Rafaele Joudry – Discover The Benefits of Sound Therapy

Watch the full interview below or listen to the full episode on your iPhone HERE.

Stu: This week I’m excited to welcome Rafaele Joudry to the podcast. Rafaele has dedicated her life to helping people overcome auditory problems and enhance their lives through better ear and brain health. She pioneered the first portable sound therapy program after discovering how the program could benefit her mother’s hearing difficulties. In this episode, we discuss the principles of sound therapy, including the most commonly supported health conditions, and dig into brain plasticity through sensory stimulation. Over to Rafaele…

Audio Version

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Some questions asked during this episode:

• What is sound therapy and how did you get started in this area?
• What is sound therapy and how did you get started in this area?
• What could I expect during a sound therapy session?

Get more of Rafaele Joudry & Sound Therapy:

http://www.mysoundtherapy.com/podcast

If you enjoyed this, then we think you’ll enjoy this interview:

Louloua Smadi – Neurofeedback Therapy To Optimise Your Brains Potential
Dr Valdeane Brown PhD – Training the brain for more focus and clarity
Max Lugavere – Protecting Your Brain For Life

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The views expressed on this podcast are the personal views of the host and guest speakers and not the views of Bega Cheese Limited or 180 Nutrition Pty Ltd. In addition, the views expressed should not be taken or relied upon as medical advice. Listeners should speak to their doctor to obtain medical advice.

Disclaimer: The transcript below has not been proofread and some words may be mis-transcribed.

Full Transcript

Stu

(00:03)

Hey, this is Stu from 180 Nutrition, and welcome to another episode of the Health Sessions. It’s here that we connect with the world’s best experts in health, wellness, and human performance in an attempt to cut through the confusion around what it actually takes to achieve a long-lasting health. Now, I’m sure that’s something that we all strive to have. I certainly do.

(00:23)

Before we get into the show today, you might not know that we make products too. That’s right, we’re into whole food nutrition and have a range of super foods and natural supplements to help support your day. If you are curious, want to find out more, just jump over to our website. That is 180nutrition.com.au and take a look. Okay, back to the show.

Stu

(01:20)

Hey guys, this is Stu from one 180 Nutrition and I am delighted to welcome Rafaele Joudry to the podcast. Rafaele, how are you?

Rafaele

(01:28)

Great. Lovely to meet you.

Stu

(01:30)

No. Thank you so much for sharing your time. I very, very interested and intrigued to dig into your specialist topic today, which is sound therapy. But before we get into that, and first up, for all of our listeners that may not be familiar with you or your work, I’d love it if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself, please.

Rafaele

(01:48)

About me. Well, really, I’m sound therapy. I’ve been doing this for 30 years. Prior to that, for a few years, I was working as a community developer and I started out in social work and community development. I grew up in England originally and then lived in Canada for eight years and came to Australia over 30 years ago. Absolutely love it. So I’ve been living here enjoying the beautiful East Australian coastline and this great country for 30 years and running my business, which has been a very rewarding process. I’m also very committed to the environment and environmental health generally, being healthy in this beautiful world.

Stu

(02:29)

Absolutely. Fantastic.

Rafaele (02:30):
Some of my priorities.

Stu

(02:33)

No, it’s good. Well, it’s a good time of year as well at the moment. As you know, the sun is shining and we’ve got some beautiful weather, which makes us feel pretty damn good about where we live.

Rafaele

(02:43)

That’s right.

Stu

(02:43)

So, sound therapy. So I live in Byron Bay, as we just discussed, and I’m aware of sound healing, but I think that what you do is a little bit different. So I’m keen to understand, and our listeners as well. So what exactly is sound therapy and how and why did you get started in this particular area.

Rafaele

(03:03)

Okay, well, sound therapy is a very particular way of using sound for healing. The term, sound therapy, does have a broad generic application and most people think of big gongs and crystal balls, when you mention sound therapy. It’s not what we do at all. The sound that we are using for this therapy is classical music. And this particular brand of therapy was developed actually by an ear doctor, ear, nose and throat doctor in France over 60 years ago. And it’s a very particular way of using sound to impact the ear, the actual ear mechanism, and getting that to be more responsive and tuning it up so that the ears are able to play their really important role in the body of activating the brain and enhancing brain pathways. So we’re working in a very specific way. But the music that we use, it’s not just listening to any ordinary classical music, it’s the way the music has been processed that makes it into a therapeutic program.

(04:03)

It’s processed with some very particular filtering devices, which were developed by Dr. Tomatis, the ENT who developed it. And so we take a recording of classical music, we put it through all these filters and particular patterns and algorithms so that when you’re listening to the music as well as getting all the benefits of the classical music, you’re getting alterations in the frequency so that we are emphasizing the highs, we’re emphasizing the lows, we’re emphasizing the right ear. We’re retraining the ear. We’re actually retraining the muscles inside the ear to tune up the ear so it can perform its correct performance in the body. And so much of what we do is about the ear and its role in relation to the brain and how it can revitalize all our sensory systems and our brain performance.

