been doing cyclical carb for like five years. You don’t have to stop [inaudible 00:29:46] six weeks, obviously, but no one wants to commit or very few people want to commit to, “I’m gonna change my life for the rest of my life starting today,” whereas eight weeks is a very palatable program. In terms of the eating, it’s all detailed in the book, but it’s exactly what you guys and we have been preaching for years and that is … Michael Pollan said it much more succinctly than I can, “Eat real food, not too much, mostly plants.” That’s pretty well in a nut shell.
Stu
Yeah, it does well. Josh: [00:30:30] No processed rubbish, focus on veggies, salads, herbs and spices, as fresh as you can get and at the highest quality that you can afford. Then be conscious to portion control, eat until you’re no longer hungry, rather than eating until you’re full. I saw a great piece of research. I can’t remember who it was from now but there was an average 50% delta in calories between, “I’m not hungry anymore,” to, “I now feel full.” By tuning into hunger, chewing slowly, being mindful, all that kind of stuff, eating consciously, and enjoying it and then tuning into hunger signaling, you’ll find that you’ll eat substantially less without even thinking about it. [00:31:00] [00:31:30] The other things is by swearing off all the highly processed carbohydrates, what Rob Wolf calls hyper-palatable foods, it resets your … it shifts you away from that cycle of craving more food for all the endocrine reasons we won’t bore your listeners with and I’m sure they’re familiar with. It’s a couple of very simple shifts, you know, being very careful around carbohydrate intake, going ketogenic ultra-light carb for a couple weeks, cyclical crab, just carbing-up after you train, then being mindful of portion control and hunger signaling and train. Move heavy stuff, twice a week and sprint twice a week. That was more than five sentences, wasn’t it?
Guy
Yeah.
Josh
Sorry.
Stu
No, no, I think it was 550 but, no, it was good. It’s great advice. Yes, I guess, ultimately it boils down to eat real food, move like we’re supposed to move as well,
Josh
Yes.
Stu
[00:32:00] … because, you know, we’re not these caged creatures who sit and stand at a desk all day long. I told a friend a few weeks ago that I’d spent … I got really, really active with the kids a couple of weeks ago, just rolling around and crawling around. I just felt I’d done the mother of a workout, two days after that. I ached everywhere and that’s what we’re not doing anymore. We’re just sedentary, but no, that is excellent advice.
Josh
Totally.
Stu
One more question. Sorry guy, just one more. Who inspires you, in the health and wellness circles? [00:32:30]
Josh
Who inspires me? I draw a lot of [crosstalk 00:32:35] inspiration from … Sorry? Oh, you guys.
Guy
Yeah.
Josh
[00:33:00] I think the guys that, probably, we’ve been talking about for years, I’m a big admirer of Robb Wolf. I’m a big admirer of Mark Sisson. I think more recently, Tim Ferriss’ work, which obviously much broader than health and wellness. It’s more around a life lived in full, in all its dimensions. I’ve found that particularly inspiring because I think I did go very deep down the nutrition rabbit hole for a little while. It’s been nice to come back out, recognize, to your point, it’s an incredibly important pillar, we would argue one of the most important pillars, but it’s still only one aspect of a life lived in full. [00:33:30] I’ve found Tim’s work around profiling and seeking the hacks of incredibly successful people, and again, success in the holistic sense. I’m not talking money, I’m talking just about people who have lived really interesting, full, exciting lives, so probably those guys. At the moment, I tune into Dave Asprey, a little bit who I know you interviewed recently. [crosstalk 00:33:47] There’s a number of other guys within that space, who I follow but not obsessively. [00:34:00] [00:34:30] Cliff Harvey, out of New Zealand, I think his work is really interesting. He just did a new book called The Carb Appropriate Diet, which I hope gets the attention it deserves. It’s a really nice distillation for a mainstream audience, so, why becoming mindful of carbs can be so incredibly powerful [inaudible 00:34:16]. Who else? There’s tons of others and I can’t think of them right now but the guys who I tune into and really pay attention closely have been the same guys I’ve been following for the last seven or eight years, which would be Tim, Robb and Mark. Stu: Yeah, [crosstalk 00:34:33] exactly right. It’s great as well because it just allows us … You know, in this day and age, we’ve got access to so much amazing information. If we want to dig deep, we can go really, really deep, in terms of, you know, get fully down the ketogenic tunnel and find out where that started. It’s just great. Yeah, I think, it’s just empowering.
Josh
[00:35:00] It is. It is, and I think the key … I was talking to Cliff actually, Cliff Harvey, the guy I mentioned before, saw him the other day because he’s helping us with the digitization of protocol. We were talking about features versus benefits and we were talking about all these apps that are just features rich. If you are a highly attuned trained athlete, you’re gonna use this app all day long, but the vast majority of this, we become so confused by the features. You know, deep down that rabbit hole, there’s so much to look at, so much sparkly new stuff, that sometimes we forget about the benefits. [00:35:30] [00:36:00] What I’m trying to do with my team is really have us focus on how does this benefit the consumer? Yeah, it’s interesting, yeah, it’s great. Yeah, it’s cutting edge and if our audience were Commonwealth Games athletes, I’d be all over it but they’re not, so how do we focus on the things that benefit your mainstream Aussie? That’s not meant to sound derogatory, I mean like, our friends, like the people out in the burbs with big jobs, not a lot of time, mortgage stress, family pressure, they want to take care of themselves. How do we help them? Because if we’re not making it easier, more accessible, simple to understand and effortless to sustain, then I think we’re missing the mark. I have my nerd days where I get right down that rabbit hole and I love it, but I’m trying to become more conscious of not confusing dash, that last 1%, with the first 90, that most people are really interested in.
Guy
[00:36:30] I can’t remember if we mentioned it on this podcast before or where did I get this stat from and could be just a stat, that just fell into my head, so I might be completely off the mark, but it was like the word Paleo had only been heard … only 5% of Australians were actually even familiar with the term, let alone applied it or knew what it was. Then when you drilled down again, it was at like such a minute people that were actually kind of looking into this and arguing over it and what was right, what was wrong and so forth. It really puts things into context. [00:37:00]
Josh
100%, yeah.
Guy
Yeah, which intrigues me because I wanted to ask you. You’re watching trends, you’re looking at things and Paleo kind of came in and then it’s kind of died off, same as sugar to a degree. Now we’re starting to see a lot more of the ketogenic and also intermittent fasting and things like that. Where do you see the wellness trend going in the [crosstalk 00:37:25] [00:37:30]
Josh
I think Paleo died off, I think it was killed off. I think there was a …
Guy
Yes.
Stu
[00:38:00] Let’s not even go down that pathway. If you check out Google trends on Paleo, Australia saw a really nice ascent that mirrored the US and some other major markets and then we fell off a cliff, in terms of Paleo, and I think we all know why, fight? I think there’s been a couple people in the Paleo community that have done a huge disservice and have made it incredibly fundamentalist and dogmatic. If you speak to Rob and you speak to Mark about what those individuals have been saying, they are aghast at how their message has been twisted. I think that, that’s really unfortunate. [00:38:30] In terms of where it’s going today, I think the ketogenic diet is getting a lot of airtime. It’s unfortunately being distilled by some supplemental companies into a weight loss program, which is not … It can have very affective impact on weight loss, particularly if used short term as we’re suggesting in the protocol, but taking exogenous ketones in energy source is not necessarily the best way to get into nutritional ketogenesis if your objective is losing weight. I think again, there’s a little bit of confusion out there that isn’t always accidental by those with an agenda to push. Certainly, the ketogenic diet looked at holistically, including the use of exogenous ketones for certain purposes, is a great … it’s a great protocol to explore. [00:39:00] [00:39:30] I think sometimes we oversimplify in the media as to what it’s all about and what it’s meant to be used for. Intermittent fasting has always been part of the Paleo scene. It’s had a bit of a renaissance around the ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting, again, is really useful for a whole bunch of therapeutic purposes and it can help you lose weight, no question. I think sometimes when we simplify it to the lose weight thing is a hammer, so therefore everything is a nail. You lose a lot of the nuance, unfortunately, but at the same time, I get it and we have to play in that space too. If nine out of ten people in our customer surveys tell us that their number one objective is losing excess body fat, we need to address that.