Stu

(04:55)

Would this be a possible alternative to a hearing aid or you’re tackling other health conditions outside of hearing loss with sound therapy?

Rafaele

(05:03)

Well, I don’t present it as an alternative to a hearing aid. But as a supplement to a hearing aid, yes, we work on hearing absolutely, because we help the ear. But we’re helping such a wide range of conditions in addition to ear conditions because what we’re really targeting is the brain. Now, we use the ear to reach the brain. You can reach the brain via the eyes, via the tactile sensors, via the sense of smell with the right therapy. All of the different sensory therapies, they’re all really targeting the brain. It’s almost incidental that we help the ear on the way to the brain. And it’s very important to help the ear, but the ear in the brain is so closely interrelated as well.

(05:46)

But yes, we’re targeting the brain with one of the most important sensory systems. We have six, seven, or eight sensors depending on which ones you count. But hearing is massively important. It relates with so many different areas in the brain. There are 10 different major brain centers which respond to the sense of hearing and to the stimulation of sound therapy. And so we really are enhancing the performance of the individual, the stress, the energy, the focus, all of these things, but doing it through this access, through the hearing pathway.

Stu

(06:21)

Fascinating. So what would be the most common health issues or conditions that people would then present to you in the hope to get some support through your therapy?

Rafaele

(06:34)

Well, people often come to us because of hearing. And that was how we found out about it first. But where people are helped as much or more than what they’re hearing is their general brain performance, fatigue. Fatigue is massive. It’s endemic. Sound therapy has a profound effect on the energy system and our fatigue. So many people say, “I wish I had more energy. I’m so tired.” Particularly after COVID. The impacts that people have had from their reactions to the vaccines or the virus itself. Many people are left with long-term fatigue and also brain fog. And we’ve seen extraordinary turnarounds when these people use sound therapy. It clears up the brain fog and it energizes the system. So yes, fatigue and energy. Sorry, I get so excited.

Stu

(07:24)

No.

Rafaele

(07:26):

I’m meant to be giving you a list of the different response to therapies. We’ll come back to that. Fatigue and brain fog. High performance ,like athletes or musicians, artists or top executives, business people or anyone in life, parents, shift workers, people who need to put out a high level of performance. Fantastic. They need sound therapy to help fuel that.

(07:49)

Stress. We can talk about the vagus nerve, our stress responses, anxiety, busy mind, all of that. Attention, being able to focus the attention. And that comes into memory as well and the brain working. And then there are disorders of the brain, degenerative things such as Parkinson’s, MS, stroke, brain damage. We’ve seen incredible recovery and turnaround in those conditions. And also, in developmental issues and difficulties with processing, I may have mentioned ADD, but there’s also autism, there’s dyslexia, there’s all sorts of these syndromes that children are struggling with and adults too. And sound therapy has helped those significantly because it kind of streamlines and normalizes the brain performance, the ability to respond to our environment. So there are so many things, it’s hard to know which one to talk about, because when you talk about the brain, it’s everything to do with our performance in life.

Stu

(08:48)

Okay. Well, I’m very keen to dig into attention, ADD, ADHD, all of those things because I think that’s very impacted by modern day society and tech, with our dependence on smart devices and all of the attention that they tend to grab from us. But before we do that, I’d be interested to, for you to explain what I would expect if I came in for a sound therapy session, feeling tired. So I’m feeling low, I’m feeling unenergized, I’m not sleeping very well, brain fog. If I came to you and sat down, what would I expect? Because at the moment, I’m thinking, well, you’re just going to plunk some earphones in my ear and press a track and ask me a few questions. But I’m sure it’s far more in depth than that.

Rafaele

(09:37)

Well actually, Stuart, you don’t come into me and sit down. Ours is a self-help program. You do it at home. So you ring up. You ring up and talk to us. We go through some questions with you. We do, do an assessment either online or via a paper and mail if you prefer that way. And you talk to one of our consultants and you decide to get started on the program. And so when you have your first session is when the program arrives and you open the package. And you have to have some education to use the program. Well, you can just read one chapter in the book and one page, that’s enough, of quick tips. We recommend that you read our book because in effect, you become your own therapist with the session.

(10:21)

Now, prior to our business started, we were the first to ever make sound therapy [inaudible 00:10:27]. Dr. Tomatis developed it and people used to go into the clinic. And they would be given a listening test and then the headphones would go on and they’d listen to music.

Stu

(10:36)

Yeah.