Guy
Yeah.
Stu
Yeah.
Guy
Yeah, fair enough.
Stu
Totally. Josh: [00:40:00] Just to round out, the last thing on that in terms of trends, ’cause the one thing that I am seeing a lot of at the moment is the real food, whole food thing. Again, you guys have been talking about it for years, we’ve been talking about it for years. If you look out into mainstream world, there’s a lot more around real food and I relay hope that, that continues to gain momentum. I also how that it’s an authentic movement, that we’re not slapping real food onto highly processed products.
Guy
Yeah.
Stu
Absolutely.
Josh
Yeah.
Stu
It does feel a little silly, doesn’t it, talking about eating real food as being a trend. [00:40:30] Josh: It is. I mean, it’s ridiculous. What on earth is unreal food, you know?
Guy
I know [crosstalk 00:40:35]
Stu
Yeah, I could show you. I’ll walk you around Coles or Woolies. I can show you unreal food. Josh: Absolutely. You’re talking about airline food before, you know, jump on any plane, that will give you a good idea.
Stu
I know. Guy: It just shows the power of marketing. Like, I was that guy for 31, 32 years thinking I was doing the right things constantly, low fat diet and, you know?
Josh
Right.
Stu
Of course. [00:41:00]
Guy
It’s just amazing. Sorry, Stu, you gonna say something?
Stu
Well, I was just gonna say let’s step into our time machine and leap forward five years. What do you see as the future of THR1VE? Where do you want it to be in that time space?
Josh
[00:41:30] First of all, I’d love to have access to this time machine ’cause I’d save a lot of time money on, going down [inaudible 00:41:21] alleys. Assuming things go okay, we’re trying to build an iconic Australian health and wellness brand. I mean that is the long term objective. We have a very strict approach to what … The brand has a very strict definition, in terms of what we can and cannot support, but within that space there’s multiple categories that we can develop. We obviously have the restaurants, we now have the ready meal business and ultimately I would love to solve for customer problems at all day parts and at all stages of life. [00:42:00] [00:42:30] If we think about our nexus of high performance nutrition and global food trends and locally sourced real food, there’s a number of different categories that you can manifest that within. I feel like we’re creating a brand that is in many ways, much bigger than the business right now. The question that we need to deal with over the next few years is, what channels to market and what categories within each channel do we prioritize to give the brand, the business that it deserves. I would love to think, to answer your question, in five years that when people think about THR1VE, they think of us as Aussie. [00:43:00] I really want to be known as iconically Australian health and wellness brand wherever we are in the world, by then and they see us as having a set of principles that we … It’s not marketing talk, it’s not slapped on the wall to make the reception area look good. It’s something we actually, truly live and breathe every day and therefore they trust us that within the categories, within which we operate there’s a product or a service that really lives up to that brand promise. That would be a great five years, great five years. Stu: Yeah, I would like to see a mook in front of the word THR1VE and have THR1VE as the drive-in for whole food for everybody, like as convenient as the other guys, but wouldn’t that be great? Josh: That would be amazing.
Stu
Yeah.
Josh:
[00:43:30] Yeah, that would be amazing. When we actually just … It’s funny you mentioned that. We talk about menu development from the get-go, from day one, I was adamant that everything we do has to be delivered within an average of three minutes, which means that some of the bowls take four or five and some of them take, you know, two to three. The signature bowls come out in three to three and a half minutes. [00:44:00] If you customize it, it’s more like five minutes and the constant discussion was, “Well, why?” You know, because there’s plenty of places in the food court that take seven or eight minutes and I was like, ‘Cause if we’re not doing drive-thru’s in five or ten minutes time, then we’re not aiming high enough. If we really want to reach as many people as we can, we should be going head-to-head with the majors. From the get-go, we’ve dreamed big, which means we’ll either fail spectacularly or we’ll breakthrough. Stu: That’s right. It will make a great story. Josh: [crosstalk 00:44:13] yeah, exactly. Guy: You’ll have a great [crosstalk 00:44:16] in 10 years’ time mate, no matter what happens. That’s the main thing.