Rafaele

(10:36)

Now this is the easiest program ever to use. You put the headphones on, you press play, and the music plays and you carry on with your day. That’s all it takes to use it. And that’s one of the greatest benefits in this program is that it takes no time out of your day. And all of your listeners, I’m sure, have tried umpteen million different health techniques and they’ve probably kept going with them for anywhere from three days to three months or maybe even three years because they might require an hour a day or 15 minutes a day or five minutes a day. Ours doesn’t, it’s 30 seconds literally. Because all you do is you put the headphones in and you press play on the little device and the music’s playing.

Stu

(11:21)

Right. There is specialist technology in terms of that device, or could I download that onto my regular-

Rafaele

(11:31)

You have to play it on our device because you see, we’re talking about really high frequency sound, like above, well, I’m talking above 8,000 hertz, but up to 30,000 hertz. Those really high harmonics, which are probably inaudible to the conscious mind or the conscious ear, but they have an impact on the nervous system. We’re actually replenishing brain energy with these high frequencies. So it has to be very, very high quality. So no MP3 downloads. This is not an MP3 player. It’s not mp3. Those are four low quality sound files, which will not give you the therapeutic impact. These are very high, high fidelity sound files carefully loaded onto this player so that you have the full benefit of the full range frequencies and the filtering we’ve done. There’s no point doing all that filtering and then ruining it with a low [inaudible 00:12:23] sound.

Stu

(12:24)

Yeah, absolutely.

Rafaele

(12:25)

And it’s better having it on this device because I don’t want my phone on my body all day because of the radiation. And it’s a little bit too big. With our device, we’ve got this fantastic lanyard. Your listeners who are just on podcast won’t be able to see this, but some of them will be looking on your website. It’s a wide strap. It can go across the body like that, or you can shorten it and have it around your neck, or you can put this in your pocket or hang it around the bed post at night. So it’s really easy to carry.

Stu

(12:51)

Yeah.

Rafaele

(12:52)

Because I find if I’m ever listening something on my phone with headphones, I get up and walk away, it’s a nuisance to carry it with me, I’ll be carrying tea. So this is portable, it’s an attachment. There’s no radiation because it’s not downloading or anything. And I have it under my pillow at night. And you just have it with you and it’s just so convenient.

Stu

(13:11)

And you mentioned 30 seconds. I’m guessing that you can listen to it or should listen to it for longer. How many-

Rafaele

(13:20)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just telling you how long it takes to put the lanyard on.

Stu

(13:23)

Right, okay. Can I walk and listen? Do I need to be laying down? How does it work?

Rafaele

(13:33)

You can do anything except tennis or sex.

Stu

(13:37)

Right.

Rafaele

(13:37)

I know that’s a bit cheeky-

Stu

(13:38)

Preferably not both at the same time.

Rafaele

(13:39)

No. My mother said that in the book she wrote about it, just to give you the idea. You can just have it on. It’s like wearing your glasses. You put your glasses on and you do your day and then you take your glasses off.

Stu

(13:49)

And it isn’t going to… There’s no hypnotic effects in terms of I’m driving, I put that on and I fall asleep?

Rafaele

(14:01)

Well, no. Look, I don’t want to be liable for someone driving, they say, “Oh, I was listening to sound therapy.” But I’ll just tell you personally, this is not advice. But I find when I wear it, it helps me stay awake when I’m driving. And I’m not the only person to have said that because it’s not like a drug. A drug either knocks you out, puts you to sleep, or it makes you buzzing like caffeine.

Stu

(14:23)

Yes.

Rafaele

(14:23)

This doesn’t work like that. This allows you to actually control the off switch in your brain. So when you want to be alert and awake, with sound therapy, it helps you be alert and awake. And when you want to go to sleep, with sound therapy, it helps you go to sleep. But it doesn’t do that when you’re driving the car.

Stu

(14:39)

And is that through the selection of a different track?

Rafaele

(14:43)

No, no. It’s because it’s helping your brain to function normally. And so instead of having this state of, “I can’t keep awake because I’ve got no energy,” or the state of, “I’m so buzzed and I can’t calm down,” it gives you back the choice because it just helps your brain to be healthier.

Stu

(14:59)

And how long would results typically take to present themselves?

Rafaele

(15:03)

Well, some people, quite a few people over the years have told us they had amazing results the very first night. There are some people who feel it instantly. I remember a woman years ago who said, “The minute I put sound therapy on, I felt as though someone had put a warm hand between two wet blankets in my brain.”

Stu

(15:24)

Yeah.

Rafaele

(15:24)

I don’t know what that was, what condition that was, but it was just connecting her sensory pathways. Many people will sleep better the very first night after they put it on. But on average, six weeks to three months. It depends on what you’re using it for. For energy, it’s usually just a few days or a few weeks and people feel more energy. Some people go through a period of intense tiredness before they have the energy breakthrough because it’s reprogramming your nervous system. So you need to be prepared for this.

(15:52)

And this is why we’re giving education to the listener. Read the material, understand that you are your own therapist with this method. For some of the longer term conditions, like autism, stroke, tinnitus, which is a difficult hearing condition, ringing in the ears, things like that, it can take a few months, three, six, even 12 months. And there are added benefits that happen over the years. We have listeners who have used this for years. I’ve used it for over 30 years and I wouldn’t want to be without it. It helps my brain to stay balanced and normal. It’s no effort. It’s a comfort, a consolation. I listen every night.

Stu

(16:34)

Well, you certainly seem quite energetic. So I’m keen to find out more. So you mentioned that it reprograms, resets the brain. I’m keen to learn a little bit more about that. So what is exactly happening when you’re listening to these tracks? And you mentioned that there are different pitches and a whole heap of different stuff going on in that, especially prepared soundtrack. So what’s happening?

Rafaele

(16:59)

Okay. So first of all, I’ll explain what happens to the ear because that’s the pathway we follow along. So in the ear there are two little muscles, hammer muscle, and the stirrup muscle. Do you know about the muscles, Stuart? Are you a naturopath, a fitness trainer? What’s your-

Stu

(17:14)

No, no. So I only know about ears in terms of ocean swimming, water in the ear and ear drums.

Rafaele

(17:19)

Oh, so you know about swimmer’s ear.

Stu

(17:22)

Swimmer’s ear, free diving, scuba diving, that kind of thing.

Rafaele

(17:25)

Swimmer’s ear is the only thing we can’t treat because that’s when the bone of the canal actually grows over.

Stu

(17:29)

Yeah, it’s like calcified. Yeah.

Rafaele

(17:29)

We can still treat the rest of the ear, which may help. But the only thing I know to stop swimmer’s ear is the surgery and wear ear plugs to prevent it.

Stu

(17:38)

Or not swimming.

Rafaele

(17:40)

Yeah, yeah. So look, when I do talks, I talk a lot to community groups and I ask people, “Have you heard the three little bones in the ear, hammer, anvil and stirrup?” Everyone’s heard of the three little bones. Have you heard of the two muscles? One person might put their hands up, they’re a nurse or a doctor or something. But the muscles aren’t talked about. And this is fascinating because the muscles are the active part of the ear. Now I believe in the body as an active, responsive, engaged organism that can be retrained. And you know from your work in health that, and everyone knows, the muscles can be rebuilt. There’s an incredible recovery available for muscles just through exercise, through good program exercise. Any muscle in the body can be rehabilitated. And this is true of the ear muscles.

(18:27)

And yet, we don’t know about them and we neglect them and they get brutalized for decades with loud sound that just stops them from functioning. They go into spasm or they become weak. Machine noise, loud sound or low droning machine noise damages the hearing mechanism and the auditory pathways in the brain and our nervous system. And we’re all exposed to that. Even in Byron Bay, there’s machines everywhere. You go outside to try and get into the wilderness, you hear a surf ski or an airplane or something. Very small areas in the world now where you can get away from machine noise. Australia’s probably one of the best places in the world. So that’s continually draining energy from our system.

(19:14)

So with sound therapy, we’re giving a positive input to the ear through sound to retrain the ear to give it back its strength. So we start with the ear muscle. It’s actually a gymnastic training program for the ear because of the alternating frequencies in the sound. So it means high, low, high, low, built into the complex structure of classical music. So you can still hear the music. The music hasn’t been damaged or altered very much, but the subtle changes make a big impact on the ear. So it’s actually giving your ear muscles a workout. And some people actually feel a bit of a twinge in the ear when they first start using it, as that happens. And people who’ve got chronic blocked ear, that will open up in a matter of a few weeks or a couple of months. Chronic eustachian tube disorder. I’m not talking about swimmer’s ear where the outer canal is blocked, I’m talking about the eustachian tube, which is the passage from the middle ear into the pharynx, into the back of the throat.

(20:14)

And when you go up in an airplane and you have to clear your ears, or when you go scuba diving, you have to equalize, a little bit of air has to go through the eustachian tube for that to happen. And some people have this chronic feeling of blocked ear, that they can’t clear that. And sound therapy generally fixes that by exercising those ear muscles. And then once the muscles have been exercised and regained their tone, that whole ear brain circuit is working better. So the brain is able to access those high frequency sounds which are beneficial and healing to the whole nervous system. And to understand this, we have to understand how many of our nerves interact with the ear.

(20:55)

So anyone with nutritional or physiological training will know there are 12 cranial nerves, the ones that come directly out of the skull. And of those 12 cranial nerves which deal with all our sensory systems, 10 of them relate to the ear in some way. So that’s a very high level of integration between the ear and the nervous system. And that starts to explain why I can say the ear heals the whole nervous system. And the most interesting, perhaps how can you say something is the most interesting, but one fascinating nerve is the vagus nerve.