Stu
That’s right.
Guy
[00:44:30] Yeah, brilliant. [crosstalk 00:44:22] I’m aware the time is getting on and we wanted to raise … Just touch on the topic of longevity, where you went Dr. John Hart. Now, John, we’ve had on the podcast twice, we think he’s awesome and we were interested to see what you kind of unearthed and what you went for and how it’s impacted your decisions from moving forward?
Josh
[00:45:00] I think John … Two things, John, from a longevity perspective and also the DNA testing I’ve done from a longevity perspective have both been really interesting. What I love about John is that … You know, we think of ourselves as science-led, John takes that to a whole other level, in terms of … My first consult with him was almost 90 minutes. The blood panel that he ordered, I felt like I’d lost, you know, two liters of blood. He tested for everything. He did some tests that, at that point in time, couldn’t be done in Australia. We had to ship blood to the US. [00:45:30] [00:46:00] His approach is incredibly thorough, in terms of understanding the patient, from a holistic perspective, parents, grandparents, what you ate as a kid, training, any injuries, so all diet and lifestyle stuff, absolutely, but right the way back multi-generationally from a epigenetics perspective, that was fascinating to me, to see how he carried that through his work. He has been instrumental in helping me really dial in diet. One small example, so my family history, we have elevated LDL cholesterol, right throughout the family. As you guys know, 70 to 80% of people respond to Paleo, we’ll call it high fat low carb, in a very positive way, when it comes to their cholesterol profile. Even if the cholesterol goes up, the ratio between HDL and LDL generally improves. [00:46:30] I’m obviously a believer in the more progressive research around cholesterol. I’m not worried about total cholesterol levels, but I am worried about small dense particles, LDL particles, particularly those that oxidize. What we found was that unfortunately, I was one of those responders who went the other way. The traditional Paleo diet without adjustment, was increasing my LDL, not just the LDL count itself, but the particle size was shifting to the small dense particles. Now that is just not something I would have ever discovered on my own. I made a couple of simple shifts, so I respond better to a slightly … By most people’s standards, I’m still very low carbohydrate. I’m never more than 150 grams a day or so. [00:47:00] [00:47:30] Where I was driving it into the ground, I was doing 20, 30 grams a day on my keto days. I just do more like 70 to 80 on my low carb days and then up to 180 on my post-training carb days. For me, my blood profile has improved dramatically. I’ve also put on three kilos of muscle, which I lost when I first went keto. I lost fat but I also lost muscle. It’s the last 5%. I think when you’re at the point when you really want to dial it in or you’ve got some lingering concerns around familial genetic or potential genetic predisposition to certain conditions or diseases, then I think it’s incredibly helpful. I mean, I highly recommend John. [00:48:00] You know, the functional doctors, integrative medical doctors, they’re called different things in different markets that are … He’s certainly the best that I’ve seen. I had a great one in Philadelphia as well, when I was living in the US but John’s the best guy I’ve seen in Australia. The other thing was DNAFit. That’s a UK outfit. There’s a couple of domestic operators now but I did it a few years back, three years back and there were no domestic operators at that point. That was really interesting as well. That one was DNA testing around specific genetic mutations or lack there of, that would predispose one to getting more or less benefit out of certain dietary and lifestyle shifts. The main one for me … well there are a couple. [00:48:30] I won’t bore you with all of them but, my need for cruciferous veggies is much higher than the average Joe. I’ve got a bit of an unusual mutation there. On the flip side, I’ve been avoiding all dairy for a couple of years, after going Paleo and I have doubled the adaptive mutation to lactase, so I am in a great position to tolerate dairy, should I want to. I’ve started reintroducing a certain amount, high fat dairy. You know, I’m not gonna touch [inaudible 00:48:49] and go for raw if I can, so the upper end of your dairy quality spectrum. [00:49:00] I’ve really enjoyed reintroducing it and it’s really helped me with putting on some muscle. I, again, never would have … I know that most people should avoid dairy and that most people react badly to dairy. Well, we discovered, at least from a lactose perspective, I don’t. Then it’s about, are the growth factors in dairy a problem for me? Well, potentially, from a prostate cancer perspective and all the rest of it but therefore I’m using dairy-post workout. I think of it like a poor man’s steroid. If there’s growth factors in there, fantastic.