Stu

(21:34)

Yes.

Rafaele

(21:36)

Named after the vagabond, or wanderer, the longest nerve in the body, the 10th cranial nerve. Now, it has a branch lying across the eardrum. It’s been shown in recent scientific research by Dr. Stephen Porges who developed polyvagal theory, it’s been shown that when we exercise the middle ear muscles, it switches on a very important pathway of the vagus nerve. So the vagus nerve has two key pathways that we know about, that play a big role in our responses. One is the fight or flight mechanism which switches on that accelerated breathing and heart rate and it’s the panic reaction. But the other really important branch of the vagus nerve is the dorsal vagus, the social engagement nerve, which is the great calming nerve. And when that is switched on, we’re comfortable, we’re at ease, we have eye contact, we have rapport, the stress is gone. And sound therapy switches that off. So it’s like a switch to turn off the stress.

Stu

(22:40)

Absolutely. Fascinating. It sounds a little similar to blue light blocking technology.

Rafaele

(22:51)

Really?

Stu

(22:51)

Only from the sense that I wear blue light blocking glasses in the evening and when I put them on, I feel calm. Almost, I feel like I’m blanketed in this beautiful warm glow as opposed to all of the noise that comes out of the devices with the blue light and very bright flashing, different tones and contrasts, things like that. But yeah, it sounds fascinating. So essentially, we’re training a muscle really that doesn’t get trained but can be very beneficial from being trained. Am I right in thinking that?

Rafaele

(23:23)

Yes, yes. Two muscles, the hammer and the stirrup muscle. And you see that they form a feedback loop with the brain. So the ear talks to the brain, the brain talks to the ear. And so it’s this cycle. And the auditory system is just so close to our physiological functioning, our stress levels. People think this is impossible sometimes when I tell them the range of benefits, but we’ve seen improvement in heart function with sound therapy, with people who’ve got tachycardia and stroke recovery too, which is after the fact. But people who have been tracking their heart rate and their tachycardia for some period find a significant difference. And I attribute this to the link with the vagal nerve as well. So the calming effect is really quite profound and real in a physiological sense.

Stu

(24:21)

Absolutely. And I think that organs don’t operate in isolation. And certainly, the brain is the master controller and we can really hijack our physiology with the wrong train of thought. If we’re living in fight or flight, then we’re switching on stress hormones and that will have a physiological effect on the body in some way, shape, or form. So yeah, I am very fascinated in that. So is more better? I could just imagine some people just plug this thing and then they go, “You know what? I’m going to listen to this all day long.”

Rafaele

(24:53)

Some people do. And for some people that’s okay. We do have guidance for people in the program. So there’s the book which people read, which is very readable, very fascinating. But there’s also a workbook and there’s a listening routine to follow. So people fill in a simple questionnaire and it will put you into one of three groups, sensitive, moderate, or full fitness. And more or less, that tailoring is correct. We give great phone support. When people have questions, they can call us.

(25:23)

But it’s approximately three hours a day of listening is what’s recommended for the first few months. And your auditory system needs to adjust. In the program, there are four different albums and you have to gradually get used to album one, two, three and four, gradually build up. And once you’ve gone through that 12-week program, as many people, if you’re in pretty good health, you can then listen eight or 10 hours a day if you want to.

Stu

(25:47)

Yes.

Rafaele

(25:47)

Some people do. Look, I do listen most of the nights, Stuart. And I’m not awake listening, but it’s playing in my ears while I’m sleeping. And that’s great for me.

Stu

(25:56)

And it works.

Rafaele

(25:57)

I don’t need as much sleep. I used to need eight hours of sleep. Since doing this, I only need seven hours of sleep and I function better. And that’s an extra hour in the day for a lifetime. And some people, it’s a couple of hours in the day.

Stu

(26:10)

And absolutely. And I think sleep is definitely about quality, not duration, isn’t it? So if you can get better quality sleep in a shorter duration, then it’s a win all round. So just questions then, when you mentioned about three hours a day for listening. Could I listen to that when I’m exercising? And the only reason why I ask that question is because I think I’m going to be in a different state by exercising in terms of I might be lifting weights or doing a sprint class or a cycle class, when perhaps my body is in this fight or flight state. Would it be a recommendation to listen during that time?

Rafaele

(26:48)

Yep, yep. It’s great to listen during exercise. My tip for that is put the wire inside your clothes so it doesn’t catch on the handlebars or whatever. Look, we’ve had guys use this when they’re working in a sawmill, driving a tractor, whatever you’re doing during the day. Exercise, absolutely, fantastic. We’ve also had musicians, there was a conductor and pianist who was great fan of our program and he would listen to it while he was practicing the piano. That sounds weird, doesn’t it? Because it’s different music. But he felt it somehow took his brain a little bit into a different state and it helped him.

Stu

(27:20)

Wow. That sounds almost impossible to try and concentrate on music while listening to music.

Rafaele

(27:25)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you have trouble concentrating and focusing on what’s being said, like my mother used to, she had trouble following a conversation in a noisy room. This fixes it. It trains your attention so you’re not so distractable. And we started out, you were talking about attention and focus and this is a massive problem in the world because people are continually distracted with online social media, messaging, everything coming in, unable to focus. It’s endemic. It’s just a massive problem.

(27:59)

Sound therapy does help to train the brain to focus. You probably need to do something about turning off some of your apps as well. But also, I’m particularly concerned about young people who’ve grown up with that level of distraction, don’t know how to focus. To start a retraining program, you need more than just, “Well, I’m going to turn it off,” and you’re still all jittery. Sound therapy will switch on that calming capacity and help you to focus. And I find when I’m doing a piece of work, if I sit down to write, I always reach for the sound therapy and put it on there. It just brings me into a special zone.

Stu

(28:38)

Wow. Yeah. I’m particularly concerned about children and I don’t think we know how this is going to turn out because children that have been born into a digital age. We haven’t been there before and we are parents with children in a dig digital age. They’re given iPads when they’re at restaurants to try and keep them in line. I see children sitting at the bus stop with their heads bowed all on devices. They’re not communicating. Text notifications, messenger notifications, pings, words, buzzes continually. It’s a screen, it’s almost a migration from one screen to another screen throughout the day for these poor kids. It’s the mobile phone, the small screen when they’re at home. Then they might go into the classroom and they have a laptop or a tablet, so it’s a bigger screen. Then they go home onto the TV screen and then maybe they migrate back to the bedroom on this mobile phone.

(29:38)

And I’ve just noticed that there is a definite issue with attention and focus, that starry-eyed daydream thing that we used to do when we were younger because you had to do it because there was nothing else to do, in terms of nothing that would rob your attention and focus. Just almost centered you again, and they don’t get to have that. So I am afraid for them because we don’t know how this is going to turn out. So I’m keen then to hear, obviously very safe for everybody in the family and utilize for children to try and assist with concentration issues and ADD, ADHD and everything else that’s bundled under that label.

Rafaele

(30:25)

Absolutely, Stuart. One of my books is about children, Why Aren’t I Learning? The program’s been used with children since it was invented, Dr. Tomatis, the originator was very interested in children and he was using it to help children with dyslexia and autism. We didn’t have the distinction called ADD back then in the ’50s, but he was very interested in dyslexia and autism. And he was one of the first to point out that dyslexia is not just a visual disability, it’s an auditory disability. It’s to do with processing speed, auditory processing speed, and linear sequential processing. So getting the letters in the right order, that kind of-

Stu

(31:03)

Yes.

Rafaele

(31:04)

And so we’ve specialized in learning difficulties. Now, it’s almost today as though everyone has a learning difficulty. It’s this tension issue that you talk about. It’s like we’ve given everybody ADD through the continual distraction. And we have been seeing for decades how sound therapy helps ADD, since that was defined about 30 years ago. There’s something physiological that it changes in the brain. For some children, it’s almost as effective as the drugs that they give them for ADD.

Stu

(31:38)

Yes.

Rafaele

(31:38)

But with a calming effect, not with the negative side effects you can get from… It’s a shame for children have to take drugs to be able to concentrate. And it is an actual physiological disability when kids have ADD or adults. And the drugs they take are speed, to speed up the brain so that it can process more effectively. Sound therapy speeds up the brain, but it’s not speed in the sense that it makes you rattled and frazzled the way the medication does. It just helps it to function at the normal speed. And to give better judgment and that self-restraint and have time. Look, I spoke to a young man years and years ago who had ADD, grown up with ADD. He was very self-aware and he said he could observe in himself that when there was a situation and he was reacting to it, he would see himself reacting, but he couldn’t think fast enough to think it through to decide, “Oh no, that’s not a good thing to do.”

Stu

(32:34)

Right, right.

Rafaele

(32:35)

And he was aware of that. And he said when he took the drugs, then he could think a little bit faster and go, “Oh no, wait a minute. That’s not going to have good consequences.” And that’s exactly what sound therapy does. It speeds up that processing and then the behavior calms down. So teachers say to the parents, “Oh, what have you got your child on? He’s normally bouncing off the walls. He actually sat in class and I was able to finish a sentence. Whatever you’re doing, keep doing it.”

Stu

(33:01)

Wow.

Rafaele

(33:02)

So dramatic result in just a few weeks.