Stu
That’s right. [00:49:30]
Guy
You know, I just worked out and I can tolerate the lactose just fine, so it really is last 5%. Most people won’t bother, but I think if you’re inclined or if you’re inclined because you’re a nerd like me or you’re inclined because you’ve got some familial history, that you really need to dive into, then I think it’s absolutely worth its weight in gold.
Stu
[00:50:00] Brilliant. You know, isn’t science fantastic because Guy and myself went through similar testing to you. We did nutrigenomic DNA sequencing. My results, on some levels, sound a little similar to yours, in that I was advised not to go high fat because it triggered inflammatory markers in my body. I experienced that because I did go high fat and went really low carb and I just felt bad. My adrenals crashed and it just didn’t work for me am so I’m to introduce low GI carbohydrates and a truck load of cruciferous veg in the form of broccoli, cauliflower, sprouts, and yeah.
Josh
Me too.
Stu
Yeah, it just works. I love it, science [crosstalk 00:50:30] [00:50:30]
Josh
[00:51:00] I couldn’t agree more. I think that the level of reporting that we demand from our businesses or the level of reporting that we want, oh my goodness, from like the mechanic when you put your car in for service, we’re so disinclined to do the same thing with our own bodies. I took my car in for service the other day and I just watched the guy plug it into a computer and it just lit up. This was here and that was there, and that was there. It told him exactly what to [inaudible 00:50:55] Oh my God, that’s exactly that we need with our bodies and that’s what John does. Why would I demand it from my car mechanic and not from my doctor?
Stu
Exactly, right. Yeah, very interesting. I guess for everybody listening to this as well, after we finish this one, jump onto John Hart. You know, search for him in the search box on the website because yeah, very interesting interviews as well. Certainly makes you think a little differently, doesn’t it Guy?
Guy
[00:51:30] Oh, totally, yeah. Yeah, it’s a pleasure having him on every time. Amazing. We’ve got a couple of questions left, Josh, to wrap up the show. The first one is, what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?
Josh
Oh mate, are you serious? That’s such a tough one. Oh my God, okay, can I … It’s a quote that I read,
Guy
Beautiful.
Josh
[00:52:00] [00:52:30] … so it’s not advice that I’ve been given. If your audience Googles man in the arena by Roosevelt, it was a speech that he gave in the 20s in France, so I certainly didn’t get the advice directly from him. Sadly, I wasn’t in Paris in the 20s. It’s about ignoring your critics and it’s the man in the arena who’s bloodied from the, who gets the last say. It’s a really, really great quote. I think when we are as we regularly are, told by lots of supposedly wise people that what we’re doing is dumb and it’s never gonna work and we’re gonna burn through our cash and go broke ’cause people want to eat rubbish, I read that quote. It’s a good one to come back to.
Guy
Beautiful.
Stu
Brilliant.
Guy
Perfect.
Stu
Brilliant.
Guy
That was definitely a great piece of advice. Josh: What’s the second curveball?
Guy
You ready for this one. I kept the easy one first, mate.