Stu

(33:05)

Excellent. Excellent. Any dos or don’ts on when using the device? And I’m thinking along the lines of energy drinks, things that may be stimulants that might interfere with what’s happening when you’re listening.

Rafaele

(33:22)

The only thing is don’t overdo it at first. Build up gradually, follow the routine in the workbook. So if you’ve got tinnitus and hypersensitivity to sound and dizziness, don’t use it for eight hours the first day. Follow the listing routine, ease in gradually. And don’t have a shower with it on because you’ll wreck the device.

Stu

(33:47)

You get a shock.

Rafaele

(33:47)

But there’s nothing you can’t do with it. You can use it with [inaudible 00:33:49] aid, you can use it with fitness training, you can use it with counseling. It’s great to combine it with other things because sometimes we have the most powerful therapeutic impact where we combine both the nutritional, biological input or chemical, even if you are using medication, combine that with a sensory stimulus or an intentional counseling motivational, those three different areas. And they’ve found in research that you have a exponentially better effect when you combine those different approaches. So because the sound therapy is a direct sensory neural stimulus, it’s a great thing to combine with so many other therapies such as fitness training, nutritional, medical, coaching, all sorts of things.

Stu

(34:38)

Yeah. Health is a foundation that has different pillars that are perhaps equally as important as the others as well. But I’m certainly interested in brain plasticity, sensory stimulation as we age, because I’m 50 now and I certainly don’t feel as sharp as I used to feel. And so I entertain brain training, using different apps and devices and puzzles and things like that. But what are your thoughts in using that device then to try and push or I guess increased brain plasticity as we age, as part of the healthy toolkit with all of the other things that we’ve spoken about, working on sleep and exercise, et cetera.

Rafaele

(35:32)

Well, I’m glad you brought that up because I was just thinking then we should talk about brain plasticity. And whether you’re young or old, brain plasticity is why our brain is so powerful because it can learn and improve. And one example of this is recovery from stroke. When someone’s had a stroke, part of the brain has been damaged, stroke or brain injury or all sorts of things. And there are some remarkable cases where people have used sound therapy and the stroke recovery’s been off the charts so quick, so complete, so dramatic. Just getting back movement and speech in a matter of a day or so. I could tell you some amazing stories. And brain damage improvement, even severely disabled people.

(36:21)

But yes, with aging and loss of memory and loss of that sharp responsiveness, very effective. People have said to me, “Well, I might be at a conference presenting the findings of a piece of research, and I find I lose the thread of what I’m trying to say. And since using sound therapy, that’s so much better. It’s not happening.” So that word recall and conceptual recall and everything, it really helps with that. And I know we’re told we need to train our brains. We need to do a crossword, play a musical instrument, learn a language. But who has time for all of that? We’re busy in our working lives or even in retirement, people are busy. So this is a great compliment. Those things are great to do. I’m not saying don’t do them, but choose the one you like and then use sound therapy as well. And it will augment it because the direct stimulation… You see, part of the reason it’s so effective is that we use classical music because classical music is such a complex, but intelligent and meaningful data set.

Stu

(37:22)

Yeah.

Rafaele

(37:23)

It has complex melody, complex harmony, and complex rhythm. And the brain can understand all that. Play classical music to anyone from any language background and after a while they start to understand it. They’ve become familiar with the courts and the harmonies and the patterns, and it starts to make sense and they start to really enjoy it. So that’s because it’s interacting with many different brain centers. There are some centers in the brain that deal with harmony, some that deal with melody, some that deal with rhythm. And it’s getting them all to work together according to this complex structure. So it’s actually building connections between all those different brain centers and keeping them active and engaged. But while a normal piece of classical music will do some of that, it’s because of the filtering in the sound therapy and because it’s waking up the ear as it’s getting to the brain that all of that is working.

(38:15)

And so that’s why we see such remarkable recovery from seeing things like stroke and also, people with autism where their sensory processing isn’t happening in the way it is for other people. And the integration of the different sensory information is, as I mentioned, six or eight different sensors. And we have to bring all of that together in the brain and make sense of it in order to function and for the world to make sense.

(38:40)

And a lot of that integration happens in the cerebellum, that part of the brain back near the brainstem, which used to be thought of as mainly for movement and coordination. But then they realized all of the sensory information comes in there and that’s kind of like the mail sorting center for the brain. So it all gets sorted out and we make sense of the world and we can coordinate and we can have judgment, and we can have memory.

(39:06)

So yes, brain plasticity is a miracle of the brain that we have that it can change, it can be enhanced. But how do we do that? We all know we have brain plasticity, but how do we augment it? How do we get it to work better? Well, sound therapy’s a pretty easy and very effective way of doing that and helping to prevent the degeneration that we all-

Stu

(39:28)

Are exposed to. Absolutely right. Yeah, it’s not appealing. I’m certainly looking at where we’re going in terms of the nation. And timing, have you found that there are more optimal times during the day, for instance, when you first wake up and feeling fresh versus when you are tired and relaxed and ready for bed?

Rafaele

(39:55)

Well, we really recommend that people choose what suits them. There are some people who get up in the morning and put on their clothes and their sound therapy, and then at night they take it off when they go to bed. There are other people who keep the sound therapy under the pillow, they put it on, when they go to bed at night and sleep with it. Some people find particular albums are better for calming them when they’re wanting to rest, or others are better for activating them. We actually do have different levels, we have advanced levels.

(40:24)

So what I come back to always, Stuart, is the most important thing is that you use it because if you leave it in the case, it won’t work. And if it suits you to listen after lunch, when you sit down and read your book and have an afternoon rest, do it then. But if it suits you to just listen in the car when you’re driving to and from work, do it then. Or if you only can find time for it at night, it doesn’t matter. And you don’t have to do your three hours in one block. You can do an hour here, an hour there. It doesn’t matter. Just so long as you use it. We’re very flexible.

Stu

(40:57)

Okay. And what would be the minimum effective dose in terms of, “I’m very busy today, I don’t even think I’m going to hit three hours, but I’ve got 15 minutes here,” would that be effective?

Rafaele

(41:08)

You don’t need 15 minutes. You have it on while you’re doing the other things. What are you busy doing? If it’s not tennis or sex, you can do something-

Stu

(41:15)

Swimming. Swimming.

Rafaele

(41:16)

Oh, right. You swim for eight hours a day, then use it at night.

Stu

(41:20)

Yeah. Okay.

Rafaele

(41:24)

Anything else, you’d have the volume low and you can hear. You can watch TV with it on, you can have a conversation. You can talk on the phone, seriously. It doesn’t interfere.

Stu

(41:34)

Well, look, you’ve sold me. And I think you’ve probably sold a lot of people because I’m so intrigued by tech that can be beneficial in biohacking, I guess they call it, in just different ways. And especially when we’re talking about brain plasticity and attention, because all of those things have been hijacked by modern technology that were supposed to make our lives easier, but I think it’s just dumbing us down. Yeah, very interested in that. Absolutely.

(42:04)

So where would we go if our listeners, if myself, so I’m super interested and I want to find out more, what do we do and how can we get access to this technology?

Stu

(42:19)

Hey guys, Stu here with a quick update. Since recording this conversation, the sound therapy team have provided an updated website link just for the listeners of this podcast. It features a free ebook valued at 24.95, which can be found at mysoundtherapy.com/podcast. That’s mysoundtherapy.com/podcast. Now, back to the conversation.

Rafaele

(42:50)

… Consultants in all different disciplines who use it. And so if they’re a practitioners who are wanting to take it on, I invite them to contact me personally and have a chat about that. We have a sound therapy synergy brand, and that’s a great option for people to be able to build it in and use it in complement of other therapies that they’re using.

Stu

(43:10)

Wow, fantastic. Well, look, we’re almost coming up on time. I’m intrigued to hear what’s next for you? You sound like you’re very busy and you mentioned speaking as well in some shape or form. What have you got planned for the next 12 months?

Rafaele

(43:25)

Well, yes, I do, do a lot of speaking around Sydney area, and I’ll be doing that again next year. Working more also with the Synergy program, which is our practitioner supportive program for finding more practitioners to work with their programs and reaching out to the more podcasts worldwide. Also we’re very interested in benefits it’s had for people recovering from Covid and long Covid. We are doing a survey at the moment with our listeners to learn about the ways that Sound Therapy is helping with recovery from long Covid, and seeing some remarkable results for fatigue, anxiety and brain fog

Stu

(44:00)

Yes.

Rafaele

(44:00)

And we are doing a study at the moment, survey rather with our listeners, [inaudible 00:44:07] the results of that. And we’ll want to further that and keep going and have more information.

Stu

(44:07)

Fantastic.

Rafaele

(44:13)

With some of these newer [inaudible 00:44:14].

Stu

(44:16)

Wonderful. Well, Rafaele, I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and I’m very, very intrigued to learn more about the therapy and the tech that goes with it and the results that we’ve spoken about today, because it seems like a no-brainer. Everybody wants to be the best version of themselves, and if you can become even better by turning a dial here and tweaking another dial over here, then it’s a win for me. So thank you so much. I’ll put all of the information that you’ve spoken about in the show notes today, in terms of links and any external stuff as well. But for me, much appreciated, really interested and intrigued and eager to hear what now [inaudible 00:44:59]. So thank you.

Rafaele

(45:01)

Thank you so much, Stuart. It’s been a real pleasure talking with you, and I really love what you’re doing [inaudible 00:45:05]. Thank you.

Stu

(45:07)

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Rafaele

(45:18)

Okay.