Josh
[inaudible 00:52:50]
Guy
What are your non-negotiables each day, to be the best version of yourself? [00:53:00]
Josh
[00:53:30] Yeah, wow, that’s another one, another goodie. The non-negotiables, there’s not many actually. I think I absolutely want to make space every day for some form of meditation, which for me has been the guitar. I’m a crap meditator, like I’ve gone to the three day transcendental meditation course and for three months I did it every day. It definitely helped, no question, but I think that for me, losing myself in an activity that is a little more active and one that requires new brain connections and brain … I’ve got no musical talent, whatsoever. In fact, I should stress that playing the guitar is only relaxing for me. Anyone actually listening to it, would find it very stressful indeed, but for me it’s great. [00:54:00] [00:54:30] I try to make time … I do make time for, either the guitar or meditation every day. I make time for Steph, my wife, and I don’t mean just passing in the night stuff, I mean actually sitting down and communicating, talking to each other and not about work and not about the weather. It’s so easy to stop doing that. When you’re really busy, you take each other for granted a little bit. Hopefully that never happens. The other thing is training. I don’t train every day, I train three or four times a day but that’s sacrosanct. I mean that’s in my calendar, no one can block it out. I don’t know about you guys but like my team have got access to my calendar, so I can look at it on a Sunday night and go, “Great, I’ve got a bit of spare time here, a bit of spare time there. It’s gonna be a good week.”
Stu
Yeah
Josh
By the time you finish Monday, the calendar is just literally back to back and you don’t even get time to actually work, so I have to kind of schedule gym time in the calendar and that’s pretty sacred.
Guy
Beautiful. [00:55:00]
Stu
I get it. I get it, yeah. That’s my form of meditation, that’s where the magic happens for me, for sure, ’cause, yeah, I am useless at meditating. I’ve got busy mind, very hard to switch off, but when I’m lifting and doing stuff and cycling, it just seems to calm down,
Josh
Same, exactly.
Stu
… so it works for me.
Josh
[00:55:30] I always think about like when you’re … I spoke to a friend, I said the same thing. I said that a heavy strength session is highly meditative and he’s like, “How is that even possible?” I go, “If you’re squatting and you’re squatting at near your maximum, and it’s the fifth or sixth set, there is no way you can think about anything else.
Stu
That’s right.
Josh
You concentrate [inaudible 00:55:36], your breathing, your posture and it’s just … it’s very in the moment, you know?
Stu
If you do think about other things, you’re in trouble,
Josh
That’s right. Stu: … especially if you’re squatting. Josh: Yeah, it’s gonna hurt.
Stu
It will, yeah, somebody will [crosstalk 00:55:52]
Josh
You get that feedback, instant feedback, yeah. Get back in the zone.
Stu
Yeah, exactly. [00:56:00]
Guy
I put up an image of me in an ice bath in a freezer over the weekend and I was getting people, “Why are you doing that?” I was like, “Well, it’s very meditative once you’re in there,” ’cause you can’t think of anything else.
Stu
I thought you’d actually fallen in the freezer, Guy, trying to fish out a Paddle Pop.
Josh
[crosstalk 00:56:16] That is commitment to the Paddle Pop.
Guy
That was commitment, yeah. Josh, for anyone listening to this, they want to check out more of THR1VE, or even the ready-made meals, where can we send them to, mate? [00:56:30]
Josh
Best place is the website, so thr1ve.me, thr1ve with a 1 instead of the I, T-H-R, the number 1e.me and all our social media handles are there, Instagram and Facebook, all that kind of good stuff. The website’s the best place to start. If you want to get in touch with me directly, there’s a contact us on the website. It’s at hello@thr1ve.me, but they all end up coming to me once they go through a filter so you if you want to get in touch then that’s the best way to do it.
Guy
Beautiful. [00:57:00]
Stu
We can make that easier for you. We can put your mobile number on the blog. Okay, we’ll do that for you right now.
Josh
Should I just give our home address, maybe?
Stu
Yeah, do it, do it, why not. All good.
Guy
Well, gentlemen, always a pleasure, thank you.
Josh
Thank you.
Guy
Thanks Josh.
Stu
Great to speak to you again and we must me up in person soon as well.
Josh
Yeah, we’re well overdo. I look forward to it. Thanks for having me guys.
Guy
You’re welcome.
Stu
All right.
Guy
We appreciate everything you do [crosstalk 00:57:27]
Josh
Cheers, mate.
Stu
Bye-bye. [00:57:30]
Guy
Cheers, Josh.
Josh
Bye-bye.
